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March 23, 2011

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Janet

because he ran a really big and unprecedented campaign.

I don't think he ran it. He just participated in it & played his role.
'Hey! I need a new script writer! The plot line is falling apart!'

Assassination? regime change? canape, anyone?

I want to laugh, but it is all too tragic...

Sara (Pal2Pal)

There's is no "special relationship" with the American people.

Worse, he sees no reason why he should, afterall we are always the bad guy, and there is nothing exceptional about America. I think he is ashamed of being an American.

hit and run

COL. NATHAN H. OBAMA: Son, we live in a world that has committees, and those committees have to be attended by men with legal pads. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Speaker Boehner? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for your precious Constitution, and you curse turning over military authority in the name of multilateralism. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That sidestepping the Constitution, while tragic, probably saved a lot of effort on my part and will hopefully help me avoid blame should it all go wrong. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, means beautifully detailed PowerPoint presentations. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me delegating my staff to be on those committees, you need me assigning underlings to that committee. We use words like “grave concern that order be restored” and “sustainable international consensus”. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent discussing something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very white papers that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide them. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a three ring binder over there on the conference table, pick a seat, and please put your cell phone on mute. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

Janet

Clarice, You could just write up the timeline & the tragic comedy would write itself.
8am...Samba lesson
8:10am ...announce Q'add'a'f'i must go
8:15...care deeply about Brazilian kids
8:30...drop bombs on Libya
8:35...don't target Q'add'a'ff'i but burn up his "bad" kid
8:45...tell America what you are doing
8:47...announce that whatever this is, it is ending
8:50...Gates announces that whatever this is, it will take awhile
etc.

clarice

Excellent, hit. I'll blog that.

Janet, good idea but I can't keep up.

Rocco

Senator Clinton Says Bush Must Ask Congress Before Using Force Against Iran H/T maggief

Pelosi: Bush needs approval to invade Iran H/T maggief

Obama, Biden, Clinton, Pelosi, any more?


 centralcal

War, what war?

via Breaking News Twitter:

Arabiya TV reports air strikes on Gadhafi compound in Tripoli - Reuters

daddy

Too many damn threads dammitall. Gotta' go to work, but am going to have to stay up all night trying to catch up. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

lyle

Excellent, hit. Dare I call it...iowahawkesque? No higher compliment may I pay you when it comes to parody.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

So he has no plans to give his Nobel Prize back and he rationalizes it thusly:

The Politico reported:

President Obama defended his Nobel Peace Prize on Tuesday, saying that Americans “don’t see any contradiction” in him ordering an attack on Libya to make sure “people aren’t butchered because of a dictator who wants to cling to power.”

“When I received that award, I specifically said there was an irony because I was already dealing with two wars,” Obama said in an interview with CNN from El Salvador. “So I am accustomed to this contradiction of being both a commander-in-chief but also someone who aspires to peace.”

Saying he is focused on ensuring that Libyans can “live out their own aspirations,” Obama defended America’s involvement in Libya, saying, “we’re not invading a country, we’re not acting alone – we’re acting under a mandate issued by the United Nations Security Council in an unprecedented fashion and with unprecedented speed.”

And he said again that the U.S. military has already saved lives there. “I think the American people don’t see any contradiction in somebody who cares about peace also wanting to make sure that people aren’t butchered because of a dictator who wants to cling to power,” he said.

He sure likes that word cling, doesn't he?

Janet

From Newsbird...The end of vacation.

a comment said it looked like she made off with a tablecloth from somewhere! Hah! I don't get the unfinished shoes either...but that's just me.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

we’re acting under a mandate issued by the United Nations Security Council in an unprecedented fashion and with unprecedented speed.”

Say what? Unprecedented? Was this man engaged at all in 2001, 2002, 2003?

Jane

Boy David plouffe must be really really busy.

maryrose

I would respect him more if he gave his Peace Prize back.He doesn't deserve it. He doesn't respect our country or all the hard work it took to create it. Let him go be a citizen of the world and leave us alone so we can clean up the mess he has made for the last 2+ years.
To watch him flailing about on an international stage is sickening.We need the old Vaudeville hook to get him off the stage and away from a microphone.

Porchlight

In 2003, we were "rushing to war," and that was a bad thing. Even though it was months of deliberation after the dictator in questions had violated numerous UN resolutions.

In 2011, we're acting under a UN mandate "with unprecedented speed," and that is a good thing. Or something.

hit and run

Taranto:

Somebody--not clear if it was a foreign leader or just a follower--said on Twitter: "Barack Obama has now fired more cruise missiles than all other Nobel Peace prize winners combined."

Don't worry. I set him straight on where that phrase came from...

Sara (Pal2Pal)

DOT: You are going to love this one. NOT.

The Chief of Naval Operations: We're not sure what the next step is in Libya.

Hell of a way to try to run an operation.

maryrose

United Arab Emirates are out of the coalition because they don't like how Bahrain was treated. See Obama , a lot can happen while you are Vacaying.

Danube of Thought

As i understand it, 95% of the sorties thus far have been flown by the US. We fired 120 Tomahawks; the Brits fired 12 (thus depleting 20% of their total arsenal). American B-2's dropped 105 1,000-pound bombs.

But for God's sake, don't accuse us of leading this thing.

Lots of lives are at stake. These people are crazy.

maryrose

It's Hillary one note now repeating her mantra of Gaddafi must step down and leave-Hello he's not going to do that.Your intel on that is faulty...

Porchlight

hit, I think Taranto was quoting Politico:

“Barack Obama has now fired more cruise missiles than all other Nobel Peace prize winners combined.”

Exactly who said that first is unclear, but at some point over the weekend, the line began circulating around Twitter.

Since President Obama announced Friday that he had ordered an attack on Muammar Qadhafi’s forces in Libya, he has attracted plenty of new critics, including lawmakers in his party. Now, some foreign leaders are asking that the Nobel Committee take back the peace prize it awarded Obama in 2009.

bgates is getting pretty freaking famous. :)

Porchlight

Also, I think Taranto didn't really get that it was a joke/parody of the left. Maybe that's because the lefties who tweeted and retweeted it didn't really get it, either.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

My sentiments exactly:

Victor Davis Hanson: Under Bush, we were the world’s policeman. Under Obama, the world’s Keystone Kops

 centralcal

Janet: Michelle Antoinette simply must be assured that all eyes are upon her - favorably or unfavorably.

Did you see how she looked the night before? The white slip/dress?

Both are narcissists, not just B.O. alone.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Another from Insty. Milbank tries so hard to spin Obomba's dithering and incompetence, but somehow he cannot quite even convince himself.

DANA MILBANK: Obama’s Quick Trip From Tyrant To Weakling. It’s not really a trip. He’s always been thuggish at home and ineffectual abroad. The two faces of Obama are just more clearly juxtaposed, lately.

narciso

The thing if it was Jorge Ramos, who interviewed him, and that's likely, he's David Gregory with a Spanish accent, that much of a hack,

clarice

A little sherbet-

Once, decades ago I was flying home from Paris. At the time it was very hard to get French cheese here and there was a great delicacy shop at CDG airport. Everyone asked me to bring them stuff. As I was lugging around all this junk in big packages, I ran into Elizabeth Taylor and George Hamilton both tanned and elegant looking.(Reportedly they'd just come from some Swiss fat off spa.) They stopped at the Cartier stand, bought a few tiny packages of things, slipped them in their pockets and continued to the boarding area .

hit and run

Thanks for the Tatle,clarice. And lyle you are overly-generous,but thanks as well.

Ranger

Well, it looks like Speaker Boehner takes his responsibilities seriously:

Boehner to Obama: On Libya, ‘Many Other Members of the House of Representatives Are Troubled’

One part I particularly like:

...In fact, the limited, sometimes contradictory, case made to the American people by members of your Administration has left some fundamental questions about our engagement unanswered. At the same time, by contrast, it appears your Administration has consulted extensively on these same matters with foreign entities such as the United Nations and the Arab League.

The majority of the letter is a long series of questions that should have been dealt with before the first bomb was dropped.


matt

hammering Peace Prizes into swords?

This translation of Obama's speech in San Salvadorjust in:

"I would like to thank the people of El Segundo for coming out today to greet me ecstatically. I am a big supporter of the FMLN, uh,I mean El Segundian government....

I am sure that you and your allies in Brazil, Venezuela, Nicaragua and throughout South America will usher in a new era of good relations with the People of Lincoln Park, Manhattan,Austin, and Berkeley.

Your people have established an excellent record of participation in our sanctuary cities and our Democratic Party of which you should be justly proud. I am pleased to announce a shovel ready program for El Segundian studies at UC Calexico.

As El Segundians continue to immigrate to our country dressed as United States Marines named Perez we will welcome you as our own, just so long as you remember match our socks properly, not mix colors and whites, and remember to water the begonias.

Michelle wanted to address you on her healthy El Segundo initiative, but she's backstage at the barbecue. Your empanedas are simply fabulous. Thank you, and may whichever god you follow bless you....

Boatbuilder

How the hell does Obama know anything about whether the American people see any contradiction between the Nobel and his actions regarding Libya--and why does he care? The American people weren't consulted about this, and if it's the right military decision for the country they probably shouldn't be-that's what real presidents are supposed to decide, political popularity be damned. As far as this American person is concerned we don't have any freaking idea what the hell is going on, and it looks like our president doesn't either. We don't care if the right decisions might make you look bad since you got the Nobel Peace Prize. You are not the President of Nobel. Take responsibility for your own decisions, Mr. President. Lead.

hit and run

Ranger:
Well, it looks like Speaker Boehner takes his responsibilities seriously

Oh that's too good. Read Boehner's letter to Obama first -- and then Col. Nathan H. Obama's statement as his response to Boehner.

Ann

Photobucket

“She Can’t Handle The Truth”

Sara, I am surprised her shoes aren't red. ::wink::

maryrose

Boatbuilder:
You said it far more eloquently than our erstwhile reporting class.Remember in Obama world "it's always about him" He's the center of the universe.

Phony Ideology

It's interesting watching right-wingers cobble
for position that's consistent with their war-like nature as they piece together another
opposition to anything the Prez might do.

When Saddam was exterminating the Shiite Marsh Arabs and the Kurds, Bush I left them twisting in the wind.

But when Dubya saw an opportunity to respond to Saddam's apocryphal hit on Daddy, that was
sufficient for Nation Building with a trillion in cash and thousands of our military.

No matter the issue, Gopers say 'red' when Obama says 'blue'.

Your consistency is spot-on for opinions on Obama. All else, not so much

maryrose

Hey Phony:
Your man Obama keeps proving us right about him He is the big goof we thought he was and his foreign policy stinks.

Ignatz

So cleo was against interventionist imperialism before he was for it.

What a euphonious appellation, phony.

DebinNC

Top 10 Rejected Obama Mission Names that lost out to Odyssey Dawn.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I'm actually beginning to take pity on these poor hoodwinked Obomba supporters. They are trying so hard to keep up the facade.

I'd like to tell Phony I feel his pain, but not really, as I wasn't dumb enough to buy into the Obomba manufactured image in the first place.

Ranger

And another famously anti-war Dem jumps on the Libya war bandwagon:

Howard Dean: You know what’s sometimes worth doing? Military intervention in the Middle East

see for yourself the depths to which this guy will sink to defend interventionism once there’s a Democrat giving the “go” order in the Middle East instead of a Republican.

Rob Crawford

Sara, I am surprised her shoes aren't red. ::wink::

Wearing all the grey, I'm surprised no one's thrown a mahout on her back.

 centralcal

Okay, everyone needs a really good laugh. The link takes us to iOwnTheWorld and a training video for a future Obama administration advisor (okay, not true):

If he would just work this hard to get a job

Rick Ballard

Action against Saddam in GWI was constrained by the parameters of the UN resolution passed on the occasion of the invasion of Kuwait. The coalition was not granted the mandate to kill or remove him - the murderous lying thieves of the UN preferred to progressively rob and starve the Iraqi people rather than remove the source of their misery.

Tranzi progs are as predictable as sunrise.

I would note that the dance being performed regarding Daffy arises from similar constraints. The UN resolution, once again, mandates "protecting" the traitorous scum who rejected Daffy's one time and one time only offer of mercy if they surrendered but does not countenance the removal or killing of Daffy. Nothing much will be said if he happens to be killed while the Mohametan beggars are being protected but none of the circle of jerk clowns running this pathetic circus are supposed to declare killing him as an objective.

There hasn't been a day in the past forty years when killing Daffy would have been other than a good thing and it is my hope that he and his sons wind up in the hottest place in hell before this farce collapses. If they do, it won't be on account of BOzo having 'planned' for it to happen.

Phony Ideology

"If they do, it won't be on account of BOzo having 'planned' for it to happen."

No, indeed.

Thank you, Wikileaks.

Rick Ballard

You do resemble Ass Mange, Cleo. Do you share the same diseases?

Rick Ballard

i

MarkO

More from Tranto, quoting the First Idiot:

"Our hope is that the first thing that happens once we clear this space is that the rebels start discussing how they're able to organize themselves, how they articulate their aspirations for the Libyan people," Obama said. . . . In particular, Obama said he hoped that the Libyan people decide it was time for a change that ends up sweeping Gadhafi from power.

Kumbaya in C major.

Phony Ideology

Words fail you, once again, eh, Marmalard?

narciso

No, more likely Quaradawi's fatwa, I'm surprised it took Abu Yahya al Libi, this
long to do a shout out to his brethren

PD

He's the center of the universe.

The bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral.

clarice

Another scoop of sherbet.

I ran into Elizabeth Taylor once again. When she was married to then Senator Warner. Her contribution to his political life was her volunteer work for Wolf Trap Farm Park where my husband was the counsel and a board member. She planned one of the early benefit dinners and it was gorgeous, the talent was spectacular(liza Minelli, etc), the tables were fantastic--a little rain but the show went on --And in a rehearsal for it, she slipped on the stage and almost fell into my husband's arms.

Rick Ballard

Narciso,

Having the Muslim Brotherhood as part of the coalition is a good thing, right? The more the merrier and all that. Have you seen any tweets about Quaradawi's unfriending of Daffy?

PD

Ron Johnson's WSJ editorial on ObamaCare.

maryrose

I saw Howard Dean on Morning Joe and was stunned to hear him parroting the WH talking points. Someone is angling for a job in Obumbumbo's administration.

Phony Ideology

Richard Falk has some words for y'all


"The moral interventionists, who were in control during the Bush II years, triumphantly reemerged in the company of hawkish Democrats such as Hilary Clinton and Joseph Biden, eventually prevailed in the debate, probably thanks to the push from London and Paris, the acquiescence of the Arab neighbours, and the loss of will on the part of Moscow and Beijing.

It is hard to find a war that Republicans do not endorse, especially if the enemy can be personalised and demonised as Gaddafi has been, and there is some oil in the ground!

The anti-interventionists, who doubt the current effectiveness of hard power tactics, especially under Western auspices, were outmanoeuvred, especially at the United Nations and in the sensationalist media that confused the Gaddafi horror show for no brainer/slam dunk reasoning as to the question of intervention, treating it as a question of 'how', rather than 'whether', again failing to fulfil their role in a democratic society by giving no attention to the anti-intervention viewpoint.

Extraneus

Okay, everyone needs a really good laugh.

That was the best laugh I've had since the Rick James skit on the Chapelle Show.

PD

Someone seems to be fantasizing that there is some unity of opinion among Republicans whether we ought to be in Libya.

clarice

what if people think it was a good idea to get rid of Gaddafi but it should have been done fast and quick and without all this diddling and multinationalism fustercluckery? Can you fit that in your Manichaean world view?

matt

when is an interventionist not an interventionist?

When he/she is a liberal democrat, of course.

Phony Ideology

Here's some results from your 'interventionist days' before you were 'born-again'

Your legacy of mindless acceptance of Republican ventures:

"March 19 marks the eighth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, a nation that had no weapons of mass destruction and was not involved in the 9/11 attacks.

It was sold to the American public as a war to defend our nation and free the Iraqi people.

US deputy secretary of defence Paul Wolfowitz said our soldiers would be greeted as liberators and that Iraqi oil money would pay for the reconstruction.

Vice president Dick Cheney said the military effort would take "weeks rather than months". And assistant defence secretary Ken Adelman predicted that "liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk".

Eight years on, it's time to look back at that "cakewalk".
4,400 US soldiers lost

More than 4,400 Americans have died as a result of the invasion and occupation of Iraq – more than the 3,000 killed on 9/11.

Over 32,000 US soldiers have been seriously wounded, many kept alive thanks to the miracle of modern medicine. But those numbers don't tell the half of it.

Stanford University and Naval Postgraduate School researchers who examined the delayed onset of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) found that by 2023 the rate of PTSD among Iraq war veterans could rise to as high as 35 per cent.

And for the second year in row, more soldiers committed suicide in 2010 than died in combat, a tragic but predictable human reaction to being asked to kill – and watching your friends be killed.
Bankrupting the nation

In 2008, Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz and Harvard University's Linda Blimes put the cost of the Iraq war at roughly $3tn, or about 60 times what the Bush administration first said the invasion would cost.

While a staggering figure, Stiglitz and Blimes now say that their estimate "was, if anything, too low".

In an update published last fall in The Washington Post, they note that the war not only drove up the federal debt, but helped drive the skyrocketing oil prices that contributed to the crashing of the global economy.

According to the National Priorities Project, the money the US government spent destroying Iraq could have provided annual salaries for 12.5 million teachers or paid the annual healthcare costs for 167 million Americans.

When elected officials tell us our nation is bankrupt, we should tell them to bring our war dollars home.
Hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis

The people who have suffered the most from the Iraq "cakewalk" are Iraqi citizens.

For an invasion sold as an act of liberation and of "profound morality" by propagandists like Jeffrey Goldberg, the US and its allies sure managed to kill a staggering number of those they were liberating.

The organisation Iraq Body Count (IBC) has documented at least 99,900 violent civilian deaths as a direct result of the US-led invasion.

But that's an extremely conservative estimate based largely on deaths reported in Western media, an approach bound to undercount the massive death toll from the invasion.

Indeed, as WikiLeaks revealed last October, the US government covered up the violent killings of more than 15,000 Iraqi civilians – killings that weren't reported by any Western paper which amounted to roughly 20 per cent of IBC's official count at the time.

Unfortunately, the number of dead Iraqis is likely a lot higher than IBC's count.

A 2006 study by researchers at Johns Hopkins University published in the Lancet medical journal found that in just over three years there were 654,965 "excess Iraqi deaths as a consequence of the war", with Iraq's death rate more than doubling due to gunfire – the leading cause of mortality – as well as lack of medicine and clean water.

Then a 2008 analysis by British polling firm Opinion Research Business estimated "that over 1,000,000 Iraqi citizens have died as a result of the conflict which started in 2003".

PD

There exist people who still flog that Lancet study?

Extraneus

Come on, everyone knows Obama's been pining for an opportunity to show some balls. It doesn't matter that he in fact likes Q'a'daffy, as does his preacher of 20 years, baptizer of his kids, author of the title of his book, not to mention "Minister" Calypso Louie. This was the opportunity that arose, and he's taking it. And it'll take waxing his buddy Muammar in order to make it a success.

And that's cold.

matt

dickweed. The total Iraqi deaths per the most reliable numbers, those of the various projects studying the numbers, were approximately 92,000 over the 7 year period until last year.

The Lancet and Hopkins numbers were discredited years ago. The odds of being killed by small arms fire in Iraq are less than in gun-free Chicago.

next.

Henry

Lucky for Daffy, he's in about as much peril as the asbestos at Altgeld Gardens.

scott

Don Surber today spurred me to go and read the NATO charter which I have in a handy-dandy 50th anniversary commemerative coffee table type book that I picked up at a symposium in 1999 and lo and behold it doesn't say anything about attacking Libya! In fact, it states it covers the, wait for it,...North Atlantic north of the Tropic of Cancer and the Mediterranean (it also mentions French Algeria). So how does NATO take command of this disaster? AJ Strata also checks the UN Charter and notices it's a violation for the UN to interfere internally in a member states affairs for any reason whatsoever! ...go figure? Hillary must have her own red-lined rev.

What a kick reading bgates in Taranto. Cat's gonna need an agent.

I left my wallet in El Segundo, I gotta gotta gotta get it back.

Phony Ideology

"next."

That's all you got?

Alrightee then !

Jane

Go away phony, or at least chop up those stupid posts so we can get to the next page.

The left is crushed over Libya to the point where they are not saying a word, and I even heard one wistful wish that for once the republicans would nominate some even he could vote for. (That would never happen - on either side.)

And any rate I think this spells trouble for Obama, and unless they can fend it off, we might start hearing the "I" word..

And then there is Holder...

Janet

It looks like Donald Trump is out doing the Lord's work. Show the birth certificate!
LOL! I love how he sticks up for the "birthers" saying it isn't a dumb question.

Also interesting is that the left used to say the certificate HAD been shown...now they say why should he have to show it. They admit now that it hasn't been shown.

MarkO

I think he's probably pining for the fjords.

Ignatz

Earth to cleo.
Afghanistan and Libya are your little hero's wars. It may help you fight back the tears to wish Bush was still in office but you lefties own all the poor dead muslims these days.

Ignatz

--fustercluckery--

Now there's a useful coinage. I may use that one, clarice.

Jim Miller

Those on every side of the issue will be interested to learn which nation is solidly behind bombing Libya.

I sort of think I understand why.

Extraneus

That was narciso's, Ig.

Rick Ballard

"So how does NATO take command of this disaster?"

Scott,

According to the Italians, it doesn't. It has a 'key' or 'technical' role. DoT will be happy to hear that our navy is not taking order from the French. The Italians have control of the fleet.

That's reassuring. Personally, I think they should rotate command and control on a MWF/TThSat schedule with Sunday off. That way everyone gets a fair chance to show their ability.

MarkO

Wasn't this a Marx Brothers movie? Rufus T. Firefly?

Sara (Pal2Pal)

All you need to know is that Code Pink, in the person of Medea Benjamin, herself, was on Fox last night. Fox!

She did a long segment with Bill O'Reilly and even sounded partially sane.

Captain Hate

Wikileaks and Lancet: caterers for the catamite's ball. Who does Finnegan's Wake of Retardville lust after more, rapist Assange or cabana boy Manning?

Janet

SOB Biden is at baseball training camp...so he's obviously taking the bombing of Libya seriously.

Porchlight

Don't mind Cleo, folks. He only crawls out on days on Barry's worst days. If it's before Friday evening, that means the news is especially bad for Barry.

scott

Grazie Rick, Grazie :)

 centralcal

Excellent point, Porchlight!

Danube of Thought

I like Rumsfeld's take best: Obama didn't go to congress because he didn't know what to ask for.

Phony Ideology

"It looks like Donald Trump is out doing the Lord's work. Show the birth certificate!"

Bwahahaaaaaaaaaaaa.

That's all you need. Another birfer bites the dust, but confuses the matrix of dwarves who are lining up to run for Prez.

From Huckmakaka to Donald Meglomaniac.

You guys are the Three Stooges squared.

Danube of Thought

A poor, befuddled liberal agonized in The New Republic:

"So much for the hope that Iraq and Afghanistan might actually have taught the West anything lasting about trying to impose democracy at the point of a gun. Instead, it is as if Iraq, which, in the United States, was initially welcomed by most liberal internationalists and neoconservatives alike as a war of liberation, had never happened, and, instead, we have traveled backward in time. Remember those halcyon days of the late 1990s when Tony Blair was promising the world that in the future the West would fight wars in the name of its values, not just of its interests, in effect promising that the wars of the twenty-first century would be noble wars of altruism? If you don’t, well, don’t worry: If the war in Libya is any indication, you’ll have the chance to live them all over again. Of course, the catastrophe in Iraq was supposed to have sobered us, and made even the most ardent liberal interventionists realize that Pascal’s great phrase, 'He who would act the angel, acts the beast,' expresses the stark truth about what we self-flatteringly call humanitarian interventions. But instead, here we go again."

Phony Ideology

"He only crawls out on days on Barry's worst days. If it's before Friday evening, that means the news is especially bad for Barry."

The truth is I have a day job, unlike most of you. (unless you steal your employers money by posting from work).

I post when the idiocy of conservatives reaches critical mass.

Rob Crawford

Rage, rage, rage. It's all you leftards have, isn't it?

Ignatz

The sad thing is we have essentially no strategic interests in Libya and yet we are wasting our time and treasure there.
Meanwhile, Syria, Iran's linchpin against Israel, enabler of the Hezbollah puppet show and serious thorn in our side as a client state of Iran and promoters of Iran's interests, is coming under increasing pressure from its citizens and we turn a blind eye to it and do nothing to help them.
It's probably the only country in the region where we'd still be better off even if the Muslim Brotherhood took over and yet we'll leave the Syrians to be slaughtered in silence while putting on a Punch and Judy show in the gulf of Sidra.

Phony Ideology

"yet we are wasting our time and treasure there."

Where you born after 2003, Iggy?

clarice

Shhh, ignatz..maybe these smarties have just designed this BenGhazi business as a distraction from a really brilliant maneuver in Syria.

(As if)

Ranger

I post when the idiocy of conservatives reaches critical mass.

Posted by: Phony Ideology | March 23, 2011 at 07:54 PM

Well, maybe you should address the actual topics of the thread then, instead of always popping in to screech that "Bush was worse!!!!111!!"

For example, in this case you might compare Bush's 9 month "Rush to war!!!!!!1111!!!" (which, by the way, included a full debate in the House and Senate for a congressional authorization and a full debate in the UNSC for a new UN resolution) with Obama's 3 day "Causious and deliberate" approach (that ammounted to rushing to a vote in the UNSC then letting congress know as they were leaving town that we were going to start bombing). Or maybe you could compare Bush's "unilater" war in Iraq, which included dozens of coalition partners, with Obama's "multilateral" operation (which has, as far as we can tell, three active participants flying missions, and a helping hand from Italy letting use use their territory to base from).

OK, maybe just screaching "Bush was worse!!!11!!" is all you've got.

Ignatz

--Where you born after 2003, Iggy?--

I've made it well known that IMO if we were going to enter Iraq at all, we should have smashed Saddam and his military and left.
How's about you cleo? Do you support this pointless war of imperial aggression, waged by your liberal friends without even consulting congress or are you permanently stuck in 2003?

Phony Ideology

"I've made it well known that IMO"

Bullshit. You are like the rest of the
hegemons who post here. Nary a word of
dissent from Bush occupied this site. But you are new. Is it possible you are the
e-trade baby?

Ranger

And maybe someone in the Barry Obama fan club could answer these questions if they get a chance:

A United Nations Security Council resolution does not substitute for a U.S. political and military strategy. You have stated that Libyan leader Muammar Qadhafi must go, consistent with U.S. policy goals. But the U.N. resolution the U.S. helped develop and signed onto makes clear that regime change is not part of this mission. In light of this contradiction, is it an acceptable outcome for Qadhafi to remain in power after the military effort concludes in Libya? If not, how will he be removed from power? Why would the U.S. commit American resources to enforcing a U.N. resolution that is inconsistent with our stated policy goals and national interests?

In announcing that our Armed Forces would lead the preliminary strikes in Libya, you said it was necessary to “enable the enforcement of a no-fly zone that will be led by our international partners.” Do we know which partners will be taking the lead? Are there clear lines of authority and responsibility and a chain of command? Operationally, does enforcement of a no-fly zone require U.S. forces to attack non-air or command and control operations for land-based battlefield activities, such as armored vehicles, tanks, and combatants?

You have said that the support of the international community was critical to your decision to strike Libya. But, like many Americans, it appears many of our coalition partners are themselves unclear on the policy goals of this mission. If the coalition dissolves or partners continue to disengage, will the American military take on an increased role? Will we disengage?

Since the stated U.S. policy goal is removing Qadhafi from power, do you have an engagement strategy for the opposition forces? If the strife in Libya becomes a protracted conflict, what are your Administration’s objectives for engaging with opposition forces, and what standards must a new regime meet to be recognized by our government?

Your Administration has repeatedly said our engagement in this military action will be a matter of “days, not weeks.” After four days of U.S. military action, how soon do you expect to hand control to these other nations? After the transition to coalition forces is completed, how long will American military forces remain engaged in this action? If Qadhafi remains in power, how long will a no-fly zone will be enforced?

We are currently in the process of setting priorities for the coming year in the budget. Has the Department of Defense estimated the total cost, direct and indirect, associated with this mission? While you said yesterday that the cost of this mission could be paid for out of already-appropriated funds, do you anticipate requesting any supplemental funds from Congress to pay for ongoing operations in Libya?

Because of the conflicting messages from the Administration and our coalition partners, there is a lack of clarity over the objectives of this mission, what our national security interests are, and how it fits into our overarching policy for the Middle East. The American people deserve answers to these questions. And all of these concerns point to a fundamental question: what is your benchmark for success in Libya?

Because until they are answered, there is no real explanation for what we are doing in Libya or why.


Rob Crawford

For example, in this case you might compare Bush's 9 month "Rush to war!!!!!!1111!!!" (which, by the way, included a full debate in the House and Senate for a congressional authorization and a full debate in the UNSC for a new UN resolution)

And people were talking about Iraq being next all the way back to 9/11. I remember a talking head -- possibly Mona Charen? -- wondering *WHEN* Bush was going to start talking about Saddam sometime in late 2001.

Extraneus

Shhh, ignatz..maybe these smarties have just designed this BenGhazi business as a distraction from a really brilliant maneuver in Syria.

You may have something there, Clarice, more evil than we might want to contemplate.

sbw

It must be tough being a "decider."

Phony Ideology

"more evil than we might want to contemplate."

Too bad y'all didn't contemplate that possibility in 2003

Ignatz

--Bullshit. You are like the rest of the
hegemons who post here.--

There are a range of opinions here, but you didn't answer my question. Do you support Obama's hegemonic and illegal war of aggression against Libya?

--But you are new. Is it possible you are the
e-trade baby?--

Read a rule book would ya? I've been here several years, skankopotomous.

Rob Crawford

We're all hegemons?! Why didn't anyone tell me?!

I thought we were all paragons. Or octagons. Can never keep those two straight.

Ignatz

One more post to turn the page.

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