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June 29, 2009

Comments

Sue

Wow. Greta was really snarky about Sanford's mistress. I wasn't expecting it. She doesn't do snark very often.

Sue

Ann,

I just read that. It's a good thing the war on drugs is over too.

DrJ

How about the War on Cancer? There's a real nation-state there.

Oh, and Happy Birthday, Verner!

clarice

Did anyone ever suggest Napolitano was smart?

 Ann

Sue,

I believe Ms Napolitano is a Ms Reno mini-me!

 Ann

Didn't Verner say something about traveling soon? I hope she is and having a glorious time.

If not, I hope she is at a country western bar pinching cute cowboys.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, VERNER!

Stephanie

Happy Birthday, Verner! And many more!!!!

DrJ

country western bar pinching cute cowboys

Bumpersticker wisdom: "Save a horse, ride a cowboy."

Pofarmer

"As Krauthammer points out--Zero is aligning himself with Chavez who could take military action against Honduras. It's within the realm of possibility. What would Zero do then?:"

Help Chavez?

Ignatz

--Ignatz:

Don't know whether you checked back or not, but I posted a response to your invitation at the tail end of the Fitness Thread. Loved your comment!--

Hey JMH,
I followed your link and will respond on that thread.
Very similar experiences for me.

Further OT,
CA fish and game has now been reassured we won't be slaughtering any owls or wolverines so logging is close at hand. Won't be posting too much except when I get a chance here and there.
I know I said that before but things look clear now.

Pofarmer

"once the evil doers get power, unde the guise of a "vote" it's hard to get rid of them."

From her lips to God's ears.

cathyf

Happy birthday, verner!!!

(As they say in Winnie the Pooh, "Many happy returns of the day.")

Pofarmer

"CA fish and game has now been reassured we won't be slaughtering any owls or wolverines "

Why not? Wolverines are nasty critters, and you should not be so lucky as to have an owl nest above your combine, man, that's some nasty stuff they eat, and, well, comes out the other end too.

Ignatz


Po,
If they found a wolverine, which may not even exist in CA anymore, on my property I might as well grow a long tin bill and pick chit with the chickens, cause I surely wouldn't be logging in the foreseeable future.
And a Great Grey Owl wouldn't be much better.

And if they found me with a gun in one hand and one of either in the other I'm afraid Bernie and I might be sharing a cell for about the same duration.


Stephanie

Was sitting in the study a few nights ago and looked out on the deck and there, picking out dinner from our koi pond, was an owl about 14-16" tall. It saw me move toward the window and flew away. Wing span of about 3-4 feet. Wondered where the koi were going... we had 14, we now have 9.... and a net over the pond.

sylvia

Well JM Hanes, I don't know what the test consisted of and have no way of knowing that the test accurately reflected the duties of a firefighter. A firefighter should be strong and quick, it's not exactly PH D work.

Now that I'm thinking of it more I'm kind of supporting Sotomayor. I mean come on, who promotes based on skill. Or intelligence. If they promoted on intelligence I'd be CEO somewhere. Most promotions are based on image and social ass kissing skills, and have little to do with ability. Most other jobs don't require tests. Why does this one have to.

So in America, I think people should have the freedom to design any promotion criteria they want. And if they don't like their criteria, they should be able to change it if they want to. I don't see where it says that people hiring cannot use whatever test they want.

Now if the hiring criteria are openly racist, then no they can't use it. But that doesn't include using a different test. But if they give a second test that judges on skin tone say, that might not be acceptable. But since we have not admitted that different races have different abilities in this country, most any test is as good as another test. So it doesn't matter what test is given as long as all can apply and have the same rules and judging criteria. So I see no reason why the firefighter bosses couldn't give another test if they wanted to, as long as the next test was fair. Or a third or a fouth test, whatever.

narciso

Sylvia, you are remarkable and not in a good way. You're practically spamming every thread, with either ignorance, or as with
Neda's death, malicious talking points of the Iranian government. If you don't know about the test, look it up. but don't deny
how the city of New Haven, tried to railroad
these firefighters. One wonders why did they
push for summary judgment and why did Sotomayor so readily accept it.

We know exactly who Obama is, and that's why his coming to power, concerned us so. He's a colleague of Chavez and Ortega and now Zavala; and well you know the phrase about 'birds of a feather'. That was also
one of the reasons that we collectively liked the Governor of Alaska, she could almost intuit that about him, and the consequences of his election. Much like with Central and South America, what could not be won by the force of arms, has been
surrendered through the franchise, and the cooptation of the media.
won b

Janet

The Washington Post headline today reads...
"Justices Rule for White Firemen In Bias Lawsuit"

No mention of the fact that one of the firemen was Hispanic.

They can't have divisions in the liberal victim groups. What if whites and hispanics banded together against blacks?!?!...and in the Lombard story - What if blacks speak out against gay adoptions?!?!

No, the media has decided it is better not to mention certain facts.

clarice

Well, I made a similar error--there were two groups involved. In the promotion list for lieutenant only whites made the grade (test results selecting top three in each test). Using the same criteria for captain those who came out on top included some hispanics. Quickly reading the factual recitation in the opinion in pdf I missed the breakdown of the second group. I'm not sure it was more than that.

AlexinCT

sylvia:"For instance, whites tend to test better in certain ways, such as SAT type tests. Is that type of testing relevant to all situations, where other factors might come into play? I mean what if a black boss decides to give all the apllicants tests on sprinting or basketball dunking ability, and then used that to pick his applicants"

Well, if the job requires people to know how to "sprint and dunk basketballs", then the test would be fair sylvia. Otherwise it is nothing but a rigged test. You are not implying SATs and Fire fighter tests are "rigged" because they attempt to measure needed qualities in candidates applying for specific positions, and that since some candidates seem to do well while others don't, there is a nefarious reason for this?

clarice

More than that--the court detailed the scrupulous efforts of the city to fashion an appropriate test. But if you want to waste time debating with someone who just makes shit up , Alex, be my guest.

sylvia

Yes Clarice, I do make shit up. It's called thinking for myself, and not swallowing every talking point that my conservative blogs tell me to. Which to you is apparently the same thing.

clarice

I invite you to read the opinion which contains pages and pages of information about how the tests were designed and measured to be certain they were appropraite. You nedn't even look at a conservative blog to learn that.

Of course, there appears to shortage of room in your braincage within which to regularly MAKE UP SHIT.

clarice

**No shortage of room****

jimmyk

The other whoppers in Sylvia's post are, first, to neglect to distinguish between private business and the government. It may be reasonable to say that a private business is free to decide on its promotion standards, as its owners will suffer the consequences of bad decisions. But here we have a government using taxpayer dollars, so it is our business. Second, the fact that Sotomayor sided with the city is only a small part of the issue. It's the fact that she and her panel couldn't even bother to confront the issues head on with a full-fledged opinion.

Frankly, I think we're better off with Sotomayor than the next candidate Obama would pick, for a variety of reasons, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be scrutinized and criticized. Maybe there will be an impact on her and on other judges if their actions are held up to the light of day.

JM Hanes

Good grief, sylvia:

"Well JM Hanes, I don't know what the test consisted of and have no way of knowing that the test accurately reflected the duties of a firefighter. A firefighter should be strong and quick, it's not exactly PH D work."

Not only do you know nothing about the test, you clearly don't know anything about firefighting either. Ignorance is a lousy basis for opining. You're got cognitive dissonance down pat, however, if you can support Sotomayor and unfettered promotion criteria at the same time.

sylvia

I confess I am not that interested in this topic and did not bother to look up the test, a fact which I disclosed upfront fully for all to see. So I did not make anything up.

However, that does not take away from my larger points that "tests", no matter how great the test is, are not alway a exact indicator of job skills, and no matter how well they are designed cannot help but be somewhat arbitrary. And my second point is that a business should be able to use or change any criteria they want to, as long as the criteria in and of themselves are not racist. And if they gave a second or a third or 50th test, in which the test itself was not graded in a racist way, that should be okay.

Now whether it was a government outfit might be something to consider, also the technicalities of Sotomayors opinion is a whole other matter which I have no opinion on yet.

"Well, if the job requires people to know how to "sprint and dunk basketballs", then the test would be fair sylvia. Otherwise it is nothing but a rigged test."

See I don't agree with that. If someone wants to give you a basketball dunking test to get a job, it's a free country and no one can stop you. Now whites may not like it, but I doubt there is much they could do about it. On the other hand, if people complain about the basketball dunking test, I see no reason why the bosses could retest in some other way if they wanted to. They are free to do that to.

sylvia

*toO* sheesh.

You should see the shit I can make up about myself.

Well personally I think sylvia's idea about making up your own promotion criteria is pretty remarkable.

Rick Ballard

JMH,

If everyone would use the correct honorific when replying to Sylvia it would establish the proper tone for dealing with her. "Sylvia, you ignorant slut" with appropriate follow through would enliven the threads where she chooses to demonstrate her rather peculiar intellectual acumen.

I love you, sylvia; keep it up.

uh, you missed the misguided bit, which is the problem.

rick

Sylvia,

The test had nothing to do with the physical part of firefighting. It had to do with leadership and administrative knowledge. The job was to be an administrator. That is something that has been determined by tests for years, both in private industry and in the government at all levels. It is about knowledge. That is why the promotion was to be based on this test. The people who passed studied for the test and did well. The others did not. After the test results came out, then the city decided that their fair test, and they went out of their way to have a fair test, was not fair and they, like Lucy, pulled their football away and decided that the people who passed the test would not get the jobs they took the test to win. I really don't see why that is such a difficult thing to see but I realize that those who want to cry discrimination will not see it no matter what you do. Apparently you are one of them.

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