Enhanced Interrogation

Shorter Newsweek - if you ignore the parts of the reports that say that enhanced interrogation was effective you are left unsure as to whether enhanced interrogation was effective.  Keep spin alive!

Stephen Hayes at the Weekly Standard reads the key parts loudly and slowly (with his typewriter) as an aid to the left.

The NY Times has links to the document dump.

Comments

[Original MikeS]

Irrational disregard for the facts.

[bad s##t]

One has to assume the MSM is bright enough to read and then understand the reports as a reason that they are not attacking Cheney.

What are the odds.....

[MayBee]

The way I understand it, we can't be sure the EIT were effective in much the same way we can be sure the economy would have been worse without the stimulus, and Saddam would have lost power without the war.

[bishop]

I have found whether it's Klein, Timulty, Alter, Isikoff, Begley, on any subjects, the facts are inconvenient for them. So they load up the articles with talking points, and diagrams and polls, based on
same, health care, global warming, enhanced
interrogation, doesn't matter the subject

A little OT, here's Krugman, doing an Obama
2001, just last July, which they'll be sure to rationalize away. These are the same people who uncovered Sotomayor's little gaffe:

[MayBee]

Hasn't there long been an argument that although we should have no laws condoning torture, the President would be forgiving of someone who employed it when necessary.

Yet here we are.

[maryrose]

I saw Hadley on Special Report last night and He couldn't convince Juan Williams that helpful info was obtained from the terrorists because Juan kept insisting the info would have been accessible by other means.It's like trying to prove an intangible. Where is the gratitude for saving American lives...

[bishop]

Yeah, that was the McCain position,regarding
the 'ticking time bomb'. That worked out real well. It's funny how there's no nuance
when it comes to the left's bugaboos, war is evil, harms animal and other living things, 'torture' is immoral, energy is
corrupt, and we need more of it, but don't actually go look for it, because as Dear Leader says, 'we'll just put you out of business'

[MayBee]

that's just it, maryrose.

There is a whole alternate world out there, where what what you wanted done that wasn't done, would have worked out exactly the way you imagined.

[Original MikeS]

The average journalist likely has the intellectual capacity to read and understand English. It is the emotional capacity to accept facts, that conflict with their world view, that they lack.

[daddy]

Maryrose,

What I got out of Juan Williams, was that we would now never know if other methods would have worked because we went ahead and "Tortured" which BTW wasn't supposed to work in the first place. Sure it worked, but it made us look like bad guys according to Juan. It's just sad that talking to these guys is like talking to brick walls.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

John McCain can't help himself, he equates the word torture to the brutal and inhuman treatment he received at the hands of our enemies. That is his world. And I don't think it is a world that anyone could ever entirely recover from. But, if his "torture" had consisted of cigar smoke in the face, he'd be laughing about it now.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Oops, hit send too soon.

To equate what was done to McCain and his fellow prisoners to what has been done to the terrorists is demeaning.

[steve sturm]

Echoing sara, McCain was tortured for the amusement of his captors and not to gain information necessary to protect against attack.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

There is a whole alternate world out there, where what what you wanted done that wasn't done, would have worked out exactly the way you imagined.

QOTD.

[Jack is Back!]

Read the report at the NY Times document dump and enjoy the recommendations.

[bad s##t]

Way to go Chaco!! Maybee has a way of really nailing stuff.

[bishop]

That seems to be conclusion of the Cuba Program, according to the LUN, referring
Fernando Vecino Alegret,aka Fidel. There
was a transcript of McCain's interrogation by a Cuban psychologist, that weasel Alex
Cockburn published on his site

[Jack is Back!]

I have a different take on McCain's torture and the other POW's in NV. They were not being tortured for amusement as some have stated but for information and propaganda. Read the book - Honor Bound: The Official History of US Military POW's in Vietnam. Especially read the parts about the Cuban program - where true evil was on display as an experiment in trying out new methods to extract information to be used for propaganda. Also, if Mr. Greenwald was ever a war protestor back in the 70's (which I don't think he is old enough) then he abetted torture just as much as the NV did. The NV used it to get information to feed the anti-war movement led by SDS, Progressive Labor, Weathermen, etc. In fact, Antioch College was the center of the NV and Soviet led disinformation campaign based on information extracted from torture of POW's. So, anytime the Greenwalds or Sullivans of this world bring up torture ask them where do they stand on Vietnam.

One other thing, as ex-military, I am always amused by the sentiment that if we torture we put our service people at risk for the same thing. Well, someone please show me any war and any enemy we have ever fought that did not torture our POW's. Both Germany and Japan were torturers and even mass murderers. And using mustard gas is real torture to those who have to live with the scars on their lungs. When the Sioux scalped 7th Cav soldiers at Little Big Horn were they dead or barely alive?

[matt]

clarice & any other lawyers on;

I need some help. Is there a federal law prohibiting certain agencies (NEA) from lobbying and propagandizing on behalf of legislation? In this case cap & trade and health care?

many thanks;

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Obama on Investigation of CIA: Don't Blame Me, It Was Holder's Call -- By: Andy McCarthy

[bishop]

I saw a Tom Raum article, that used that same spin; as if Obama had nothing to do with it, HSDTTWE,

[Thomas Collins]

That's a great article by McCarthy, Sara(Pal2Pal). I think your link is broken, so I am LUNing the article.

[Jane will cause you pain]

Maryrose,

I kept yelling at my TV: "What other ways Juan? What other ways?"

But he held out on us.

[EBJ]

The 'if we had just used the comfy chair one more time he would have spilled everything' argument is just a re-hash of the Iraq War 'magic wand' argument: if we hadn't invaded we could have used the magic wand to rid Iraq of Saddam.

Republicans need to return the favor on the economy when Obama's media entourage claims Obama saved the world economy. I suggest something like: Dude, the economy always comes back. Every time. If it didn't come back, THAT'S news.

[bad s##t]

The FBI did this in April:

In court papers, Azar said he was denied his eyeglasses, not given food for 30 hours and put in a freezing room after his arrest by "more than 10 men wearing flak jackets and carrying military style assault rifles."

Azar also said he was shackled and forced to wear a blindfold, dark hood and earphones for! up to 18 hours on a Gulfstream V jet that flew him from Bagra! m air base, outside Kabul, to Virginia.

Before the hood was put on, he said, one of his captors waved a photo of Azar's wife and four children and warned Azar that he would "never see them again" unless he confessed.

The left calls this torture. Where are the hysterical cries for an inquisition?

LUN

[matt]

Patrick Courrielche has an incredible story on the new Ministry of Propaganda. This is getting very scary indeed. LUN

[matt]

PS I wrote my own blog on it. I've been studying and acquiring political art for 30 years. This concept is terrifying to me.That Obama would stoop so low indicates his ruthlessness.

[bishop]

Let us not forget, that Hosenball got his start, relaying Agee's outing of US
intelligence officers in the UK.

[Now the moonbats, they are waaaay out there.]

It's a big tent there, Patrick Coureillche; they are putting all us right wing nut jobs there. Hey, it's a big enough tent for one corner to be an art fair.
======================================

[Now the right wingnuts are at least centered, and covered; by the Big Top..]

I'd best like to be a right wing moon bat who used to be a left wing nut job.
==================================

[MayBee]

Wow, thanks!

[Pops]

You really have to blame Bush for this one.

The IG report is very clear, the career prosecutors in the justice department reviewed all these issues years ago and decided not to prosecute in all but one instance.

Now, better, more decent people are in charge and of course they need to re-investigate everything that was investigated and prosecute as required.

Bush could have put a stop to this years ago and failed, its all his fault.

All he had to do when he came into office in 2001 was investigate, arrest and prosecute Eric Holder for his actions in the Marc Rich case.

Then he easily could have convicted at least a dozen high level Clinton appointees for failing to take necessary actions to protect the country against the Sept 11th attacks. These include things like Janet Reno and Jamie Gorelick's wall of separation between the FBI and Intelligence.

In short, I blame Bush.

If he had prosecuted Holder in 2001, he wouldn't be AG today.

Hopefully the next Republican President will wise up and immediately start investigating Eric Holders' actions as AG when they take office.

[Pops]

Reading about the so-called torture these terrorists endured is sooo laughable. It makes me think the CIA operatives watched old episodes of Mission Impossible. They didn't torture people, the tricked terrorists into thinking they might be tortured without ever actually engaging in it.

I can just imagine one of these high level guys escaping and going back to his cave and his buddies asking about the horrors he endured.

Oh yes, it was terrible, a gun went off in the room next to mine, a guy I thought might be dead was laying in a hallway.....They showed me a gun!

Ohh the horror. Meanwhile his friends released from a Pakistani prison would be showing off the beaten feet, their severed fingers, their sliced tongues etc.

Note to HVTs, things that scare ACLU weenies are not going to scare your comrades.

[But, my God, look what they got when they tried for once.]

Read David Ignatius in the WaPo and weep. The CIA will no longer recover intelligence by interrogating, and apparently hasn't been eager to do so for awhile.

[Sue The Skinny Bastard]

This is going to backfire on Obama. Nothing in the report was unknown. Except the information we obtained. The country is no longer in the mood to prosecute Bush. They never were or Pelosi would have kicked up the impeachment hearings when dems won in 07. She had to promise no impeachment for dems to win, if you will remember.

When the unwashed masses see a terrorist that Obama released back in the news behind or in the middle of a terrorist attack while CIA agents are being prosecuted, they will revolt.

Obama will regret this.

[Extraneus]

Obama will regret this.

Good point, you skinny bastard. And it's a good thing Cheney still has Secret Service protection, because he'll fry their asses if it happens while he's still around.

[Soylent Red]

There is a whole alternate world out there, where what what you wanted done that wasn't done, would have worked out exactly the way you imagined.

I really had an eye opening experience during the flameout with The Date the other night. Simple, indisputable facts could not be used in arguments because she just couldn't believe they were true. I pinned her down on how she came to know what she thought she knew about things, and she told me that for her they were true because she really felt they were right, and shouldn't that count for something?

Jeez. This is not an un-educated person here. I have a brother-in-law who is of a similar mind (except that he trots out HuffPo dispatches as evidence). These people simply cannot be reasoned with because even when confronted with overwhelming evidence, they simply choose not to believe.

Which leads me to the gloomy thought I just posed to my oldest sister: If facts don't matter in how some people view the world, and if those same people think they have the right to make decisions for the rest of us based on their fact-free way of looking at things, when they come into power are we not at a place where we either embrace insanity or declare discussion to be over?

I just don't know how we get these people back to reality.

[bishop]

That's all well Pop. but who wouldprosecute,
Comey, Fitzgerald, please, Ashcroft was forced to recuse himself for fairly ridiculous reasons. Thompson, flubbed up the
campaign finance investigations, which would be considered prologue for all this.
They always find a Richardson, a Walsh, they wanted a Fisk, they ended up with Starr
and look what they did to him

[Told you so]

"We cannot specify which EIT made al Nashiri more willing to provide more information."

Hmmm. That is the usual scatatology, and anal-gazing by the typical JOMer.

"provided information that helped lead to the arrests"

'Helped' lead to arrests is kinda like the average food supplement or pharmaceutical
described 'may help alleviate some symptoms'

I'll swallow that as a clear remedy with
no equivocation.

"So set aside the so-called Cheney memos"

So-called, eh?

"Strikingly, they provide little evidence for Cheney’s claims that the “enhanced interrogation” program run by the CIA provided valuable information. In fact, throughout both documents, many passages — though several are incomplete and circumstantial, actually suggest the opposite of Cheney’s contention: that non-abusive techniques actually helped elicit some of the most important information the documents cite in defending the value of the CIA’s interrogations.

The first document, issued by the CIA in July 2004 is about the interrogation of 9/11 architect Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times in March 2003 and whom, the newly released CIA Inspector General report on torture details, had his children’s lives threatened by an interrogator. None of that abuse is referred to in the publicly released version of the July 2004 document. Instead, we learn from the July 2004 document that not only did the man known as “KSM” largely provide intelligence about “historical plots” pulled off from al-Qaeda, a fair amount of the knowledge he imparted to his interrogators came from his “rolodex” — that is, what intelligence experts call “pocket litter,” or the telling documentation found on someone’s person when captured. As well, traditional intelligence work appears to have done wonders — including a fair amount of blundering on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s part:"

But, then, you know, Stephen Hayes was Cheney's personal biographer. Maybe he's a little too close to the story.

http://washingtonindependent.com/56344/cia-documents-provide-little-cover-for-cheney-claims

[Told you so]

BTW;

Stephen;

They are called the Cheney Torture Memos.

[Let's interrorgoreate Big Al.]

Remember, SR, faith is a virtue; reason has its limits, and it's a good thing, too.
========================================

[Pofarmer]

Soylent, I think it's the same problem with Liberals who absolutely cannot understand why a 2 TRILLION dollar deficit is bad. Can't understand that the costs to service this debt are going to become astronomical. Can't understand that this is PRECISELY what collapses govts.

[bishop]

KSM, is someone who could cold bloodedly plan the deliberate death of tens of thousands of civilians, survived 183 pours,
and doesn't seem worse for wear. A chat session was not going to work on him. They have not been able to get many quality replacements for long, as a tactitian, Abu Hamza Rabia (deceased)Abu Ubeyda al Masri,
(deceased)Marmalard , well you get the picture

[Ignatz]

--There is a whole alternate world out there, where what you wanted done that wasn't done, would have worked out exactly the way you imagined.--

We've finally identified cleo's home planet.

[Tail gunner]

I would like to know what events are planned in Wash DC this weekend for healthcare debate.

Is there an 'open-carry' law on the books in the District?

I hear there's some organizing at this site.

Is that true?

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Hey Told You So, do you seriously think anyone thinks you give a rat's a$$ about the scumbag terrorists for any other reason than a childish political one and a hatred of all things Bush/Cheney?

I'm so sick of leftist hypocrisy.

[Bloodluster]

Torture advocates. Gun afficionados.(You know, the FREEDOM loving type)

I love this place.

[DEXTER]

Cheney only tortured bad guys

[Pofarmer]

OH, good, the idiot brigade has arrived.

[Original MikeS]

...are we not at a place where we either embrace insanity or declare discussion to be over?

Hell Soylent. They've declared the discussion over because we won't embrace their insanity!

[pagar]

I just don't know how we get these people back to reality.

I can't even figure out how to have a normal conversation with them. Nothing they say makes sense. It's like every logical thing they ever learned has been replaced by no meaningful information. The only way I can keep my blood pressure down is to stay completely away from them, once I find out that they believe that stuff.

[matt]

I think with some of the stuff Obama is doing he is going to enter impeachable offense territory very soon. The thing with the NEA stinks to high heaven and there seem to be patterns of illegality emerging with some of the proposed and existing legislation.

Is it possible for a Federal prosecutor to act completely independently? Speaking of which what ever happened to Fitzgerald and Rezko?

[billy bob]

"I can't even figure out how to have a normal conversation with them. Nothing they say makes sense."

dont i know it. they can't understand that when you torture a sub-human like a terrorist, its not really torture. We are doing them a favor, since they want to die anyway. i get so mad when liberals cry and moan about the rule of law and the constytuition. it was written a long time ago and things change in the world. we have to change with it

[Soylent Red]

You know what really drives me crazy?

That Obama is a Muslim.

(sound of footsteps quickly receding away, door slamming, and squealing tires.)

BTW-WTF is a "constytuition"? Is that where my right to a free college education is written?

[Semanticleo]

Aren't I brilliant when I mock how I imagine you wingerz talk? You can't fool me with yer fake wit when yer ganging up on me just like those engineers and accounting students used to do and make me feel stupid by, you know, getting the right answers on tests and not recognizing my semantic brilliance. I just go to my happy place and plot with my imaginary son how to get back at you.

[Extraneus]

TM apparently got a link somewhere smelly.

[Rob Crawford]

*sigh* You really are an ignorant piece of shit, aren't you?

they can't understand that when you torture a sub-human like a terrorist, its not really torture.

It wasn't torture because none of the acts rose to the level of torture as defined by any law or treaty applicable to the US.

i get so mad when liberals cry and moan about the rule of law and the constytuition. it was written a long time ago and things change in the world. we have to change with it

The "living Constitution" bullcrap is lefty tripe. Conservatives hold the Constitution to have a set meaning.

Now, conservatives do happen to believe the rule of law is critical. As it happens, the rule of law includes the idea of not prosecuting people for acts which are not illegal. The people being drug into the latest round of show trials have already had their actions reviewed by the Department of Justice, which concluded they broke no laws and thus were not subject to prosecution.

[Original MikeS]

...they can't understand that when you torture...

They don't seem to understand that words have a fixed meaning. The word "torture" like most of the words we use were defined long before "W" was elected.

[bishop]

No, you have no understanding of how we talk
or think, you're like a stone Leo, nothing ever gets through to you; no matter how long you're here.

Ignatius, is too smart to be writing this garbage. He doesn't think there are deadly
consequences to the inability to intercept
such plots. The world seems dangerously close to the picture that McCarry sketched out thirty years ago. With the exception I don't see anything like the Foreign Intelligence Service, rising in its place.

[Pofarmer]

One other thing I don't get, is the Libs just spent 8 years HATING the Fed guvt, under Bush, and now they are ready to give over their health care to it? What happened to "keep your hands off my body?"

[Rob Crawford]

One other thing I don't get, is the Libs just spent 8 years HATING the Fed guvt, under Bush, and now they are ready to give over their health care to it? What happened to "keep your hands off my body?"

Oh, their irrationality knows no bounds. The Democrats wanted every container coming into the US to be inspected, but threw a hairy fit when they heard that some phone calls crossing US borders were listened to -- despite the fact that the circumstances involved are identical. They could either grant that the US has the authority to inspect incoming packages including communications, or deny the same, but not grant it in one case and deny it in another.

They threw tantrums over the idea that a law enforcement official could subpoena the library records of a suspect, yet now want the government to not just have access to, but control over, every detail of your health! Oh, and the House bill includes granting them instant access to your bank accounts in order to prove you can pay your medical bills!

In the end, I think, for the left it comes down to the ends of a given policy. If the ends is to increase the freedom of Americans by decreasing that of those who would kill them or otherwise prey upon them, then they're against it. If the end is to decrease the freedom of Americans by regulating their lives, then they're for it.

[Jim Ryan]

One other thing I don't get, is the Libs just spent 8 years HATING the Fed guvt, under Bush, and now...

Indeed.

[Pofarmer]

If the ends is to increase the freedom of Americans by decreasing that of those who would kill them or otherwise prey upon them, then they're against it. If the end is to decrease the freedom of Americans by regulating their lives, then they're for it.

It's been even simpler than that. If Bush was for it, they were against it. It wasn't Bush who pushed the Partisanship to 11.

[Jim Ryan]

Oh, I see bad had that story already.

[Jane will cause you pain]

"I can't even figure out how to have a normal conversation with them. Nothing they say makes sense."

Try doing it on the radio. For the second time this week Dick accused Karl Rove of outing valerie Plame. When I corrected him he said I was entitled to my opinion. I told him he was not entitled to make up facts.

They just make things up to fit their prejudices.

[Melinda "The Lone Drinker" Romanoff]

Po-

That was Nixon, FAR more important back then.

And, you've got mail. That Canadian slant is way, way more important now, in my opinion. Not Commerce.

[Pofarmer]

Just perusing the housing numbers for kicks.

New housing sales up 9.6% from last month, but still down 13.5% from a year ago. Existing home sales up 5% from a year ago but prices overall down 15%. New construction decling, and down 35% from a year ago, new Permits down 40%.

[clarice]

Jane, Tell Dick that I will bet him $100 that Armitage was Novak's source and if he won't take that bet he'd better not accuse Rove of outing Plame again.

[Melinda "The Lone Drinker" Romanoff]

clarice-

that bet is covered. and Jane, consider that bet raised to $500, but bait him with the opening by clarice. I'll cover them.

With what he wont take (none, I expect), I'll put towards lunch on the 12th, since I can't be there. Alcinor's place, I hope.

[Melinda "The Lone Drinker" Romanoff]

I hope you're not offended, but that one was irresistible. And I will back it up, as always.

[clarice]

Why would I be offended? I've no idea, however, what Alcinor's place is.

[Has the CIA festered into an appendix of history? Or a vault?]

Both win; I believe both Rove and Armitage were Novak's sources, but Novak was the source for Rove with a tweener. I don't think he realized it, but Novak's source with Rove was actually feedback from his own buzz.

Do you suppose that Novak didn't recognize the man on the street? That he may never have known? If he knew, why didn't he say, or why doesn't he say, posthumously?
==============================

[maryrose]

I just wonder how this administration's numbers can continually be so far off the mark. They were off by two trillion. A guest on Cavuto said every American has to really understand what a trillion dollars really adds up to be in true cost. I remember Bush's tax cuts were less because of deficit concerns. It all goes back to that bloated stimulus package. Boondogle projects where no one appears to be working.

[clarice]

You "believe", Dick "believes"--how special/ Novak and Armitage however confirm Armitage was Novak's source for the story that Plame picked Wilson for the trip--the you should pardon the expression {"outing" of Plame.

[Pofarmer]

"I just wonder how this administration's numbers can continually be so far off the mark. They were off by two trillion. "

That's not the half of it. WSJ had a story today, I only heard about second hand saying that their base line tax assumptions are waaayyyyy off, possibly to the tune of another 4 trillion plus.

[boris]

The more liberal goodies they can stuff into government the more they will say "You can't elect any Republicans or they'll take your goodies away!".

It will justify defending the liberal establishment from destructive Republicans by any means necessary.

[RichatUF]

Pofarmer-

I can top that. 14 Trillion over 10 years.

I see a large tax increase next year regardless of how much more of Obama's agenda gets passed.

[Strawman Cometh]

We're into advanced OT here, so I'll mention that I heard or read somewhere recently about a resurrection of a story I had seen previously back in 2004. That "W" had volunteered for Nam , but that the jets he had trained on at TANG were no longer in demand in theater.

[bgates]

That "W" had volunteered for Nam

But he hadn't seen combat. It was very important back then to have a Commander-in-Chief who had the moral authority derived from combat service. You have to remember, there was a war going on in 2004. It was bad for morale to have a President who had never managed to do anything more dangerous than flying mid-60s era military jets.

[Strawman Cometh]

But where have I heard this recently?

[clarice]

Bernie Goldberg plowed thru the report of the CBS investigators and found out that Mapes knew that Bush had volunteered and neverteless went ahead (along with Dan) to put on the 60 minutes Lucy rameriz fake documents,SC.

[Strawman Cometh]

Yes, Clarice, seems like a big story, but I only heard it once. Why is that?

[caro]

Matt, thanks for that link to Big Hollywood and the NEA question. I couldn't agree more. It IS scarey. The week before the election I got an email from the woman who owns the gallery I show in telling all the artists they should vote for Obama because he supported the NEA and the arts in general. I was incensed and shot back an email telling her to stick to selling art. I realized that I was putting our relationship and my sales at risk now that I was out of the closet. That is a threatening situation, like putting your job on the line. Since I also show at art festivals I am meeting the public and you would probably not be amazed at how many people make inappropriate political comments to me assuming that I am a wacky liberal because I am an artist.

[caro]

When this woman came into my booth in Sausalito last Labor Day I hugged her.

[glasater]

Strawman-

'Cause the left wing liberal media did not want the W story told is why.

Hope your son is doing well.

[glasater]

Good for you Caro!!

I've peeled off all photog associates who have/had BDS and haven't looked back.
Fortunately it was just a couple of folks:)

[caro]

And, Matt, about the legality of all these actions by the O administration, doesn't it "feel" like the laws just don't apply to them?

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I see a large tax increase next year regardless of how much more of Obama's agenda gets passed.

There are going to be a lot of people below that infamous $250,000 mark who are going to have a massive shock when the Bush tax cuts expire. Talk about raising taxes.

[caro]

Yup, glas, we are in the same boat.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Yes, Clarice, seems like a big story, but I only heard it once. Why is that?

Because you aren't very well informed is my guess. The info has been out there in published form for over ten years.

[Ann]

Caro, God Bless You!

Thomas Collins and Matt, on different threads, referred to that scary hair raising link and if you haven't read it please do here: Big Government NEA

Here is another scary link on the FCC:

Inspired by Saul Alinsky, FCC 'Diversity' Chief Calls for ‘Confrontational Movement’ to Give Public Broadcasting Dominant Role in Communications

I have always been optimistic that the American people would never stand for what is happening today, and they are waking up but is it to late?

Today, local radio in Columbus, Ohio at the top and bottom of the hour reported that the Cash for Clunkers program was such a success that it came in under budget. I am not kidding and it was all day long. The enemy is already at the gates.

[matt]

at this point we need to have the force of law on our side. It would seem Fitzgerald has disappeared into the woodwork. I find it strange and disconcerting.

The president's first and one of his closest advisers caught in a corruption scandal a hair's breadth from the sitting president with a massive question mark over a land deal with the president, and then nothing for 7 months.Perhaps he is making his case, but Rezko has been dangling for that time as well. Unusual.

And what dark secrets does Blagojevich have under his rock? Where did that one go? They were quick to indict, but where is that case, and why isn't the Chicago press on it?

Illinois politics is as corrupt as it gets and it has become obvious that the president, Emmanuel, and their cronies have been in it up to their eyeballs. Look at their current actions. They are skating on very thin ice.

[the jew bear]

"*sigh* You really are an ignorant piece of shit, aren't you?"

Well im just a good ol boy from Tennessee and
i don't like Nazis or terrorists, so i thump 'em with the butt of my bowie when i see em.

i will carve a swastika in your head if i see you in an oakie bar.

[caro]

Ann, thanks. I think Rush was on with Glenn Beck today to talk about the FCC issues. I didn't see it but maybe someone can report. I hate NPR.

[Ann]

Sara (Pal2Pal),

I have to point out that Strawman Cometh just went through a life and death situation with his son, so maybe you should be a little kinder in your well informed-ness comment.

You wouldn't ask for less!

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Ann: He asked the question why he only heard about a big story once and I gave him an answer. I'm sorry to hear about his son, but see nothing in answering his question that would prompt your post. I didn't speculate on why he had only heard once, I made a guess at what to me seemed the most logical answer. Was I wrong?

[Ann]

Caro,

You can listen to it here:
RUSH on Glenn Beck

I think Glenn Beck deserves a medal of freedom award for his bravery in documenting the outrages in this administration. I also fear for his liberty in doing so. If you think the treatment of Joe the Plumber and Palin were bad just watch what they will do to a conservative patriot that admits to being a alcoholic.

Let us just say he won't get the Ted Kennedy treatment of Saint America.

[Dave (in MA )]

"*sigh* You really are an ignorant piece of shit, aren't you?"

Well im just a good ol boy from Tennessee and
i don't like Nazis or terrorists, so i thump 'em with the butt of my bowie when i see em.

i will carve a swastika in your head if i see you in an oakie bar.

"Yes" would have been easier to type than all of that.

[caro]

Ann, the replay is on Fox now and it is chilling.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Ann: I think Beck calls himself a libertarian, not a conservative.