Memeorandum


Powered by TypePad

« An Emerging Centrist Risky Health Care Scheme | Main | And Good Luck To You... »

August 06, 2009

Comments

Danube of Thought

Cast your vote on the obviously Kenyan president's second 100 days in the CNN poll. LUN. The results are quite fascinating--somebody let me know if they ever put them on the air.

Danube of Thought

"...a conspiracy to document Obama as natural-born was launched by his advisers and supporters following his election to the Senate..."

Imagine the conspirators' delight when they stumbled across those two 1961 newspaper announcements. What great good fortune!

Doodad Pro

But if he has been covering it up for years, would that really not change your sense of the man?

No it would confirm my sense of the man.

Danube of Thought

All orders issued, and legislation signed, by Chester A. Arthur are now null and void.

clarice

Everything counts only when it's convenient to those people.

Extraneus

Yay!

(I always hated the Chinese Exclusion Act.)

Neo

As I understand it, the argument here is that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, but that his mother said he was born in the United States and even had relatives lie to that effect. Presumably, she also told young Barack that he was born in Hawaii. The big reveal here is...what?

This seems to have missed the real elephant in the room ... you have to be a "natural born" citizen to be eligible to be President of the United States.
Has the US Constitution now become so much a "living" document that it has now been given an abortion ?

Mark O

Could I see by a show of hands how many are off their meds this morning?

Tom Maguire

Could I see by a show of hands how many are off their meds this morning?

Would you settle for a show of fingers? (Ahh, I should have fought the feeling...)

Extraneus

I think The Mobfather (Rush) just crashed Sweetness & Light. (Linked from his site re: Nazi character of Obama health-care logo.)

Porchlight

So let me see if I have this right. People say the birthers are nuts because evidence says Obama was born in the US, therefore he is a natural-born citizen. QED.

Their argument has not been "it doesn't matter where he was born," it is "he was born in HI so he is a natural-born citizen. And this Kenya nonsense is insane."

But now comes Ezra Klein to say that even if Obama wasn't born in the US, it still doesn't matter.

So if it turns out he was born in Kenya after all, would the people who shouted down the birthers then turn around and argue that it actually doesn't matter whether he's a natural-born citizen? And if so, why did any of them bother fighting the birthers' claim in the first place?

Talk about moving goal posts.

PeterUK

"But I'd like to see them asked why it matters whether Obama was born in Honolulu or on a brief overseas trip? How is the future of our republic affected by the truth of that matter? Should the significant majority of Americans who voted for Obama be denied their choice of president because of an utterly trivial matter of historical happenstance?"

If it is so trivial,then why is Obama obfuscating and fudging the issue.Surely that it is the most important thing? If Obama is less than candid about this trivial thing,what is he going to be like on matters of great import?

Mark O

"Would you settle for a show of fingers? (Ahh, I should have fought the feeling...)"

Of course. But, if can make your conspiracy point with just one, tell me why you would need two.

Maybe I'm just forgetting this:

Every little thing the reflex does leaves you answered with a Question mark.

Rage on against the dying of this light.


Porchlight

Every little thing the reflex does leaves you answered with a Question mark.

LOL, good one. I had to think about it for a minute before I could ID it.

Mark O

"if *you* can make.

Hell, I'm in enough trouble without leaving "you" out.

Thomas Collins

In another "you couldn't make this up" circumstance, Chester Alan Arthur, it was claimed by some, was born in Dunham Flats, Canada. I knew questions had been raised about Arthur's place of birth, but I hadn't realized that his alleged place of birth in Canada shared a name with Obama's mother. See LUN.

Sue

the day will come when Obama is no longer President

So you say. I hear otherwise.

Mary Jo

"the day will come when Obama is no longer President"

I have been hearing that about Fidel Castro since I was 5.

Porchlight

Obama's Presidential Library will actually be sealed off from the public. But officials there will be able to confirm or deny what's on the documents if Obama or Rahm says it's okay.

Danube of Thought

I await the first shred of evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.

matt

can we please have the Jesuits and Talmudic scholars over here please; Lubovitchers to the far right, please....

and you marxists, anarchists, syndicalists, socialists and Fabians over here? Psychiatrists place yourselves randomly among all parties and exchange meaningless theories at will.

Right, when I say "go" start arguing. Today's topic is how many angels are on the head of a pin...ready, set, Go!

see? the new Tower of Babel!

memomachine

Hmmmm.

1. "That said, the discovery of two contemporaneous birth announcements did take the wind out of those sails (I hope...)"

A. A newspaper notice isn't precisely the best evidence of anything. Obama could still have been born in Kenya while the happy grandparents put out the notice of his birth.

B. The address listed in the notices are for whom? His parents or grandparents?

C. It isn't uncommon for people living overseas to list important events in their hometown newspapers.

2. If it isn't a big deal then why did the MSM make a big production of McCain coughing up his cert?

sam

"I await the first shred of evidence that Obama was born in Kenya."

It's in the birth certificate, ask Obama to release it.

Sue

2. If it isn't a big deal then why did the MSM make a big production of McCain coughing up his cert?

Good grief. That is so simple I'm surprised you even put a question mark after it. He's. A. Republican.

I am thinking of quitting my day job to be a fulltime poet

I await
The first shred
Of
Obama's
Long form

sylvia

The only problem I have with this theory is, under which documentation did Obama fly back to the US? I was reading up that, all people, including infants, need a passport. I would assume it was the same in 1961. If Obama was born in Kenya, he would have needed a US or a Kenyan passport. To get a passport here, you need a birth cert, and other paper work, signatures of both parents, etc, it is not a small process.

Do we think it's possible that Obama's parents got all that taken care of in such a short fashion and flew Obama back here in time for Dunham to start school in Washington state shortly after? Wouldn't there be a paper trail on that passport application somewhere?

Another thing, where are the pictures of Obama being born in Kenya? And the relatives posing with the proud new parents? Surely some of them would have gotten out in his childhood before he ran for office. Unless the grandparents were hush hush about that too to cover it up and destroyed them, so that could cut both ways.

No if we are to go with this theory, it would make the most sense that Obama was born in Canada, which would be closer to Seattle and easier to sneak Obama back across the border in a car. Perhaps they had cheaper health care back then for Dunham who ran away from her disapproving parents and decided to give birth on her own?

Appalled

I feel after reading your posting TM like the AFLAC mascot walking away from the barbershop after encountering Yogi Berra talking about "that insurance". (If you've seen the ad, you know what I mean; if you haven't...wish I could find a more accessible way to put it.)

If you feel this whole debate is useful because its symbolic about Obama's "lack of transparency" about his past, then I wonder if you've been smoking what it looks like Obama's smoking a couple of posts down. Because it looks, from this centrist perspective, that the discussion is about how Obama is really not a "natural born" citizen, how he's somehow an alien, and how he is somehow not constitutionally fit to be president. In other words, the discussion is that Obama is not fit to be President because of circumstances surrounding his birth make him not really an American.

TM -- I am not going to make the accusation frequently applied to people who question the fitness and natural-born Americaness of a non-white American. But given the obsession of some with this issue, yu cannot be surprised when others do it.

I'm willing to engage on questions on the facts of issue -- simply because, as a mystery reading fanatic -- this sort of stuff interests me. But I don't think concentrating on the issue leads anywhere good for the Republican party.

sylvia

Another thing about the pictures. There are no pictures I have seen from Obama before the age of two. None in Hawaii or Kenya. So either I just haven't seen them somehow or they don't exist publicly. Now why is that?

Could Dunham have been dating some other guy at that time who lived in Seattle? Perhaps he was the one who posed with a newborn Obama. And then Dunham destroyed those pics because she wanted to Obama to think she had a happy relationship with Obama Sr.? I don't know, but something strange there too.

Now I had a previous theory that Obama Sr. was not the father, but if that were the case, would Dunham name her child after a stranger? I doubt it. But with Dunham, you never know.

Porchlight

I await the first shred of evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.

Well, his grandmother says he was born there. I don't know if that counts as evidence or not. I know I don't find it credible.

PeterUK

" But I don't think concentrating on the issue leads anywhere good for the Republican party."

Wow! Is JOM the entire Republican Party? I'd better clean up my act!

Ric Locke

No, Sylvia, back in those days (and up until very recently) the rule in most countries, including the US, was something like at least one passport per family. Teh Patriarchy, y'know -- if Daddy had a passport the kids didn't need one, and Mommy could get away with being without.

But Our Host is correct, as usual: the correct comparison is with the Bush AWOL "controversy". The demand goes out for documentation. The documentation is supplied, and the demanders insist that it's not good enough and loudly demand more. Eventually one side or the other produces a forgery, which the Troofers insist is totally valid and the critics dismiss.

There is one salient difference. Bush signed an Executive Order requiring everybody in the Executive Branch and/or under the orders of the Commander in Chief to release any relevant records. Obama has already spent something like a million bucks for lawyers trying to prevent any release.

Regards,
Ric

Appalled

PUK:

I think you qualify as a Tory through accident of birth. (Though I don't have the certificate, so I'm not sure. For all I know, you could be French.)

Danube of Thought

The media didn't create any stir about McCain's birth certificate--there was never any question raised about his birthplace. There was a minor flap about whether, having been born in the Canal Zone, he was a natural-born citizen. Some fool even filed a lawsuit, but it was dismissed.

So...the evidence of Obama's Kenyan birth is in his Hawaiian birth certificate? And the two state officials who say otherwise are part of the conspiracy?

PeterUK

French? How passe!
I'm not a Tory I'm a liberal anarchist. Anarchos, without leader. We are all too grown up to need parent substitutes.

Danube of Thought

TM, if the theory that the family phonied up the records makes sense to you, then I take it you believe he wasn't born in Hawaii. Why do you believe that?

PeterUK

"And the two state officials who say otherwise are part of the conspiracy?"

No,they just tell you what is on file,like any bureaucrat.In all probability they were dribbling in their bibs when the document was lodged.

Danube of Thought

Show me a brief written by an Obama lawyer opposing the release of his birth certificate.

sam

"TM, if the theory that the family phonied up the records makes sense to you, then I take it you believe he wasn't born in Hawaii. Why do you believe that?"

No, I personally believe that he is hiding the circumstances of his birth. Which may include the fact that he was born elsewhere other than the prevalent myth.

sam

You don't even know under what name his birth was recorded, if it was, in Hawaii.

Was it Malcolm X?

Ric Locke

Show me a brief written by an Obama lawyer opposing the release of his birth certificate.

No, Danube, we're working to Rather Rules. I've made the assertion. You have to prove it's false.

Regards,
Ric

Danube of Thought

Just to refresh the record:

"HONOLULU -- State officials in Hawaii on Monday said they have once again checked and confirmed that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen, and therefore meets a key constitutional requirement for being president.

"Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said she hoped to end lingering rumours about Obama's birthplace.

"'I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen,' she said in a brief statement. 'I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.'"

A conspiracy so vast...

Heh, I took a day job so I could quit being a full-time poet.

Obama was born
In America, he says.
How can he prove it?

sam

"Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said she hoped to end lingering rumours about Obama's birthplace....

Why? What's it to her? If Obama doesn't care about the "lingering rumors" why should she?

Ignatz

I think it might be a good idea for Republicans/conservatives/libertarians who aren't libertarians because they like porn and dope to concentrate on their answer to a growing economy next year.
Despite Barry's best efforts I suspect he may be in a sweet spot as the economy naturally rebounds. Talking about unemployment and recession won't work if they're going in the right direction next summer. Talking about his BC will do even less.
Deficits, taxes and freedom are what count. Let's stick to them.
If the Bergs and Taitzs of the world turn up something embrrassing by some unknown method fine, as I have advocated the whole time, but mainstreaming this with little or no evidence seems like a grenade in one's pocket without a pin.

Oh, well; can't force the muse.

Here come the judges.
Kenya hear the whistle blow?
Obie blow your horn.

Danube of Thought

"Why? What's it to her? If Obama doesn't care about the 'lingering rumors' why should she?"

And until she explains why she came forward with her statement, there can be no conclusion but that she is in on the plot.

Vitals Records, huh?  Testimonials from doting Grammas?

Heh, she didn't say birth certificate, now, did she? And adding this isn't going to stop the rumours anymore than what she said 8 months ago did.

Were you an 'opposing' advocate, in court, you would be attacking the credibility of such parsing. We have heard a number of carefully constructed statements from Hawai'an officials, some of them contradictory. What we haven't seen is an authentic, long form, vault copy, birth certificate.

Danube of Thought

Ignatz, I have no doubt that the economy will have gone to show positive GDP growth, quite possibly as soon as the current quarter, and very likely by the end of this year. But most voters care much more about unemployment numbers than GDP, and these days they care about deficits.

And remember, Obama won't be on the ballot. I see big GOP gains in the House.

Vitals Records, huh?  Yep, vitally important records.  And how long has Obama known this?

She, and the commenter, think she settles it with that statement about vital records, but she's just poured gasoline on the issue. Now, when it would have been much more convincing to say 'birth certificate' instead of 'vital records', in a statement meant to convince, why did she not say it. Was she afraid of ultimate perjury charges.

It's not hard to believe that she's just confirmed that there is no birth certificate on file. That's not saying that there isn't one, only that she hasn't said so. And if there were one, why wouldn't she say so?

Now I recognize that I may well be overinterpreting it all. But do any of you seriously believe that the public statements of Hawai'ian officials aren't gone over with a fine tooth comb, by experts at parsing?

Danube of Thought

"Was she afraid of ultimate perjury charges."

Doubtful, since she wasn't under oath. All the more reason to be suspicious...

So there's a "vital record" that shows Obama was born in Hawaii, but somewhere there's a birth certificate that shows he was born somewhere else, and the somewhere else is definitely outside the US, probably Kenya.

If I were an attorney arguing in court I would enter the certification in evidence and move for summary judgment.

Did he decide a long time ago to lie about it, or more recently?  What did he know and when did he know it?

In their courtship, their copulation, their reproduction and in their relationship, this couple pushed the envelope of 'normal' behaviour. I'm supposed to believe the authorities weren't lied to about the circumstances of Obama's origin?

Really, they missed the boat. If he was actually born in Hawai'i, the true story may well be a wonderful one about his resilience. So why can't the truth be told?

Tom Maguire

Wow! Is JOM the entire Republican Party? I'd better clean up my act!

Too late - I already filed my report with the RNC and, for good measure, flagged you to the new White House office in charge of hazy argumentation.

Quit supporting it, DoT; He, they, and the COLB are fraudulent.

Double heh. At the rate doubts about Obama are rising, the Republican gains would be even greater than they are now if Obama were to be on next year's ballot.

Hey, it'll be about time for a do over anyway. How are the Repubs chances with Hillary on the ballot?

clarice

What's "hazy augmentation" botched liposection?

Could she breathe past the barrier to speech?

Is this why he 'Killed Granny'?

Danube of Thought

October, 2008 statement by the same Dr. Fukino:

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

There's that sneaky "vital records" again.

(Dr. Fukino is a GOP contributor, which makes the scope of the conspiracy all the more alarming.)

Tom Maguire

TM, if the theory that the family phonied up the records makes sense to you, then I take it you believe he wasn't born in Hawaii.

Hmm, is the scientific method that poorly understood? The theory that he *was* born in Hawaii also makes perfect sense to me, and as I posted days back, strikes me as the much more likely scenario.

Since some potentially important evidence, namely the long form certificate and supporting documentation, is not available, I am not sure how or why I am supposed to come to a faith-based conclusion.

As to the family conspiracy - I am very comfortable with the motive (and without motive it is harder to explain a conspiracy or much else of human affairs); I am very hazy on the mechanics of how they might have done it, and what their travel plans might have been. So what? I don't know if anyone has the resources to prove or disprove Ms. Dunhams's whereabouts 48 years later, but the documentation of his birth would be a great starting (and maybe ending) point.

sam

What is the name on the birth certificate? Malcolm X? Steve Urkel?

Yeah, you wouldn't accuse.  Sophistry like unto mantis's.

That slogan's a twofer, Pete. She was certainly locked down. I've assumed it was because she was senile. All the more likely the truth might slip out. Long term memory is often quite intact, and judgement about what to say is disinhibited.

And appalled, I'm appalled; since when is obsession a marker for racism. That was a thoroughly despicable comment you had.

Sue

DoT,

If I wanted to parse their words, I would say there are a number of state policies and procedures that allow vital records to be on record in any state.

You make my points for me, you know.

So, DoT, she has now BACKED OFF of saying 'birth certificate', huh? Where are your instincts for cross?

Mark O

Ah, yes. A reference to "the best evidence," seemingly made by someone who has no idea what that means. And, in the news, more representations made by state officials who are now in on a conspiracy that dwarfs the JFK shooting and creeps up on Area 51.

For those of you who distain the effect of the two contemporaneous newspaper announcements, I have yet another question. Do you know the source of the information in those announcements or do you just assume, while scratching your head with only one finger, that relatives provided the information? If so, you have little experience with small town news.

This is fun and I somewhat enjoy the chance to make fun of otherwise serious people, but do you understand how irrational and possessed you appear to ordinary, intelligent folks who require their conspiracy theories to include all the evidence?

DoT: Motion granted. Sanctions of gales of derisive laughter imposed on the perpetrators.

Does anyone still wonder why Obama has no intention of putting an end to this display of idiocy?

Stonewalls do his prison make.

That's an important point, Tom; as this thing progresses, many of those most 'in the know' about it find less and less reason to believe anything about Obama. And this the 'Dear Leader' of our nation?

Not a chance. It's hard to regain credibility after it's blown.

Ignatz

--So, DoT, she has now BACKED OFF of saying 'birth certificate', huh? Where are your instincts for cross?--

?
--the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures--

That does not seem to constitute backing off saying "birth certificate".

Mark O

Because she is merely an attesting witness, laying the foundation for an otherwise self-authenticating document, all you could do to cross examine her would be to ask where she obtained it. But, were you to ask the questions you seemingly want DoT to ask (which he is far too smart to ask) she would give you the equivalent of OJ's glove. Then, we could put that glove on TM's finger(s).

The family conspiracy theory dies, but not quickly apparently, under the weight of the fact of two papers and the more likely fact (but I will have to be sent there by TM) that the information came from the hospital, not the parents. That's how it worked in rural towns in the 60's.

But, don't stop believin'.

I don't let the perfect be the enemy of me.

Ignatz, that's the old, pre-election, 2008 statement. She doesn't say that this time, unless I'm mistaken, and that's always possible.

Ignatz

It defies common sense to believe the original BC will not say he was born in HI.
Two HI officals have stated they have seen it and that it says he was born there. So regarding where he was born it hardly seems the Holy Grail.

Now it is possible the Dunhams cooked up something fishy to put on his BC, although that doesn't seem too likely, but the idea this long form will provide any evidence he was not born in HI seems kinda weird.
Maybe there is something embarrassing but given the relatively sparse additional info it contains over the COLB it's hard to see what it is.

Mark O

Instead of the bit about Joe the Plumber at the masthead, now that the site has taken on a new feel, what about this:

morituri te salutamus

When he 'fesses up, he's going to come over all earnest about how he just learned it.  .

You are doing more supposing, Mark O, on your side of the question than am I. You are laying a lot of assertion on your belief systems about rural towns in the '60's. Got some facts? Join the crowd, no one else does either.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

DOT on CNN poll:

FINAL GRADES
Thursday at 8 PM ET
on CNN TV

Mark O

Your idea that I have no experience for my view of rural towns in the '60's is wrong. I did concede that I have no percipient knowledge about this Hawaiian town, but if it matched the 20 or 30 mainland rural towns and hospitals I knew, then the parents did not write the notice.

But, in this world where all things are equally possible, Obama may have been born a poor black child.

Show me.

You've hit the reason, Ignatz, why it is so easy to brand the birthers as crazy; it does defy common sense to think that the birth certificates show a birthplace other than Honolulu. That's the appeal of the two newspaper notices, too. But these are unusual circumstances, both by the stakes of the game, and by the game that Obama is playing. Unusual circumstances commonly defy common sense.

I'm actually the most rational here; I would claim to know nothing of his origin. You who do claim to have knowledge of his origin, where is the proof? And knowledge without proof is faith. So call me faithless. What do we call you?

Extraneus

There must be an awful lot of people clicking that "Start your journey now, my Lord" ad for it to keep coming up so often.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Everyone is assuming the birth announcements are some kind of official entity. I've seen several assume they are placed by the Health Dept. or hospital.

In genealogy, newspaper accounts of birth, death, marriage, are all considered secondary sources because there is no guarantee about the info contained in such announcements since they are normally inserted by parties interested in establishing positive information.

Read a few glowing obits to understand why. Birth announcements are in the same category.

I think the announcements were probably placed by family to document legitimacy. Obama, Sr and Ann Dunham went over to Maui to be married when she was 3 mo. pregnant to the dismay of "both families." In 1961, the whispers of a shotgun wedding, illegitimate pregnancy, etc. would require a nice birth announcement from Mr. and Mrs. Barack Obama to establish the child's legitimate birth to a married couple.

Now the newspaper announcement in conjunction with certified birth records or baptismal records would go a long way in documenting a person even if ironclad primary sources aren't available, but still a grain of salt needed since secondary sources are not cut and dried proof.

Obama needs a new lawyer in the court of public opinion

I like that, Mark O. "All you could do to cross examine her would be to ask where she obtained it". My good Mark; we are not in court, yet. And if it gets there, cross won't be designed after your advice.

The POINT was that you were rankly speculating.  Are those large enough letters to read?

Where, Mark O, do I say that it is my idea that you have no experience with small rural towns. My objection is you basing suppositions about these unusual circumstances on them, without any knowledge of the real facts. It's pie in the sky.

Here's the time for a snide comment about reading comprehension, but I'll state right up front that yours is good. So why did you say that about me? A strawidea? Pshaw!

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Oh and BTW, I think my interpretation of the birth announcements is supported by the fact that Ann's family could not get her out of town fast enough. Who sends a new mother of barely 18 (still a minor herself) off alone across the ocean with a 15 day old baby? Answer: a family who wanted this blatant embarrassment out of sight and out of mind.

I'd really like to know a lot more about his Gramma.  Gramps I already know too much about.

I wouldn't be surprised if she ran off, Sara.

Mark O

Pshaw?

Reminds me of the days of Carter: "The Pshaw is a vicious butcher, down with Pshaw."

White on. Farm out.

sylvia

"it does defy common sense to think that the birth certificates show a birthplace other than Honolulu. "

Well doesn't the long form say what hospital he was born in? Perhaps he wants to avoid releasing that because he doesn't want anyone who worked at the hospital with a long memory to remember that no such mixed race baby was born that day in that hospital in HI.

sylvia

Have we ever figured out what exactly is on a long form in 1961 as compared to a short form? I'm sure it's prob been posted here at some point, but I need a refresher.

PeterUK

" flagged you to the new White House office in charge of hazy argumentation."

Hazy Argumentation,she the new Britney Spears?

Danube of Thought

If Maguire is in fact "comfortable" with his motive, then the scientific method has indeed left the building. Perhaps we might also want to speculate inanely on her motive (and after that, her opportunity) to travel to Kenya to give birth.

It is absolutely, indisputably, provably false to assert that Obama's grandmother says he was born in Kenya. She says he was born in Hawaii. But hell, this conspiracy knows no borders.

MJW

"Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said she hoped to end lingering rumours about Obama's birthplace.

DoT citing Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino: "'I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen,' she said in a brief statement. 'I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.'"

A conspiracy so vast...

I gather that TM's believes, as I believe, that if Obama was born outside the U.S., then his Hawaiian birth certificate was acquired by registering is birth as a home birth, supported by information supplied by, for instance, one of his parents.

If that were true, what in Fukino's statements would be false, and how would the newspaper birth notices be inconsistent?

A conspiracy so vast it could consist entirely of Obama's mother.

'Absolutely, indisputably, provably', I love you for your hyperbole.

I believe it is the statement of a step-grandmother, DoT, from a phone interview, through translators and very possible a misquote, but she is reported to have said that. The question cannot be proven either way.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Sylvia:

See this link for a look at a long form for 2 births 1 day after Obama's.

MJW

Please forgive the scrambled syntax of my previous comment. I have a bad habit of revising my wording and not properly proofreading the results.

Feel free to attack the logic.

Mark O

While we were sleeping, Obama ended the war. Now I will not have to strip at the airport, unless I want to:

White House: 'War on terrorism' is over

PeterUK

Mark O,
I've put a notice in the local paper saying you have changed you name to Daisie May. Check it out in 48 years.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

BTW, the Certificate of Live Birth for Hawaii looks identical to the same for the State of Ohio that I have for my own son, born in 1965.

sylvia

Thanks Sarah. Useful link. So the long form has "the name of the hospital, the name of the attending physician, name and address of the parents, the race of the parents and the race of the baby."

So really not all that much more except the hospital. So if the HI official is accurate in leading us to believe that what's on the short form is similar to what's on the long form, then if he were hiding something, the only main thing left would be the hospital.

Now if the offical was misleading us, all bets are off.

PeterUK

"Perhaps we might also want to speculate inanely on her motive (and after that, her opportunity) to travel to Kenya to give birth."
Motive.
Simple,she was a "Third Worldist" as evinced by her marriages to a Kenyan and an Indonesian.She wanted her baby to be born in Africa. Her type abounds in left wing circles,they don't want to be westerners.

Since nobody knows,perhaps the information should be made public.

Porchlight

Sotomayor confirmed.

Porchlight

68-31, 9 Rs voted yes.

Hot Air: Wise Latina Now Justice Wise Latina

sylvia

So let me make sure I understand the process here. IF the Dunhams took out a fibbed birth cert - what would happen then?

Could they lie and say he was born at a HI hospital? I kind of doubt that because wouldn't they be nervous that that was easily checked. So they would probably have to stick with home birth.

So once they fib and take out a bc, is a long form automatically generated? And is the short form generated later from the long form?

Or - if a person takes out a short form based on an affadavit, is no long form existing at all? Is the long form only taken out by official doctors at a hospital, for instance? So perhaps the long form DOESN'T exist.

MJW

Sara, the reason they look the same, and most other BCs look very similar, is that the CDC provides a standard birth certificate that most states follow fairly closely. Hawaii law required their birth certificates contain all the information on the standard certificate.

sylvia

Warning- this post contains wild speculation!

Okay here's a new one. Dunham had Obama in Kenya. She left him there with the Kenyan relatives until the age of two so that she could go back to school and that so he could soak up Kenyan culture. Plus she planned on moving to Kenya later after school, that is until the plan went bust with Obama Sr. and she got Obama back. That's why there are no pictures of Obama until the age of two.

Danube of Thought

What the grandmother said:

"MCRAE: Could I ask her about his actual birthplace? I would like to see his birthplace when I come to Kenya in December. Was she present when he was born in Kenya?

"OGOMBE: Yes. She says, yes, she was, she was present when Obama was born.

"MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?

"OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.

MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.

"OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.

"MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.

"OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii."

So..perhaps her first utterance was a bit ambiguous because of the language barrier: she meant that yes, when Obama was born, she herself was in Kenya.

OR, ON THE OTHER HAND: She immediatelly and repeatedly contradicted herself because one of the conspirators put up a flash card saying "no! no! we gotta say he was born in Hawaii!" And the grandmother, not wanting custody of her husband's grandson ever to be granted to his son in case there happened to be a divorce, went along with the gag.

Makes sense to me.

Porchlight

Okay, sylvia, I like speculation as much as the next person, but that's just insane. Multiple people have described meeting baby Barack in Seattle before he turned 1.

Porchlight

Thanks, DoT, I hadn't seen that. Do you have a link?

The comments to this entry are closed.

Traffic

Wilson/Plame