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June 28, 2009

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Fresh Air

TM--

Your critique is a pitiful and tendentious representation of Cashill's work.

One of the most important elements of his analysis is the extensive use of sea metaphors by "Obama" in Dreams. These dovetail perfectly with Ayers' own experiences, and are exactly the reverse of BHO's. There is a very sophisticated statistical matching analysis for phraseology also employed that you conveniently ignore.

Lookit. It's all well and good to be skeptical. But Cashill is not a crackpot, he's done very thorough work, and it has substantive statistical weight behind it. You can dismiss it, but I don't think you do yourself any favors by so doing.

If you had ever written a book, you would understand, as Cashill does, that authors do reach for the same phrases, similes and metaphors again and again. Even experienced writers tend to re-use them. That there is virtually no overlap in vocabulary or descriptive style between "Obama's" two books is powerfully damning.

I urge everyone to ignore Tom and Jonah's light gloss and actually read both of Cashill's pieces at American Thinker. No way Zero wrote Dreams. It may not have been an Ayers production, but there was definitely a ghostwriter involved.

susanne

TM,
I wonder if you have actually read the two books in question?
Granted, I skimmed The Audacity of Hope (tedious beyond belief), but I can buy the argument Cahill is making - the two books do not seem to be written by the same author. Now, maybe Obama was in a hurry with Audacity, or, maybe some flack wrote it for him - he was busy campaigning, after all.
But, here is the thing - an author’s voice tends to come through all his writings. I remember thinking - Man, Richard Stark is really ripping off Stephen King - before I knew they were one and the same.
Just my 2 cents - but, really - how hard is it to believe he is a fraud in his writing, too?

PaulL

Tom,

Perhaps you could explain Obama's knowledge of tides? Maybe he is just so doggone smart about everything?

From Cashill, much more persuasive than hog butchers:

A newly discovered anecdote from Bill Ayers' 1993 book, To Teach, solidifies the case that he is indeed the muse behind Barack Obama's Dreams From My Father.

In the book, Ayers tells the story of an adventurous teacher who would take her students out to the streets of New York to learn interesting life lessons about the culture and history of the city. As Ayers tells it, the students were fascinated by the Hudson River nearby and asked to see it. When they got to the river's edge, one student said, " Look, the river is flowing up." A second student said, "No, it has to flow south-down."

Not knowing which was right, the teacher and the students did their research. What they discovered, writes Ayers, was "that the Hudson River is a tidal river, that it flows both north and south, and they had visited the exact spot where the tide stops its northward push."

In his 1995 book, Dreams From My Father, Barack Obama shares a stunningly comparable anecdote about tidal rivers from his own brief New York sojourn. He tells of meeting with "Marty Kauffman" at a Lexington Avenue diner, the man from Chicago who was trying to recruit him as a community organizer.

After the meeting, Obama "took the long way home, along the East River promenade." As "a long brown barge rolled through the gray waters toward the sea," Obama sat down on a bench to consider his options. While sitting, he noticed a black woman and her young son against the railing. Overly fond of the too well remembered detail, Obama observes that "they stood side by side, his arm wrapped around her leg, a single silhouette against the twilight."

The boy appeared to ask his mother a question that she could not answer and then approached Obama: "Excuse me, mister," he shouted. "You know why sometimes the river runs that way and then sometimes it goes this way?"

"The woman smiled and shook her head, and I said it probably had to do with the tides." Obama uses the seeming indecisiveness of this tidal river as a metaphor for his own. Immediately afterwards, he shakes the indecision and heads for Chicago.

clarice

I have a better clue about whether or not Ibama authored these books: Nothing he has said or written before or after indicates the least bit of literary deftness and these books apparently do.

If the media covered Ibama's impromptus as they did Bush' it would be obvious to all the Ibama was the worst speaker of the two.

Porchlight

TM,

Have you read Cashill's previous articles on this subject, as he suggests all readers do? The effect is cumulative.

Background on "Dreams"

Particularly note the Diana Oughton story and its echoes in Dreams.

Now, to one of many small items you neglected to mention:

More exotically, both authors evoke images of a "boy" riding on the backs of a "water buffalo" and prodding the beast not just with sticks, but with "bamboo sticks." Ayers places his boy in Vietnam. Obama puts his in Indonesia.

What are the odds? This is one of dozens if not hundreds of examples.

Here is another, from the previous Cashill piece linked above:

In To Teach, Ayers recounts the story of an ambitious teacher who takes her students out to the streets of New York to learn about its culture and history. These students ask to see the nearby Hudson River. When they get to the river's edge, one student says, " Look, the river is flowing up." A second student says, "No, it has to flow south-down." Upon further research, the teacher discovers "that the Hudson River is a tidal river, that it flows both north and south, and they had visited the exact spot where the tide stops its northward push."

In Dreams, written two years later, Obama takes an unlikely detour to the exact spot on the parallel East River where the north-flowing tide meets the south-flowing river. There, improbably, a young black boy approaches this strange man and asks, "You know why sometimes the river runs that way and then sometimes it goes this way?" Obama tells the boy it "had to do with the tides."

Again: what are the odds? I agree it would be helpful to have a control group of other memoirs, but I am pretty sure this anecdotal similarity will not be repeated elsewhere.

The notion that Dreams was ghostwritten by *someone* is not that farfetched. Obama had published almost nothing before Dreams, yet out pops a fully-formed literary memoir like Athena from the head of Zeus? That's what's not credible.

Porchlight

Aha, I see PaulL is way ahead of me....

PaulL

Uh oh, Porchlight. Now Tom will say that our similar posts would indicate to Cashill that we are the same person.

Fresh Air

As trial lawyers know, sometimes circumstantial evidence can be the most damning. This case bristles with the stuff.

Yeah, and where were his previous writings? One would think such a fine author would have at least flexed his literary muscles on a couple of law review articles...wouldn't one?

reliapundit

why is jane dystel - obama's agent - whose contract he broke - silent.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Porchlight

LOL Paul. Well, someday, if we're lucky, maybe we'll know more about exactly how the young unpublished Obama, afflicted with writer's block and in danger of having to pay back his advance, flew to Bali with Michelle and in six months' time produced the bestseller Dreams from My Father. Because he really is that amazingly talented, I guess.

RichatUF

Or newspaper articles, or some clip from when he worked at Business International, or maybe a college paper or two...Curious he has almost no written record other than his "books".

PeterUK

reliapundit,
More to the poin why did Jane Dystel expend so much effort on Obama? Who was the girlfriend Obama pushed away because she diluted his blackness.

Why did Obama never write anything else,either at college or the Harvard Law Review,or even now. Writers tend to have reams of the stuff written before the big one.

Dorothy Jane

The river references are really very coincidental. Perhaps it is a little bit of both. Not completely ghost written, but big chunks. Maybe Ayers told Obama her could plagiarize him. What an honor!!! Maybe Obama was stuck, went to Ayers and Ayers said "Hey - I have this great river metaphor..."

centralcal

It amazes me, how there is all this "hidden" stuff about Obama, but anyone who tries to question it or play detective is considered a crackpot or the looney conspiracy theorist.

Meanwhile, the helium balloon that is Zero wafts above us all impervious to slings and arrows . . .

I think I am gonna start cocktails early tonight.

Captain Hate

Curious he has almost no written record other than his "books".

Well there was that sub-doggerel about monkeys and figs that might be the worst poetry ever written....

RichatUF

Yea, forgot about that. Someone did dig up an atrocious article from the 1980's with his by-line. I was disappointed that I didn't get a $125k book contract right out of school to write about myself. ::sigh::

Porchlight

A couple of questions for the regular JOM readers.

1. How many times have you begun reading a JOM comment and accurately guessed its writer before reading the name?

2. Do you think, after years of reading TM's posts, that you could pick one out of a lineup (so to speak) with those of other bloggers?

Last question: Don Foster is the literary forensics expert who pegged Joe Klein as the author of Primary Colors. Did he have a baseline or control group in this exercise? I honestly don't know; I guess I can read his book and find out. It looks like fun.

Janet

I for one think Mr. Cahill raised some VERY interesting questions in all his writings of this subject. Heaven forbid anyone in the MSM should look into Obama's background. We know....correction...the general public knows very little about Obama. I applaud Mr. Cahill's effort.

Captain Hate

Unmentioned by anybody throughout this is how many deadlines the Lord of the Flyswatters missed on what was supposed to be a book of legal scholarship for which he received advances before he decided to write about his favorite topic. I'm sure he was gripping hard about possibly having to repay the money and possibly *gasp* have to work for a living. Anybody that thinks he wouldn't have sought out help for this is being deliberately obtuse.

I'm pretty sure I could identify a high percentage of Rick, PUK, narciso and clarice's comments if they were unsigned.

PeterUK

"Curious he has almost no written record other than his "books"."

They seem more like a script than autobiographical.Can anyone answer this question?

Taking into consideration that, as a breed,politicians are not shrinking violets,indeed some are raging egomaniacs and rampant narcissists,why does Obama have no past history?
A few things that occur with celebrity simply are not there.Where are the anecdotes,where are the stories from school friends,college chums and work colleagues.
There isn't a politician alive,except Obama, who wouldn't give you their entire life story if they had you trapped in a lift.

centralcal

Folks, please . . .

Cashill
Cashill
Cashill

not, Cahill. You, too, Tom M.

Janet

Exactly! PeterUK. Again, heaven forbid anyone in the MSM should do any looking. And the uncomplicated FACT that he lied about his relationship with Ayers.

centralcal

PUK: You are dead on. However, our Dear Leader does have a past history.

Unfortunately, most of it is hidden from us or floating about on gossamer wings created by his Chicago pals.

peter

I guess if just one single MSM reporter had asked Obama during the two year election what he was doing in the eighties, who he associated with at Columbia, why almost no one knows him, there might be a lot more evidence. The fact that Obama can't string together two sentences without significant stammering tells me he ain't no author, but that's just a conclusion I have come to.

peter

PeterUK, I just posted without reading your post, and I guess that proves that you and I are the same person.

centralcal

The galling part is that anyone who dares to point these things out, or question, or opine, are immediately slandered - and most often, by our own "side."

Jonah Goldberg is himself a narcissist. It is always all about Jonah. May be a nice guy. May be a good conservative. But, Jonah also is deeply infatuated with Jonah.

PeterUK

I find it odd that "The Man Who Never Was" can wander in and put his finger on the most stupendous nuclear arsenal on the planet,and all the liberals can worry about is Climate Change. This bozo can give you climate change in spades, with some left over.

PaulL

Ayers never was thrown under the bus, either. Ultimately the most that Ibama was forced to say was that Ayers once committed some despicable acts.

BB Key

From Tom Brokaw to Charlie Rose after the election:
"I do not no much about Barack Obama..."

ht: Rush

PeterUK

peter,
Oh good,the utility bill came Saturday,would you pay it whilst we're out.

Jack is Back!

PUK,

Exactly! We know someone who went to Occidental with The O & she is a huge big time Dem but cannot relate one anctedote of his time there, yet speaks of him as if they were room mates. It's a sickness. Or like a religion. . There is more here than politics - it's almost paranormal.

RichatUF

If you had folks like Ayers and Wright in your past would you want anyone to do more digging? Even "zombie" thought Obama's Columbia story a bit flakey. But enough information is on the record anyway that no one can say they weren't warned.

The media saw Chicago and Rev. Crazypants and went into "Kansas values" cover-up mode and birthed, after a nine-month campaign commercial, a President.

24AheadDotCom

1. Even if it's accurate, this story is never going to have an impact unless some actual documentary evidence is found, such as an email of Ayers sending a passage to BHO's publisher.

2. There are much more important things to concentrate on, such as BHO's policies.

3. The "birth cert" part of the title illustrates mass stupidity and a failure to take simple steps to discredit opponents. To understand what I mean, here are the facts about this issue. On the one hand, people like Maguire mock those who tell the truth about that issue, despite the fact that it could be used to discredit a good number of MSM reporters. But, at the same time, more fringe-y BHO opponents engage in speculation rather than concentrating on telling the truth about that issue.

Terry Ott

I am impressed with Cashill's analysis. It is far too comprehensive to dismiss out of hand, as Mr. Maguire seeme to do. It is obsessive, but to me that simply says he KNOWS he is on to something, and that is instructive in its own right. A "hack", willing to reach conclusions based on some superficial cherry-picking is what we do NOT see in Cashill's analysis.

I am far too impatient to read Obama's books, after having simply read about them. That said, if Obama were actually an accomplished writer of his own "stuff" it would be apparent by virtue of other things he wrote, on subjects other than himself. Let's have a look at THAT stuff, if it exists. If it doesn't, well .... there is THAT angle.

People who are intending to "take Cashill apart" had better be prepared to do so line by line, page by page, as a lawyer would in order to prove a case. I just participated in a 2-week jury trial, and it took over a million dollars of preparation time to win it. If we had done what Maguire does in this article, we'd have (1) saved a lot of time and money, and (2) lost the case. That's because the jury would have retired to their deliberation room and said "OK, the defendants' attorney made some dents in the armor of the plaintiffs here, here, and here. But they must not have had much ammunition to penetrate through to the dozens of other points made by the plaintiffs, or else they would have done so".

Maguire would serve his interests equally well if he simply said, "It's total BS; trust me". In other words, whatever minutes he spent writing the insufficient "counter" would have been better spent watching a ball game or reading the Sunday NY Times.

Jane

What I want to know is precisely what Ayers is getting in return.

Danube of Thought

The Hudson River, like any river emptying into an ocean, is tidal at the point where the river meets the sea, and that point varies as the tide in the ocean ebbs and floods. The river is fresh water; the ocean is salt; and the water along the length of the upper and lower reaches of the tides it is brackish.

The East River is not actually a river; it is simply a narrow, river-like body of water at the western extremity of the Atlantic. It is salt water.

Been a long time since I was in NYC, and I can't get a good look through Google maps. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

PeterUK

"2. There are much more important things to concentrate on, such as BHO's policies."

Barrack Hussein Obama is his policies.He was created out of whole cloth and bits of Barry Dunham to put these policies into practice.
These policies were shovel ready to go when Obama was elected.Do you really think President Nemo developed them himself?

PeterUK

Jane,

"What I want to know is precisely what Ayers is getting in return."

What he couldn't achieve with bombs.

Extraneus

And it's not like 0bama didn't have some serious backers all along, either. (Tribe, Buffett, etc.) They and others saw the possibilities, and helped make it happen. Even without AA, he didn't have to do very much all by himself.

DrJ

How many times have you begun reading a JOM comment and accurately guessed its writer before reading the name?

Often. Most of the regulars (and that includes yer trolls) are easy for me to identify.

On the other, I probably could could pick Tom's posts out a random group. I could do the same for other blogs that I follow.

Why do you ask?

Porchlight

What I want to know is precisely what Ayers is getting in return.

To see his preferred policies put in place, and the satisfaction of having duped the country he so despises.

Also a lot of back door sunshine-blowing from the likes of Chavez, Castro etc. They know what's what.

In short everything the guy lives for, minus the byline.

24AheadDotCom

PeterUK helps illustrate one major part of the problem. People can wander the streets shouting at the wind about BHO, but it isn't going to make a bit of difference. His opponents need to concentrate on specific issues that he's wrong on, and then show others - specifically his supporters - how he's wrong.

Over two years ago, I tried to ask him a question and when that failed I spent countless hours trying to get others to ask him that and similar questions. That was a specific question about something that he did, and it probably would have at least taken him aback. I've since come up with some better ones, but it doesn't matter. Instead of concentrating on things he's actually said and done, his opponents concentrate on speculation, generalities, and all the rest.

PeterUK

PeterUK helps illustrate one major part of the problem.

Well no.I don' particularly care about his domestic policies.I do care that he has bombers and missiles stationed in my country.
So pretty please, WTF is he?

Porchlight

Why do you ask?

In order to demonstrate that it's possible, even easy with practice, to recognize distinct literary styles even in places where they're not supposed to exist.

IOW I don't believe Cashill's work deserves the out-of-hand dismissal TM has given it. (And the birther jab is just a straight up cheap shot.)

Soylent Red

The galling part is that anyone who dares to point these things out, or question, or opine, are immediately slandered - and most often, by our own "side."

Here's the thing that haunts me...

Perpetrating the greatest political fraud in history would require audacity (if you'll excuse the phrase) and timing that would appear to most to be the stuff of conspiracy theory.

What would that look like? I dunno. What I do know is that 52% elected a President whose life story went like this:

Either the son of a wannabe Marxist and an African Communist, or, the illegitimate son of a wannabe Marxist mother and Frank Davis. Groomed from an early age as a socialist by the aforementioned Davis. Exposed to socialist dogma SDSers and Alinskyites at every stage of educational development. Immersed in machine politics and BLT in the dirtiest political climate in the country. Brought from obscurity on the basis of one speech. Birth records hidden. Educational records hidden. No accomplishments or record of accomplishments. Rises to national prominence. Defeats a heavily favored political insider by using ACORN vote rigging and dirty pool and by raising enormous amounts of cash from the likes of Soros and the Hollywood Left. Protected at every step by a complicit Left wing media apparatus. Upon election to POTUS begins a systematic campaign to institute State Socialism into policy.

Would you have believed such a thing could happen ten years ago? Or would you have thought it was crazy talk?

That's what haunts me when people want to debunk yet another theory regarding Obama's past.

PeterUK

Porchlight,
If it helps.I have endless mirth and fun spotting trolls who use aliases.They can change their names but they can't change their style of writing.

MeTooThen

Query: What I want to know is precisely what Ayers is getting in return.?

Answer: Prairie Fire, writ large.

And yes, as to whose posts belong to whom.

Mine is an idiosyncratic style and one that is easily identified.

In my life as a physician, the same holds true. Each doctor has his or her own style when comes to language, i.e, descriptors chosen, pace, length, structure, etc.

Over the many years I have dictated tens of thousands of notes. The early ones (1992) read pretty much the same as today, and, more to the point, so too the notes of my colleagues.

Whether or not William Ayers wrote or ghost wrote "Dreams" is besides the point.

That no one knows Barack Hussein Obama II, is frightening. This, despite all those "thrown under the proverbial bus" and no one can point to how he paid for college, what where his grades, what were his LSAT scores, etc.

Sigh.

I respect TM as an analyst with a keen mind and sharp wit. On this point, he appears dull on both accounts.

Just sayin'

PeterUK

Mr Red
Don't forget a huge economic crisis which, for some inexplicable reason, chose to erupt bang on a presidential election.

PeterUK

BTW,It wasn't unknown for the kingmakers in times gone by to select a nonentity and have them crowned ,thus be able to rule through them.
That,in my estimation, is what happened here.

Dorothy Jane

I think Obama is scary beyond belief. I don't know if Ayers wrote it outright, but I believe he helped, a lot. Obama's approval might be going down a smidge, but the true believers are still rabid. My sister was just here, she is so far in the tank for him, I want to cry. I understand the family divisions in the civil war like I never did before. I have to bite my tongue. On Friday, I was checking to see what the final vote was for Cap n trade - she looked over my shoulder and said "Oh I hope it passes! That's what we need! A market based solution!" and then she went chirping off into the next room. This is someone who keeps all her blinds closed to keep the electric bill low in the summer. We made it through Clinton, we made in through Bush... but the way she feels about Obama is frightening. She is going further and further to the left.

Rick Ballard

One might consider this piece as a bit of a failure as an advertisement (to some) for the forthcoming book. It's not as strong a teaser as his previous pieces.

Alternatively, Goldberg's book wasn't nearly as good as the Niagara of teasers which he generated prior to its publication. All in all, I'll take a subpar teaser over subpar final product.

Jack is Back!

Who cares? Billy Mays is dead, for Christ's sake. Don't you have any priorities anymore?:)

Extraneus

I agree on Golberg's book. Lots of good information, and the book supported his thesis, but it was a hard read and could have been much better organized.

Jack is Back!

Of course Ayres wrote it. It is basically indefensible since Obama couldn't write his own name for 15 years. This may be the largest and most egregious caprice ever foisted on the American public since this!

Jack is Back!

Dorothy Jane,

Fear of the future sends you to the left and sometimes to the fascists but never to sensibility.

Fresh Air

The thing about "not knowing" this guy is that, to me, there isn't much to really "know." He's a commie/socialist who has tried to keep his ideas to himself, while also ducking responsibility for pretty much everything ever since he first got elected to the Illinois Senate. My feeling is he's pretty much a dope. His only gift is getting himself elected. He's not a writer or an orator, simply a reader, with as much skill at that as your average weatherman from Rochester, New York.

There isn't some deep soul lurking behind his facade; just the unbearable nothingness of a complete phony with an IQ of 111.

PeterUK

Fresh Air,
Which would support the theory that Obama is simply a front man.I seems obvious that Obama himself has neither the ability,inclination or time to prepare the raft of wide reaching policies that have washed over your country.
Proving Obama is a front man allows you to seek out the string pullers.

Jane

In short everything the guy lives for, minus the byline.

So what if he wants more?

Certainly the blackmail possibilities are endless. Maybe we should be rereading Ayers to really figure out Obama.

Porchlight

Certainly the blackmail possibilities are endless.

Good point. I knew there was another reason why candidates were supposed to be properly vetted.

Janet

"he's pretty much a dope."...I so agree. Remember those pictures out recently from his college days. Straw hat, smoking, cocky, hipster.

peter

The thing about "not knowing" this guy is that, to me, there isn't much to really "know." He's a commie/socialist who has tried to keep his ideas to himself, while also ducking responsibility for pretty much everything ever since he first got elected to the Illinois Senate. My feeling is he's pretty much a dope. His only gift is getting himself elected. He's not a writer or an orator, simply a reader, with as much skill at that as your average weatherman from Rochester, New York.

There isn't some deep soul lurking behind his facade; just the unbearable nothingness of a complete phony with an IQ of 111.
Post of the day.

Janet

And why are these questions still flying around...debated between Mr. Cashill and Tom Maguire? Because we do not have news reporters any more. The MSM makes me sick.

narciso

I concur ,with much of Fresh Air's analysis,
his mother was a idiosyncratic probably beatnik, his father part of the Kenyatta leadership cadre who was really upset. much like Bill Maher, that he Jomo hadn't
'socialized' the economy fast enough. That was Harold Laski's complaint about FDR, something post war Labor government didn't
waste the opportunity of a crisis on. Peter UK, would more readily testify to that. Growing up abroad in an nominally American ally, but a regime suffused with corruption and the lingering antiAmericanism of Sukarno; he picked up on that, his association with Frank Davis didn't help things. His transcripts from Columbia are unclear only Baron and Brezinski stand out;
but maybe the likes of Eric Foner, marxist
historian of the reconstruction period, were
a part. Derrick Bell seems to have sculpted
the legal architecture at Harvard, Wright and Ayers, provided the practicalapplication
of Alinsky's tactics. Khalidi provided another radical perspectives with regards to comparative politics.

McCloud

"Cahill" instead of Cashill, over and over and over. Almost seemed intentional.

centralcal

Amen, Soylent.

PUK, you have a point as well about the timing of the financial "meltdown."

RichatUF

Maybe we are all the same person?

narciso-

You left out Edward Said.

narciso

You know, Rich, I'd him at the back of my mind. A nominal Christian, yet sympathetic to Islamists, not unlike Qutb, Western educated in the manner of Victoria College, yet alienated from the West; yet another role model.

Fresh Air

...not unlike Qutb...

Narciso--

I think you're onto something there. Alienation and narcissism are often related, no?

 Ann

Which would support the theory that Obama is simply a front man.

And explain why Michelle Obama, now the First Lady, is still angry.
Photobucket

She knows he didn't write his books and is, in fact, a fake. Must really gall her to no end that he gets all the admiration. Maybe the NY, Paris trips are to keep her quiet. She obviously agrees with his anti-American carp because she never attends 911 memorials or Memorial Day ceremonies. Can't wait to see what they make her do for the 4th. Any bets?

NJ Jan

I think Obama's reaction to Honduras is very revealing. If anyone is unsure about what his idealogy is, this is certainly a strong clue. Hot Air has a good summary of events, along with the Wall Street Journal. This definitely has Obama coming down on the side of Marxist dictators. Zayala tried to push through a referendum so that he may be re-elected against current term limits a la Chavez. Their Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional and mandated the army to prevent it from happening. Zayala said he would fire the General -- Supreme Court said he can't - again, unconstitutional. Army then a bit over enthusiastically carried SC's order to stop referendum by kicking Zayala out of the country. Their congress is now voting for a new President. Chavez and Cuba are behind Zayala. Our great leader is at their side. Ok to meddle in Honduras, not so much Iran. Yet another jewel in the Obama diplomacy crown.

Old Lurker

Hey NJ Jan. It's great to have you out in the open with us.

BobS

There are so many holes in the Obama resume, so many unknowns, that thinkers whom agree with us on most issues have such a hard time contemplating just how big a fraud has been perpetuated on the American people. I've not read either book in question, but excerpts demonstrate clear leftist ideaology. At any rate, the man remains a mystery as even his presidency is so very opposite from the campaign he ran on.

Danube of Thought

It's pretty clear to me that if God came down tomorrow and informed the world that Barack Obama was actually born in Kenya, and is not a natural-born US citizen, there would be no material consequences at all.

No court would invalidate his election, and none of the people who now believe his nonsense would change their minds.

Ditto if God informed us that Ayers wrote Obama's book. No material consequences.

 Ann

NJ Jan,

Welcome and stick around. This place will keep you thinking, laughing, and hopeful. No matter where you live, this crowd still gets chills when they hear the "Star Spangled Banner." You will never again feel alone in NJ.

Stephanie

Where IS John Denver when you need him???

centralcal

Danube, sadly, I am convinced that you are correct.

NJ Jan

Thanks, Ann. I'm not completely alone in NJ. It's just that we are overwhelmed by the big urban and union vote here. On another note, Bill Ayers found a better way than bombs a long time ago -- our educational system. He has been involved with the educational association that determines the curriculum and textbooks in many universities to educate future teachers. I believe he is their current president. It is an insidious and very effective way to influence and change the dynamics in this country and at this point very hard to overcome.

narciso

That's their problem isn't it Danube, it is ours by extension. In order for this result to come about every tripwire, in the media, in the corporate world, and government had to be 'disengaged', But it's a great thing
that we have this group, of friends who share these common conviction, although different approaches to the same problem.

NJ Jan

Correction to my previous post. Ayers was elected in 2008 to the post of Vice President Curriculum of the American Educational Research Association. The influence is still there.

Frau Roggenbrot

A strange photo taken at an April 2007 Obama fundraiser in New York, showed me that George Soros had found his ticket to the WH. Obama floats above the standing crowd. Uncle Soros sits with his right hand on the stair support, staring ahead at the camera while all others look up to the speaker. the hint of Obama's blue tie corresponds to the dominating blue of Soros' shirt.
http://nymag.com/news/politics/30634/
(cannot do live links yet - sorry)

BobS

Yes, he has Jan. I did some research on a leftist colleague of his last year Mike Klonsky. They are writing curriculum based on lessons involving social justice. However, I truly believe that the Obama presidency will serve as an awakening for American voters. His numbers indicate this is underway now. The ignorance and naivete on Cap and Tax displayed by Obama, democrats and 8 republicans will bite them harder than they imagine. Keep blogging, posting and talking.

NJ Jan

Well, it's bedtime in NJ. Thank you all for being so welcoming and encouraging. I was very nervous about posting. The comments posted by all of you are very analytical and contain strong critical thinking. It was a little intimidating when thing about joining in.

Stephanie

AKA the long march through the institutions...

The Obama presidency is the culmination of 80 years of patience by the communist party.

The question is WHEN O goes for the constitutional I want to stay in power cause the peeps love me (see Chavez, Zelaya, etc), will the people be behind him or against him? Will they see the problem or be the problem? It is no accident that the 52% are being given the freebies that they are...

Is the republican party zombiefied due to the the 52% being given the freebies.. IOW are we just blowing smoke up each other's skirts/shorts here with our talk of stopping them as the coup is done and we are now too late to stop the final push?

The moves that O has made that are clearly outside of constitutional legalities, yet no one has attempted to stop them. The democrats have the republicans on the hill playing "Ohh, Shiny" and deluding themselves that they have an upcoming vote in 2010 or even 2012 to stop this...

Yes I am in a pessimistic mood today. But after O and Clinton fail in Iran and support the Chavez POV in Honduras, they aren't really even keeping it under wraps anymore are they?

Y'all do remember that Chavez is big buds with Ayers and Ayer's "son" whom O supported for his scholarship (I forget which one) and that same "son" is in the employ of Chavez and one of his "architects???"

The chess pieces are coming into alignment and the strategy is getting harder to hide...

Parking Lot

((It is an insidious and very effective way to influence and change the dynamics in this country and at this point very hard to overcome. ))

that's one good thing Ron Paul has going for him ... he and the Mises Institute focus a lot on taking their free market/capitalist message to college kids. I bet a lot of the large crowds of kids that are attracted to Paul's message like it because it suits their spirit of rebellion, being fed up with the tired old boring lefty educational establishement

On the topic of this thread, another scenario that could explain the similarities between 0 and Ayers' writing styles is the possibility that 0 read Ayers' stuff with admiration, and then creatively semi-plagiarized or 'stole' some of Ayers imagery without Ayers being the ghostwriter.

narciso

Yes, Stephanie, Chesa Boudin, for Rhodes scholarship, I recall. Yes the lineup on MTP was not the A team, possibly the C- team, one cannot succumb to dispair,although
some days are harder to consider than others. But that is part of the Alinsky tactics, rules 5 and 12, to flood the zone with so many programs and arguments that many give up. Even Rush seems to be
exhibiting a little of that fatigue.

Ironically on Iran, Taheri points out that those 'sterling moderates' General Safavi, formerly Pasdaran (Revolutionary Guard) commander, and fmr. Defense Min. Admiral
Ali Shamkhani, (who Baer named as a liason with Hb, back in the days he hadn't gone
all 'Scott Ritter' on us)has turned against Khamenei and Ahmadinejad

Soylent Red

I dunno what the tie has to do with anything...

But if you think Soros isn't part of Obama's policy decision matrix, then I just don't know what to tell you.

Ayres and Soros are running all through this Administration.

Parking Lot

OT

I had not heard this great Regina Spektor song until today ... imo it is exceptional

No one laughs at God in a hospital
No one laughs at God in a war
No one´s laughing at God when they´re starving or freezing or so very poor

narciso

This is the piece I was referring too, in the LUN

Stephanie

“But, look, I just think that what we've been doing over the last six months is getting people back into fighting trim. This is a town where there was just a belief that nothing could get done....I'll use just the workout metaphor, and that is, you know, when you start training again and you're pushing your body a little bit harder, sometimes it hurts. But if you keep on at it, after a while your body adjusts. And I think that's what's happening to politics in Washington. Folks have been sitting on the couch for a while, and now they're starting to feel like, hey, you know what, I can run. And that's why we're getting stuff done.”

And what in that quoted text sounds erudite and capable of producing Audacity or Dreams...

"We're getting stuff done." Really presidential level statement there... and the libs said Sarah's speech was too common and juvenile... and this ass is proud of his light bulb moment and of himself for illuminating this for us rubes...

LUN

BobS

I keep remiding myself not to be overwhelmed by the leftist bent of the Obama circle.....Its Democrats and their media sycophants whom also must be talked of in the same context.

glasater

Forgive the interuption and OT but--
Breitbart is tweeting this:

Debbie Rowe allegedly made claims MJ is not the father of her children

Parking Lot

narcisco


I sometimes wonder if every country in the world is split 50-50 over their issues

narciso

Et tu; Andrew, yes, by all means, "stop the presses, that's it I can't stand any more fargin' MJ news, this is a shot of virtual
demerol to the metaphorical parietal lobe

Mark O

I'm not going to read either book. There is not way to prove authorship from these snippets. It's just too much like "Profiles in Courage." That Obama is a immigrant imposter is clear. There will be heavier and convincing evidence of his incompetence any minute now. God bless us in the hands of this shill.

PaulL

Would John "Sex-Tape" Edwards have been a worse AG than Holder?

narciso

It's a close call, Paul, but I'd say no; He was self absorbed, greedy, hypocritical, but
he didn't have this ideological committment as this crew.

Frau Roggenbrot

See Clarice's article at American Thinker about Ayers, social justice and educational debt.

Ayers stated decades ago that the system would have to be changed from the inside, and that's where he's been working since he turned himself in back in 1980. Not quite the thirty years of the Kendall and Gwendolyn Myers but close.

skylights

Cashill is a crackpot, always has been. Look at his other writings--pure tinfoil hat stuff. This is just another conspiracy theory committing the typical conspiracy theory fallacies. Moving along...

Neo

Did anybody consider that perhaps Obama just lifted all that stuff from Ayers book.
Perhaps this explains why he picked Biden for VP

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