How Much Harder?

The LA Times picks up on an a widely-unremarked statement by Barack Obama at his press conference when he admitted that "it may be harder" to get information:

Reporting from Washington -- In a strikingly defensive explanation of his stance on Bush-era anti-terrorism tactics, President Obama on Wednesday acknowledged for the first time that the harsh interrogation techniques he has banned might have yielded useful information, but that he was nonetheless willing to rule them out on moral grounds.

...He conceded that "it may be harder" to get information, but what "makes us, I think, still a beacon to the world is that we are willing to hold true to our ideals, even when it's hard, not just when it's easy."

Transcript and video are here.

Phillip Zelikow argued that the US military-style interrogations in Iraq under the revised military guidelines provide a useful case study indicating that the talk therapy interrogation technique can be as effective as the CIA enhanced interrogation program.  Of course, the CIA claimed in their representations to the OLC that as of 2005, they had only used enhanced techniques on 28 of 94 high value prisoners, so presumably they also found value in conventional techniques.

Well.  Why does Obama want to make it harder for the CIA to do its job?  Eventually his advisory panel will report back on the CIA procedures and conclude that all of their enhanced techniques other than waterboarding were legal and ought to be added back to the CIA repertoire (Yes, the belly slap is back!).  But since Al Qaeda has now been informed in detail as to those techniques, well, good luck surprising them or anyone by acting tough.

Oh, well - releasing the OLC memos and (temporarily) banning the enhanced techniques provided a great feel-good moment for Obama and the left.

MORE:  Andy McCarthy won't participate in the next feel-good moment.

Comments

[Mickey]

The real casualty in all this is going to be the CIA itself. Their morale has to be in the tank after all this and the Gitmo closing. The President has made it clear that he will not have their back, and that will translate into the CIA not having our back. How will this make us safer going forward? There will likely be another attack coming our way, and that will be the end of this President as he will be crucified by the public.

[Mustang0302]

McCarthy and Krauthammer have nailed this today.

[Ann]

Andy McCarthy's letter will make you stand up and cheer. It is a must read.

Of course, so is Ann Coulter:
MUSLIMS: 'WE DO THAT ON FIRST DATES'
Here's a flavor:

Instead, we gave them comfy chairs, free lawyers, better food than is served in Afghani caves, prayer rugs, recreational activities and top-flight medical care -- including one terrorist who was released, whereupon he rejoined the jihad against America, after being fitted for an expensive artificial leg at Guantanamo, courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer.

Only three terrorists -- who could have been shot -- were waterboarded. This is not nearly as bad as "snowboarding," which is known to cause massive buttocks pain and results in approximately 10 deaths per year.

Normal human beings -- especially those who grew up with my older brother, Jimmy -- can't read the interrogation memos without laughing.

Hey, RUSH just said his listeners must of shut down the server for McCarthy's letter.
What are JOM bloggers...?

[Jane]

Andy McCarthy is spectacular. I'm almost willing to forgive him for his defense of Fitzgerald.

[Dave]

They'll use that beacon as a guide to navigate our hijacked planes.

[Porchlight]

what "makes us, I think, still a beacon to the world

We're "still" a beacon, he "thinks." Wow, thank goodness our kindly President is willing to bestow that unqualified praise on the country he leads.

[WestWright]

Ann, I chuckled when reading your comment on Andy McCarthy because I also had some ill filling towards him leftover from his defense of Fitzgerald as well as some of his failures in the SDNY Justice investigations pre 9/11...IMO.
Anyway the V. Plame game is what brought me to JOM and I am thankful for that!

[MTF]

In the usual rush of terrible news that every new day seems to bring, I missed one outrage that ties together Obama's ignorant treatment of detainees and l'affair Plame: Tigerhawk says the administration has outed the interrogators by name to al Qaeda.

Surely, all the sanctimony over the Plame-name outing was just a warm-up for how the press will howl over this one! Right?

[narciso]

Um, No, but you already knew that, Valerie Plame was Sydney Bristow without the
kickboxing and the change of clothes, any ways, here's Iowahawk with "HardFire" feauturing Janine Garofalo, and Air Force One

[Jack is Back!]

Do yourself a favor and if you haven't go read Andy's book: "Willful Blindness". My favorite phrase that sums up pre-911 and post-Bush era was "Imagine the liabilities!" spouted by some FBI or DoJ lawyer when discussing going after the blind Sheikh. We are back to square one without Jamie Gorelick but its just as bad. Now its really not a matter of when but how.

[Dark Eden]

I have a hard time feeling bad for the CIA. They practically declared war on Bush and the Republicans. Well you reap what you sow. That's harsh but so are all those intelligence leaks that got our men and women killed.

[Jane]

You have a point Dark Eden.

But I still feel badly for the rest of us.

[Topsecretk9]

Their morale has to be in the tank after all this and the Gitmo closing.

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time crying a river for the Agency that did nothing but leak (and sometimes just leak BS) in order to hurt a sitting President and by proxy the American people. They made their bed.

[Topsecretk9]

OH, what dark Eden said.

[Gabriel Hanna]

Gitmo hasn't been closed. Even when it finally is closed, if ever, there is still Bagram.

[centralcal]

I don't always agree with Andy McCarthy, but dang that was one hell of a good letter.

[centralcal]

Dark Eden, I agree. I hope the CIA reaps some of what it has sown, but I doubt it.

Nevertheless, The O has probably crippled himself intel wise.

[MTF]

Oh, what Jane said!

[Brian G.]

The real casualty in all this is going to be the CIA itself. Their morale has to be in the tank after all this and the Gitmo closing.

Poetic justice for all of the years that spent trying to undermine Bush.

[cathyf]

So the other night while the sane people were watching Fox, or straightening out their socks drawers, etc., the president said that waterboarding is torture. When is a "journalist" going to ask him when the prosecutions start for SERE school instructors? If it's torture, then they are criminals. As is everyone up their chain of command. For the last 4-5 decades.

[sylvia]

Well my feelings on torture is that, like the death penalty, it is to be used sparingly. On one hand, we don't want the CIA to go around torturing every person they want to, without us ever knowing about it. On the other, we want to be able to save lives. And also considering the death penalty is legal, is seems funny that we are allowed to kill people when it is warranted, but we are not allowed to pour water down their throats.

So I think the compromise is that there has to be some sort of judical proceeding. There has to be some good reason why we need to torture someone. Kind of like getting a judge to sign an arrest warrant, there has to be probable cause, and there has to be a written public warrant to curb prosecutorial abuse. These "torture warrants" perhaps should be made available if not to the public, then maybe to the Senate. Keeping some sort of record of it hopefully will keep it a rare occurence, and used only on people who are in line to get the death penalty.

[Rick Ballard]

"If it's torture, then they are criminals."

If it's torture then he, as CIC, is a criminal. Maybe we can refer the matter to that Spanish twerp prosecutor.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

They made their bed.

And now we're going to sleep in it.

[lurking]

Don't look back, Obama; somebody CIA is gaining on you.

[daddy]

As a non-lawyer, this seems to me to be an interesting question. Obama made the blanket statement the other night that in his opinion Waterboarding was torture. Period. Previous Presidents obviously did not share this view as otherwise they would have outlawed the practice of torturing at Sere School. Now that Obama has publically stated that it is torture, if he does not immediately ban the practice of waterboarding at SERE School, it seems to me 2 things follow:

1) Either Waterboarding of Sere Schooler's is technically and legally different than waterboarding KSM, AZ, etc, so that that question is finally definitively answered, or

2) Waterboarding anytime is torture, and as Commander in Chief, if Obama allows waterboarding to continue at SERE School, as Commander in Chief, he therefore absolutely, undeniably, is 100 percent guilty of allowing and condoning torture.

Hopefully the Lawyers here will show me where I am incorrect, but otherwise, let me advise Soylent to quickly apply to SERE School, as there may be a big pot of money at the end of the rainbow made by the water coming out of that waterboard hose.

[Jim Glass]

I find this whole discussion very bizarre.

When the shooting starts we Americans will send enemy combatants crushed in their ships to the bottom of the ocean; roll fleets of tanks literally over masses of enemy soldiers, use B-17s, B-29s and B-52s to carpet bomb 'em and blow them to pieces en masse; and all together kill, maim, cripple, and burn alive enemy combatants by the hundreds of thousands if not millions; yes even drop *nukes* on cities(!); all to force entire enemy nations into "unconditional surrender". Then years later we'll proudly recall it as a "good war", and have Tom Brokaw do a nostalgic special on it!

But if we take three individual enemy combatants and pour water up their noses, to force them to provide important military information, and later let them go home otherwise physically unharmed, this is the immoral shame of the nation that extinguishes the national beacon.

Hey ... imagine you are combatant in a fighting engagement and you are losing (it happens). Suddenly a genie appears to you and offers you three ways to lose, you get the choice of the one you want...

1) You get hit by an artillerly shell and are blown to pieces -- quick and probably painless, but very final; or

2) You get napalmed or flame-throwered -- slow and extremely painful, and equally final.

3) You get captured and held down and have water poured up your nose until you tell your captors whatever they want to hear, then are sent home and get to live out the rest of your natural life.

Which do you choose?

[Mark_0454]

Any chance a CIA insider will "leak" a memo showing effectiveness of harsh interrogation? The material the administration has not released yet. Will the NYT and others call them a traitor or a courageous whistle-blower?

[JM Hanes]

TM:

Obama said virtually the same thing a week or so ago, when he went out to "reassure" the folks at Langley:

Obama has given CIA officers immunity from prosecution and free lawyers if they get sued over torture allegations. He acknowledged CIA brass has "expressed understandable anxiety" over the memos' release.

If that makes their job harder spying and stopping terror plots, "that's okay," he said. "We're on the better side of history."

He admits that the release of the memos will make it harder to stop terror plots. But it will make us safer!

I love how he promises to pay their legal bills when they get sued, don't you?

[JM Hanes]

I also read somewhere that Obama said releasing the memos that Cheney wants is going to be a little harder. Yeah, unhuh. Don't quote me -- it might have been Gibbs or someone, but I think it was Obama.

[fdcol63]

Terrorists all over the world are laughing their a$$e$ off right now, breathing huge sighs of relief, as Obama validates their perception of the US as a "weak horse".

[Sue]

While I agree that the CIA has indeed reaped some of what it has sown, I doubt those involved in the enhanced interrogation were involved in leaking anything. I think the leaks came from the desk jockies, like Valerie Plame. Thinking back, the leaks sort of dried up after Plame and that other woman, Mary something or other, left. Putting these 2 men's names, addresses and pictures out there for any nutjob to find them is pure evil.

[Ann]

JMH,

Firefox just crashed and I lost my entire post. But I think it is interesting to compare what Obama has done with the Torture memos and the CIA with what he said today about a new Supreme Court Justice:

I will seek someone who understands that justice isn't about some abstract legal theory or footnote in a case book. It is also about how our laws affect the daily realities of people's lives -- whether they can make a living and care for their families; whether they feel safe in their homes and welcome in their own nation.

I view that quality of empathy, of understanding and identifying with people's hopes and struggles as an essential ingredient for arriving as just decisions and outcomes

He could careless about the LAWS just the outcomes. His outcomes.

Do you think Michelle wrote the part about "welcome in our nation".

Carp, my other post was better but I hope you get my drift.

[JM Hanes]

I agree, Sue. I think a lot of those folks were out there risking their butts to keep us safe. Why would they want to compromise the CiC or the Agency's HQ -- and risk themselves or their fellow agents in the process? I can imagine being pissed if the Pres discounted your analysis, but most of the leaks were just flat out political incendiaries -- and even the NIE which purported to be about intel assessment was bogus. I think it was more likely to be some of the analysts with big egos, marking territories, and the political appointees who put their own agendas first.

I must admit, though, I sure wish someone could explain to me why Bush cut Goss off at the knees when it looked like he was finally making a little headway on the house cleaning.

[bad]

O/T Obama's team is talking about Supreme Ct. nominees:

As the Democratic strategist added, the team was also cognizant that modern-day research tools could effectively turn up information that traditional vetting processes would miss.

How funny is this? The Obama team is cognizant of a vetting advantage. HOOOOOOEEEY!! Why are these modern day research tools available for SCOTUS nominees but not Cabinet nominees? And couldn't these same modern day tools be used to verify info about torture and Churchill.

But I digress.... LUN

[JM Hanes]

Boy, do I ever, Ann. The guy has got his branches of government totally reversed! The Supreme Court is about the Constitution; it's the legislature that's responsible for how laws affect daily realities. Of course, he really doesn't seem to clear on executive powers either; he'd have had a rude awakening without a Democratic Congress -- or if we had a working press. I really wish I had a working brain at the moment, but I'm positive I read somewhere that the White House has been walking back the President's C.V. It seems like maybe he didn't exactly teach constitutional law. I'm guessing he ran a few touchy feely seminars -- do you remember hearing any course descriptions or titles anywhere? I don't.

[bad]

JMH, It was Gibbs who said the president had not taught constitutional law.

[Ann]

Here are the two things I remember reading about after Gibbs made that famous but mostly unreported statement:

Bench Memos NRO

WILLIAM MCGURN WSJ

[Rick Ballard]

JMH,

Reparations 101 (as understood by a race hustler).

[cathyf]

You get captured and held down and have water poured up your nose until you tell your captors whatever they want to hear, then are sent home and get to live out the rest of your natural life.

Oh, it's not even that. Using a clever implementation of plastic wrap, your nervous system is fooled into thinking that water is being poured up your nose, while in fact, no water ends up on the nose side of the plastic wrap. (Having water really poured up your nose is somewhat dangerous. If you inhale it, you really could drown.)

[Ann]

Sheesh, Rick. Way back in July 2008 when we still had President Bush, 401k(s), security, lower taxes, privately owned companies, pride and Hope. I think I will cry for the memories. ;(

By the way, 1) How do you guys remember? and 2)How do you find JOM posts so quickly.

[Publius]

Maybe someday those modern day research tools will be able to effectivelsy turn up legitimate birth certificates and university transcripts.

[Publius]

*effectively*

[Neo]

The Obama administration is moving toward reviving the military commission system for prosecuting Guantánamo detainees, which was a target of critics during the Bush administration, including Mr. Obama himself.

Was Bush right or is Obama possessed ?

[Ann]

Hey, Publius. Nice to see you around again!

You have to believe that if Sarah Palin's birth certificate or her university transcripts were in any doubt they would of been found by now. I was reading Conservatives 4 Sarah Palin and it made me sick at what is obviously a paid campaign to ruin her and her family.

The scary thing is, what will happen when these organizations are paid for and backed by the American tax payer dollar (ACORN). We will all be Responsible for or deserving of blame for ruining a persons life.

[Ann]

Let me make that clearer. I was referring to the post on "Rex Butler and Tank Jones Target Governor Palin"

Who is Rex Butler?

Daddy, if you come by tonight, fill us in! Thanks ♥

[Publius]

Hello Ann,

I've been lurking in the background here occasionally. I've just found the past 101 days too painful to talk about.

I also fear that the Sarah Palen treatment is just a warm-up for things to come to those who choose to stand up to Hope & Change. As Rush said today, the bankers are afraid, very afraid.

Congratulations on the flowers!

[JM Hanes]

Rick:

What a walk down memory lane! A lot of goodies on that thread.

After scanning Elliott's PDF of Obama's 2003 Exam, Ann, I'm not so sure that Franck caught the full flavor of those "constitutional subjects" he suggests were the connecting thread between Obama's courses. I'd have it was more like teaching The 14th Amendment for Dummies, or Write My Next Position Paper for Free. And looking back, one of his former students kinda sorta saw some similarities. His "groupies" also lent a hand with pamphleteering. One thing is fer sure after an exam; he didn't write his memoirs by himself! I didn't realize that Frederick Douglass was his oratorical model, so it will be fun to check out his speeches, which I've never actually done before.

I haven't read the article hit posted back then from The Caucus yet, with comments on Obama's exams from various legal notables -- seminars were mentioned! -- but it included links to eamples from 1996 - 2003. The earliest two also have a post-exam memo explaining what he was looking for which might an interesting contrast with current circumstances.. It also had a link to this NY Times piece about Obama as teacher. That was another real blast from the past: emblematic Obama, and emblematic NYTimes coverage too. The fact that he "never completed a single work of legal scholarship" was evidence of the courageously contrarian path he trod, and his "ascension" to the post of senior lecturer gave him the rarefied status enjoyed by federal judges. And who'd a thunk it, Rick, here are your reparations:

“Are there legal remedies that alleviate not just existing racism, but racism from the past?” Adam Gross, now a public interest lawyer in Chicago, wrote in his class notes in April 1994.

I don't think Obama ever cared about the law or the Constitution. What he cared about was the politics of law -- then and now.

[JM Hanes]

Well, somebody has to do the late night honors, so it might as well be me!

Courtesy of Real Clear Politics I ended up over at Human Events, reading Jed Babbin's piece on the CIA and the desperate straits the Democrats now find themselves in, starting with Pelosi's Kerryesque waffling:

As badly as that hurt Pelosi, what apparently pushed her into a panic was the feedback she and other Democrats are getting from the CIA.  Pelosi learned that her actions, and those of President Obama and other Democrats over the past ninety days have so damaged CIA morale that the agency’s ability to function could be in danger. 

As a result, two emergency closed-door meetings were called this week on Capitol Hill. he first meeting, on Tuesday evening, was attended by Pelosi, Intelligence Committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes (D-Tx) and others.  The following night, Pelosi and some or all of the other attendees met with CIA Director Leon Panetta, also behind closed doors. 

No Republicans were invited to either meeting which means the Democrats were assessing the damage and deciding how to maneuver their way out from under the responsibility for it.  Spin and strategy. 

There's lots more, including a remarkable cya message to the CIA from Intel Chairman Reyes -- which gets off to an inauspicious start, IMO, before you even leave the cover page. It's addressed to Leon Panetta, but starts out:

Dear Friends and Colleagues:

Please find enclosed a letter to the CIA workforce. I would appreciate if you would disseminate it to the CIA workforce as soon as possible.

He tells them he is looking forward to expanding Congressional oversight! I'm sure the CIA workforce is positively thrilled and reassured by Reyes personal touch. Babbin quotes a good part of the letter, but it's worth reading in its full tin eared glory.

Things are going to get worse before they get better.

[Elliott]

Good morning, JMH.

[JM Hanes]

Real Clear Politics reminded me of something else I've been thinking about. Now that Arlen Specter has switched teams, will the Democrats think they'll look really bad if they still use reconciliation to push things through? Or maybe figure that they don't need to do it that way after all?

Somehow I doubt they would risk going through normal channels, but what would happen if the Republicans picked up the vote they needed to filibuster the healthcare package? Could the Dems reverse course and go back to reconciliation? Or does committing to one option cancel out the other? My dream sequence, of course, is that the Republicans pick up enough Democrats after such bills hit the floor to vote them down.

Its my impression that you can't build an automatic do over (i.e. ex post facto funding) into a bill unless you do it through reconciliation? I'm not really clear on the specifics.

Legal Insurrection also pointed out that for a Supreme Court Nominee to get out of the Judiciary Committee, the aye votes have to include at least one vote from the minority party. Now that Arlen Specter no longer fits the bill, that could suddenly pose a problem! Bwa ha ha! I suppose the Dems would be able change that rule as they do whenever rules get in the way, but that would sure be sweet revenge. I also rather enjoy contemplating Leahy and Specter trying to get along !

[JM Hanes]

Good morning, Elliott! I was just about to switch off the lights! I figure when I've got the last post on every page, it might mean it's time.

[daddy]

JMH,

Next time I do such bad math, just shoot me.

[Rick Ballard]

Oh, look! Another Another "green shoot"! Only 14 out of the top 19 banks in the US are as broke as GM and Chrysler.

Which ones are going to be selected as "partners" by the (D)irty Fascists? Will scum have to be sent up from Harlem to intimidate the Connecticut Coward Corps again or will they fold like cheap suitcases without intimidation? (The Connecticut Coward Corps is composed of Wall Street "players" noted for the yellow streak down their back accompanied by a "maybe they'll eat me last" mentality.)

So many questions.

[Rick Ballard]

In contrast, this is what a businessman/attorney with a backbone looks like.

Goldstein covers another aspect of Obama's fascism.

[Pofarmer]

JMH, It was Gibbs who said the president had not taught constitutional law.

Ya know, the questions becomes, just what exactly HAS this guy done???

His whole life has been politics, coupled with no accomplishment of any kind.

[Gmax]

In slightly more cheery vein, I note the American people are paying attention and not liking what they see. As such Rasmussen detects the sentiment this week on the generic congressional ballot, where he pegs the GOP to a +3 this week. The Democrats rode into 2009 +6, so you can see the obvious buyer's remorse.

And oh by the way, you can have Specter. He only made official what was obvious to anyone paying attention for years.

[SWarren]

Rick, I'm in Michigan and listen to Frank Beckman every morning. I was amazed at what Lauria had to say yesterday.

We've got Obama’s Chicago mafia using White House Press Corps as their goons?

Oppenheimer and Stairway Cap will probably fold to the intimidation as well.

Freaking unbelievable!

[Porchlight]

I also fear that the Sarah Palen treatment is just a warm-up for things to come to those who choose to stand up to Hope & Change.

I think you are right, Publius. The real lesson of 2008 for the GOP has nothing to do with conservative vs. moderate candidates. It is that the Palin treatment will be given to EVERY GOP presidential candidate in the future, no matter what policies he or she holds. How this can be stopped with an Dem activist MSM I have no idea. The only thing I can hope for is that the electorate is so collectively PO'd that the tactic won't work next time around.

[Jane]

Rick,

The businessman with a backbone should be reported in every lawyer's weekly in the country.

This is my favorite part:

The judge sat there through the trial reading a newspaper. At one point an objection was made, the bailiff taps him on the shoulder and says 'judge, objection is being made.' He looks at our lawyer and says 'overruled.' The plaintiffs' lawyer raises his hand and says 'no, judge, it was me.' He says 'sustained' and goes back to reading the paper."

What the hell is this world coming to? (and I say that as a former tort lawyer - please don't let that out.)

[Rick Ballard]

"The only thing I can hope for is that the electorate is so collectively PO'd that the tactic won't work next time around."

It would be helpful if the great cowards of Wall Street could rent a backbone for a week or two rather than angling to see who could become the Fiat/Thiessen/Krupp/Bayer for this Chicago gutter trash.

If we want to keep a free market then we damn well better use it to destroy the bootlickers. Let the fascist Widowmakers rust on the lots.

[gmax]

Let the fascist Widowmakers rust on the lots.

I think the American people responded to your boycott call, with the notable exception of the Jeep line, many years ago, but will no doubt continue the boycott. What is likely to change with the UAW running the company, other than more paid time off?

And the car company affectionately referred to as " FIX IT AGAIN, TONY" brings what to the table?

Big plus here is at least the muddle will see in glorious technicolor the nexus that is Unions and their democrat minions in action.

[daddy]

Ann,

Good morning.

Don't know much about that particular smear job you link to at Conservatives 4 Palin. Unfortunately stuff like that goes on up here all the time so a lot of it I just don't even pay attention too as I think I talk about it too much.

I was glad to see though that the top new story on that blog is about a letter from Wev Shea, Former US Attorney in Alaska. He is the guy who I've linked to before who knew the details of a lot of the lying in the Ted Steven's case right from the beginning, and brought to light a lot of the corruption going on within the FBI Investigation team. I am pleased to see him stepping foreward in Sarah's defense, and demanding that the State assist her in paying for fighting these multiple rediculous lawsuits which are bankrupting her. She needs knowledgable supporters like him going to bat for her so I'm happy when he makes noise.

Of big news is our Mayoral runnoff next week. Mayoral elections are probably not of big consequence to you guys in your states, but in Alaska it is very big. The Dem's and media are really pushing hard and dirty in trying to elect Begich clone Eric Croft, but fiscal Conservative Dan Sullivan is still polling ahead by about 10 points. If Sullivan wins I have big hopes for the State, as he is somewhat riding the crest of Tea Party energy. If Croft wins, then I think we are in big trouble Statewise of turning Blue. We'll know by next weekend. Finger's crossed please.