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September 04, 2010

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Clarice

Thom Lifson did a nice riff on this..BTW he says in this what I don't say in this week's CP..King himself was a plagiarizer though historians have largely brushed that over.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/smartest_president_in_history.html

Larry X

@Ras -21

Danube of Thought

These guys could FU a free lunch.

BO Quote Czar

There is such a thing as a free lunch.

Frau Jungfrau

Exactly!

Boatbuilder

To misquote the immortal Sgt. Hulka: "Lighten up, Francis." I'm willing to give both Obama and Dr. King a pass on this one. (Although what's the deal with weaving quotes into the carpet, anyway?

I did hear a good joke about the carpet, on NPR's "Wait, Don't Tell Me," of all places.
Apparently the carpet is small enough that Obama can roll it out 5 times a day for prayer.

DrJ

NPR's "Wait, Don't Tell Me"

Clarice's BIL still is on? I had no idea!

OldTimer

Shaped by the Clinton media, only more exaggerated, everything Obama is a mirage--an illusion. His handlers have concocted a "story" of him to fit what they believe the masses are craving and need. He's so devoid of the ability to assess himself critically, he falls into line effortlessly with whatever makes him "look" good. When speaking extemporaneously, BHO exhibits an astonishing lack of useful information and peppers his sentences with boilerplate leftism's that betray his lack of original thought. When reading from the prompter, he's like a parrot in a cage, carefully coaxed to mimic his owners prejudices, but in ignorance --or even remembrance of what was just vocalized.

It's easy to envision Obammy's buds lounging around the Oval office, thumbing through historical archives coming up with quotes Obammy never heard of before, in order to embellish a rug that none of them will ever pay attention to once its on the floor, except for inviting in the gullible press to make a big deal out of it and spread the word of Obammy's deep philosophical genius.

Pofarmer

Amazing shallowness of intellect on display.

Captain Hate

When does the velvet artwork go up?

Buford Gooch

Cool! I need a velvet Obama to hang with my velvet Jesus and my velvet Elvis. It will go right there by my poker playing dogs.

DrJ

Is there a velvet Mohamed? It would look great next to the poker dogs.

BumperStickerist

woven into the rug?

That's just ... so ... dumb.

for starters, who's supposed to get the message? The lady vacuuming the oft-empty Oval Office carpet?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_aT51q6qYvOs/Sz-qjAZvBAI/AAAAAAAAAUA/KYo7LcPvylg/s1600-h/vacuuming-oval-office.jpg

Truman had the right idea:

http://healthyinfluence.com/wordpress/2009/11/12/poker-buck-knives-and-harry-truman/

a sign.
on the desk.


problem with that approach is, though, that Obama would have to sit his butt behind the Resolute desk once in a while to see it.

.

Clarice

Dr J, Wait, wait is a rip off ,cheap imitation of my BIL's "Whadda ya know".

tollhouse

The simplest explanation for his flatfooted speeches is that he has some 20 something speech writers who simply aggregate the best phrases from other speeches. It's pretty clear once you start seeing echos of other Presidents and civic leaders in what Obama says. And if you look closely you will start to see how the metaphors and allusions start to jumble together and step on each other in Obama's speeches. Clearly, the parts are incongruent to the whole because the speeches are built like you would fill out a Madlibs.

Jack is Back!

Words mean something especially if they are someone elses. It's called linga-larceny but since this theft was obviously committed by juveniles, no charges.

JM Hanes

This seems like a load of nit picking to me. Dr. King's simple ringing sentence is far more elegant and powerful than the original, and far more assured. I can see the rug now:

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" [based on a meandering paragraph by Theodore Parker.]
I don't doubt that part of what made it particularly meaningful to Obama was hearing that sentiment from Dr. King. If folks want to snark about the lack of citation to the original, maybe they should be taking MLK to task -- and researching the possible derivation of every other memorable quote they have ever attributed to a public speaker.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

It will go right there by my poker playing dogs.

BG, my English Bulldog, Buster, looks just like one of those dogs and demands I put one on the wall in the basement. I have been resisting.

narciso

It rings true for King, JM, but it doesn't for Obama, in any number of ways

hit and run

TM:
Well, as Bob Hope said, "It's not what we know, but what we know that ain't so that gets us into trouble." Or was that Will Rogers?

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/ronaldreaganatimeforchoosing.htm>Well.

The trouble with Obama is not just that he is ignorant, but that he knows so much that isn't so.

--stuff Reagan (almost) said.
JM Hanes

tollhouse:

"The simplest explanation for his flatfooted speeches is that he has some 20 something speech writers..."

That seems to me to be a major defect in what passes for a lot of reporting and commentary these days. The whiz kids at the New Republic spring to mind -- their callowness and lack of historical depth fairly leaps off the page. Ditto for whoever is writing the NYTimes editorials these days. The institutional slant is not new, it's the Alice in Wonderland quality of the "analysis.".

Rick

As noted in the first response on this thread, and as I commented at Dan Riehl's--

'Well, the "inconvenient truth" is that is wouldn't be the first instance of MLK plagiarism, though it's likely a misattribution that our moral betters are happy to let stand.'

I hope it's no raaaaacist, but Rev. King has been lionized far beyond his deeds. Hell, so was JFK, and the current Oval Office carpet failure.

My botheration comes from MLK being the only Murikan who has a holiday named after him. Like we haven't done better.

Cordially...

Doris Kearns Goodwin

As a noted Presidential historian, I don't have a problem with this.

Ranger

[based on a meandering paragraph by Theodore Parker.]

Actually, the paragraph doesn't meander at all. It is a very clear statement of humility in the inability of humans to fully know the will of God. But such a statement is obviously very discomforting to the Liberal of today, who imagines he can understand everything important about the world, and engineer a perfect human society if given enough time and money.

Ranger

BTW, Gallup demonishes the last Dem talking point about the upcoming bloodbath in November:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/142880/Americans-Likely-Favor-GOP-Newcomers-Congress.aspx>Americans Most Likely to Favor GOP Newcomers for Congress

An interesting twist on the generic ballot:

Overall, a majority of Americans prefer a Republican candidate (regardless of experience) to a Democrat, 53% to 40%. And a majority also prefer a non-incumbent (regardless of party affiliation) to an incumbent, 54% to 39%

So, it's not just an anti-incumbent wave, it is very clearly an anti-Dem incumbent wave.

MayBee

and researching the possible derivation of every other memorable quote they have ever attributed to a public speaker.

I don't know, JMH. The idea of a moral universe having an arc that bends toward justice seems a pretty original thought.
MLK's wording may have been more elegant, but the power of the concept was Parker's.

Rick Ballard

I want hear what Vice-President Kinnock has to say before giving my opinion on plagiarism by the intellectually limited.

Rick Ballard

I want hear what Vice-President Kinnock has to say before giving my opinion on plagiarism by the intellectually limited.

Jane

Except it's not a King quote.

I can't stop laughing. The smartest man on the planet is too stupid to fact check his rug. I cannot wait to hear the narrative:

Rahm: I implored the president to at least make sure he had the quote right, but no, he wouldn't do it, sitting on his desk with that smug grin he always had right before he stuck it to the rich. Andy Stern was right there with him, along with Mike Bloomberg. Their golf game was waiting, and besides America is so stupid Barry was sure no one would ever notice.

MayBee

Oh, I knew that Arc quote bugged me for a reason.

Obama says his election was a chance for Americans to put their hands on the arc of history and bend it to a better day.

Obama invokes "arc of history" to "support" Iranians getting slaughtered in the streets after the election.

DrJ

Dr J, Wait, wait is a rip off ,cheap imitation of my BIL's "Whadda ya know".

Oops. Clearly I don't listen to NPR.

Comanche Voter

Of course if Obama had ever actually done any work on the Harvard Law Review, he would have been told about "cite checking". You take some professor's law review article--or a classmate's law review comment, and you go back to every citation, every qoute etc. And you make sure they got it right.

Now the Bambi probably didn't do a lick of work on the Harvard Law Review--he took a victory lap as the "first black President of the Harvard Law Review' and figured that that would be all that was required of him.

Now he's standing on a mistaken failure to cite check every time he walks across his goldanged rug!

Danube of Thought

I like the Gallup numbers, but I have long since stopped trusting Gallup because of its inexplicable volatility. Last week the had the GOP up ten on the generic congressional ballot--the highest margin for either party in their 62 years of asking the question.

Problem is, about six weeks ago they had the Dems up six. I didn't believe that when I saw it, but I also don't believe even Gallup thinks that one-sixth of the electorate has changed its mind in less that two months. So what the hell does Gallup think? As far as I know, they have never undertaken to explain this, and this kind of thing happens all the time with them.

MayBee

Claudia Rossett: Please, no more arc of history.

On the one year anniversary of the Iranians, getting beaten in the streets, a WH human rights adviser :
“The courage of the Iranian people stands as an example to us and it challenges us to continue our efforts to bend the arch of history in the direction of justice.”

and again:

"Obama has also brandished the arc in other contexts, including his remarks with Chinese President Hu Jintao last July, when it was “the arc of history that led to a wall coming down in Berlin” (gee, some of us thought it wasn’t an “arc,” but a combination of Ronald Reagan standing up to the Soviets, and Germans wielding sledgehammers)."

The man loves that arc.

Look who commented there! My wonderful JMH. I'm bearing witness to your comment, JMH.

daddy

Mentioned this before but Tacitus tells us that the first Emperor to have a speechwriter was Nero.

Ignatz

As I understand it Michelle had her hands on this Oval Orifice redo, so if she's having trouble with her carpet shouldn't they call in Hillary?
Who better to get on top of all things rug related?

daddy

So you're saying the rugs been pulled out from under him?...

Take my wife...Please. Hello, hello...Is this thing on?

DrJ

Who better to get on top of all things rug related?

Napolitano? Reno? Huma Abedin?

Dave (in MA)

Maybe Joe "Roosevelt went on TV" Biden does all of Zero's historical research.

Pagar

"The smartest man on the planet is too stupid to fact check his rug."

IMO, looking for his birth certificate is taking up most of his time. He just doesn't have time to check all these little details.

daddy

Now here's ">http://blogs.laweekly.com/stylecouncil/2008/09/10/palin.jpg"> a rug that might look good in the Oval Office.

JM Hanes

I'm glad to see you too MayBee!

My main point, really, is that Obama is, in fact, quoting Dr. King, not Theodore Parker.

As Ranger also points out above, Parker was actually saying something rather different.

tollhouse

That's the problem of the information economy, JMH. As we come to rely on people that are excellent at manipulating symbols, we tend to push out those that are the actual actors. And it's not just the 20 somethings that have never held a job or worked in a factory or any other number of things of which would represent reality. Look at the political writers of the NYTs. They come from the critical field or professional journalists and they presume to tell use something about how things are? They gather "facts" that devoid of context, are simply factoids, recontextualize them, and then use them to say any number of things that are not true. They create an abstract sense of reality that has no relationship to the real because their fundamental assumptions are based on tertiary knowledge that itself is questionable.

Clarice

Maybe he likes that ARC business so much because
1. It suggests there's no reason for him to act on anything. He can be his lazy ass self and things will just work out.

2. He would never have to acknowledge the contribution of other human beings which might dim his own luster.

3. There's not a lot rattling around that credentialed moron's brain--or not a lot he can remember after all those years on drugs, and this one sounds really cool--roll it around on your tongue and see what I mean.

matt

Looks like the Ministry of Meaningfulness and Symbols missed one again. Sometimes that arc of history comes right around and bites you in the ass...

matt

don't king crab rugs crunch when you walk on them, daddy?

Bill in AZ sez it's time for Zero to resign

"Maybe he likes that ARC business so much because..."

Reminds him of a crescent

MayBee

Hmm...I think MLK and Parker were saying the same thing. It is Obama who uses it (on occasion) differently.

Having said that, I don't have a problem with it being on the rug as it is, although I think it's worth acknowledging that the idea is a creation of Parker's.

bgates

I don't doubt that part of what made it particularly meaningful to Obama was hearing that sentiment from Dr. King.

I agree that it meant much more to him coming from a black guy.

I also agree that it's nitpicking. It's nitpicking of President Wonderful, in the Washington Post. That's marvelous.

daddy

"don't king crab rugs crunch when you walk on them, daddy?"

I believe they do Matt, which is why we need Ann Mongrel to dig up and post a better photo of somebody's ">http://troglopundit.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/palin-bear2.jpg"> rug.

matt

aww..I thought that up in Alaska that was just a throw....them grizzle bars are just pests....

narciso

Yes and didn't he end up poisoning him, daddy

Old Lurker

I can contribute some pink flamingos and shiny landscaping balls from my WV-KY roots. But Cap'n, I'm keeping my velvet painting of Elvis. When he dies, it's gonna be worth a fortune.

Clarice

Drudge says the NYT will report the Dems plan a "firewall" to save their Congressional majority. What do you think their plan will be. My husband says its a new 3000 pp law the Reid-Pelosi-Frank-Dodd untitled law that says no Republicans can ever again be elected to Congress.

Clarice

Heh,OL..I love that one.

PD

Drudge says the NYT will report the Dems plan a "firewall" to save their Congressional majority. What do you think their plan will be.

Some kind of Kristallnacht followed by cancellation of the elections?

DrJ

I'm keeping my velvet painting of Elvis. When he dies, it's gonna be worth a fortune.

"Elvis is not dead. He just went home."

--Men In Black, 1997

tollhouse

Obama fundamentally changes the sense of the arc of justice, when he says that people have to reach up and change it.

The original sense is that the arc of morality is the creator's/God's/the universe/Hawking's Law of Science, hand of jurisprudence that will set things that are wrong right. And Parker formulated it this way because, I presume, the people around him were "bending" the arc the wrong way, i.e compromising on slavery. Parker explicitly excludes people from changing the arc's path. "I do not pretend to understand the moral universe." Ah but Obama does pretend.

Obama's rendition reverses the meaning by claiming that people can "bend" it towards more justice. That implies that the arc can be bent in any direction by human will. And to use the deconstruction argument against this formulation, how does Obama pretend to know what is the moral arc of the universe and what gives him the right to act? Parker didn't presume to know, he just knew that it works, whereas Obama desires to bend that arc.

daddy

Can't remember if Nero poisoned him Narciso, or instead set him on fire with a new type of lighter fluid to provide better illumination for his nighttime outdoor banquets. Will have to get back to you on that.
Dog walking time. Later.

jfxgillis

Funny.

So the exact words are indeed MLK's and the rug doesn't attribute them anyway.

I'm getting bored with you idiot right-wingers and your doubled-up stupid lies. Triple up sometime just to make it interesting.

PD

I'm getting bored with you idiot right-wingers and your doubled-up stupid lies.

The "lie" being ... what, exactly? Or are you just so reflexive you can't help but fling the word around?

Snookems

jfxgillis is a racist! He just called MLK a plagiarist!!!

hit and run

I'm getting bored with

You've been here so long,I don't blame you.

You've been here long enough,I'm bored with you,too.

Let's call it even.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

That conservative rag WAPO spreading doubled-up or tripled-up stupid lies. What is the world coming to?

jfxgillis

Snookems:

Er. MLK is indeed a plagiarist. Something of a serial plagiarist, actually. Google it.

PD:

Read the linked Salon story. MLK took a paragraph by Parker and turned it into an aphorism. The concept might be Parker's but the exact words are MLK's.

MayBee

The thing I like best about that original WaPo story introducing the style change of the Oval Office: It twice invokes "No Drama Obama". Is that even operative anymore?

JM Hanes

bgates:

"It's nitpicking of President Wonderful, in the Washington Post. That's marvelous."

Can't quarrel with that.

PD

Read the linked Salon story. MLK took a paragraph by Parker and turned it into an aphorism. The concept might be Parker's but the exact words are MLK's.

So indulge me. Spell out the "lie."

PD

More WaPo:

The government should be prepared to close down even the nation's largest firms if they pose a broader threat to the financial system, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said on Capitol Hill.

Bernanke's saying the Federal government might need to be shut down if it becomes an even greater threat to our financial system?

bgates

you idiot right-wingers in the Washington Post.

Your party is going to lose so badly, Obama will face a primary challenge from Zell Miller in 2012.

jfxgillis

PD:

"Except it's not a King quote." That is a LIE. It is indeed a King quote, though inspired by the idea of Parker.

bgates

After the next election, the Democrats will be able to caucus in a Ford Windstar, if they can find one Alan Grayson isn't sleeping in.

Snookems

jfx is doubling down on the racism. Disgusting.

PD

"Except it's not a King quote." That is a LIE. It is indeed a King quote, though inspired by the idea of Parker.

Your quote is from the WaPo article. So you're saying the WaPo is lying?

Well, okay.

narciso

I'm sorry to have brought it up, I thought he had been poisoned, but was for his part in
a conspiracy against Nero, not for the quality
of his prose, in the LUN

PD

link

Because you just can't get enough news about William Shatner!

Captain Hate

I guess the good news is Bammy didn't include "Life ain't nothin' but bitches and money" on the rug.

geezer

Turn in your halberds and pikes. Republicans mindful of Democrats baring them from committees will close toilets to the Dummies.
Save your empty milk cartons for sale at the House store.
Green jobs will be created. Congressional Piss Boy positions will be sought after.

Ignatz

--I'm getting bored with you idiot right-wingers and your doubled-up stupid lies. Triple up sometime just to make it interesting.--

You're knowledgeable, smart, well mannered and quite justified in your preening arrogance.
There's a quadruple for ya. How's that?

narciso

Speaking of fact checking, well this doesn't strike one as a surprise, does it anymore, in the LUN

Rick Ballard

Facing Electoral Tsunami, Democrats Build Firewall

Obama probably spent the whole Summer of Recovery planning it.

Jane

Drudge says the NYT will report the Dems plan a "firewall" to save their Congressional majority.

What does that mean?

boris

Perhaps a lifeboat strategery pulling support from the safe seats and the goners to prop up enough that are still in play.

Danube of Thought

I see no reason to believe that either Parker or MLK was correct. Or Obama.

jimmyk

the Dems plan a "firewall" to save their Congressional majority.

God forbid they should reevaluate their policy positions.

hit and run

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100904/ap_on_re_us/us_palin_author;_ylt=AjivAq0T8kPhlb7g1zkPQSms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFldW5sb3FtBHBvcwM2OARzZWMDYWNjb3JkaW9uX3Vfc19uZXdzBHNsawNhcGludGVydmlld2E->Buh bye

ANCHORAGE, Alaska – Sarah Palin can take down the fence. Palin's neighbor of three months on Wasilla's Lake Lucille, author Joe McGinniss, is packing his bags and notebooks and leaving Sunday for his home in Massachusetts to write the book he has been researching on the former governor and GOP vice presidential candidate.

I'm sure he's got the goods.

Clarice

What safe seats, boris? Even half of the CBC is under indictment or the subject of ethics investigations?

boris

They are so doomed, doomed ...

Charlie (Colorado)

Actually, the paragraph doesn't meander at all.

As someone who is rather a fan of 18th and 19th century prose, this is something that annoys me regularly. Once upon a time, the sentence was a thing of art; it could be constructed, brick by brick, through simile and metaphor; it could use allusions to build deeper understanding, eloquence not just for its own sake but to direct the ponderings of the thoughtful listener; it could build a rhythm to pleasant effect while still maintaining and enlarging the thesis to which it had been dedicated.

Now, people just expect it quickly to come to a full stop.

Jane

Perhaps a lifeboat strategery

My guess is more like a law that those of us who have not redistributed enough wealth are no longer allowed to vote.

Anyone know where McGinnis lives? Natick maybe? I think we should take turns watching him.

MayBee

heh, Charlie. Point well made.

Charlie (Colorado)

Napolitano? Reno? Huma Abedin?

Snork.

DrJ

Once upon a time, the sentence was a thing of art; it could be constructed, brick by brick, through simile and metaphor;

[snip]

These days, that fine sentence is worth $0.00 to pajamas media.

Charlie (Colorado)

I think what we're missing here is that the sense in which O is using this "arc of history" seems to be consistent, not with the original idea of spiritual growth, but in the sense of dialectical materialism, a class struggle resolving the contradictions inherent in the world as it is.

So there.

Charlie (Colorado)

These days, that fine sentence is worth $0.00 to pajamas media.

Well, actually, they're still paying me for sentences, just not for managing their IT, finding new writers like Pat Richardson, rewriting Chris Horner and Richard Pollock into readable English, persuading them to move to new technologies or spending nights and weekends cleaning the nutcases and Mobys out of the comments.

Pleasantly enough, starting sometime after the 8th, http://rightnetwork.com will also be paying me for my sentences, and a bit more. I couldn't be doing that if PJ hadn't fired me.

Jim Ryan

P.G. Wodehouse owes his success to his sentences, I think. His were books about nothing, written in exquisite sentences.

As for King, ouch.

Jim Ryan

I see no reason to believe that either Parker or MLK was correct. Or Obama.

Quite right. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the bally thing, while not doggerel, is balderdash.

Carol Herman

It's pretty upscale for stuff that looks like it was bought at Wal-Mart's.

Clarice

They fired you from the IT position or the editing?

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