Memeorandum


Powered by TypePad

« We Get Pensive On Pensions | Main | Noam Scheiber On AIG - Almost Original, But Not »

March 31, 2009

Comments

J

Brooks better be careful...the one will call him on the carpet again.

Lord Whorfin

Stop the madness!

Rick Ballard

Interesting. Is the premise that Bill Gross has a higher duty than that of fiduciary to his clients sustainable? I've been a client (customer) of PIMCO in the past and I'm a customer of other funds now. The moment in which I notice any move by an outfit to which I have entrusted the care and nurture of my capital which can be construed as a response to a duty higher than maintaining its health and growth is the moment in which I remove the capital to a more secure environment.

Are we going to be hearing that it's our duty to purchase a Widowmaker or a new Dem DirtNap roadster next? I hope not. I'm joining the Kill the Zombies movement and such advice would be rather unsettling.

Pofarmer

I wonder.

Just how long is the engineering and design phase on a new platform? Production rampup?

None of these timelines are going to be met. That was obvious from the very first intercession last fall.

jimmyk

Is the premise that Bill Gross has a higher duty than that of fiduciary to his clients sustainable?

No, I read it as saying that the regulators were fools for setting up a situation in which this could happen. Gross played a game of chicken with them and won big. That free rider problem is standard b-school material.

Just like none of the institutions ripping off taxpayers are doing anything wrong--their obligation is to the shareholders. It's the government's job to protect the taxpayers, and it is failing miserably.

SWarren

WSJ article on 0’s “car team”.
SOP for Obama -change for the sake of change- no matter if its constitutional.

”The auto team prepared briefs for Mr. Obama on his options, as well as viability reports on both companies. The car team wanted an executive who could accelerate the changes it desired. Mr. Wagoner didn't have any support within the group. "This is Obama, and symbols of change are important," said one person familiar with the situation.”

And Wagoner is not alone, Zero also wants the whole Board of Directors gone:

“Mr. Wagoner told GM's board Friday evening that he was asked to step down and informed directors the administration wanted a majority of them to resign, according to two GM officials. Several volunteered to quit over the weekend. Other GM officials speculated that they would also be asked to resign.”

And does the One get to appoint the new Board members?

LUN

Fresh Air

Po-

The new "green" Buick Baby-Diaper Burner will be ready midway through Zero's third term. The color black will be outlawed, natch.

Steve C.

I'm making a bold assumption about who holds the GM debt. The assumption: a substantial portion is held by the big banks like Citi, a group which is financially impaired to say the least. No doubt there are other groups like Pimco etc and also probably foreigners and sovereign wealth funds.

To date, one of the issues, at least according to the reportage, is the lack of interest by the senior debt holders to take a haircut. Considering that these institutions may not have marked their GM debt to market, or done so aggressively, more write downs are in the offing.

So, regardless of what is done, debt for equity or haircuts for senior debt holders, I just don't see a good outcome.

My greatest concern is we could wind up paying for this disaster several times. First, by the billions we've already donated (and the billions to come) in the "rescue". Second by the write downs that will be done by the lenders and third by the requirement to inject even more capital into those same institutions as the value of their assets are marked to market.

And I would not put it past the administration to unburden the labor costs by assuming at minimum the pensions, not to mention the retiree health care.

That would be change the UAW can believe in.


Thomas Collins

Can someone explain to me why Steven Rattner's hocus pocus will roil the markets less than a Chapter 11, which is supervised by bankruptcy judges who deal with unwinding and restructuring messy situations all the time?

Fresh Air

Rick--

The first day in Corporate Finance class we learned that you never partially call a bond issue. Now we see why.

I guess Gross was awake in business school, which is more than we can say for the geniuses in the administration.

Pagar

It's the government's job to protect the taxpayers,
Rush Limbaugh has already explained why this Administration is not doing that.


Monday, March 30, 2009
Rush Limbaugh: "Obama Believes People Who Have Wealth Stole It"

Of course, obtaining wealth from book royalties that may have been written by someone else is apparently acceptable.

narciso

Well it's good to know that TM reads Brooks so we don't have to, but even that small dose causes minor damage. Brooks is proceeding from a flawed assumption (I know that's crazy, but stay with me here) that Obama's braintrust, knows anything about how to fix an auto company. Hint forcing them to cancel the color black, isn't going to help. Having Holdrem, or whatever that Ctluthu worshiping Ehrlich protege, as your
science advisor, isn't helping things along. Rick your idea about Zombie Motors
and Dave Burge's Pelosi Motors seems closer to reality. What's the role of Cerberus, i all of this, the company, not the three headed dog from hell. BTW, you know who said this auto bailout wasn't going to work, hint Dave Brooks compared her to 'a cancer on the GOP.

Rick Ballard

"It's the government's job to protect the taxpayers, and it is failing miserably."

The government's job, according to the dirty socialist wing of the Democrat Party, is to accrete power and hand the bill to the taxpayers. Given that the dirty socialists will have the means of accretion until they are turned out of office, what is the most effective method of ensuring their failure?

I'm leaning towards Boris' position that economic pain may be the most viable means of educating the Muddle regarding the inadvisability of associating with dirty socialists. The business press is already downplaying increasing unemployment - the "conserve or create" mantra concerning jobs is disappearing from the journobabble.

Given that taxpayers (and government agencies) are the only consumers capable of purchasing Widowmakers and DirtNaps, a firm decision not to do so on the basis that it is contrary to self interest may be the most productive means of keeping the dirty socialist stupidity front and center going forward.

Telobama recognizes that consumers require assurance regarding warranty - that why he is offering the Dirty Socialist Taillight Guarantee (as long as the taillight is visible from the dealer's lot, the warranty is in force).

Fresh Air

Well, I guess since I'm one of the knuckle-draggers who said loudly and often that Zero was a Marxist and would be a disaster, I'm going to make another prediction: All of the power-accreting moves will have massive unintended consequences that will wreck the Mediacrat party for at least a decade. The only question I see right now is when the carnage will fully develop. The Media now spins opinion polls and runs interference for the most leftwing, feckless and pitiful administration ever seen in this country, but when the Boy Prince is marching down Pennsylvania Avenue in his birthday suit and asking his sycophants how they like his new Armani, the jig is up.

Jane

DO retirement benefits survive bankruptcy?

If GM went into bankruptcy would Wagoner still get his $20m?

RichatUF

I was completely oblivious to the free-rider problem between Pimco and GMAC Finance. Learn something new everyday.

Fresh Air-

All of the power-accreting moves will have massive unintended consequences that will wreck the Mediacrat party for at least a decade.

I was thinking the same thing. Obama is consolidating his campaign organization and the DNC in DC and the problem with dependency is that if the top goes down he has the habit of taking everyone else with him. An interesting problem.

Old Lurker

"DO retirement benefits survive bankruptcy?"

IIRC, some do, some don't. They are simply one class of creditor but they have a high rank on the totem pole, putting them ahead of some other classes.

Nick

I can't say that I would buy a car from him. The only domestic car I would consider would be a Ford. They should be rewarded by the consumer for not taking the bailout money.

www.notoriouslyconservative.com

Fresh Air

Jane--

The UAL pension plan was chucked out bankruptcy by the court. The main reason the UAW wants a bailout is to stop what happened to UAL from happening to GM. I think the irony is that Wagoner will probably get his severance pacakge, but a couple of years from now when GM ultimately does file BK, the worker pensions will be at serious risk. The Law of Unintended Consequences.

RichatUF

Steve C.-

Another place to look would the CDO's the banks decided to write. It'd be pretty simple to take a book of GM bonds and write them down, however it would be a bit more difficult if they are entangled in a CDO with say 20 other corporate issues. And funny that, Zombiegroup was one of the largest underwriters of CDOs up until last year and they peddled them to insurance and pension funds all across the country (and world).

(Don't know if this was your point so sorry if I'm just repeating it).

Bill in AZ

Don't worry, Zero is out to get Ford too. They aren't playing along, so it will be vindictive. Ford will find it increasingly difficult to compete with government subsidized OMobile, and will eventually have to come up with their own 1/4 ton F1.50 EnviroPickup Truck to compete with WidoMakers and Dem DirtNaps.

MayBee

One thing O said yesterday was that we need a US automaker, and the cars need to be made in the Midwest. That probably sounds good to the Midwest, but I wonder about the rest of the states.

clarice

Soros, Obama's money man, was just hit with the largest fine by the Hungarians for illegally manipulating their markets:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/03/record_fine_for_soros_illegal.html>Billionaire Whack Job Caught Again

Tom Maguire

Interesting. Is the premise that Bill Gross has a higher duty than that of fiduciary to his clients sustainable?

Great question - if PIMCO manages any public money or buys debt in TARP banks, isn't it beholden to the Hard Working American Taxpayer?

I did not mean to disparage free riding, by the way (Geez, its worked for Europe and Japan on defense for fifty years.) In fact, the securities offered in the GMAC exchange were not registered and not eligible to be held by small fry US investors, so there was a small natural pool of free riders lurking out there anyway. Bill Gross just decided to join in.

Second by the write downs that will be done by the lenders and third by the requirement to inject even more capital into those same institutions as the value of their assets are marked to market.

My understanding is that bank *loans* can avoid mark to market of the payments are current.

However, securities held by a bank (such as GM bonds) would be subject to mark to market. As to pricing, the GM stuff is transparent like glass compared to the mysterious multi-tranche asset-backed securities.

Neo
But now, in a little-noticed move, the House Financial Services Committee, led by chairman Barney Frank, has approved a measure that would, in some key ways, go beyond the most draconian features of the original AIG bill. The new legislation, the "Pay for Performance Act of 2009," would impose government controls on the pay of all employees -- not just top executives -- of companies that have received a capital investment from the U.S. government. It would, like the tax measure, be retroactive, changing the terms of compensation agreements already in place. And it would give Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner extraordinary power to determine the pay of thousands of employees of American companies.
This ought to make lots of friends in the UAW as "Turbo-Tax" Timmy sets their pay.
RichatUF

clarice-

Thats why the Obamajustice Department will stall the Lehman, AIG, and FM's investigations. Can't let it out that the Dems Sugardaddy might have given them a helping hand off the cliff. Though the folks at AIG FP might feel a bit more cooperative now that they have been tagged enemies of the state-London or Paris might have a more attentive ear.

bad

Neo, think of the votes he could buy by RAISING the salary of large groups of lower level workers while slashing upper level salaries.

richard mcenroe

A War He Can't Fight
Policies He Can't Pay For
An Economy He Can't Manage

Jane

Thanks Fresh Air, that's what I wanted to know.

FWDAJ promises to be a bloodbath today - you can listen to the livestream at noon if you want at the LUN

Pofarmer

All of the power-accreting moves will have massive unintended consequences that will wreck the Mediacrat party for at least a decade.

I was thinking the same thing. Obama is consolidating his campaign organization and the DNC in DC and the problem with dependency is that if the top goes down he has the habit of taking everyone else with him. An interesting problem.

It MIGHT play out that way. It also MIGHT play out that a large enough group become completely dependent on the govt that we can't get rid of them. Obviously, we're pretty close to that point now. Add in ACORN redistricting, and we could have a close to intractable problem. Some folks may need to be disenfranchised(did I say that?).

clarice

I have little hope for anything good out of the curiously named Justice Dept. , Rich.

As for Treausry..How great is it that the performance and pay of major US company executives would be set by a lying tax cheat under a provision drafted by a guy significantly responsible for the mess in the first place , a man whose career is marked by his lover running a brothel out of his basement?

richard mcenroe

Who Ordered Another Texan?">

Clarice -- Now honestly, I expexted more accuracy out of you:

underage lover....

PWT

For some reason, when I think of Joe Biden selling cars on TV, I am reminded of Cal Worthington.

Pofarmer

a man whose career is marked by his lover running a brothel out of his basement?

And you people say he doesn't have business experience.

Sheesh.


Chris

Steve,
Don't think mark to market is an issue with GM bonds. Everyone does it as it's pretty liquid in corporate debt. You just take a credit rating (AA, BBB-whatever) and add on the appropriate spread to treasuries. This will reveal the price so the corporate market is much more transparent than the CDS's responsible for so much misery.

Total liabilities for GM appear to be 177 billion right now. I'm assuming that includes the recent debt for equity swap which TM described. As for Gross "doubling" his money, iirc, everone who swapped their GM bonds for 60 cents on the dollar probably "doubled" their money in the sense they were trding at 30 cents prior.

MayBee
Neo, think of the votes he could buy by RAISING the salary of large groups of lower level workers while slashing upper level salaries.

Exactly, bad.
I noticed he said absolutely nothing about legacy costs at GM yesterday. At his online town meeting he was praising nurses (who are often unionized).
I think he will do to the medical world what he is doing to the business world, once he gets his hands on healthcare.
Is it Old Lurker or Fresh Air that listed the three types of workers in Obama's mind?

Only Harvard Law graduates really deserve the money they make, because they could rule the world if they wanted to.
But laborers work hard and produce 'real wealth', and Obama will get hem their fair share from the rest of the rich people.

Porchlight

Jane, best of luck with FWDAJ today. I hope to be able to listen live for the first hour.

Old Lurker

Good Kudlow on RCP. LUN

See the one line in the middle "It's almost like the Treasury does not want to give up its uber-regulator status" in the section where he talks about banks wanting to give TARP money back, but Geithner not wanting to accept it.

Gee. Nobody saw this coming back in the final days of the Bush administration did we. It's like a recurring mightmare when you know exactly what's going to happen next but cannot change it.

RichatUF

Maybee-

But laborers work hard and produce 'real wealth', and Obama will get hem their fair share from the rest of the rich people.

Time to thumb through Obama's "gospel" again to figure out the end game to this sulplus value he always mentions.

narciso

I think Joe Isuzu, then again Joe knew he was lying, hence the lightning bolts, why does everything go back twenty years, now that we have the G.Q. version of Dukakis
in the White House. I know it's much worse
than that, he's like a younger Henry Wallace

We have some flavor of what things will be like with pro terrorist Dawn Johnson at OLC,
a Solicitor General who's never tried a case, and our local example, of the US Attorney for the SDFl, in the Clinton administration where they replaced the sitting US Atty with Kendall Coffey, who had never been a prosecutor, so when a really tough drug case, where the defendants
had bribed the jury and witnesses were intimidated, fell apart, he cracked up in a way only Carl Hiassen could imagine; he bought Champagne with his credit card and struck a stripper with it.

Rick Ballard

"if PIMCO manages any public money or buys debt in TARP banks, isn't it beholden to the Hard Working American Taxpayer?"

Hmmm, you wouldn't be intimating that PIMCO's role as one of the larger asset managers selected to handle the MBS problem might involve some sort of conflict of interest would you, TM? Now I have to try and figure out which PIMCO fund comes out with the rosiest cheeks and brightest smile after the dust settles.

[i]I have little hope for anything good out of the curiously named Justice Dept. , Rich.[i]

Clarice,

I actually do have a little hope regarding the FBI and a few of the US Attorneys. Not much with DoJ in DC at all but the dirty socialists are so obviously dirty that the FBI has a chance to polish off some tarnish with the help of just a few clean US prosecutors. Have you considered that Holder and Telobama haven't fired any yet? Could be that finding replacements willing to work for lying, cheating thieves are more difficult to come by than one might expect.

This is, after all, the lowest rent, lowest class group ever to hit DC. Working for them isn't going to enhance anyone's resume.

fdcol63

Obama and the Dem leadership are indeed Marxists who want government ownership of the means of production and who want to extend centralized, authoritarian, government power over all.

It's happening right before our eyes.

This past election was a tipping point where the majority of Americans demonstrated that they believe Big Government is their savior from the "failure" and "excesses" of capitalism. The Obama administration's populist war against the productive class is proving successful, deepening the wedge between the producers and the non-producers in American society.

As the Democrats' demonization and persecution of the "filthy rich" expand, the economy will just get worse. Producers will lose incentive to pay higher taxes, and the non-producers will increase their dependency on Big Government.

Fractionalizing zero equals zero.

Old Lurker

"Fractionalizing zero equals zero."

OK fdcol, you get the bumpersticker this week. Rick got it last week for "Lemmings deserve a Lemming's end"

RichatUF

Used cars...slick sales men...buying a senate seat...blowing up a car up that is just too much...they made a movie about this before...

Used Cars

Porchlight

Old Lurker, "nightmare" is the word that's been running through my head this morning, too. Every day brings worse news.

fdcol63

What about:

"Lemmings deserve lemons"? LOL

Fresh Air

fdcol--

This past election was a tipping point where the majority of Americans demonstrated that they believe Big Government is their savior from the "failure" and "excesses" of capitalism.

This is an incorrect interpretation. This is what the Mediacrats want you to believe. The truth is that there was an international conspiracy among the media to ignore all of Zero's shortcomings and quite obvious Marxism and focus solely on imagery and showmanship. White women and minorities largely elected Zero on this basis, with no more thought than one might give to what movie to see on Saturday night. Nonetheless the administration, such as it is, now fraudulently claims a mandate to enact wide-scale mad socialist schemes.

One should not underrate the degree to which election fraud and black racism contributed to the election results. Such an outcome is unlikely to ever be seen again, simply because it will never be the "first" such election again.

I have real hope for the future, as conservative ideas are imperishable whereas the Mediacrats have no ideas and their coalition of thieves, scoundrels and bloodsuckers can never be permanent.

Having said that, the income tax problem becomes more acute the fewer the absolute number of taxpayers. Ultimately, I suppose, capital will go on strike as it did back in the Seventies. I'm not sure whether we have a cancer that can be treated with radiation or with something more radical, but clearly the body of this country is infected with a very serious disease.

Thomas Collins

Jane just asked why Obama didn't force the UAW head out. Dick said he didn't have an answer. For any JOmer who has forgotten how to live stream the show, click LUN to get to Father Preble's site. Go to the upper left hand corner of Father Preble's site and click the arrow, which becomes vertical horizontal bars. If there is no sound, go to the right of the stream bar and click it (the sound bar may be hidden at the right, so it may not be clear that it also has to be clicked).

Thomas Collins

Dick concedes that Obama "has not been eloquent." Dick wins my understatement of the month award.

Jane is expressing the view that the stimulus bill not only won't work, but also may prolong the crisis, and that Obama's main concern is to use the crisis to accomplish his goals. Dick's response is to dump on Wall Street. Dick doesn't seem to want to address Jane's points.

Captain Hate

This ought to make lots of friends in the UAW as "Turbo-Tax" Timmy sets their pay.

This is quickly driving a wedge between President DynOmite and gerbil-killer Kucinich, whose ties to the UAW are pretty strong. I don't know if Kucinich's deadbeat father worked for them (to coin a phrase) but during the perverted dwarf's reign of error as the mayor of Cleveland, his version of Beria was Sherwood "Bob" Weisman, a longtime UAW stooge. Diminutive Dennis was flooding the radio with soundbytes yesterday about how Bammers is more lenient on Wall Street and banks than he is on auto makers. Fissures everywhere.

Thomas Collins

Captain Hate, I lived in Cleveland during the Dennis era. I thought then that it would be tough to find someone less suited to run an entity. Well, here it is, 2009, and I have found him. Unfortunately, he occupies the Oval Office.

DebinNC

Patrick Ruffini sees an opportunity for Reps in BO's madness.

Re MayBee that BO wants cars to be made in Midwest... Will BO use plant closings as a political tool, retaining those whose reps support him and closing those that don't?

Caro

TC--Dick doesn't seem to want to address Jane's points.

I don't think Dick is capable of addressing Jane's points.

Captain Hate

TC, yeah the Kucinich years were a real nightmare; I never thought it would happen on a national level although, in both cases, the media were completely in the tank for them. To this day you'll find some tools at the soon-to-go-under Plain Dealer that think the dwarf was undermined by the banks and utilities. You really have to search hard to find witless fools like that.

Charlie (Colorado)

Just how long is the engineering and design phase on a new platform? Production rampup?

3 years for Toyota, 4-5 years for Saturn , something like 6 years in the unionized GM factories. Or so I've read.

BTW, anyone notice the correlation between brands on the ax list and brands built predominantly in non-UAW factories?

Fresh Air

Will BO use plant closings as a political tool, retaining those whose reps support him and closing those that don't?

Not sure we're there yet, but even if we were, you're basically talking about whether Michigan H-1 gets favored over Michigan H-3. I can't think of any failing auto plants outside of blue states, though there is some stuff in Tennessee.

Charlie (Colorado)

All of the power-accreting moves will have massive unintended consequences that will wreck the Mediacrat party for at least a decade.

I think you've got that nailed, Fresh. Obama is well on his way to an overreach that will make Clinton's first two years look, erm, conservative.

Charlie (Colorado)

And I would not put it past the administration to unburden the labor costs by assuming at minimum the pensions, not to mention the retiree health care.

You can pretty much plan on that -- that's what happens in bankruptcy as well.

DebinNC

Interactive map showing GM">http://www.gmdynamic.com/company/gmability/environment/plants/facility_db/">GM plant locations

bad

The Arlington, Texas plant makes trucks and SUVs, the stuff consumers are buying.

bad

I was wrong, according to Deb's link the Arlington plant makes Chevrolet Tahoe, Cadillac Escalade, GMC Yukon, Cadillac Escalade ESV, GMC Yukon XL, Chevrolet Suburban. No pick=ups.

Those vehicles were listed for 2006.

Porchlight

Gotta dash to a meeting, but Jane is doing great on FWDAJ. They are moving on to Obama at the G20 summit now.

bad
Under ousted chief executive Rick Wagoner, General Motors and its political action committee gave twice as much to Republicans as they did to Democrats.

Well, well, well....

LUN

DebinNC

GM and Ford to make car payments of those who lose their jobs. BO better get busy saving and creating those 4M jobs.

PDinDetroit

Clarice - great article today over at AT. I like the LUN better though.

DebinNC - Thanks for that link. It is interesting that the Renaissance Center (MI) shows N/A for the number of employees. I guess it is dropping too fast at the GM World Headquarters to keep up.

Po - GM can bring a new vehicle to market off an existing platform in as little as 16 months. New Platform, even Kim wouldn't know... The bureaucracy, standards, and "rule by committee" hamper GM greatly.

PDinDetroit

DebinNC - I just love that we are funding our own car warranties now, due to Obama's brave statements that the Government will cover it. What the @#$* were they thinking???

Car Warranty Costs are right up there with the Retirement/Medical Plan Costs.

This administration is out of its depth in a parking lot puddle.

Pofarmer

by assuming at minimum the pensions, not to mention the retiree health care.

You can pretty much plan on that -- that's what happens in bankruptcy as well.

The companies might shed them, but the Feds don't usually aquire them. I know in at least one bankruptcy here locally, the Pensions pretty much went out the door when the business went under.


bad

A car that never breaks down is now a right!!!

RichatUF

bad-

The Arlington, Texas plant...

Or as Team Zero calls it, The Devil's Workshop.

bad

HEH, Rich!! It doesn't get much worse than red states and SUVs, does it?

RichatUF

I thought that was the purpose of the PBGC, when a firm with legacy pension obligations goes through C11 or C7, the assets and obligations are transferred to the PBGC and the pensioners are given a pretty big haircut. I also thought that the UAW exercised control over the pensions so GM might not have as much latitude to wiggle out from under them.

Anyway, I'm not really sure. Would really like to book a 3 year, 10 month vacation to St. Jane's though.

PDinDetroit

A car that never breaks down is now a right!!!

Q: What kind of incentive causes one to make decisions stay stagnant?

A: Government Incentives!

A car that breaks down is one of the best incentives that causes buyers to jump at a sales offering.

clarice

Thanks,PD. I do, too, but then who doesn't love Scott Ott.

Jane

Thanks guys - I'm back - no bloodbath -

cathyf
I know in at least one bankruptcy here locally, the Pensions pretty much went out the door when the business went under.
I would guess that they weren't real pensions, but rather 401(K)'s that were invested in company stock.

There is actually a reason why retirement investments don't count as "savings" in that stupid calculation that gets us the "national savings rate" which is always zero or negative.

Pofarmer

I would guess that they weren't real pensions, but rather 401(K)'s that were invested in company stock.

No, it was an actual company funded Pension, and it all went down pretty much as Rich describes above. There is SOME left, but not much.

Rich, I think GM did do some negotiating where the UAW assumed control of the Pensions, but, I don't recall any specifics, and if it just applied to new pensions after a certain date or the whole kaboodle.

Gotta go to work.

cathyf
All of the power-accreting moves will have massive unintended consequences that will wreck the Mediacrat party for at least a decade.
I think that this is foolishly, pollyannishly, naive.

(Is it too early for a drink? Well, it's 5 o'clock somewhere!)

clarice

I do, too, cathyf.
Glad to see you survived, Jane.

fdcol63

Fresh Air,

I wish I shared your optimism, and I hope I'm wrong.

hit and run

Cathyf:
Is it too early for a drink? Well, it's 5 o'clock somewhere!

Wait until 5 o'clock for a drink? I think that this is foolishly, pollyannishly naive.

Pofarmer

The thing about Rednecks buying cars and trucks made by blue Union workers and the progs buying cars made by Rednecks in the South is just making my head hurt.

fdcol63

Po,

For real irony, throw in the fact that various components are made in factories in Mexico, Canada, China, Europe, Malaysia, etc., where the people tend to hate Americans and American consumerism.

LOL

Old Lurker

WAY too optimistic, FA. Think toothpaste and tubes.

Fresh Air

OL--

No, I understand. That's why I think strong medicine is required. The side-effects will be severe. I'm already nauseated and we haven't even started chemotherapy yet. But still, whether we have to amputate a limb or not, the Republic will be cleansed of this Marxist cancer. It's just a matter of whether it happens in the short-term or intermediate-term.

clarice

F.A. As far as I can see he's got the muddle befuddled and loving him.

Jane

The real problem starts when he gets the muddle dependent on him.

Fresh Air

The muddle will wake up one day and see what the sonofabitch is doing. It will take a while insofar as American Idol is currently about 27 rungs higher on the priority list than worrying about TARP II.

Also, conservatives are already awake, as are libertarians. Put 10 percent of the minority radicals to sleep in the next election and rouse another 5 percent of the muddle and you've got a majority again. Exactly how this happens, I'm not sure. But I'm working on it...

Pofarmer

The real problem starts when he gets the muddle dependent on him.

Jane just nailed that sucker to the wall.

bad

It will take a while insofar as American Idol is currently about 27 rungs higher on the priority list...

Hey, I have high hopes that young America's exposure to Anoop, on American Idol is going to help Bobby Jindal.

Use what ya got...

Elliott

Ridicule seems to get to him. I'm thinking a work of parodic songs and verses is in order: "Haiku d'état: a celebration of the first amendment."

MayBee

Ha, Elliott!

Old Lurker

FA, I know you do get it and you are correct about the strength of the medicine that is required. We're just skeptical that the muddle will be willing to swallow it, and we don't see a grownup around yet who can deliver it.

We really are reaping the crop of five decades of mal-education and value debasement, supplemented by uncontrolled immigration during the same period.

The demographics are quite depressing...not yet as far past the tipping point PUK has described in the UK or Western Europe, but well along a similar path.

bad

The real problem starts when he gets the muddle dependent on him.

Unfortunately, my muddle contacts only object to bailouts that don't benefit themselves directly. A stimulus check is good, AIG bonus is bad. A tax "refund" is good, home mortgage bailout is bad.

Old Lurker

The Muddle had best awaken soon. This link from Drudge reveals the appetite for control these guys have:

"But now, in a little-noticed move, the House Financial Services Committee, led by chairman Barney Frank, has approved a measure that would, in some key ways, go beyond the most draconian features of the original AIG bill. The new legislation, the "Pay for Performance Act of 2009," would impose government controls on the pay of all employees -- not just top executives -- of companies that have received a capital investment from the U.S. government. It would, like the tax measure, be retroactive, changing the terms of compensation agreements already in place. And it would give Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner extraordinary power to determine the pay of thousands of employees of American companies.

The purpose of the legislation is to "prohibit unreasonable and excessive compensation and compensation not based on performance standards," according to the bill's language. That includes regular pay, bonuses -- everything -- paid to employees of companies in whom the government has a capital stake, including those that have received funds through the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

The measure is not limited just to those firms that received the largest sums of money, or just to the top 25 or 50 executives of those companies. It applies to all employees of all companies involved, for as long as the government is invested. And it would not only apply going forward, but also retroactively to existing contracts and pay arrangements of institutions that have already received funds.

In addition, the bill gives Geithner the authority to decide what pay is "unreasonable" or "excessive." And it directs the Treasury Department to come up with a method to evaluate "the performance of the individual executive or employee to whom the payment relates."

The bill passed the Financial Services Committee last week, 38 to 22, on a nearly party-line vote. (All Democrats voted for it, and all Republicans, with the exception of Reps. Ed Royce of California and Walter Jones of North Carolina, voted against it.)"

Old Lurker

oops. Here's the link. LUN

fdcol63

Old Lurker,

"mal-education and value debasement" and "uncontrolled immigration"

LOL - you're too diplomatic. I'd just call it "liberal indoctrination" and "electoral sabotage".

Old Lurker

:-)

Edits accepted...

PDinDetroit

Very interesting reading - LUN

cathyf
...employees of companies in whom the government has a capital stake...
Does that include Barney's fanny buddy at Freddie Mac who was in charge of "new product development"? (For those of you needing a translation, "new product development" means coming up with new ways to con deadbeats into taking out mortgages that they can't afford, while simultaneously coming up with new methods to hide the resulting stinky stuff and sell it to unwitting investors.)
Old Lurker

Cathy, Barney's pal is covered by the title of the section "Pay for Performance"...

The comments to this entry are closed.

Traffic

Wilson/Plame