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May 01, 2011



The coward hid behind a woman before being shot? Good grief.

Michael Yon is saying the burial at sea is a big mistake - his remarks are posted at Insty.

Danube of Thought

No partisanship from these parts--heartiest Bravo Zulu to all concerned.

Really glad it was SEALs. There's a SEAL hangout up on Orange Avenue that will be rockin' tonight, for sure. And we'll never learn their names, just like the guys who nailed those pirates.


It sounds like this has been in the works for sometime and Obama and the administration was actively involved. So while it was the obvious thing to do, I won't begrudge him the credit that is due. But the key question is this (from the LUNed article):

The CIA had been hunting that courier for years, ever since detainees told interrogators that the courier was so trusted by bin Laden that he might very well be living with the al-Qaida leader.

It's important to flesh out the circumstances in which the detainees gave that information. Were they at Guantanamo? What kind of interrogation were they under? Would this information have been obtained if the policies advocated by Obama during the campaign had been in place?

As for the burial at sea, I don't like the fact that it's being characterized as "in accordance with Muslim law." This guy does not deserve that consideration in life or in death. As a matter of principle, the US should have emphasized that this was done for our reasons, not theirs, even if it meant letting his body be pecked at by seagulls for 36 hours before being cast into the sea.

Shit, Fly! Am I bovvered?

Two things worry me.

1. Look where Obama felt safest. Next door to Pakistan's junior military academy. Poe wrote definitively about this.

2. Paki got de Bom.


The news about OBL's dispatch surprised me but I was mostly shocked to learn that he wasn't living hardscrabble in a cave

Responsibility to Protect.

Oh, look at me, writing Obama. Well, he did say he'd make war on Pakistan.

Captain Hate

Chubby at first I thought the same exact thing but his health issues would've done him in rapidly in a cave imo. I'm still incredulous that the people in his midst were able to keep his whereabouts a secret for so long. That doesn't speak well of our intelligence gathering capabilities in that area.

I wonder if Pakistan guessed we were sniffing at the hole.

Everybody suspected he'd stay on the run. Instead he went to ground and what ground that is.

Professor Cornholis

Is anyone here happy that Osama is dead, but sad that it happened on Obama's watch? Do the two net out for an overall feeling of indifference? Or does one win out?

Tres Interessant.  History belongs to the victors.

OK, next I guess they'll show video of Osama still alive. He was spirited out weeks ago, and now we'll have competing narratives.

Dr. Shah did it.

Bet he had a kidney transplant.

Danube of Thought

And so it begins: this dude says the photo of a dead bin Laden is fake.

Rob Crawford

Drudge says one of OBL sons was also killed along with a woman who was being used as a human shield.
Code Pinko will be upset.

Is it wrong that I hope the human shield was a Code Pinko?

Danube of Thought

Or does one win out?

His death trumps everything.

Hi, Leo, ol' pal.

Don't worry Prof, we know he had his eye so focussed on finding Osama that he's neglected everything else, except his golf game.


Yeah, you watch; they'll just say we nailed the wrong guy.


Failure to give full credit and lavish praise upon Him will be proof of racism.

Think about that some 3:00 AM

Obama is between the horns. The more credit he tries to take, the more hatred directed personally toward him by the jihadists.


I'm just happy that OBL is dead. It would have been nicer if it had happened at Tora Bora or during W's watch, but hey .... either way, justice has been done.

I think everyone has known all along that OBL was getting assistance from SOME Islamic gov't or military .... most likely the Pak ISI or even, at times, the Iranians ... and that he was most likely being sheltered in a country neighboring Afghanistan, again most likely in Pakistan.

And considering his dialysis needs, probably NOT in a cave somewhere.

But I am surprised it was in Islamabad, next to a Pak military academy, and not in tribal Waziristan.



((That doesn't speak well of our intelligence gathering capabilities in that area.))

and it speaks uncomfortably too well of the network that enabled the construction, maintenance, finances, staff, communications etc. etc. that were needed to operate the fortress


I think that, given how much history loves irony, it is fitting that Obama's singular accomplishment as president will be having ordered the death of Osama. Pair that with Obama's own wishy-washy po-mo bleatings about how 9/11 represented a 'failure of empathy', and it will make a good leson on how reality eventually imposes its will on the academicly minded.

Lovely big fat shiny irony.  I'm gonna get to work on the display case for that one.

Oh, excellent, Ranger. And by decapitating the head. Of what is practically a government.

Danube of Thought

From the Daily Telegraph:

After the terror attacks of September 11, 2001, "detainees gave us information on couriers. One courier in particular had our constant attention. Detainees gave us his nom de guerre, his pseudonym, and also identified this man as one of the few couriers trusted by bin Laden."

In 2007, the U.S. learned the man's name. In 2009, "we identified areas in Pakistan where the courier and his brother operated. They were very careful, reinforcing belief we were on the right track."

In August 2010, "we found their home in Abbatabad," in an isolated area.

Some elements in Pakistan are desperately complicit.

OK, OK, killing a criminal mastermind.

Danube of Thought

Apparently at the Mets-Phillies game last night, word got to everybody in the stadium almost simultaneously by twitters, blackberries and smart phones, and within seconds the whole stadium was chanting "USA." Wonderful. Just heard Bobby Valentine saying everybody in the broadcast booth had chills.

Mike Giles



Like the couldn't find one damn working flamethrower!

Brave New World.

We are wired, aren't we, DoT.

Chills because of the power. I'm amused by the outdated idea of a 'broadcast booth'.

Captain Hate

Is it wrong that I hope the human shield was a Code Pinko?

In honor of Rachel Corrie, I'm thinking pancakes would taste good today.


One of Daid Hagberg's 'Kirk mcGarvey' novels, had him meeting his end in a high rise hotel
in Pakistan, in Islamabad.

Danube of Thought

Kim, on reflection I believe that the production of the birth certificate may very well be brought up by one of the judge's at today's hearing--you were right (I think).

Jim Ryan

Thank goodness for George W. Bush's WOT. It has kept us safe for ten years and is still going strong. And thanks to President Obama for having the prudence to continue Bush's WOT straightforwardly and undiluted. Most of all, thanks to our Navy SEALS. And thanks to all the guys and gals who served in our military during the WOT.

Danube of Thought

What's outdated about "broadcast booth?" What do you call the place where Vin Scully sits?

It's a plot, n.

Helicopters in the night is unusual.

Giant Swatter.

Hope this isn't the start of something big.

That triad is very powerful.

Jim Ryan

DoT, I looked for that boat you told me about at the Flying Circus show. Couldn't find it. They must have had it in a hangar. Will go see next time I go to the show this summer.


I wonder if this will impact the coverage of the Barnett/Keyes/Drake et al v. Obama appeal in the ninth circuit today?

Fer instance, were the broadcasters the first to know?

DoT, it won't be long before 'broadcast booths' won't be how the game is experienced by the fans.

Might be a trap.  Also, ISI must have Obama's visa records.  I don't like where I'm going.

DoT, won't they have to prove provenance, if so?

Danube of Thought

I don't understand, Kim....

TK, it has been my understanding that the hearing was going to be videotaped for later broadcast. So it shouldn't affect it, I wouldn't think. I have no idea when it is supposed to be shown.

It's on the nine o'clock calendar, but I believe I saw a note on the docket indicating that it would be the last matter heard, so it could be late morning PDT before the argument starts.

Captain Hate

A comment @ AoS said the burial at sea was the ultimate waterboarding.

Also shouldn't the usual gaggle of lefties be complaining that we did this unilaterally? Smart diplomacy == Send in the SEALS?


Jim Ryan,
I was disappointed that we didn't come to the Flying Circus yesterday. It stayed overcast & drizzling up here....otherwise we were all set to come. Hopefully we'll make it another weekend.


Meanwhile, Duke and Duke, doesn't fail to disapoint, what is the point of power, if you fail to use it. They really should leatn to 'fight like a girl'

My habits were formed without TV.

On further consideration, DoT, inspired commentary along with a live image may always have a place.

Jim Ryan

Janet, the show was really good, as ever. My WWII pilot friend was well-received. He and I met another 90-y.o. WWII pilot who had flown scores of bombing raids over Germany, and he told us lots of stories.

Hit and Run: the show is traveling to Lynchburg in two weeks with the Blue Angels. I'm going to it. Come on up with the kids!

Captain Hate

In a handshake deal reached in late January, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Kentucky Republican, vowed to use the filibuster less often in exchange for a promise by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, to allow Republicans more opportunities to offer amendments to legislation.

Dear God, what could go wrong with "opportunities to offer amendments to legislation"? Mitch must be upset that Miss Lindsey is getting all the Sunday Chat show exposure.

Danube of Thought

DoT, won't they have to prove provenance, if so?

It's a little more complicated than that. The provenance issue (known as authentication) would be pretty easy to take care of (affidavit of the custodian, if necessary, although the court might even agree that as an official government record it is self-authenticating). But the problem is that the COLB is not part of the record on appeal, and I'm not sure whether it can be offered at this point (I've never encountered this situation).

But I would expect one of the judges to say something like "Ms. Taitz, would you agree that if the COLB is genuine it moots your case entirely?"

Danube of Thought

I think giving this guy the Muslim rites, whatever they are, was a mistake. I think just dumping the body without ceremony would have demonstrated the we don't consider him to have been a Muslim, just a madman. I don't think we would have given Hitler a Christian burial.


from Politico -

"Asked how bin Laden's body will be treated, a senior administration official told reporters on a conference call that "we are ensuring that is handled in accordance with Islamic practice and tradition."

The official, who refused to be identified, said the matter is "something that we take very seriously, and so, therefore, this is being handled in an appropriate manner.""

Why say anything? An Islamic terrorist hero is treated with respect in accordance with his insane religious views? Why make a statement at all?

Rob Crawford

I think just dumping the body without ceremony would have demonstrated the we don't consider him to have been a Muslim, just a madman.

Except that Muslims consider him a Muslim, not a madman.

(For me, that's all the more reason to have fed him to pigs then dumped the pigs into a volcano. But I'm extreme that way.)

L!ink U!nder N!ame.

TNX, DoT. Knowing Taitz, she'd then rage on about Kenya and Indonesia. I do think there is something to the Indonesian angle. And, I still don't know whether or not this case has the 'natural born' bit, which, though unadjudicated, may not be adjudicable.

TK, link under name has a great discussion of Natural Born, by an extremely sharp climate lukewarmer named lucia. An issue unsettled is the documentation that the founders were using de Vattel's 'Naturels, ou les Indigenes' to mean 'Natural Born Citizen'. lucia's looking for the link. She's very good, so be careful. And very nice, too.


The house had no internet access or phone, he never left it, just to go out, and get the Abbottabad chronicle, surely their had to be some high profile people in the ISI and the Army proper, who knew where he was.


from narciso's link -

In a handshake deal reached in late January, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Kentucky Republican, vowed to use the filibuster less often in exchange for a promise by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, to allow Republicans more opportunities to offer amendments to legislation.

We are fools. Reid's promise...are you joking?


On one hand, the rumors thru the moron inhabited souks will be either that OBL isn't dead or that we committed sacrilege on his body. OTOH the morons here are already doubting the story of his death.

Rob Crawford

JFC, people are babbling about Birther crap IN THIS THREAD?!

You folks are so full of shit an enema would leave you light-headed.


That picture was obviously fake. Has anyone seen any actual evidence, or some way to corroborate the claim?


Wow. NPR had someone on this morning who actually pointed out that bin Laden wasn't just anti-American, he killed a lot of Muslims, too.

Which we all know, but I found it surprising for an NPR commenter not to focus exclusively on the anti-Americanism. Our stance against jihad doing nothing to but gin up al Qaeda's rage against us, etc., the kind of argument that ignores the way he killed his own people.


How many judges were confirmed in Bush's last two years? That's how many McConnel shouldn't filibuster.

Captain Hate

NPR's top quibblers were really faced with a quandry. Trash the US versus Bammy love. Good to have an obvious statement of priorities.

Danube of Thought

What was the source of that picture?


I don't know but the Telegraph showed clearly it had been photoshopped.


Sorry Rob.

Gary Kreep is the other attorney presenting his case today. He seems to have relied heavily on the BC also.

Stephanopoulos asked enough people until Trump took the bait. That cert was going to be released before this appeal no matter what.

Good observation DoT, I wonder where these clowns go, if they are discussing certificate “facts”. Or, are they only making the case that they had standing and certificate arguments are for a later trail, if granted?


The idea of this particular thread being diverted to lesser things disgusts me too, Rob. I've never criticized anyone's post here, but bringing the bc issue makes me sick.


Soylent, welcome home.

Because the Seals will likely remain unidentified, let's just pick up the bar tab of any Seal you happen to see.

Just saw the recent Top Shot competition on cable. A 26-year old former AF sniper would have likely been the winner. He appeared to give up his opportunity to win $100K for a companion who, by winning, earned enough to pay for his kid's schooling. Another reason to pay the bar tab of special forces you meet.

Soylent Red

Matt alluded to this last night but I think it worth expanding on...

Obama ordered the raid that killed OBL. Terrif- he did his job. I don't understand getting all dewy over the fact that a grown man did the job he was hired to do. I will give credit to the SEAL team and spooks who actually planned and executed the raid since that takes some skill and balls, but Obama just gave the green light.

There are plenty more, and plenty more important, terrorist leaders out there. I'll give credit to Obama's handling of the GWOT when he personally selects the next "priority" for intelligence gathering (or next three). OBL was obvious, and at this stage of the game more of a symbolic figurehead leader. My guess is Obama couldn't name you five more actual hands-on baddies without a half day of briefings.

The fact that MSM wants to blow smoke up his ass should be a clear indication of Obama's minor role in this event.

Off-topic is a feature not a bug.

Heh, y'all need to get in touch with your inner birther. We doubt the authenticity of someone who'll say that 9/11 was a 'failure of empathy', and then cold-bloodedly stab in the back the object of his empathy.


Well said, Soylent!



Ayman al-Zawhiri should be next on the list.

I hope the SEALs carted out a lot of useful intelligence along with OBL's dead carcass that night.


Sorry Deb. I really don't understand how the thread etiquette works. Is it that no one should bring up an off topic subject or no one should respond to the off topic comment?

I am being serious.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

I met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside Pakistan. And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice. Today, at my direction, the United States launched a targeted operation against that compound in Abad Abad, Pakistan.

Why "at my direction" instead of "with my approval"? The wordsmiths were hard at work burnishing the presidential image.


I thought the markets would be up over this, but they are down. Gold surging again. I don't think that the pog is entirely based on inflation fear. Imo sharia finance that places a high value on gold enters in.

Danube of Thought

I think Obama's speech last night was the first time I have ever heard him give any kind of credit to GWB.


"I met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located bin Laden.."

Thank goodness we had Obama and Thomas "Fannie Mae" Donilon there to "develop" the crucial info.


"Why "at my direction" instead of "with my approval"? The wordsmiths were hard at work burnishing the presidential image."


Just another example of Obama using his favorite personal pronouns: I, me and my.

Sandy Daze

2 May 2011

Go Navy ~> beat Army.

SEALS --> Navy
Commander JSOC --> Navy SEAL Admiral
Commander SOCOM --> Navy SEAL Admiral (Most senior SEAL ever)
C, JCS --> Navy Admiral (alright, even if he is a loser on many other issues, Mullen is a graduate of the famous--if not infamous--USNA Class of 1968, the last on active duty).

Yep, Brand X will not be pleased that Navy has done this well. heh-heh-heh

As Americans we will all celebrate the successful op.

As service professionals, you gotta know that Brand X will be clamoring for the al Zawaheri op.

Tremendous news.

BRAVO ZULU to all involved !

Take good care,


As someone pointed out above, this was an act of war. We invaded another country 'within 100 yards of an Army base' for our own national interests. Let's give him credit for understanding what that meant. And hope the ISI understands as well.


Yes, and if the effort failed he'd have been blamed. For a ditherer who once claimed 9/11 required we empathize with the enemy, he finally grew up a bit. (I expect polls showed him the way.)

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

Good points, Walter & Clarice. I admit I am biased, but I just wish he would have been a bit more self-effacing. Humble in victory -- gracious in defeat.


there's a new thread on this


So good to see Sandy D and Soylent here on a day when we seem to have a little good news on the great job done by our military in the War on Terror. Wonder why Obama did away with the War on Terror?

"Why say anything? An Islamic terrorist hero is treated with respect in accordance with his insane religious views? Why make a statement at all?"

From Obama's speech: "Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader. He was a mass murderer of Muslims. Indeed, al Qaeda slaughtered scores of Muslims in many countries including our own."

So why give him a Muslim burial? Do our leaders really believe that the Muslims are going to take one of their Christian pastors out of a Muslim Jail to give our fallen a Christian Burial?
We should not be endlessly catering to these terrorists, IMO.



I just want to add how very proud we are of you.

And thank for what you said above.

Welcome back.


As we discuss Obama's actions and the bravery of the US Navy Seals; you might want to keep in mind that:

"In November 2009 the Obama Administration charged 4 Navy SEALS with assault for slapping terrorist mastermind Ahmed Hashim Abed and giving him a fat lip."

I wonder how many military careers and lives have been destroyed by the Obama Administration?


Welcome home, one of the brave, Soylent :)

The patriots will be separated from the political hacks and their mouthpieces in the media, through how they react and report on Usama's entrance into Hell.

To all who serve,protect and fight for me& my country's freedom..Thank You from the heart!

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