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February 18, 2010

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matt

Next will be Operation Unicorn & Pony. Obama wants a happy outcome.

Buford Gooch

Operation "Bush did it (unless it's good, then I did it)" Too long?

It is the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

Gawd, they even ripped off 'Anbar Awakening'.
===========================

Danube of Thought

Operation "I won."

MikeS

Come to think of it. If we had some stimulus benchmarks, it might be easy to figure out how that's going.

Dave (in MA)

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Get over there, you stupid icon.

JM Hanes

LOL, Dave!

Ann

The difference between two Nobel Peace Prize winners:

The Dalai Lama, the Tibetan spiritual leader, who was also denied a meeting in the Oval office today, expressed to Mr. Obama his admiration for the U.S. as a champion of democracy, freedom, and human values.

Photobucket

Our president unable to utter words like victory, democracy, freedom, and human values
escorted the Dalai Lama to an exit where rubbish bags are kept on the grounds of the White House.

A new dawn sounds like soap I use to wash dirty dishes. How appropriate!

BR

1969 Hair
Dawning of the Age of Aquarius

Although we look at that era now as being drug-degraded and anti-war, anti-establishment violent, I do believe it was the foreshadow of a more loving world to come.

Tom Hayden and the Chicago Seven.
Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground.
At least 3 of C7 and possibly some in WU were agent provocateurs, CIA-connected. Purpose was likely to co-opt the spiritual awakening with violence and CIA-created LSD.

By the way, who originated the astrological concept, Age of Aquarius? The Romans, the Greeks, the Arabs, the Indians? Is it in the OT or NT?

BR

Well, my night reading has taken me back to the Magi of Persia, and Sufism comes from India. I can't tell yet if the significance added to planetary motion in relationship to stars were in the Vedas.

What god of time wrote this boring script?
That every couple thousand years Man should
act a certain way. Ha!

Cecil Turner

Or (more boldly), a retro "Red Dawn", as a Patrick Swayze tribute.

If they're going to keep passing rhetorical gas about this, "Breaking Wind" would be more apropos. Seriously, I don't know why they don't take credit where it's due: the Afghan operation. (Well, I know why Biden didn't . . . he was all for Drone Wars™ . . . why the Administration puts him out front for PR is less explicable.) Trying to pretend their policies won the Iraq war is farcical.

BR

Joke for the day - Zodiac myth broken :)

"Our astrological birth signs no longer coincide with the sun's location in the constellations of the Zodiac because of precession. Even the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn are now the Tropic of Taurus and the Tropic of Scorpio when we observe the sun on the solstices. Our astrologers and map makers neglected to update our present position in the cosmos for over 2,000 years. We are not the astrological birth signs the newspapers and a majority of the astrologers proclaim we are."

From The Grand Ages.

narciso

Ah yes Baigent and Leigh, whose obscurantism
into the Gnostic, Dan Brown has dined on for a decade. there's a reason I call a certain poster, "Robert Langdon" at times,

Pagar

That picture of a guest leaving the White House walking thru the trash saddens me beyond belief. All the added federal workers we have added to the payroll and we can't even get the trash out of the way.

Neo

"Operation Akbar Zeb"

Well, he's tapped into the mood of the country.  How about just voting out those as crooked as his wife?

Hah. Bayh tells voters to vote out all incumbents.
==============================

Scott D

Might as well agitate:

"Operation OBAMA VICTORY in IRAQ!

Cuz Joe Biden said so.

sbw

Operation "Breaking Wind".

clarice

What's that link, narciso?

Rob Crawford

Clarice, I've made narciso's link LUN:

narciso

It's from the Globe, debunking Bishop's hushand's claim about being cleared in the
bomb plot, it fits into the revisionist theme
of the thread

Extraneus

Here you go, DoT.

Newt Gingrich: It's Time to Team Up

Republicans have much less to lose than the President does. If they offer good solutions and work with Democrats to find areas of agreement, they will have met the country's test for bipartisanship. If they refuse to support Big Government, big-spending legislation, they will have a vast majority of the country on their side.

Let's hope, for the sake of America's health care system and our country's ability to solve public challenges, that both Obama and congressional Republicans take advantage of this opportunity.

clarice

Thanks.

It appears her defense will be "insanity". What about those who covered for and enabled her behavior for about three decades?


And why with her thin academic background was she even an assistant professor? Doesn't anyone in academia actually research the resumes?

Rob Crawford

What about those who covered for and enabled her behavior for about three decades?

Tsk, tsk, clarice. You want Charlie to explain to you how, short of offering to reload for her, no one enabled her?

Donald

I really wish that Newt would crawl up under a rock and go away. Newt, under a rock...get it?

Dave (in MA)

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Since this thread seems to have picked up the Amy Bishop topic, here's what I posted in the wee hours on the previous thread:

I love how The Globe chose a picture that just happened to include a Republican Governor to accompany its page on how Norfolk County DA Bill Delahunt whitewashed Amy Bishop's 1986 fratricide, when the Governor at the time of the murder was Mike Dukakis (D-Tank) of Willie Horton fame.

Extraneus

I think the link's broken, Dave.

Dave (in MA)

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Extraneus, it's my typing that's broken, thanks.

Here it is, fixed.

clarice

Good point. I'd blog it Dave, but who in his right mind expects more of the Globe?

Dave (in MA)

Fargin' italics.

anduril

Here's an interesting Time article re bin Laden and recent captures of claimed key personnel: Is the U.S. Hotter on Bin Laden's Trail?

Perhaps the Obama hope is that if they can account for bin Laden they can claim victory, diss Bush's failed efforts, and get out. OTOH, I suspect there are plenty of regional players who don't really want the US out. I suspect even Iran might be one of those--a Taliban 2.0 in Kabul would hardly be to Iran's benefit.

anduril

This Telegraph article re the Dubai assassination has some good points, echoing the Haaretz editorial in some respects:
The murder of al-Mabhouh is an insult to our intelligence: Anglo-Israeli co-operation in the war against terrorism is now in jeopardy
.

It is difficult to summon much sympathy for Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, the Hamas military commander who was smothered to death in his Dubai hotel room by a mysterious team of tennis-playing assassins.

...

As the saying goes in the Middle East, he who lives by terrorism ultimately becomes its victim. And the praise heaped on Mossad, Israel's foreign intelligence service, by the country's jubilant media tells you all you need to know about who was ultimately responsible for al-Mabhouh's death. "Impressive and crowned with success," proclaimed the Israeli daily Yediot Ahronot, while the Jerusalem Post confidently predicted that Meir Dagan, the hawkish head of Mossad, would not lose his job over the affair.

If there was any doubt about Israel's involvement, the country's media would be the first to proclaim its innocence. Indeed, details of the Mossad connection were first published in Britain by an Israeli journalist three weeks ago, but no one thought any more of it until the Dubai authorities made their revelations about the possible involvement of British passport holders. Subsequent attempts by Avigdor Lieberman, Israel's foreign minister, to distance his country from the affair have hardly been convincing: given the operation's sophistication, with a team of 11 highly trained agents fulfilling a range of roles, it is difficult to imagine any of the region's other intelligence services having the nous or the resources to carry out such a daring mission.

...

I doubt there are any Israelis who will mourn the passing of a commander of an organisation that is committed to their nation's destruction.

There will, though, be some who will question the methods used, and in particular whether it was wise to forge the passports of British citizens to protect the identities of the hit squad. Mr Dagan – who I think we can safely assume organised al-Mabhouh's murder – has something of a reputation as an adventurer.

...

But despite these difficulties, Britain and Israel have established close intelligence co-operation. Apart from working together to prevent Islamist-inspired terrorist attacks, intelligence officials have set up a partnership to deal with the threat posed by Iran's nuclear programme. And it is this that is now in jeopardy as a result of Mossad's cavalier disregard for British sensibilities. At the very least, Mossad could have had the decency to use fake passports, as it did with its Irish documents, rather than stealing the identities of those British citizens currently resident in Israel.

Perhaps Mr Dagan was trying to make a point – that Britain needs Israel's co-operation on intelligence matters more than Israel needs Britain's. If so, he is likely to find he has made a grave miscalculation. Britain has cut its ties with Mossad in the past – after its London station chief carelessly mislaid a sackful of forged British passports – and will do so again unless Israel can provide a credible defence of its actions.

DebinNC

That pic of the Dalai Lama leaving the WH by some side door and having to navigate around trash bags is incredible. The WSJ noted at the time that Obama's inaugural prayer service included speakers from all major faiths...except Buddhists, so the latest insult may have been intentional.

Danube of Thought

Yeah, that's sure one big issue where I disagree with Newt. What was the last think Obama compromised on?

Isn't New Dawn some sort of feminine hygiene product?

anduril

Here's the beginning of an AT blog:

5 Muslim soldiers arrested at Fort Jackson

Rick Moran

If true - and so far, the army is denying there is much of a story - the arrest of 5 Muslim soldiers at Fort Jackson in South Carolina for trying to poison the base food supply is extraordinarily bad news.

This is especially true because according to one source, there is a connection to the 5 American Muslims who journeyed to Pakistan allegedly to train to be terrorists.

I say, don't allow Muslims into the country. Others disagree, but why?

Ignatz

--Isn't New Dawn some sort of feminine hygiene product?--

Heh.

--I say, don't allow Muslims into the country. Others disagree, but why?--

Some may agree but question its constitutionality as an official policy.

anduril

Justin Raimondo makes some additional points and adds additional information: Israel Goes Rogue.

[h/t clarice: Raimondo is "flamboyantly gay." Keep that in mind as you read.]

With a fearsome reputation for ruthlessness second only to the old KGB, the Israeli intelligence services are known for their boldness and their buccaneering tactics. This was once a public relations advantage: their raid on Entebbe was made into a successful movie for a reason. From rescuing hostages, however, the Mossad has lately gone in for assassinations on foreign soil, most recently in Dubai, where they offed Hamas military commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh.

This is nothing new for the Israelis: picking off their enemies on foreign soil is a longtime favorite sport of the Mossad. The innovation that’s got Israel’s allies in an uproar, however, is a relatively new weapon in the Mossad’s arsenal: identity theft. As the Telegraph reports:

"Ministers are understood to be furious that an alleged hit squad which murdered a Hamas leader in Dubai last month cloned the passports of six unsuspecting Britons, who are now living in fear of reprisals.

"Israel, which has not denied involvement in the murder, had previously promised that Mossad, its secret intelligence service, would never use British passports to help its agents carry out covert operations."

The six are all British citizens living in Israel, where the Mossad had full access to their essential documents: they simply cloned the passports and sent their agents into Dubai. There the Israelis reportedly assembled quite a contingent, as many as 18, enough to qualify the effort as a full-scale military operation. In effect, the Israelis carried out a mini-invasion of Dubai, a fact not lost on the Emirate authorities.

...

This isn’t exactly an innovation on the part of the Israelis: in New Zealand, you’ll recall, they had a large-scale passport "farm" in operation a few years ago. Their agents would identify someone completely disabled, or otherwise unlikely to travel abroad, and – unbeknownst to the victim — apply for a passport in their name. When discovered, the Israelis denied everything, but the cops had the goods and the trial of the Israeli spies was front page news for weeks. The New Zealanders all but broke off diplomatic relations with Israel over the matter, and the Israelis, while never admitting anything, made apologetic noises while the issue – mostly ignored by the Western media outside New Zealand — faded into obscurity.

Now it has arisen once again, but this time in a far more serious context: this isn’t inconsequential-albeit-lovely New Zealand but Britain, France, Germany, Ireland, and possibly other Western nations who have had their passport systems violated. However, the worst of it is that the Mossad has apparently taken to "farming" the passports of Israelis who hold dual citizenships. According to Ha’aretz: "Five Israelis who hold dual citizenship in Britain and Germany and whose names were on some of the passports denied any connection with the Dubai death."

If Israel’s intelligence services are now "farming" the passports of those numerous Israelis who hold dual citizenship, then the passport system – the key to maintaining security in the age of terrorism – is no longer reliable or even functional. Israel is a multi-national "nation," one created by a state-sponsored effort to get people the world over to move there, and many retain citizenship in their country of origin. The US doesn’t compile statistics on dual citizenship, but the number who hold dual Israeli and US citizenship is substantial: they are now all at risk of having their identities stolen by a covert army of assassins.

There’s just one way to solve this growing problem, and that is to ban all dual citizenship, and ask Americans to choose. Yes, there’s a Supreme Court decision standing in the way, but if it requires a constitutional amendment, then so be it. At a time when maintaining the integrity of our passport system is key to preventing terrorist attacks on our territory and against our citizens abroad, it’s worth taking the trouble to patch up this gaping hole in our national security.

Go to the original article for links to the NZ story.

The concerns expressed here are similar to those in the Haaretz editorial that I linked yesterday: given that the target was a terrorist, nevertheless, was it wise to antagonize all those major European countries and humiliate one of the most moderate Arab countries by staging a virtual military invasion? Was violation of previous pledges to the Brits a good idea? There are right ways and wrong ways to go about these things.

Sue

I was so excited that Shani Davis won the gold medal...until last night when they aired the medal ceremony and he stood there, in a classic Obama pose, hands crossed in front of his crotch, head down. His lack of pride in this country in front of the world really pisses me off. I will be rooting against him from this day forward. May his skates warp and his laces break.

anduril

Constitutionality? No one has a right to enter the US. The US has banned categories of persons before, on racial grounds, and can do so again. We could shut down ALL immigration if we wanted to. Go ahead and make your constitutional argument.

Sue

Isn't this avatar my old avatar? Did they change back?

You got a terrible blind spot for when your mind is fooling you.

Anduril, that 10:50 AM comment is just so much gobbadge. What about banning dual citizenship is going to keep bad guys from forging passports.

And where, oh where, is the proof that this hit was not Fatah planned and done so partly to implicate Mossad? I made a lot of fun of your 'Fatah' yesterday, but your default assumption that Mossad did this has got to stand on more proof than the success of the mission.

The argument that this was Mossad has about the same internal consistency as the AGW fraud. Oh, yes, the science is settled; Mossad did it.

Fah.
===

Rob Crawford

Justin Raimondo is a lunatic who routinely gets his knickers in a twist over kids toys he deems "warmongering".

Anyone who cites him deserves to be mocked.

narciso

The Telegraph column comes from Gordon Thomas,
who's almost as nutty as the Joe Stack fella, on the Israel question

Ignatz

--Go ahead and make your constitutional argument.--

I don't have one, nor do I have a problem with not letting muslims in.
I was merely noting that some people believe it is some type of violation of the first amendment to block someone based on their religion.

--The US has banned categories of persons before, on racial grounds, and can do so again.--

Not sure we could realisticly do so again, at least not explicity. We have a hard time now realisticly restricting illegal immigration.

--We could shut down ALL immigration if we wanted to.--

Yes, and politically and legally, I suspect it would be much easier to do that than to shut it down selectively based on religious preference.
In a world where we presently cater in some rather disturbing ways to the religious demands of guys we captured on the battlefield trying to destroy our country I doubt there's enough will to ban relatively law abiding muslims from joining their families here.

anduril

As it happens, Scott Johnson at Powerline (which proudly flies the Israeli flag) has just posted on this topic. He's convinced, too. Some claimed the tradecraft was Keystone Koppish. Not me, I thought it was good--they had a limited window of opportunity and displayed deft foot work and, as we'll see below, very nearly got away unsuspected. Johnson takes up from that theme:

Based on the videos in his post, Foster asked if the operation had been performed by Murder, Inc. or the Keystone killers? It's a good question. Was the operation's tradecraft laughable?

"Looking at the incident in perspective," Yossi Melman writes in Haaretz, "a senior Hamas figure responsible for the deaths of two Israel Defense Forces soldiers and a key contact in the group's arms smuggling is dead." As for the tradecraft, Melman observes: "Both Hamas and the authorities in Dubai took 10 days to realize that the death was not of natural causes. All the operatives managed to escape unscathed. This is not a modus operandi only of Israel's intelligence services, but of any professional organization."

AFP's account of the operation highlighted the "elements of a top spy thriller after the Dubai police said late Monday that the militant was killed by a hit squad of 11 Europeans -- six with British IDs, three with Irish ones, and one each with German and French papers." The AFP account also pays respect to the tradecraft of the operatives: "Dubai police said the suspects, who include a woman who reportedly got Mabhuh to open the door of his hotel room letting the killers in, left the emirate within hours of the murder and used no weapons, credit cards or local phone lines during their stay." The (London) Times has more details on the operation.

in a column on the morality of the operation, historian Michael Burleigh adds to the picture: "Four teams of assassins - from Paris, Frankfurt, Rome and Zurich - flew into Dubai and tracked their victim to his hotel. Using sophisticated short-range communication devices to time their strike to perfection, the death squad murdered senior Hamas terrorist Mahmoud al-Mabhouh with clinical efficiency."

...

The Guardian has reported that a "key security operative of the Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas was under arrest in Syria tonight on suspicion of having helped an alleged Israeli hit squad identify Mahmoud al-Mabhouh before he was assassinated in Dubai[.]"

Our man in Damascus may not just have been a token. He appears to have been in good company. According to the Daily Mail, "[i]intelligence sources say al-Mabhouh was lured to a meeting in Dubai by two men who had worked with him in Hamas in Gaza." Haaretz identifies the two Palestinians as Ahmad Hasnin, a Palestinian intelligence operative, and Anwar Shekhaiber, an employee of the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah. The Daily Mail suggests that al-Mabhouh "did not realise they had defected to the more moderate Fatah, bitter enemies of Hamas, and were secretly working with the Israelis."

The latest word from Dubai included more evidence of the operation's tradecraft: "The director of the Dubai Police forensic medicine department revealed yesterday that finding the cause of al-Mabhouh's death had been the most difficult post mortem he had ever done. British-trained Dr Fawzi Benomran said the killers had put his body in bed and covered it, to make it appear he had died in his sleep."

According to the Palestinian news agency Ma'an, Dubai police said Wednesday that they hold retinal scans of the suspected assassins.

Yesterday I mentioned the possibility of facial recognition software being used, but retinal scans could also be very important--and more conclusive as to identity. Those scans will no doubt be circulated globally in the effort to identify the assassins, and may have already played a role--as witness the high degree of certainty that Israel was behind this. All very interesting to me. But for an unusually well trained doctor, the additional investigation that uncovered the plot may never have occurred. This tradecraft was anything but laughable, and if it had really been displayed by Fatah I'd think the Israelis would be seriously concerned.

anduril

I agree to an extent re political will, but if the panty bomber had been successful, perhaps it would be a different story--and could become so in the future again.

You raised the possibility of a constitutional issue. There is none, and I don't believe that the US Supreme Court would ever override Congress and attempt to hijack immigration policy. No matter what "some" might want them to do.

anduril

All the silly ad hominem stuff is as expected. I'll be interested to see if anyone attacks Scott Johnson, though.

clarice

The world is so amusing. A murderous thug may have been murdered and the bien pensants are concerned that the assassins used faked passports.
(Of course the dead man, an arms dealer and murderer did, too.)

And then there's this--perhaps the brilliant doctor who performed the autopsy can answer this..the initial report said the bidy was found in a room where the door had been locked and chained from the inside.

when last I saw this trick (in Sherlock Holmes) the ape did it.

clarice

**bOdy***

narciso

I'm still struck did the passport holders match the faces, if not why were they let into
the country, unless Dubai was in on it, from the getgo. Which I would find unusual since
they specialize in offshore enterprises of dubious legality

Ignatz

--There is none, and I don't believe that the US Supreme Court would ever override Congress and attempt to hijack immigration policy.--

Certainly it has never intruded where it didn't belong before.

Frau Morgenröte

New Improved Dawn?

clarice

Could you defeat retinal scans with some really high tech contact lenses?

And saying you've a blind spot is hardly ad hominous.  My attack was on your argument.

If Scott Johnson tries to pass off an argument as shallow and unsubstantiated as yours, anduril, I'll attack it, too. Note the attack on the argument, and not on the man.
=================================

Omigod, anduril mortal?  Say it ain't so.

It's sophism, anduril. I'm a big fan of yours, sometimes you have marvelous insights. And sometimes your reasoning stinks.
===================================

anduril

Note the clever way I deal with this all italics thread:

1. the initial report said the bidy was found in a room where the door had been locked and chained from the inside.

2. did the passport holders match the faces, if not why were they let into the country

3. Certainly it has never intruded where it didn't belong before.

4. Could you defeat retinal scans with some really high tech contact lenses?

5. If Scott Johnson tries to pass off an argument as shallow and unsubstantiated as yours, anduril, I'll attack it, too. Note the attack on the argument, and not on the man.

6. I'm a big fan of yours, sometimes you have marvelous insights.

1. What, are you claiming it was natural causes now? I'm sure there are explanations, ways and means. I don't happen to know the room and exterior layout, door design, etc. I'm sure it was handled with the same degree of professionalism as the rest of the op, with the same intent--to blunt suspicion. The point is, following the autopsy they reviewed the video feeds and caught all but the actual killing on camera: the woman getting him to open the door, the assassins entering. How they pulled off the cover-up is interesting but not terribly material.

2. The passports were in some cases forged and in others cloned. I can't tell you how the issue of the photos was handled. Certainly, if Mossad recruited Hamas and Fatah operatives they could recruit someone in Dubai. However, we also know they were using disguises, and that might be a factor as well.

3. The Supreme Court has rarely overruled Congress on really fundamental issues, where Congress is trying to make a fundamental statement about national security. You'll be able to find exceptions, maybe, but not many. If you're going to argue in this area, you need to be prepared to draw these distinctions.

4. I don't know. If it is, I'm sure it was tried. That's one reason I brought up facial recognition tech. I'm told that it's fairly sophisticated.

5. To the contrary, this is another silly ad hominem post. You nowhere address Johnson's arguments, mine, nor anyone else's.

6. I'll take that endorsement for what it's worth and keep it in the safe place it merits: in my Fatah--wherever that happens to be.

clarice

A quick google search indicates that both facial recognition and retinal scan devices can be bypassed and fooled.I've no idea if this is true..but there are a variety of suggested ways to do this.


Omigod, anduril funny?  Say it ain't so.

5. The main argument seems to be that it must have been Mossad since it worked. This argument ignores the Palestinians and Syrian in custody. It is shallow and unsubstantiated. For you to think I've attacked you ad hominously and to so state is sophistry.

6. Please pull your Fatah out of the Magic Hat you just found a Mossad in.
=================================

anduril

And if the techniques for bypassing/fooling can be detected to have been used it's an indication of 1) intent and 2) relative sophistication.

These are interesting technical issues, but are only marginally important to the main issue, as expressed by Haaretz and others: what could be the implications or results of Israel conducting a virtual military invasion of a really very moderate Arab country using forged/cloned passports of European countries with which it has intel ties--and whom it promised not to abuse their passports?

anduril

The Palestinians and Syrians ARE addressed, in multiple accounts which I've quoted. Replying to you is a waste of time and space--as are you.

That one was a lie, anduril.

And, contrary to your assertion, I have everywhere made this same argument that the efficacy of the operation is the main, and inadequate, argument for it being a Mossad operation.
===============================

This is shabby, anduril, and does not become you.

anduril, don't you wonder why you have one set of ethical expectations for Israelis and another for their opponents?
==================================

Hey, quit reading what I have to write.

Listening to you try to find your default assumptions in your Fatah is definitely not a waste of time. It is highly educational, and dismaying.
=========================

Porchlight

Ann, re: your Dalai Lama pic, that is indeed a shame. The AP says it's all about China:

WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama personally welcomed the Dalai Lama to the White House on Thursday and lauded his goals for the Tibetan people, but he kept their get-together off-camera and low-key in an attempt to avoid inflaming tensions with China.

[snip]

So Obama sat down with his fellow Nobel laureate in the Map Room instead of the Oval Office -- a decidedly lower status in the White House venue pecking order. Even the White House description of the talks was done on paper. The timing was a concession, too, as Obama declined to see the Dalai Lama during his Washington stay in October because it would have come before the president's November China visit.

But remember also the Dalai Lama had praise for George W. Bush's defense of human rights. According to the story above, GWB is the only recent president (since Reagan? The AP was coy about that) to appear in public with the Dalai Lama.

And we know Obama doesn't like it when people praise Bush.

clarice

If I can find online a number of suggested ways to bypass retinal scans so can anyone..and as far as I know these don't seem to require a great deal of scientific expertise or elaborate equipment.

clarice

Jen Rubin suggests the govt hid the Ft Jackson case so it could hide the connections in the Ft Hood case whitewash.

Possible indeed.


And here's some big news from Lucianne:

New Jersey's Frank Lautenberg, nation's second-oldest senator, has stomach cancer
·

Ignatz

--3. The Supreme Court has rarely overruled Congress on really fundamental issues, where Congress is trying to make a fundamental statement about national security. You'll be able to find exceptions, maybe, but not many. If you're going to argue in this area, you need to be prepared to draw these distinctions.--

By immigration I assume you mean people who plan to become citizens. One would have to demonstrate that the relatively few moslems who are allowed to come here and who are law abiding pose a national security issue.
Even given that however I didn't have to look far, nor far back, to find Rasul, Hamdi, Hamdan and Boumediene to get an idea of where things stand today as far as the court intervening in national security affairs.

--Note the clever way I deal with this all italics thread:--

Two points;
1) For we advanced Windows/IE users it isn't an all italics thread.
2) Get some help; you sound exactly like my NPD brother.
Back to my Amish ways.

Porchlight

Jen Rubin suggests the govt hid the Ft Jackson case so it could hide the connections in the Ft Hood case whitewash.

Possible indeed.

Wow. If true, that would - or should, anyway - be an enormous scandal.

narciso

And you can add the cases on illegal immigration and school eligibility, like Plyer v Doe, has he heard of strict scrutiny

Cecil Turner

I'm surprised anduril couldn't find one of these stories: IAEA fears Iran working now on nuclear warhead:

The U.N. nuclear watchdog said on Thursday it fears Iran may be working now to develop a nuclear-armed missile, as Washington warned Tehran of "consequences" for ignoring international demands to stop its atomic program.
Actually, I'm not surprised. Nor am I surprised he quotes Justin Raimondo (of antiwar.com fame), nor that he pretends the offensive part of that detestable oaf is that he's gay. But ad hominem, that's everyone else's problem.

Self-parody . . . still the richest kind.

Mike Myers

"New Dawn" a feminine hygiene product? Well maybe. Obama's minions have no doubt been consulting with the brand manager mavens at Proctor & Gamble. New Dawn may just be a "rebrand" of the old soft soap. But then "New Coke" was a marketing flop. I predict "New Dawn" will soon be washed down the drain.

DebinNC

WH only released one pic of Obama and the Dalai Lama, but it speaks volumes...especially compared to the one shown of the DL with GWB.

Ignatz

--WH only released one pic of Obama and the Dalai Lama, but it speaks volumes...especially compared to the one shown of the DL with GWB.--

Deb, let's not forget Barry inherited the DL.

glasater

Ft Jackson appears to have happened around Christmas time along with the Christmas bomber.

These things usually happen in "threes" and indicate some sort of concerted attack against us.

anduril
If I can find online a number of suggested ways to bypass retinal scans so can anyone..and as far as I know these don't seem to require a great deal of scientific expertise or elaborate equipment.

And your point is...?

Frau Morgenröte

>Kryten: Logically, sir, there is only one way you could have possibly have opened that door. I feel quite nauseous. —Where is it?
>Lister: Where's what?
>Kryten (horrified): Oh, sir, you've got it in your jacket!!
>Lister: I got us out of the hold, didn't I?
>Kryten: Sir, you are sick! You are a sick, sick person! How can you possibly even conceive of such an idea?
>Lister: Hey, cheer up... or I'll beat you to death with the wet end.
>Kryten: Sir, if mechanoids could barf, I'd be onto my fifth bag by now...
-Red Dwarf, The Inquisitor

boris

"And your point is...?"

Even a cave man could figure it out.

Jim Miller

Clarice - Perhaps you are thinking of Edgar Allen Poe, rather than Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

anduril
One would have to demonstrate that the relatively few moslems who are allowed to come here and who are law abiding pose a national security issue.

Demonstrate to whom? Congress is free to legislate in this area at its own discretion. There is no constitutional right to immigrate to the US.

I didn't have to look far, nor far back, to find Rasul, Hamdi, Hamdan and Boumediene to get an idea of where things stand today as far as the court intervening in national security affairs.

I never suggested that the Supreme Court is unable or should not "intervene" in "national security affairs." That would be an utterly absurd position. What I stated, very carefully, is:

"The Supreme Court has rarely overruled Congress on really fundamental issues, where Congress is trying to make a fundamental statement about national security.

Now, follow this closely:

Rasul did not deal with Congressional action.

Hamdi did not deal with Congressional action.

The Hamdan decision did not question the constitutionality of Congressional action, but rather addressed the legality of action taken by the Executive.

Boumediene is a complicated decision re habeas corpus and the MCA. Only one provision of the MCA was held unconstitutional. Habeas can and has been suspended and the Court did not dispute that. The dispute was over the manner in which habeas was handled in MCA. The MCA, btw, was another brainchild of McCain.

So, I repeat:

"The Supreme Court has rarely overruled Congress on really fundamental issues, where Congress is trying to make a fundamental statement about national security. You'll be able to find exceptions, maybe, but not many. If you're going to argue in this area, you need to be prepared to draw these distinctions."

In future, please read what I say 1) with an open mind and 2) much more carefully. Also, please do a bit of research.

The italics issue is specific to Firefox. I have other browsers for which it's not an issue. Konqueror is one of them, but there are others.

clarice

Jim, I think you may well be correct.

anduril

narciso, butt out of things you don't know anything about:

Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202 (1982), was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States struck down a state statute denying funding for education to children who were illegal immigrants. The Court found that where states limit the rights afforded to people based on their status as aliens, this limitation must be examined under an intermediate scrutiny standard to determine whether it furthers a substantial goal of the State.

You might, however, offer an opinion on that Spengler article I quoted.

narciso

That whole raft of cases, beginning with Rasul dispenses entirely with precedent, because they didn't want to deal with the issues involved, they applied Geneva convention 3, despite the fact that it didn't apply.

You make my point with Plyer, strict scrutiny would be even worse, in these circumstances

MayBee

Fabulous MarcKnoller tweets from Obama townhall just now:

Obama says critics are wrong to say recent snowstorms in DC show that global warming theory is bogus.

Obama says the science of climate change doesn't mean that every place is getting warmer, only that planet as a whole is warming.

Obama cites mild temps and no snow in Vancouver while Dallas is getting snow as example of climiate change impact.

ha ha ha ha ha

anduril
That whole raft of cases, beginning with Rasul dispenses entirely with precedent, because they didn't want to deal with the issues involved, they applied Geneva convention 3, despite the fact that it didn't apply.

You're making a fool of yourself. Nowhere have I defended any of those decisions.

Yvo de Boer.  Oh, what a hoer.

Heh, MayBee, the science and the journalism are getting wierder and wierder. The weather, well, it varies. As does climate.
==============================

Dave (in MA)

Only 15 more posts and my italiaco goes away.

boris

"You're making a fool of yourself"

Said the joker ...

Rob Crawford

Heh, MayBee, the science and the journalism are getting wierder and wierder. The weather, well, it varies. As does climate.

The weather varies. The journalism does not.

MayBee

Credit where it's due though, Rob. Mark completely busted Obama on that.

Extraneus

Yeah, Rush played that today, too. Funny as hell being lectured about "science" by Obama, especially after all that's come out in the past few months. Maybe he was lecturing NYT readers, since they're about the only ones unaware of that.

It's the water vapor feedback, stupid.

See Richard Lindzen eat Kerry Emanuel and John Holdren for lunch about the climate science in a letter to the editor. LUN.
===============================

Jim Miller

I can spell Edgar Allan Poe's name correctly -- sometimes.

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