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April 30, 2009

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verner

Remember the Yugo...

Ranger

Well, triple car bombings in Iraq are now a sign of progress, so why can't bankruptcy be a sign of strength.

War is Peace!

Night is Day!

Rick Ballard

The Agnelli family is finding that partnering with Il Doofus is somewhat different than partnering with Il Duce.

clarice

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet...

Mickey

This is a disaster waiting to happen. The government involved in anything, picking winners and losers, owning car companies will never be successful. I can clearly see their future because there isn't much of one, it is possible due to endless government support of a zombie companies. I wouldn't buy one of these cars to save my life. All the government cares about is using our money to buy power.

DrJ

Chrysler CEO Robert Nardelli says he will step down after the company emerges from bankruptcy protection. Chrysler has signed a partnership deal with Fiat. Nardelli says the new company will be run by a nine-person board, with six picked by the government and three by Fiat. The board will pick a new CEO.


So Chrysler still will be a gov't run outfit. at least as long as it is alive.

Charlie (Colorado)

I need a transcript.

I need a drink.

DrJ

So typepad is still swallowing formatting selectively. Arghh.

Rick Ballard

Where does theDeadbeat Protection Act fit into Il Doofuss' admonitions on saving? I understand that it's part of his 3BR 2BA reparations program but the net effect is going to be a further reduction in the amount of credit offered. Isn't it going to make them a bit testy when they realize that the party is really over and all they got was a picture of an idiot on a unicorn?

Ranger

From the BBC story:

This included trying to persuade the firm's main lenders to accept $2bn in cash, in exchange for writing off all of Chrysler's $6.9bn secured debt.

While Chrysler's main banks, holding 70% of the debt, accepted this proposal, it was rejected by hedge funds that hold a sizeable proportion of its remaining debt. Hedge funds are private investment funds that typically attract rich private investors.

The White House official accused the hedge funds of a "failure to act in either their own economic interest or the national interest".

So now, in the view of the White House, carrying out your legal responsibility to protect your investors interests is an act of sedition.

clarice

Chrylser's non-TARP lenders revolting..Can they and will they sue for unlawful taking or any other action?

http://www.businessinsider.com/senior-chrysler-creditors-revolt-2009-4

matt

how does the government now subvert the bankruptcy judge? The fundamental issues with the auto industry are clear, and I would think the judge/referee would have the authority to void or renegotiate contracts and pensions.

Where does the UAW now stand as a creditor? Secured? Unsecured? To me, the BK would seem to be an opportunity to get things right after 60 years of mismanagement and union mischief.

But it would also seem to me that once again, Obama is overreaching his authority. What were the codicils in the loan agreements to Chrysler, and for that matter, the banks? Is the government the first secured party? Where do bondholders now stand?

The law is still the law, dammit, and we have to wake up to the fact that Obama is illegally usurping two of the primary economic pillars in the country and remaking them in his own image.

MayBee

Maybe there's something I don't get, but why is Chrysler partnering with Fiat more American than Hondas that are built in the US?

BJM

Obama and his Auto Czar apparently aren't aware that in 1984, after producing a series of lemons, FIAT abruptly pulled out of the US market. Stranding hundreds of thousands of US car owners without service, parts and more or less worthless cars.

There's good reason that FIAT is known by the acronym Fix It Again Tony.

The US auto industry is in the very best of hands.


RichatUF

Here are the prepared remarks. Don't know if the delivery was different or if there was a q&a afterwards.

DrJ

I don't see how, clarice. They were excluded from a deal that did not happen.

DrJ

why is Chrysler partnering with Fiat more American than Hondas that are built in the US?

Because Honda was too smart to deal with these idiots?

RichatUF

I'm reposting this from the other thread:

***Thanks for the BK link. I don't see how they can be re-structured and come out as an ongoing concern. This is going to collapse what few sales they were making. I'm also curious if the non-TARP fund managers are going to make an issue out of Chyrsler's TARP money and all TARP creditors. The powers that Treasury is aggregating to themselves via TARP (and the Administration through the Car Czar) haven't been tested in court, and I don't see how those issues can be cleaved off as the valuable parts of Chyrsler are bought up by the Treasury.

Seems like any auction the Treasury and Chrysler would hold would be riddled full of self-dealing and conflicts and the secured bondholders, outside of TARP and the UAW, would file an injuction to stop them. I'd also think that government's heavy hand would also start to spook Fiat or any other buyers that might be willing to buy the assets.***

It was an initial reaction to Ignatz's news that Chrysler and Treasury want to go through a Sec. 363. YMMV.

clarice

I think you're right,Dr J..though perhaps they can argue that govt intervention prevented them from better protecting their interests.I really haven't a handle on the details and don't care to--There's only so much my peabrain can master.

bad

Does Obama get to count all Chrysler positions as jobs "saved or created"?

If so, this ups his numbers quite a bit.


Rick Ballard

"Maybe there's something I don't get, but why is Chrysler partnering with Fiat more American than Hondas that are built in the US?"

MayBee,

It's a fascist thing. Non-fascists are going to have a hard time understanding. About all that we can do is decide not to have any dealings with the fascist bootlickers teaming up with the Commie in Chief. TurboZero's Dance of the Zombies can't continue if we Just Say No.

Old Lurker

"...but the net effect is going to be a further reduction in the amount of credit offered."

Ah yes, but not for me or thee. Credit will be removed from Obama's first line voters, though, along with access to subprime mortgages. Cry me a river...

Unless of course he has put his ACORN thugs into the CC divisions at his new banks.

Ranger

The Corner has excerpted the key parts of the statement that Clarice posted the link to:

What created this much-publicized impasse? Under long recognized legal and business principles, junior creditors are ordinarily not entitled to anything until senior secured creditors like our investors are repaid in full. Nevertheless, to facilitate Chrysler’s rehabilitation, we offered to take a 40% haircut even though some groups lower down in the legal priority chain in Chrysler debt were being given recoveries of up to 50% or more and being allowed to take out billions of dollars. [...]

Our offer has been flatly rejected or ignored. The fact is, in this process and in its earnest effort to ensure the survival of Chrysler and the well being of the company’s employees, the government has risked overturning the rule of law and practices that have governed our world-leading bankruptcy code for decades.

Rule of law, what a quaint notion. Maybe Obama should try it some time.

Rick Ballard

"Ah yes, but not for me or thee."

OL,

No. Not at all. The Capitalist Greyhounds are the orchestra for TurboZero's Dance of the Zombies. All we have to do to finish off these clowns is lay down our instruments.

I realize that his followers are too damn dumb don't quite understand how tight the choke chain is going to get on their debt serf collar. How long will it be before they start snarling and biting?

MayBee

Gibbs is saying Fiat can help Chrysler make cars Americans want to buy.
The proof of that obviously is that so many Americans currently buy Fiats.

maryrose

Rick:
I love the expression TurboZero. It so accurately describes our enchanted president. Why even last night he naively thought the bond markets would bow down to the One's request that they accept 29 cents on the dollar. Accept 2.5 billion instead of 6 billion. Obama continues to show how clueless he is about the economy and the bond markets. I bet Romney is incredulous over our Doofus in chief.

hit and run

Main Entry: fi·at
Pronunciation: \ˈfē-ət, -ˌat, -ˌät; ˈfī-ət, -ˌat\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, let it be done, 3d singular present subjunctive of fieri to become, be done — more at be
Date: circa 1631
1 : a command or act of will that creates something without or as if without further effort
2 : an authoritative determination : dictate <a fiat of conscience>
3 : an authoritative or arbitrary order : decree <government by fiat>

jimmyk

This was the key quote from Obambi's statement:

a group of investment firms and hedge funds decided to hold out for the prospect of an unjustified taxpayer-funded bailout. They were hoping that everybody else would make sacrifices, and they would have to make none. Some demanded twice the return that other lenders were getting. I don't stand with them. I stand with Chrysler's employees and their families and communities. I stand with Chrysler's management, its dealers, and its suppliers. I stand with the millions of Americans who own and want to buy Chrysler cars. I don't stand with those who held out when everybody else is making sacrifices. And that's why I'm supporting Chrysler's plans to use our bankruptcy laws to clear away its remaining obligations so the company can get back on its feet and onto a path of success.

So in other words, the senior claimants were not willing to accept less than what they were legally entitled to according to the terms of their debt contracts. These were rights that they effectively paid for when they provided the financing. But to Obama they are being uncooperative by not turning it over to him and the UAW. He seems to have no clue about the rule of law and the sanctity of contracts.

Ignatz

So, my unoffical poll question is;
who thinks this will turn out better than the Daimler Chrysler deal?

Daimler bought a healthy, innovative Chrysler for about $40B in 98 and sold it to Cerberus a few years later for about $8B, a debt loaded, talentless shell of it's fomer self.
Now an Italian company with no presence in the US and a very bad reputation (still valid or not) is buying a 20% stake in that hollowed out company alongside a 55% stake owned by the UAW's health care trust and is getting a board appointed by Parnelli Obama in the middle of an automaking depression.
What could go wrong?

clarice

Well, when you put it that way, Ignatz...........

clarice

*sigh* It's not easy to put one over on MayBee either...

Dave

verner :

Remember the Yugo...
Or, remember the Lada.

bad

Politico:

Arlen Specter’s party switch is creating chaos with staff careers, paychecks and the personal loyalties of people who signed on to work for a senior Republican but now find themselves aligned with the party of Barack Obama.

Senate GOP aides say that some Specter staffers began calling around about new jobs within minutes of his news breaking Tuesday.
==========================================
What a guy. I wonder if he thought about his staff before he flipped?

Ignatz

-Well, when you put it that way, Ignatz...........-

Yeah, clarice. I was practicing up on how to pose questions for Newsweek and CBS polls.

clarice

Yeah, when I blogged the Specter announcement I asked what had he been promised and what about his staff? Neato, huh? I hope he gets squeezed out of his long desired judiciary chairmanship and is as big a pain in the butt to the Dems as he was to the Reps.

OTOH the DC Reps are stupider than dirt. Yesterday the NRSC website is running a big story begging for money to defeat Specter as its co-chair Orrin Hatch is saying to reporters there's no way they can beat him.

The entire Senate is made up it seems of senile princelings--all ego, no brains or principles.

larwyn

Clarice,
Always trying to catch up with you guys, so as you are here, and have been promoting the JOMers thoughts & info on the NYC FRIGHT FLIGHT, as I don't think this should slide down memory hole.

It is something even the AMERICAN IDOL COUCH POTATOES will be able to understand.

Just got this link in email:

http://spectator.org/archives/2009/04/29/flyover-launcher

Flyover Launcher
The Prowler, Spectator.org

emailer noted:

I've suspected from the beginning that this excursion was a pleasure cruise for some of Obama's top contributors (and possibly some leftist activists as well - like the "CEOs" of ACORN et al.

Too much MED HEAD to attempt to TAG the above, but do go read the post.

PS - to Hanes, loved the ODS = 'odious", sent to many last night and included in collection just sent out.

matt

I second that remark, Clarice. It seems the Republican leadership cannot even think clearly any more nor chart a simple path forward. Instead, they are buying into the Democratic party memes that it's all the fault of out of touch religious nut jobs when in fact the country really hasn't changed that much. people are still looking for wise, responsible, grown ups and leaders. Instead we have a sclerotic, egotistical ruling class out of touch with the reality of most people's daily lives.

clarice

Thanks, Larwyn,I've been reading and posting on that very thread.I think the joyride idea is not right though..I do think it was something--film or shots of some sort that promote The Won.

Why not just go back to federalism , a strong national defense and sound economic policies--cause if you don't all you have are socially conservative views which are not of great interest to enough people to make a majority.

lurking

The Fiat 124, and the Lada and Seat which were copies, was a good car. And the roadster was beautiful.

lurking

Fiat does have a bad name in Murica, but it's OK elsewhere. I'll bet they want Jeep.

Buford Gooch

Well, looks like it's time for all of us to buy Fords. And perhaps buy stock in ford Motor Company.

lurking

Nice pick-up, larwyn, on the British judge who ruled that Global Warming is a religion. I worship you.

cathyf
Main Entry: fi·at Pronunciation: \ˈfē-ət, -ˌat, -ˌät; ˈfī-ət, -ˌat\
When I was in college aeons ago (back in the day whe everyone read huge numbers of Greek tragedies and comedies in common core humanities courses), one of my very clever classmates in Italian class made up a trilingual joke with the punch line being deus in machina when God drives up in a Fiat...
lurking

Worse, clarice, Hatch is saying that Toomey can't win and the Pubs should run someone else. Someone ought to explain to that turkey that the Club for Growth are fiscal conservatives, not social ones.

narciso

Can't disagree with you, there Matt, there is so much that can be analyzed this carve of Chrysler, by the Treasury and UAW, with Fiat as the other major player. Im Daimler couldn't make it run, how does Fiat have a chance. Outside of Coburn, what their view on interrogations, on cap n trade, hell on anything really.

This new organization that want to 'rebrand'
the party, NCNA well what do they believe? Romney, Jindal, Jeb, Barbour, McCain, well Mitt's ego takes up two chairs, supposedly they want to get Sarah to join. But if they are going to throw out core principals what's the point of the exercise. Specter and Snowe and Collins have been wobbly on a whole set of issues, not strictly social.

lurking

Well, Buford, I reluctantly concur, having been a Mopar fan my entire life. I found it difficult to tolerate that scion who was in charge of Ford and running it into the ground, and I've gleefully chanted Fix Or Repair Daily and Found On Road Dead at the slightest opportunity, but I'm never going to trust a car built by a company operated by the UAW and Obama's fascist goons. Fuddedaboudit.

larwyn

Clarice,
Would be absolutely thrilled if we can get the goods on it being a movie, which is why I've sent the complete thread thru late last night to my whole list. Trying to get some of those good researchers to dig and to keep it alive.

Am I correct in that Bloomy wants to RUN AS REPUB again? IRRC, then you'd hope he'd look into the "film" end of it too.

Have encouraged using FOIA and hope some with contact with BIG HOLLYWOOD can get them on the case.

So want, if not WON himself, but that 'ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE ON THE PLANET" Michelle to be on that FRIGHT FLIGHT.

Really in trouble with health right now, so request that any new info/leads/or posts the JOMers come up with, that you'd pass to me via email. Having real trouble with eyes as on those allergy meds which may inhibit some of the tearing and burning, but wreck my focus with double vision, etc.

Fear that even if I could read at my normal speed and comprehension, would still not be able to keep up with the daily onslaught of OUTRAGES!!

Thinking that that is the exact strategy.

Alien

The Obama administration seems unaware that Fiat is such a weak brand internationally. Their market presence in Asia is almost zilch. People who want a good car will not have Fiat in mind. So what makes Obama think that Fiat will be a boon to Chrysler? Is someone getting very rich for brokering this tie-up? Naughty Bill Clinton at work?

hit and run

Praying for you larwyn!

clarice

larwyn--those allergy meds do not effect your ability to sniff out a good story.

Write the RNSC and give them hell if you agree Hatch' remark was idiotic. He should be forced oout as Vice chair.

GMax

The government may rue the day that they involved themselves so deeply in the Chrysler mess. It will be a tarbaby that they will not be able to remove themselves from and the Union will be everso accomodating to their new managers ( evil grin ).

This is just chapter two of the bonus contract story, where the government no longer sees a need to honor contracts, laws or longstanding precedents. They needed to give something back to the unions after all for all the support!

pagar

So what makes Obama think that Fiat will be a boon to Chrysler?

Could it be how some of the Italians think?

Klein: ‘Peace partner’ helped free terrorist who killed American. Leader of infamous Achille Lauro hijacking released yesterday from Italian prison
Shock admission: Italy made deal with terrorists

In an astonishing admission last summer, the former president of Italy confirmed his country provided Palestinian terror groups with sanctuary and the ability to establish internal bases in a secret pact in which the terrorists pledged not to target Italian interests.

matt

Tom;

How about a "core principles" thread? It seems the Republicans have either forgotten or misplaced theirs. Perhaps we can rethink them and come up with something better. It is time for us to stop relying on leaders who can't lead.

I may have to actually register as republican one of these days.

Danube of Thought

Nice to see Obama (and of course the BBC) make such short shrift of those fund managers' fiduciary duty to their investors. What the hell, they're mostly rich, right?

Fiat, as in "Fix It Again, Tony."

This is gonna be a beauty to watch.

Did anyobdy note that Ras has the GOP up 41-38 in the generic congressional ballot? What does it all mean?

Fresh Air

DoT--

It means we're going to clean their clocks in the House, but only pick up two or three seats in the Senate.

narciso

I've been one since 1994, Matt, and I have to say their performance has been substandard as of late. They held the line on the stimulus, but too many like(Cornyn, a Texan, and the head of the NRSC) voted for
Geithner the tax cheat and Sebilius (like Brownback)the epedimiologist. and they flubbed the Tedisco race, and they've doubled down against Toomey in favor of Ridge. Words fail, and yet Rasmussen has them ahead for the second time in the last three months. In the LUN, some info on this new umbrella
GOP I referenced before.

TCO

You bailout Republican RINO turdburglers set the stage for all this.

-------------------------------------

Statement from non-Tarp Chrysler lenders

Published: April 30 2009 16:47 | Last updated: April 30 2009 16:47

Statement From Non-Tarp Lenders To Chrysler, April 30, 2009

As of last night’s deadline, we were part of a group of approximately 20 relatively small organizations; we represent many of the country’s teachers unions, major pension and retirement plans and school endowments who have invested through us in senior secured loans to Chrysler. Combined, these loans total about $1 billion. None of us have taken a dime in TARP money.

As much as anyone, we want to see Chrysler emerge from its current situation as a viable American company, and we are committed to doing what we can to help. Indeed, we have made significant concessions toward this end – although we have been systematically precluded from engaging in direct discussions or negotiations with the government; instead, we have been forced to communicate through an obviously conflicted intermediary: a group of banks that have received billions of TARP funds.

What created this much-publicized impasse? Under long recognized legal and business principles, junior creditors are ordinarily not entitled to anything until senior secured creditors like our investors are repaid in full. Nevertheless, to facilitate Chrysler’s rehabilitation, we offered to take a 40% haircut even though some groups lower down in the legal priority chain in Chrysler debt were being given recoveries of up to 50% or more and being allowed to take out billions of dollars. In contrast, over at General Motors, senior secured lenders are being left unimpaired with 100% recoveries, while even GM’s unsecured bondholders are receiving a far better recovery than we are as Chrysler’s first lien secured lenders.

Our offer has been flatly rejected or ignored. The fact is, in this process and in its earnest effort to ensure the survival of Chrysler and the well being of the company’s employees, the government has risked overturning the rule of law and practices that have governed our world-leading bankruptcy code for decades.

We have a fiduciary responsibility to all those teachers, pensioners, retirees and others who have entrusted their money to us. We are legally bound to protect their interests. Much as we empathize with Chrysler’s other stakeholders, the capital is just not ours to contribute to their cause by accepting a deal that is outside the well established legal framework and cannot be rationalized as being commercially reasonable.

Bill in AZ

Drudge headline:
"Catastrophic Quarter Is Averted as Job Cuts Help Profits Exceed Estimates..."

I reckon lost jobs are some of those "green shoots of economic recovery".

DrJ

Old, old news, TCO. Get with the program. Meds help. Booze doesn't.

clarice

narciso, somone has to take over the NRSC--it's run by lamers.

Charlie (Colorado)

You bailout Republican RINO turdburglers set the stage for all this.

For forcing the Obama administration into an actual bankruptcy instead of continuing bailouts?

Damn.

narciso

It's a mystery, how did they get so lame, though, with a Texan in charge, although I don't know how truly in charge he is. They keep making elementary mistakes, that they really shouldn't be making. Letting the Dems take control of the absentee ballots in the Tedisco race,suppporting a candidate wh since '95 at least, has been going out of his way, to tick the party off so to speak. Maybe a Jeff Sessions would be the answer, Chambliss, Gregg, seems to have been charged up after the near miss with the Commerce department. Fred Barnes in the Journal, said that a Crist race in Florida is almost mandatory, to improve the odds, well you know my feelings on that,

clarice

I used to be a Democrat. I'm used to more professional political thieves.

TCO

Charlie...follow the ball, shithead. The government is going to guarantee warrents and pour in 8 billion. They are going to keep that entity going instead of liquidating it. You fucking RINOs sold the US down the river. You had a chance to fight and you didn't. Bunch of chicken little, chicken shits.

lurking

Hey, TCO, your bitterness is going to eat you alive sooner than it will cause any of us to regret stopping the panic in September. Your interpretation of the events since then is desperately warped by your bitterness. You need some healing, boy.

clarice

NPR is also reporting that Souter's retiring:
"NPR.org, April 30, 2009 · NPR has learned that Supreme Court Justice David Souter is planning to retire at the end of the current court term.

The vacancy will give President Obama his first chance to name a member of the high court and begin to shape its future direction.

At 69, Souter is nowhere near the oldest member of the court. In fact, he is in the younger half of the court's age range, with five justices older and just three younger. So far as anyone knows, he is in good health. But he has made clear to friends for some time that he wanted to leave Washington, a city he has never liked, and return to his native New Hampshire. Now, according to reliable sources, he has decided to take the plunge and has informed the White House of his decision. "

Say hi to Justice Tribe, the man who quite obviously saw to it that O graduated from HLS, a place where no one else seems to remember him being in a ny classes.

JM Hanes

Clarice:

And just when you're pretty sure things couldn't get any worse -- before the weekend! It would be nice to think that if Obama nominates Tribe, the press might actually consider contemplating the possibility of potentially getting off their duffs and looking into Obama's law school career.

clarice

Right--heh=

I have to head off early tomorrow for a wild weekend celebrating my mom's 90th birthday. I'm leaving my ivory handled cane and pistolas in your care,JMH. Keep the troops in line.

Ralph L

The government and UAW are largely responsible for dragging down the Big 3, and soon they'll own two of them. Coincidence?

Dave

lurking:

The Fiat 124, and the Lada and Seat which were copies, was a good car.
My friend's 128 did 0-60 in about 15 seconds most of the time. The rest of the time it depended on how fast the tow truck was.

anon

This is one of the greatest heists in the history of the world. Obama has given OUR taxpayer money essentially so HE could claim that he makes the final decision. On our behalf, where is our money going? It is going to make sure the UAW gets full pay and benefits from a bankrupt company. Any of you ever get that type of perk? I've been thrown at the door just about literally before. I've been told 2 weeks point blank to my face. Obama wants this company to re-emerge fast with NO DEBT. How? Simply by wiping away the current set of investors. You know the bondholders that have given their money so that the union could pay the bills.

IF the company REALLY was going out of business then it would be acceptable to see bondholders completely wiped out.

That's not what's happening. In fact, the exact opposite is happening. In fact, Obama's main goal is to get the company quickly back up and running as soon as possible.

Same factories (a couple less). Same employees (a little fewer). Same salaries and pensions and health care benefits.

And the UAW not only gets all of that (same jobs, same pay, same pensions) but Obama wants to give them ownership of the company too!

All he has to do is just push one judge.

If this happened in Russia-- the ruler takes a private company, wipes out the investors, and give the company to some else-- we would immediately understand. I think we are all frozen. Is this really happening.

This must be stopped if we are going to have rule of law. All rules are off if they just wipe out bondholders AND stockholders and open the company right back up and do it all over again giving it UAW.

TCO

Stop the panic. What a load of shit, you little faggots. You lack theory on your side. You lack facts. And Paulson broke the law. Yuou shitheads lack the balls to admit you were wrong. What a bunch of turdfuckers. Move to France. Better yet blow your brains out.

TCO

Leave my Republican party, jerks. Take the cowardly fat fuck faggots like Rover and Lott with you.

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