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April 12, 2009

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» Media/lefty reax to Captains rescue from Sister Toldjah
Its interesting but not altogether surprising to see how the mainstream media is reporting on the heroic rescue of Captain Richard Phillips from the clutches of pirates in the Indian Ocean over the weekend by Navy Seals. The way theyre ... [Read More]

» How, Exactly, Is This Obamas Victory? from Liberty Pundit
To hear the press talk about it, Obama himself killed the pirates and personally set the hostage/ ... [Read More]

Comments

PeterUK

Looks like Soylent will have to use polar bear skins instead of SEAL skins in his Hummer.

SEAL snipers indeed!

centralcal

Hooray, just got home to see that my early morning prayer (on the Sunday thread) was answered almost to a T!!!

Thanks be to God!

Danube of Thought

Bravo Zulu, as we say in Navy.

Jane

It certainly was Centralcal. You deserve full credit!

Fresh Air

Sea conditions deteriorating. Three shots, three heads disappear. Bravo Zulu, indeed.

bad

God bless snipers and their extraordinairy abilities. A good man returns to his family because of their skill.

rahab

We used to have a policy that we hung pirates from the yardarm. Seems to me that when we followed that policy, we had a lot fewer pirates.

A few cruise missiles would solve the problem. Our policy used to be you harbor a terrorist, you have become a legitimate target. When piracy becomes a losing game, we'll stop having pirates. Or they will all die. Either way.

Jane

The Mudville gazette says the leftover pirate is 16.

Think of the complications.

Drop him off and let him go.

JM Hanes

I win! I win! I was the only one who said they ought to attach a line to the lifeboat and start towing! All the rest of you guys must be idiots!

Bravo Zulu! I don't know what that means, but I'm betting it's high praise and that's good enough for me. Go Navy! Those guys are out there all the time, and it's nice to be able to give them a much deserved round of applause -- and gratitude.

clarice

Per PUK's link:
[quote]US Vice-Admiral William Gortney said: “The sniper’s position on the fantail of the Bainbridge observed one of the pirates in the pilot house with [another] two pirates with their head and shoulders exposed. One of the pirates had their AK47 levelled at the captain’s back.

“The on-scene commander thought that the captain was in imminent danger and then made that decision, and he had the authority to make that decision and he had seconds to make that decision,” Vice-Admiral Gortney said in a videoconference from the US Fifth Fleet headquarters in Bahrain.

Captain Phillips, who was tied up in the 18ft covered lifeboat, was picked up by a US Navy launch and transferred from the USS Bainbridge to the USS Boxer, where he underwent a routine medical examination.
[/quote]

No second jump in the water.

16 year old pirate..leave him there with a chip in his arm. Tell him if the GPS system finds him anywhere near the sea again it will explode.

clarice

You did say that,jmh. I do remember that.

bad

16 year old pirate, what to do, what to do...hmmm...bring to the USA and make him be Michelle's cellulite massager.

glasater

A former Seal was interviewed today on Fox and if I heard him correctly he was saying that sharp shooters can manage at one thousand meters? Can this be possible?

He also mentioned that there would be three sharp shooters per each pirate--just to make certain the guy was down and could not harm the Captain.

Amazing if that thousand meter stat is accurate.

JM Hanes

Jane:

What a quandary for the White House. Just picture it: Emanuel says Americans want him to be tried as an adult. Axelrod warns that the International Community won't like it. What to do? What to do?

clarice

Give hm a job with ACORN?

Jane

What to do?

Let's see charge him and try him as a child. Sentence him to doing well in an American school while on welfare. As if you had to ask.

ben

A book deal is probably awaiting him.....

bad

Is the 16 year old Steve or Barry?

clarice

I'm seeing do good foundations offering him help; nutcase women offering to marry/adopt him; Dr Phil analyzing him on POprah--Oh, please, kid, just run for it and spare us!!

JM Hanes

Place him in nice foster home, Jane -- in a state known for its hospitality.

bad

Isn't there a great school in DC called Friends or something like that?

Pirate SteveBarry could be happy there....

Extraneus

It was Obama's calm, unflappable, deliberative style that saved the day.

PeterUK

"16 year old pirate.."

What are you people thinking of ? This is a natural for Madonna? Have him bathed and sent to her tent.

clarice

PUK, right you are. I must have been mad not to think of it myself.

bad

lol

Jane

JMH,

That link didn't work, but if it is Massachusetts you are aiming at, I'm not pleased.

PeterUK

JMH,
Sorry you have to share with Do(SEAL sniper)T.

Extraneus

Anyone guess the snipers will be at the White House photo-shoot with the captain and his family? Or the on-scene commander who gave the order?

bad

Maybe the military will be cool to the lefties now...

Extraneus

Good point, bad. Kind of like flags now are.

PeterUK

"A former Seal was interviewed today on Fox and if I heard him correctly he was saying that sharp shooters can manage at one thousand meters? Can this be possible?"

On land yes,harder on a moving ship.There is some fearsome sniper rifles out there and extremely good snipers,600 yards and beyond. Basic infantrymen usually up to 300 yards.

JM Hanes

Jane:
I said a state known for its hospitality Jane! The link still works for me but maybe you can get there from here:
https://www.cnic.navy.mil/norfolksta/index.htm

PUK:
Do you think he'd go for a two way split where I get the glory and he gets all the martinis?

centralcal

JMH: Good call about towing the lifeboat out to deeper water. Guess some Navy bigs were checking in here for strategy. If, not, then they certainly should be.

I forgot in my first post above, to say the obvious...God bless the Navy Seals, God bless the U.S. armed forces in all branches. On them, our confidence and all of our freedoms often rests.

DebinNC

Seems odd the "negotiator" was only 16. Maybe pirates are trained to falsely claim to be teens if caught. And thank goodness the navy captain decided to interpret BO's orders as he saw fit. Too bad the CiC didn't trust the captain to do the right thing without encumbering him with determining when "imminent danger" had been reached.

Thomas Collins

Bravo for Captain Phillips and the SEALS. Whether or not Captain Phillips was in imminent danger, I'm glad the SEALS saw the opportunity and applied their sharpshooting skills.

I have a modest proposal for dealing with the 16 year old. Transport him to Cambridge, MA and suggest to Harvard Law School that HLS should hire him as a professor with full tenure to start the Center For the Study of Skull and Crossbones Law at HLS. I'm sure one of the multicultural or critical legal studies oriented profs at Harvard Law School or other Harvard school would be glad to share their living quarters with him.

PeterUK

JMHanes.
Well he is an officer and a gentleman.

centralcal

PeterUK, you never cease to amaze me with your swift and deadly accurate comebacks. DoT is, indeed, an officer and a gentleman!

And, I bet he picked the Martini's without a blink of his eye.

PeterUK

"JMH: Good call about towing the lifeboat out to deeper water. Guess some Navy bigs were checking in here for strategy. If, not, then they certainly should be."

Might be worth asking how the the line got to the lifeboat? Those frolicsome SEALs again.

PeterUK

"And, I bet he picked the Martini's without a blink of his eye."

I can't see a gentleman letting a lady do his drinking for him.

bad

Maybe the lefties will love the military now. Twould be a good thing....

DebinNC

TC's comment reminded me of a New York Times Magazine article in 2006 about the Taliban spokesman at the time of 9/11 being a new Yalie. The WSJ responded with the most outlandish bit (to me) from the article:
The Times reported that Yale "had another foreigner of Rahmatullah's caliber apply for special-student status." Richard Shaw, Yale's dean of undergraduate admissions, told the Times that "we lost him to Harvard," and "I didn't want that to happen again."

Porchlight

Just got home from an Easter party to the good news (made even sweeter by seeing it on JOM first). Hallelujah! Was going to break out the good Burgundy anyway but now I'll do it that much faster.

God bless Capt. Phillips, the United States Navy, and all others in support. A fine Easter it is indeed.

Thomas Collins

DebinNC, I had forgotten about Shaw's remark. That's the problem with trying to satirize the effete elite. No matter how outlandish the satire, the actual sayings and doings of the effete elite are even more outlandish!

ben

"Is the 16 year old Steve or Barry?"

Don't know, they might have both bought the farm. Pity, so recently assigned nice names.

PeterUK

"Maybe the lefties will love the military now. Twould be a good thing..."

Sorry!

"TEENAGE SAILOR DEATH SHOOTINGS".
"Three teenage refugees were mercilessly gunned down by US Navy as they sought to escape Somali hell hole. A fourth is critically injured and seeking asylum in America.
Fill in your own senator.

ben

Gateway Pundit is reporting about the non-reporting of Obama's brother being accused of rape.
Of course if this were GWB's brother or McCain's or any other Republican, certainly the MSM would have ignored it too, just another "distraction".

PD

What a quandary for the White House. Just picture it: Emanuel says Americans want him to be tried as an adult. Axelrod warns that the International Community won't like it. What to do? What to do?

Why is this a quandary? Our President declared himself a citizen of the world in Germany.

bad

ben, I saw a commenter somewhere who speculated that the UK refusal to allow entry to O's brother was the reason for the tacky treatment of Brown on his recent US visit.

PeterUK

"a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5144046/President-Obamas-half-brother-denied-entry-to-Britain.html">Obama brother Samson. At least one girl was only thirteen.

JM Hanes

centralcal:

It was really kind of a pig and acorn thing.

I really stand in awe of the people who are called on to make those split second decisions when lives are in the balance, and do so. In this case, it seems to me that the commander was also operating under almost impossible terms of engagement.

I'd have said Captain Phillips' life was in "imminent" danger the moment he set foot on the lifeboat. Apparently we've defined that term almost out of existence, if you have to wait till you actually see someone pointing a gun at the victim's head, and then just have to hope your guy can pull a trigger faster than he does.

Bill in AZ

[Might be worth asking how the the line got to the lifeboat? Those frolicsome SEALs again.]

...and why the boat was out of gas already.

But SEALs can't swim more than a hundred yards or so in the open ocean without a seeing eye dog, especially in the dark.

PeterUK

Sorry about the link.
Samson Obama

Shirley Strom

Such high hopes for so little brains. I wonder how many virgins these guys get when they get to where ever. I guess the 16 yr old must of been the ladie aboard means he is still alive. To bad we didn't have one more bullet.

daddy

This guy deserves schooling and punishment. So lets enroll him in Oprah's School in Africa where he's bound to get the sexual abuse he deserves from her staff, and it won't cost the US Taxpayer a nickel.

Great job Navy.

ben

"...the reason for the tacky treatment of Brown on his recent US visit."

And here I thought it was just incompetence and ignorance, we can now add pettiness and vindictiveness..

Jane

If our president is a citizen of the world, let someone else pay for the trial.

JMH your link says I don't have "clearance" so either you guys are goofing on me or my radio show has a wider reach than I thought.

JM Hanes

Any day you imply I'm a lady is a good day, PUK.

sbw

If you can believe it, the problem with sniper range, besides wind and gravity, is the rotation of the earth. The track of the bullet is different depending on the direction the bullet travels and it has to be factored in to the sight computation.

A thousand yards is within range of the top of the line sniper rifle. It may not be within range of the person pulling the trigger.

bad

Good one Daddy!!

JM Hanes

Jane:

Do you suppose I've been awarded honorary clearance? The other page was prettier, but if this Hospitality link doesn't work, you'll want to toss your cookies.

sbw

Cheytac M-200 - 2004 record for a sniper rifle: 2321 yards for their M-200 .408 caliber.

PeterUK

"A thousand yards is within range of the top of the line sniper rifle. It may not be within range of the person pulling the trigger."

But it will be to these guys,otherwise they wouldn't be issued with one to play with.
I've always wanted to shoot a Barratt. Childish I know.

Bill Woods

JM Hanes :"Bravo Zulu! I don't know what that means, but ..."

wiki: Bravo Zulu

clarice

As if Gordon Brown were personally checking the visas..huh..

Danube of Thought

"Bravo Zulu" is the phonetic alphabet version of the two-flag signal BZ, meaning "well done."

I saw the retired Captain on Fox. He's not a former SEAL; he was an aviator (excellent commentator, too, though I haven't seen him for a while). Concerning long-range sniping, as PUK points out there are snipers in the US and Canadian armed forces (and no doubt others) who are good out to a thousand yards, but of course that's on land. The movement of the ship and the lifeboat would complicate things, but at 25 or 30 meterrs those shots would not be difficult for anyone accustomed to rifle shooting, although the guys you would pick to do it are of course the snipers.

A friend graduated from the USMC sniper school, where the graduation test was hitting a torso-sized silhouette three times out of five at 1,000 yards. I've shot all my life, and hunted quite a bit, but that kind of shooting is beyond my comprehension. There have been a couple of videos making the rounds of some absolutely incredible shots in Afghanistan.

I am eager to find out how things progressed to the point where the pirates allowed themselves to be taken in tow. At that point, it seems to me, the outcome was pretty much determined.

Fairly soon after news of the rescue broke I heard someone clarify that reports of the captain jumping overboard were a reference to the event of a couple of days ago, not to a new one. But it seemed to take several more hours before the commentariat in general caught on to this.

sbw

Funny, PeterUK how the body changes what it will let you do. 35 years ago I was a helluva shot. That iron sight would comfortably come down on the target without any shaking at all. I could shoot 10s all day standing, sitting, or prone.

We started shooting at a target in the basement made of 1/4 inch steel angled to a rotating catch and into a can. Shot CB caps and .22LR. Imagine all that lead made me as stupid as I am today.

bad

Looks fun PUK.

bad

I'd like to be as stupid as you, sbw...

Danube of Thought

Go to YouTube and search "Canadian Sniper Making a Good Taliban," or simply LUN. (This is adult material.)

PeterUK

sbw,
You can still see the sight? In the days when the sight was still on the end of the barrel,I was fourteen and on a school trip to Spain,there was a fairground where the prize was a glass of sherry.Now anyone who lets a kid shoot a .22 pump action for booze is mad.
Never been so il.

Shirley Strom

REPLYING TO EXTRANEUS COMMENT: I TRULY BELIEVE THE NAVY SEALS HAVE FAR BETTER THINGS TO DO THEN GET THEIR PICTURES TAKEN AT THE WHITE HOUSE. BESIDES THEY HAVE OTHER MEN TO DO THAT, THEY ARE CALLED POLITICIANS

Porchlight

So I am confused. Why did we have to wait until the captain was in "imminent danger"? Why didn't the snipers just go for it the first good chance they got?

Jane

Because Bambi said so Porchlight. Sheesh!

bad

Porch, Porch, Porch!! Pirates are people too.

And we don't want to create more pirates do we?

PD

Why didn't the snipers just go for it the first good chance they got?

If it doesn't work out perfectly and pirates survive, that immediately places the Captain in much more danger than he was in a minute ago.

PD

Now that we've seen how this episode played out, just what was the role of the FBI again?

ben

I think someone finally told Obama the sight of 3 US warships being held off by 4 guys in a likeboat with rifles was ludicrous and the way out was to give the Captain authorization for the "imminent danger" BS, and he probably did take the first good chance he got after the order.

Disillusionist

The longest shot I've ever heard of was almost 1,500 yards by the near-legendary Carlos Hathcock in Vietnam. Done with a .50 caliber in single-shot mode. Of course, he had a line of guys walk directly pass where he'd bore-sited it, so it' almost cheating, but still nearly unbelievable.

Of course, that sort of thing would be impossible on the water.

I read an account years ago of a NYC detective investigating the case of a woman shot to death while driving over a bridge. Since there was almost a mile of water between the bridge and the nearest (perpendicular) land mass, his first conclusion was that it had to be a freak accident. Remarkably, he ultimately found the shooter and confirmed his hypothesis.

Porchlight

Well, PD, at first glance I would say "fair enough, that makes sense." However, the scenario you have described is the case 100% of the time in a hostage situation. So again, what is the reason to wait?

centralcal

Porchlight, I have come to the conclusion that things had gone on far too long, the situation was getting dicey, the Seals had arrived and the Epiphany of danger presented itself.

Best not to question these things too deeply.

Of course, I think the "imminent danger" epiphany could have come a lot sooner than it did, but be that as it may, today's outcome was the righteous and correct one.

ben

'And we don't want to create more pirates do we?"

I am afraid it's too late. All over the world pirates are offended by this attack and will soon be traveling to Somalia to join with their brothers to protect their way of life and their oceans against the occupying navies.

clarice

Leave it to The Nation or something to argue that the danger wasn't imminent enough.

Porchlight

I will add to my above comment: if you wait until the hostage is in imminent danger, you are in reactive mode and you allow the pirates to set the time of action. They may already be desperate at that point. If you look for the best possible chance of surprise and then go for it, YOU get to decide when to act. Isn't this generally considered to be an advantage?

I am channeling Jack Aubrey here...please forgive my ignorance.

clarice

Did you know there was an East African Seafarers Assistance Program? Reuters says the head of it claims,"This is a big wake-up to the pirates. It raises the stakes. Now they may be more violent, like the pirates of old."

PD

I am afraid it's too late. All over the world pirates are offended by this attack

Exactly right. After all, the left tells us that by fighting terrorists we actually make terrorism worse by helping them recruit more terrorists. Seems like the same principle should apply here, so I'll be interested to see what the left's reaction is.

clarice

Everytime anyone acts against thuggery there are voices yammering it will only make things worse.

I argue not acting definitely makes it worse. No thug or bully ever stopped doing what he was doing because it was successful in achieving his ends.

JM Hanes

DoT:
That was an astonishing video. The drop-down commentary was interesting too. I had no idea how large the sniper rounds are, and I didn't realize they went out in teams of three either. At that kind of range, though, I can see how you would need a spotter. That's something of an art in itself.

I used tag along on the occasional bird-watching hike with my ex, and there were some people who had a real talent for telling other people where to look for bird that had been sighted. They just had a knack for picking out and describing some salient feature that anyone would recognize. Other people could leave you clueless after multiple tries.

My own experience has been limited to shotguns, which are pretty forgiving, but I did get a chance to try a black powder rifle once, out west. It was hard to believe how far away the target was! The gun was an old one, but it was not exactly the "primitive" weapon I had thought it was.

JM Hanes

Many thanks for the explanation of Bravo Zulu.

PD: I believe the FBI sent a hostage negotiation team.

Charlie (Colorado)

I don't think ships have yardarms any more.

daddy

Thanks for that link DOT.

Educational.

PD

I believe the FBI sent a hostage negotiation team.

Yes, sent. But did they actually play any role in what went down?

PD

Another "lockout" datum: Now what I'm seeing is that as soon as I put the cursor in the "Post a comment" box and type something, the Post and Preview buttons go from disabled to enabled. And back to disabled if I backspace over what I typed.

Wasn't seeing this before.

Still don't see the "Remember personal info" checkbox. The info is being remembered, but it's probably being supplied by Safari because my justoneminute.com cookies have not been re-created since I deleted them.

JM Hanes

"I've always wanted to shoot a Barratt. Childish I know."

Fess up, PUK. I loved the guy saying "This is a .50 caliber round," but that's not where you really started out, is it?

clarice

Just the thought of shlepping that Barratt and ammo to some remote place wears me out.

sbw

bad: I'd like to be as stupid as you

... and I as beautiful as you!

JM Hanes

PG: "Yes, sent. But did they actually play any role in what went down?"

I don't know, but I do think it made sense to have that expertise on hand.

Porchlight

Leave it to The Nation or something to argue that the danger wasn't imminent enough.

Heh. Yeah, the "imminent threat" language did sort of shoot me back to 2003, too.

FD

Guess we don't need Yardarms,Got Snipers! GO NAVY!!!!

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