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January 09, 2011

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Stephanie

Christina Taylor Green, nine-year-old victim in today's Tucson shootings, once was an infant designated to be a "Face of Hope" by virtue of her birth on September 11, 2001. She was one of the children born on 9/11, reports Tucson blogger David Abie Morales. And she is thereby featured in the book by Christine Pisera Naman, entitled Faces of Hope, Babies Born on 9/11, dedicated to all the mothers who gave birth and to their babies born on the day the World Trade Towers in New York City were taken down by an act of terrorism.

Ironically, today her life ended in violence, as she fell under the attack of a gunman at a political function at a supermarket.

More at LUN

Thomas

Don't let the bastards off that easy.

All day we hear it's a right-wing teabagger. When it turns out he's a left-wing radical in his politics, they notice that he's schizoid.

Too late.

If it was politics that did it, it was their politics. Those people who think change is coming too slowly, for example. Like Krugman, for example.

Yeah, it was politics. Their politics. Let them scrub for awhile, their hands aren't coming clean.

hit and run

I won't repeat my entire comment from the Saturday open thread...but I will re-post Christina's photo. God bless her family,and all the families whose lives were impacted.

http://static.globalgrind.com/i/CIT/I18/998/75.962139.jpg>

UGH.

Steve Diamond

Just keep in mind, folks, that many of us jumped all over the liberals when they ignored the obvious about Maj. Hasan's assault at Ft. Hood. They hooted and hollered about him being a lone crazed gun man and then it turned out he had a relationship with extremists, as many here and elsewhere thought was obvious from the beginning.

Andrew X

Ah, so we are also hearing the shooter refer to a politician as "stupid and unintelligent". Obviously further proof that he's a Teabagger. Tea Partiers are totally known for relentlessly questioning the intelligence of Democratic politicians and supporters, and for holding themselves up as inherently and obviously intellectually superior to such people and their......

Wait a minute...... um......

McCloud

Just keep in mind, folks, that many of us jumped all over the liberals when they ignored the obvious about Maj. Hasan's assault at Ft. Hood. They hooted and hollered about him being a lone crazed gun man and then it turned out he had a relationship with extremists, as many here and elsewhere thought was obvious from the beginning.

There are differences. We knew early on that Hasan had yelled 'allahu akbar' while shooting. He might have also been a nut, but every AQ soldier is not necessarily certifiable. Brainwashed maybe, or misguided, but not nuts. We are fighting thousands of Hasans at the moment in Afghan, Iran and Yemen. The left was clearly trying to paint that event as something it was not--"workplace violence", PTSD, etc, and ignoring the facts because they didn't want a domestic terror attack with Obama in office.

This Tuscon guy is all over the map ideologically. If he had yelled something about Palin or the Tea Party or been wearing a Gadsden flag t-shirt your analogy would be stronger.

Stephanie

They hooted and hollered about him being a lone crazed gun man and then it turned out he had a relationship with extremists, as many here and elsewhere thought was obvious from the beginning.

Assumes facts not in evidence from a liberal's point of view. They still deny the causal relationship and the dots that have been connected.

I don't think that anyone on this site needs to "keep anything in mind" so far on this incident. People who knew him are describing him as left wing. And crazy. Folks around here are watching the dots line up and following them to their logical conclusion. Other sites have their heads in the sand and no amount of evidence will change their minds and their glee as they mount up for their newest witch hunt.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

The friend who talked about Jared on Twitter said that he suffered alcohol poisoning in 2006. He would have been about 18 then. Can alcohol poisoning have lasting effects?

From the Tweets, he started to withdraw and become a recluse sometime in 2007.

Then his age is right on target for the onset of schizophrenia and, if that is the case, any kind of aberrational behavior is possible.

My roommate from way back in the '60s lost her elder son to suicide a few months after he was diagnosed as schizo. He checked into a sleazy motel, wrote letters to each parent and his 3 siblings and then blew his brains out. In his rambling letters, he told them he was doing his family a favor so they wouldn't have to care for a crazy guy or be embarrassed by crazy things he was going to do. He was 22 and in the Air Force 4 years when he was diagnosed as being in the early stage of the disorder.

Danube of Thought

Hey, so what if he's a leftist, or even a schizoid? The point is, it's the generalized climate of hate that made him act, and we all know where that comes from, right?

Andrew X

"it's the generalized climate of hate that made him act".

And the evidence for this pretty declaritive statement comes from...... where??

Stephanie

I believe that DOT was being just a tad bit facetious...

bgates

The point is, it's the generalized climate of hate that made him act, and we all know where that comes from, right?

Yep. Bad things in the climate come from BP.

many of us jumped all over the liberals when they ignored the obvious about Maj. Hasan

Beg pardon, Steve - since when do you separate "us" and "the liberals"? I thought you considered yourself one of "the liberals", who made common cause with what folks around here would call "us" against the hardcore Maoist left. Or maybe I'm not reading your comment right.

bgates

OK, a bit of history: right-wingers went wild over anyone who called 9/11 a tragedy, insisting that it wasn’t a tragedy, it was an atrocity.

It's a fair cop, Bush notwithstanding. Lots of people on the right gave Bush flak for his rhetorical choices in the War on a Tactic Which Could Have Been Used By Anybody and Certainly Had No Particular Connection to the Religion of Peace.

I thought "atrocity" was a more appropriate term for 9/11 for two reasons. First, it has stronger connotations of intentional evil. As much as I have to choke back sobs when I look at the picture of that beautiful little girl who was killed today, I have a hard time ascribing any kind of intent to her killer.

Second, "tragedy" has the sense of destroying those who are responsible for it. 9/11 only got 19 of the miserable bastards; there were a lot more who needed killing. I'm sure some people think today's events were an atrocity that will not be avenged until the champions of responsible political discourse throw the last talk radio host through the last plate glass window, but from my perspective there's really nobody else to go after. One wretched lunatic killed a lot of people and he'll never be able to hurt anybody again.

ROA


Why don’t people who are so intent on blaming things politicians have said for this tragedy ever mention rhetoric from Democrats and liberals including:

President Obama:

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”

And
"I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face."

Or John Kerry who said on the Bill Maher show: “I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.”

Or Howard Dean "I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for..."

and: "This is a struggle between good and evil and we're the good?"

and “we need to remember that the enemy here is George Bush, not each other.”

Or Senator Chuck Schumer who called a flight attendant a “bitch.”

Or the Florida Democrats who ran an ad calling for the assassination of Donald
Rumsfeld

Or New York State Comptroller Alan Hevesi who called for Senator Schumer to “put a bullet between the president’s eyes?”

Or Jonathan Chait who said "I hate President George W. Bush."

Or singer Rickie Lee Jones who aid of President Bush "You're an ignorant, low-class, opportunistic man, both personally and politically, who does everything for political gain and nothing for the wellbeing of the people, and you should not be in office, and the kind of fascism you're perpetrating on our country we don't want, and you're out. We're done with you. Ffffhgggmm."

And when asked if she would be willing to take Bush out for the benefit of democracy? "If I say that, I might get arrested when I go back. And I have to go home." She's thinking it out carefully. "I guess the question is, would I kill anyone? And the answer is, no. But would I feel sorry if someone killed him? No, I wouldn't. It would depend on who killed him, I guess."

Or "The Late Late Show with Craig Kilborn" where they superimposed the words "Snipers Wanted" over an image of Bush delivering his acceptance speech at the Republican convention.

Or Nobel Peace Prize winner Betty Williams who said she could kill President Bush?

Or Randi Rhodes who joked about killing the President?

Or Reverend Wright who called Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, Condoskeeza [sic] Rice.

Or England’s Charlie Brooker who wrote: “On November 2, the entire civilised world will be praying, praying Bush loses. And Sod's law dictates he'll probably win, thereby disproving the existence of God once and for all. The world will endure four more years of idiocy, arrogance and unwarranted bloodshed, with no benevolent deity to watch over and save us. John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, John Hinckley Jr - where are you now that we need you?”


Charlie (Colorado)

Sara, alcohol poisoning doesn't tend to have lots of lasting effects if you live.

From the stuff on his you tube, plus age and what we know of his history, I think it's plain old schizophrenia.

A diagnosis that became suddenly popular on twitter once it turned out he was a lefty.

Jack is Back!

Mornin' JOMers,

ROA, good list but surprised you were able to find it since it is not the type of stuff the MFM wants to let out to the general public. Doesn't fit the narrative.

I am wondering when they will release his medical history including what meds he was on. The clue will be if he was on Invega Sustenna or Geodon or Clozapine - szio treatments.

In any event, common sense (rare on the left) tells you this is a very sick, deranged young man who probably suffered from his illness for years if not since birth. For scuzzballs like Krugman and Lewis to make some kind of political play out of this is totally self-serving to their own warped agenda. Our prayers at the JiB household are with all the families affected by this tragedy/atrocity/mass murder/act of domestic terror/assassination (take your pick) and especially the Giffords family and the Congresswoman. Be strong, Gabby, and you will make it.

Jack is Back!

Clarice,

Get Hubby's WaPo and read Chris Cilliza. This is what he says about one of the 10 toughest house races in 2012:


3. Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.): West is almost certainly too conservative for this south Florida district and the early days of his congressional tenure suggest he has no plans to moderate. Republicans control the redistricting process and will try to firm up West unless a new ballot measure that passed this fall, which seeks to take all political considerations out of the line drawing process, makes such a move impossible. No matter what, West is in for a very difficult race.

bunkerbuster

The most obvious case is that the shooter's a right wingnut because he assassinated someone closely associated with opposing the wingnut's pet cause in Arizona: removing civil rights from undocumented workers.
The idea that someone anonymous "twitter" claiming he was left-wing is actually cited as evidence here shows just how scarce real evidence for the counterintuitive case that some nut would gun down a politician from his own side.

And thanks bgates, for illustrating for us all the fact that, for you, the definitions of words shift based exclusively on how they suit your politics. Your case for calling 9/11 an atrocity rests strictly on what you perceive to be the appropriate political reaction to the word. You've just confessed to being hopelessly politically correct.

jwest

According to the NY Times, Loughner shot Judge Roll first.

“Ms. Giffords had been talking to a couple about Medicare and reimbursements, and Judge Roll had just walked up to her and shouted “Hi,” when the gunman, wearing sunglasses and perhaps a hood of some sort, approached and shot the judge, Mr. Kimble said. “Everyone hit the ground,” he said. “It was so shocking.”

If this is accurate, it would appear he was the primary target of this radical liberal’s anger, not Congresswoman Giffords. Even crazy assassins tend to take out the most important (to them) target first.

Janet

My guess - he moved at the speed of reflexive hate.

Great line.

Neo

Representative Giffords' WikiPedia entry has her all over the map ... working on border security, gun owner who signed amicus brief in favor of Heller (to overturn DC gun ban) ...

Took another look .. it's been edited ... Doesn't say anything about gun owner anymore

Except for member of the Blue Dog Coalition, support for Arizona SB1070 and gun rights, she's a hard Leftie now.

I wonder why that happened.

everyday

Focusing on the dead kid and legacies is strange.This happens every day.These are just people who were at the wrong place wrong time.If they were worried about security it would have been there or they would have made it safer or skipped.So,do you think legacies,money and jobs are secured?Kennedy made Harvard billions in govt money.

Jane the hostage taker

So he lived at home with his parents. What do they have to say?

jimmyk

If we think of 9/11 as an act of war, then "tragic" does not seem to be the right word. On the other hand, if the gunman in Arizona is shown to be insane or schizophrenic, "tragic" seems appropriate. It's a word that seems to be used most often in situations where no one is culpable. It also can depend on the context: The loss of a spouse on 9/11 is tragic at an individual level, even if we wouldn't call the event tragic.

Bottom line: Krugman is a complete jerk.

Sue

Fox is reporting on a DHS memo claiming he is a member of American Rennaisance (not sure how to spell it). I have never heard of that group.

Sue

Twitter is claiming that American Renaissance has ties to the tea party through the John Birch Society. http://www.amren.com/>Here is their website.

Jack is Back!

jimmyk,

Krugman can't help himself. He is a firm believer in the Rahmistic system of never letting a crisis or tragedy or atrocity go to waste, politically. And isn't it amazing that the very people Lewis, Sullivan, Krugman, Kos, Dupnik who are tut-tutting vitriolic speech and poisoned politics are in fact the biggest offenders. The Blog Prof has an excellent rundown of such instances especially those proferred by the President himself. In fact, I challenge anyone to show me actual uttered qoutes as "violent" as those by Obama. I have never heard Rush or Beck or Palin use words like "enemies", "knives and guns", "get in their faces", etc.

And it didn't take long for Patterico to find a Kos post from 2008 with a target symbol pointing to Giffords asking for a primary challenge. Then I saw somewhere where they have found a couple of DNCC maps showing republican congresspeople as "targets". Its beyond hypocrisy its about permanent memory loss.

daveinboca

@bunkerbuster

The twitter poster kaitieparker is hardly anonymous and was a classmate of Loughner's as recently as 2007. Why don't you comb the outright lies and distortions out of your nutter posts? When the Panama City FL nutter shooter Duke turned out to be a fan of Think Process [sic] and Media Mutters, suddenly the subject changed and the story lost its legs. If you leftards didn't have double standards, you'd have no standards at all...!

Sue

It looks like the site is a racist site, with just a casual glance at it.

Neo

Damn, Representative Giffords' WikiPedia entry has been edited more than ... let's just say an awful lot since yesterday.

Sue

The web page has the gladsen flag at the very top of the page and a reference to the tea party. Anyone ever heard of it?

Sue

Anyone heard of Jared Taylor? He seems to be the main person at American Renassaince.

Jack is Back!

I forgot to post the LUN for the Blog Prof's expose on the DNCC using maps with targets. LUN

DaveinBoca can add this to his tabulation of double standards. Pretty soon, say by 10am today, he will probably be out of paper and have carpal tunnel syndrome.

daveinboca

Krugman is more than a jerk or a reflexive hater---he seems to be suffering from serial paranoid delustions of grandeur, a psychological precursor to schizophrenia that should be monitored. Sadly, much of the senior NYT editorial staff appear to suffer from the same syndrome of related afflictions...!

centralcal

Sue: Jennifer Griffith on FNC says the site is also very anti-semitic.

Extraneus

Bottom line: Krugman is a complete jerk.

Not just him, either. They do this every time. Clinton intimating that El Rushbo was responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing. Bloomberg speculating that the Times Square bomber was a disgruntled health care bill opponent. The first story from AP yesterday, just after the news broke, all but implied that Giffords' health care vote was responsible.

Leftists are implacable foes. They never stop fighting, and they never pass up an opportunity like this. If they can frame the meme in some people's minds that this guy was a right-wing nut, they win another skirmish; it doesn't matter what the actual truth is.

kate

This seems like a case where the narrative was predetermined months ago, and the media is working to fit this sad incident into the template.

Therefore, although mental illness seems to be the underlying cause; the media and the left will grab any association with the right to ensure it fits their template.

Very sad, actually.

Sue

C-cal,

I heard that earlier.

http://www.alternativeright.com/main/blogs/untimely-observations/no-great-awakening/>Jared Taylor's thoughts on Sarah Palin and the Tea Party.

The politicians Tea Partiers admire most are Sarah Palin, who has the racial consciousness of a fried egg, and Ron Paul, who flirted with heterodoxy years ago, but now claims to have put all that behind him.

I don't think he is a Palin fan.

Tom Maguire
The point is, it's the generalized climate of hate that made him act, and we all know where that comes from, right?

If a righty shoots someone, its because of Sarah Palin. If a lefty shoots someone, its because of Sarah Palin. (If a moose shoots Sarah Palin, its self-defense, and libs will applaud.)

I am confident an enhanced version of the Zapruder video will place Sarah at the grassy knoll in 1963. Or so Krugman will soon relate.

Jack is Back!

The ADL on Jared Taylor LUN. ADL says Taylor refrains from anti-semetic remarks.

And is anyone suspcious that the most left leaning American government in history can tell us that this guy is a member of an organization like AmRen? Coincidence?

narciso

AR, is clearly a Nazi site, a most wretched slur, imaginable

Angry Bird

"The most obvious case is that the shooter's a right wingnut ..."

For my part, I think by far the most obvious case is that he is badly deranged and (based upon the evidence coming from the shooter himself) of no coherent political belief. Sure, he loves Karl Marx, but does that mean he shot this woman because she supports gun rights and border security? No, he shot her because he is crazy. Did Hinckley shoot Reagan because the Gipper was conservative? I know of no conservative who says so.

But for some, it seems vitally important to ascribe to this guy--immediately, and on the basis of almost no facts at all--a political motive, inspired by political beliefs with which they differ. At the very bottom of the ooze,
where Paul Krugman and Jane Fonda feed, everything bad that happens must be traceable, and directly so, to a right-wing political motive.

congressclosed

Boner.nothing shll stop us fron fulfilling our oath:.......today....He put Congress on strike.Dont come to work next week.He wants more free security,raise,office for life.guaranteed jobs for family?

daveinboca

Extraneus: Way back in high school, I did a book report for my civics class [remember when civics was taught in schools?] on a book by J. Edgar Hoover, called The Big Lie which the FBI chief called the most effective weapon used by the USSR and its fellow travellers. Now Clinton's blaming Rush for Okla City and the rush to judgment over Loughner, whom high school classmates call a ultra-lefty angry at Giffords for her centrist views, to pin him as a righty. Anyone looking at his YouTube sites realizes that this dude is more than STRANGE, he is an out-and-out deranged individual, who mutters metaphysical koans about currency and creating alternate treasuries. A lot of pot can knock a dude's brain into a s**tpit where a lot of weird transformations can occur. A lot of posters on KOS seem to be borderline personality disorder sufferers and Keith Olbermann's rantings last night might offer fertile evidence to shrinks that KO is teetering on the edge of out-and-out nuttiness.

Tom Maguire

If I were t have an official editorial position on the shooter's politics and motivation it would be that he is either:

(a) a righty who shot a Dem associated with illegal immigration and health care reform;

(b) a far lefty who shot an accomodationist Blue Dog;

(c) a schizo star-shooter who shot the most famous person he could find in Pima AZ. If he wanted a headline in his way out, he succeeded.

If either (a) or (b) is correct, one wonders why he forgot to leave his manifesto where we could find it. What, he was motivated enough to kill a judge and a Congresswoman but not motivated enough to say why? Not even a tweet, or a final Facebook away message?

Which pushes me to (c).

congressstrikesformorejobsecurity

Congress agrees hes not a domestic terrorist.They went on strike.They wouldnt if he was.Hes not a lib or dem.Hes just an inasne guy who was mind taken to kill.Just a poor person who is sick.

Neo

It really gets me all the hateful speech that got this guy going ...

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun….” – Barack Obama

Boatbuilder

Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and Rush Limbaugh are all extremely well-known, are not shy about expressing their views, and have followers who proudly proclaim their support. I suppose that the same can be said (to a lesser degree) of Olbermann, et al; certainly Obama's legions aren't shy about it.

Nobody has found anything in this guy's rantings that mentions any of them--positively or negatively. Attributing this to the political beliefs and activities of any politically significant person or group is sheer projection and reflex.

I for one will say right now that if it turn out that the shooter was a dedicated progressive, it does not reflect on progressives (except those who have been quick to blame "the right") and vice-versa.

This country was founded on and survives because of freedom of speech, and the public pronouncement of strong and often harsh views and ideals. Blaming "a climate of hate" means telling everyone to keep their strong views, whatever they may be, bottled up, so that only what the elites feel is appropriate can be heard.

centralcal

Boatbuilder - Amen!

Jack is Back!

I don't see a climate of hate in any remarks from Rush, Beck, Palin, et. al. Boatbuilder is right - its free speech. Because Rush advocates Obama's agenda failure that is not hate. However, the bile that comes from guys like Olberman and Sullivan is pure hatred in its unadulterated form. Their attacks on Palin and her family would make them and their platforms paupers in the UK under their libel and slander laws. I doubt anything Rush or Beck or Palin have uttered reaches the gutter of libel and/or slander much less hate.

Captain Hate

The narrative was already in place. The commiecrats will use anything to derail the Tea Party and prop up Bammy. Court jesters like Krugman and Odormann are just doing their jobs. The victims of this are worth more to them dead and damaged than they were to them alive and intact.

Tom Maguire

To clarify my earlier comment - the guy did leave something like a manifesto or farewell message, but it is apparently incoherent; I would take a political motivation more seriously if he had a comprehensible explanation of his motivation.

Blaming "a climate of hate" means telling everyone to keep their strong views, whatever they may be, bottled up, so that only what the elites feel is appropriate can be heard.

Indeed. Libs are hoping this is 1994 and Obama can play this like the OK City bombing. Since this isn't, and Obama isn't Clinton, good luck with that.

Rob Crawford

The guy was a lefty before he was insane.

And, seriously, folks, anyone who blabbers about "racial consciousness" is a left-winger. They're the folks who demand we know everyone's "racial" mix down to the minutest fraction.

Rob Crawford

the guy did leave something like a manifesto or farewell message, but it is apparently incoherent

So are the comments of bunkerbuster and 'cleo, and they're obviously left-wingers.

centralcal

heh, Rob C.

Jack is Back!

All of this reminds me of the Bellamy Brother's "Life is a Bowl of Jalapenos". LUN

100waystoenjoypringles

Health care bill cant be stopped,strike.Its those damn omnibus things,,like that five year entitlements voted on just before pres elections.We need to finance and bill like that more........Lets go buy sprint at safeway!!!

Sue

Gretchen Carlson is barely holding it together during this interview. She might not have been the right person to do it.

Republicanswillgotoworkinspiteofstrike

He didnt have his documents(cause hes insane),so hes really an illegal alien.Its really not the person,its just the issue(cause he insane).Its really his family.....

Sue

They said last night we would either have heavy rain or heavy snow, we were borderline on the temperature. Heavy snow is the winner. It is coming down in huge flakes and I'm surprised I still have internet service.

centralcal

Gretchen did alright, Sue. I think the mother appreciated her heartfelt empathy.

Sue

She made it through, but just barely. I'm sure the mother appreciated it.

MarkO

If the shooter had been the Chairman of the Republican Party that would not make Obama’s administration any better; it would not make Obamacare a panacea; it would not mean that unemployment would end next week; it would not exonerate the DOJ’s racism; it would not constitute a “clear and present danger” so as to permit the FCC to pull Rush and attempt jurisdiction over Fox. It would mean that the killer was a Republican. Contrast with AQ: their stated mission is to kill.

I remember when Time magazine suggested that we were all responsible for JFK’s murder. I didn’t enter a plea because I was a juvenile. I also remember when shame existed and acted on reasonable people. For the left, in its extremis, shame has fled. They will use anything.

Finally, while I find Glen Beck’s theory of top-down, bottom-up to be at the far reaches of paranoia, this shooting and the left’s immediate response seems to fit the pattern perfectly. Particularly the left’s calls for the need for controlling speech. I cannot recall an administration more involved in censorship and the chilling of speech than this one.

I want to watch the pattern of attack from the left, knowing it has nothing to do with the truth.

OldTimer

Heartrending. Gretchen pulled it together at the end of the interview, but all of us listening to this devastated mother, who lost her daughter to a madman's bullet, are heartened by the mother's words and her ability to surrender to her loss through her faith in the Almighty.

It's as if our world has a shifting fog of spiritual evil hanging over it, and those who grovel in it, absorbing its delusions and hallucinations, are certain that those who refuse to enter the fog with them are the 'evil' ones. The words written in many of our national publications today, determining without any facts to 'blame' this event on their political opponents is an indication of just how dense and pervasive the fog has become.

Jane the hostage taker

On Fox News Sunday James Clyburn says he wants more money for congress' security and a repeal of TSA rules for elected officials. As I said Over at You Too, I guess the talking points have been established.

Sue

How nice is it that our president is using this "tragedy" for political reasons? The release of pictures depicting him in charge are the work of his new CoS, according to Martha McCallum at Fox.

bunkerbuster

My position is that we don't know what motivated the shooter. I merely pointed out that the most obvious motive is right-wing politics, given his choice of victims.
I always reserve judgment until the facts are at hand. There really is no other way for me.

XYZ

Indeed. Libs are hoping this is 1994 and Obama can play this like the OK City bombing. Since this isn't, and Obama isn't Clinton, good luck with that.

Posted by: Tom Maguire | January 09, 2011 at 09:35 AM

Almost Prophetic, heh?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/mark-penn-says-obama-needs-similar-event-to-oklahoma-city-to-reconnect-with-voters/
Snip:Penn noted that it took the Oklahoma City tragedy in order for President Clinton to “reconnect” with the American people.

He then stepped off the cliff by saying that President Obama needed a “similar event” to achieve that reconnection following his party’s midterm losses.

Danube of Thought

I remember when Time magazine suggested that we were all responsible for JFK’s murder.

Time Magazine? Hell, even the Rolling f***ing Stones did it, and not just for JFK but RFK as well:

I shouted out who killed the Kennedys
When after all it was you and me

I wasn't a juvenile, but I was in Sasebo, Japan for the first hit, and Binh Thuy, Vietnam for the second. Hey, Mick, I've got an alibi!

Sue

He shot a conservative democrat and a conservative judge. Why is it obvious that his motive was right-wing politics? It points to the opposite to me.

Captain Hate

I also remember when shame existed and acted on reasonable people. For the left, in its extremis, shame has fled. They will use anything.

Speaking of shame, has anybody talked to this lunatic's parents? I know that he's an adult blah blah blah; but they're the ones who had the closest contact with this monster as he was growing up and surely would've been aware of any antisocial tendencies. If he were my child I'd certainly be mortified at my role in inflicting him on society. I realize that they're not responsible per se for what he does when removed from their direct care, but I would certainly feel a sense of shame if I were either of them.

centralcal

I thought I read somewhere this morning that the Judge was the first one shot. Am I mistaken?

Sue

C-cal,

I think so, but him being there was a coincidence. He was going to the grocery store after attending Mass. He went over and said hello to the congresswoman and was shot. At least that is what was being reported last night.

Captain Hate

Hey, Mick, I've got an alibi!

Mick was in the process of kicking drug-soaked Brian Jones out of the band so maybe he was projecting his sense of future guilt. Taking ethical directives from rock stars may have been the most laughable hubristic trait of the Sixties, although there were so many...

Sue

That little girl is beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.

Cecil Turner

I don't recall a lot of dispute over use of the word "tragedy" for 9/11. The ridiculous avoidance of "terrorism" was more newsworthy (and even that didn't seem to have legs), as when promulgated by the Secretary of Homeland Security:

The same Napolitano who initially portrayed the near-miss on Christmas as a vindication did her utmost to avoid even uttering the word “terror” at a congressional hearing earlier this year, preferring the absurd neologism “man-caused disaster.”

clarice

Capt Hate, ever since Dr Szasz persuaded liberals that there was no such thing as mental illness and courts agreed that as long as a person was not an immediate threat to himself and others (which he usually isn't when on meds) parents have little control over psychotic children older than 18 and schizophrenia usually doesn't manifest itself until after that.

Danube of Thought

I think we'll ultimately discover that this guy is an Identity Mahometan.

TryNoNo.com

Congress wants term limits.The strike is real,so how do we get our benefits?O does this.

hit and run

Daniel Hernandez was an intern for Rep. Giffords for just five days when the shooting happened. When the shooter began shooting,Daniel Hernandez ran toward the gun fire to help others. He ended up cradling Giffords and applying pressure to her wound until medical help arrived.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/09/20110109daniel-hernandez-gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting.html>Daniel Hernandez probably saved Gabrielle Giffords' life.

clarice

ROA, that's a superb compilation.

Captain Hate

Legal Insurrection has a good post on some of the topics dicussed in this thread.

hit and run

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/09/20110109gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting.html>AZCentral:

...authorities said ... they were examining evidence they said made it clear that Giffords was the intended victim. ... Police believe he came to the constituent meeting with another individual identified only as a White male in his 50s.

clarice

A woman I know co-authored a fabulous book on how the mental institutions in America were dismantled and the tragic consequences for the families and other victims of psychotics.

As I recall, she said if you have a child like this your best bet is to drive him across the border to Canada where he can be institutionalized. The authors did note that Wisconsin had seemed to work out the best system--judges would release these people who had displayed threats of violence but were not threats when medicated only to half way houses where they were carefully monitored to assure they were taking the meds. If they failed to do so, they were incarcerated.

what happens elsewhere is that they are taken into custody, evaluated, given meds and when they make their next court appearance the judge is forced to release them because at that point they are not an immediate threat to themselves or others.

sbw

Tee hee!

Mark Perry at Carpe Diem delightfully, snarkily, writes, "Thanks to recent developments in economics (most visibly signaled by Paul Krugman's winning the 2009 Nobel Prize posthumously) .. ."

Referencing Donald Liuskin's 2008 Krugman slam in the National Review.

PaulL

Hit and Run,

That's inspiring stuff, about Hernandez running toward the gunshots.

Captain Hate

Wasn't the dismantling done at the Carter administration's behest; or did it start before that?

diIstracting ourselves with small talk

It's a little early to assign blame for the act, but it is not too late to accept the danger of continuing to poison the well of american politics;

I have noticed a reluctance on the part of the Right to condemn codewords that incite the nutbags (and they are Legion) to acts such as this;

Insurrection, taking 'our' country back, flying the confederate flag. secession, all bring images of past violence seeming to endorse such as acceptable,

It's time for us to condemn violence as the answer to political or social frustration.

We just witnessed the PEACEFUL transfer of power.

Let's all pledge CONDEMNATION for such acts

clarice

You could be right, Capt. I haven't the book handy and it's been a while since I read it, but as I recall conservatives weren't unhappy about the development and didn't fight it because closing down these institutions saved a lot of money in state budgets.
To make the clear and present civil libertarian stance fit medical reality (psychotic patients may be ok on meds but usually refuse to take them once on their own) more states should adopt the Wisconsin law and program.

clarice

I call B.S. diIstracting--vigorous political rhetoric is the life blood of democracy nd it is not confined to the right. ROA has nicely compiled some truy outrageous left wing rhetoric for us:
Why don’t people who are so intent on blaming things politicians have said for this tragedy ever mention rhetoric from Democrats and liberals including:

President Obama:

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”

And
"I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face."

Or John Kerry who said on the Bill Maher show: “I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.”

Or Howard Dean "I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for..."

and: "This is a struggle between good and evil and we're the good?"

and “we need to remember that the enemy here is George Bush, not each other.”

Or Senator Chuck Schumer who called a flight attendant a “bitch.”

Or the Florida Democrats who ran an ad calling for the assassination of Donald
Rumsfeld

Or New York State Comptroller Alan Hevesi who called for Senator Schumer to “put a bullet between the president’s eyes?”

Or Jonathan Chait who said "I hate President George W. Bush."

Or singer Rickie Lee Jones who aid of President Bush "You're an ignorant, low-class, opportunistic man, both personally and politically, who does everything for political gain and nothing for the wellbeing of the people, and you should not be in office, and the kind of fascism you're perpetrating on our country we don't want, and you're out. We're done with you. Ffffhgggmm."

And when asked if she would be willing to take Bush out for the benefit of democracy? "If I say that, I might get arrested when I go back. And I have to go home." She's thinking it out carefully. "I guess the question is, would I kill anyone? And the answer is, no. But would I feel sorry if someone killed him? No, I wouldn't. It would depend on who killed him, I guess."

Or "The Late Late Show with Craig Kilborn" where they superimposed the words "Snipers Wanted" over an image of Bush delivering his acceptance speech at the Republican convention.

Or Nobel Peace Prize winner Betty Williams who said she could kill President Bush?

Or Randi Rhodes who joked about killing the President?

Or Reverend Wright who called Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, Condoskeeza [sic] Rice.

Or England’s Charlie Brooker who wrote: “On November 2, the entire civilised world will be praying, praying Bush loses. And Sod's law dictates he'll probably win, thereby disproving the existence of God once and for all. The world will endure four more years of idiocy, arrogance and unwarranted bloodshed, with no benevolent deity to watch over and save us. John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, John Hinckley Jr - where are you now that we need you?”


Posted by: ROA | January 09, 2011 at 04:08 AM__________

Perhaps if you read before robo posting you'd have noticed it.

Captain Hate

You could be right, Capt. I haven't the book handy and it's been a while since I read it, but as I recall conservatives weren't unhappy about the development and didn't fight it because closing down these institutions saved a lot of money in state budgets.

Hmmm, I don't know if I'd summarize the "conservative" response quite that way from my memories; it seemed like something the libertarians were stumping for. I believe the homeless problem exploded after that yet nobody seemed capable of connecting the dots.

Jim Ryan

Distracting is in the running for stupidest comment of the new decade.

I guess the little girl died for a reason, to you. She gave you a chance to condemn conservative rhetoric. The fact that the perp was simply an insane person makes no difference to you. You want to change the topic to condemning convervative rhetoric.

What kind of a person who do such a thing?

Jane the hostage taker

Watched Meet the press where a group of congresspeople were preaching Kumbaya. Even that hateful Debbie Wasserman Schultz said they should be nicer to each other. Then it was fun watchin Harry Reid malign the tea party.

It seems to me, all the democrats have is hate. They can't function without it.

Rick Ballard

Clarice,

My compliments on another fine Pieces. Let's hope that Congress pulls the plug on CO2 Monster research.

I have sincere doubts regarding the probability that the murdering scum in Tucson has been diagnosed and is being treated for schizophrenia. A scroll through the comments (emesis basin in hand) on this ZeroHedge piece reveals the popularity of the anarcho-nihilist POV. The murdering scum in Tucson would fit right in there in terms of rage and incoherence.

diIstracting ourselves with small talk

White extremists, angry at the passage of health care reform, are mobilizing to punish the Godless Democratic lawmakers who are responsible for the coming of Armageddon. The FBI is involved after a series of death threats. Here are some highlights.

Right-wing nutjobs have graduated from simply yelling racial and homophobic slurs at Democratic lawmakers, to direct action. Bricks have been thrown through windows of several Democratic Party offices, some with Barry Goldwater (?!) quotes attached.

Virginia Congressman Tom Perriello's brother had the gas line to his home severed after Tea Partiers posted the wrong address on the internet. They were encouraging people to visit Perriello and "express their thanks," for his ‘yes' vote. The AP spoke with one of the organizers:

Nigel Coleman, chairman of the Danville Tea Party, said he re-posted the comment that originated on another conservative blog, including the address, Monday on his Facebook page. The posts were taken down after the mistake was discovered.

"We've never been associated with any violence or any vandalism," he said. "We're definitely sorry that we posted the incorrect address."

Representative Bart "Baby Killer" Stupak received a voicemail that said:

I hope you bleed ... (get) cancer and die."

And then he got a fax that read:

All Baby Killers come to unseemly ends Either by the hand of man or by the hand of God."

Missouri Rep. Russ Carnahan found a coffin on his lawn. And these are just a few of the incidents so far. But hey, this is just freedom of expression, the way the Founding Fathers intended!

Republican John Boehner has denounced the threats and violence, but Democrats are demanding that he come out stronger in his condemnation of the wackos in his own party.

Earlier this week, Times columnist Bob Herbert offered this analysis:

The toxic clouds that are the inevitable result of the fear and the bitter conflicts so relentlessly stoked by the Republican Party - think blacks against whites, gays versus straights, and a whole range of folks against immigrants - tend to obscure the tremendous damage that the party's policies have inflicted on the country."

(CBS)
WASHINGTON (CBS/AP) Political pundits knew health care reform was going to upset critics and the "tea party" contingent, but they probably didn't expect things to get violent.

The Democratic leadership in Congress is decrying recent "acts of violence" against 10 House Democrats and one Republican, including one report of a cut gas line at the house of the brother of one member of Congress.

The most recent report came from US Rep. Harry Mitchell, AZ, whose spokesman, Adam Bozzi, said in a statement that the congressman received physical threats, including threats on his life, both before and after a vote on health care reform.

A brick was thrown through the window of the district office of Democratic Congresswoman Louise Slaughter in Niagara Falls, in upstate New York, while Bart Stupak, the conservative Democrat whose deal with the White House on abortion funding curbs provided the crucial last few votes for passage of the bill, reported getting calls from people wishing that he "bleed, get cancer and die."

Representative James Clyburn, the highest ranking black lawmaker, said he received a fax with an image of a noose.

Even the families of representatives aren't immune to the backlash, apparently. The Albemarle County Fire Marshal's Office and the FBI have concluded, in a joint statement, that a severed gas line outside of the house of Rep. Tom Perriello's (D-Va.) brother was "an act of vandalism." Perriello supported the overhaul measure and an activist involved in the "tea party" movement reportedly posted the brother's address on an internet forum - apparently thinking it was the congressman's - and urged angry opponents to pay him a visit.

House Republican Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, says he knows that people are angry but denounced the disturbing trend, saying, "Threats and violence should not be part of a political debate."

clarice

roll alert on Aisle 3.

clarice

ahem*Troll alert*

Jim Ryan

Creigh Deeds shows himself to be a little worm, as usual.

There's a reason McDonnell got 60%, and with all due respect to him, it wasn't McDonnell.

clarice

Thanks, Rick,

Troll, why not just post the url to whatever you are copying and avoid a copyright infringement problem?

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