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May 03, 2011

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Captain Hate

So should we start circulating the meme that if it weren't for Wikileaks, Preznit Present would still be dithering? That works for me on a lot of levels.

Sue

one can ony imagine the pressures on the man with the loneliest job in the world.

Tear jerker.

lyle

I can think of a few lonelier jobs for him than his present one.

Skypester

Not to diminish the bravery of the SEALs, because everything they do is incredible, but this raid didn't shape up to the be the hardest on record. They knew only 4 males were on property and at least one of them (OBL) was a girlie man. The WH is putting out a bunch of smoke and mirrors on how long this took, but I think it was over in about five minutes. Sure, the in and out of Pakistan in risky as are potential boobytraps, but from Obama's perspective, the raid seemed like a fairly easy call--and a fairly safe one. Of course the MSM is hyping it as much as possible to make Prez nine-iron look courageous.

Danube of Thought

There's still no disputing that Obama took a huge risk in ordering this raid. There were lots of ways it could have gone wrong, perhaps badly wrong, and had that happened he would have been toast.

Ignatz

--So should we start circulating the meme that if it weren't for Wikileaks, Preznit Present would still be dithering?--

Well, if we don't you know cleo will.

clarice

True, DoT. OTOH you have to agree the wikileak piece sure made this a do it soon proposition and someone explained to him that it was his last chance to pick up some points on the board.

Captain Hate

Iggy, I was thinking of it more in making Assange a target of the head-choppers. That soft pencil-neck could probably be sliced through with a butter knife.

Sue

Something occurred to me after seeing the $1,000,000 castle Osama was living in. What does a $100,000 home look like? A hut?

Sue

Top is re-tweeting the best comment:

The best irony of all: Old Osama being “waterboarded” off the USS Carl Vinson into the Arabian Sea

Ignatz

--Iggy, I was thinking of it more in making Assange a target of the head-choppers.--

Too late for that, CH. Cleo has already pronounced Assange responsible for the Arab uprisings which promise to expand the head choppers' power exponentially. On the whole not a bad trade off for 'em, if they're also inhabitants of cleo's alternate universe.

Sue

WaPo poll has Obama up 9 points. Someone at Hot Air: He presided over the killing of Osama bin Laden, and his popularity is only at 56 percent? Seriously? He’s beatable in 2012 after all.

Good point.

DebinNC

Obama's calculated the political blowback if the missed opportunity became known was greater than the political blowback from a failure mission. His overriding concern is always how any action will affect him, not what's best for the country.

 centralcal

WaPo poll has Obama up 9 points.

Also, Sue, we always have to keep in mind that media polls skew heavily to Dems and seldom reflect actual voter breakdowns. That he only picked up 9 pts with biased polling, tells ya something, too.

Neo

American forces were led to Osama bin Laden by his most trusted courier, a Kuwaiti-born man named Sheikh Abu Ahmed, three US officials revealed.

Ahmed was a shadowy figure for US intelligence, someone it took many years to identify. For a long time, intelligence officials knew him only by his "nom de guerre", Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti.

The first indications about his significance came from CIA detainees shortly after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

Ahmed and his brother were killed in the same pre-dawn raid on Monday that left bin Laden dead.

... and ...

The [WikiLeaks] file suggests that the courier’s identity was provided to the US by another key source, the al-Qaida facilitator Hassan Ghul, who was captured in Iraq in 2004 and interrogated by the CIA. Ghul was never sent to Guantanamo but was believed to have been taken to a prison in Pakistan.

He told the Americans that al-Kuwaiti travelled with bin Laden. The file states:

“Al-Kuwaiti was seen in Tora Bora and it is possible al-Kuwaiti was one of the individuals [al-Qahtani] reported accompanying UBL [bin Laden] in Tora Bora prior to UBL’s disappearance.”

Extraneus

There's still no disputing that Obama took a huge risk in ordering this raid. There were lots of ways it could have gone wrong, perhaps badly wrong, and had that happened he would have been toast.

Therefore, the panic in the WH over his falling poll numbers must be quite extreme.

Sue

Damn I hope this isn't real. It shows the SEAL too clearly.

Sue

Okay, the wound is over the wrong eye. Fake.

MayBee

This is what real CIA agents were doing while Valerie Plame was sending her husband on free missions and whining about someone asking her questions.

Stephanie

The only calculus Obama made was whether having the intel and doing nothing ala Clinton and having the military leak it would be more damaging than doing a raid and having it fail. The calculus of actually doing a good thing for the country by getting OBL never entered the equation.

Real leaders lead at great cost to themselves, he ain't no real leader.

Ranger

This is what real CIA agents were doing while Valerie Plame was sending her husband on free missions and whining about someone asking her questions.

Posted by: MayBee | May 03, 2011 at 12:48 PM

I nominate for comment of the day.

lyle

Anyone catch Bob Shrum last night on Kudlow fellating praising Obama on his towering victory, his defining moment and comparing him to FDR's winning WWII (I know) and Kennedy's Bay of Pigs?

Kudlow offered up Reagan winning the Cold War and W's actions after 9/11. Shrum? "Meh."

Agent J. (formally known as "J"..

Sue | May 03, 2011 at 12:46 PM

If this picture is real, that may be someone aboard the ship. Just a thought.

Captain Hate

Wait a second, lyle; was Shrum actually presenting the Bay of Pigs as a positive thing? I knew he was an idiot from his sterling Presidential campaign record, which Duke and Duke can only regard with unfettered admiration; but this puts him in Ed Schultz fractured history tales territory.

Danube of Thought

If that's what Shrum said, my guess is that he meant to refer to the Cuban missile crisis, in which the media portrayed JFK as having the combined virtues of the Holy Ghost, the Twelve Apostles and El Cid.

Porchlight

I nominate for comment of the day.

Second.

lyle

CH: yes. Apparently damn near starting nuclear war is a positive thing.

I sure hope he has a prominent voice in Bam's re-election campaign.

Captain Hate

You're probably right, DoT; I was thinking that when you were posting it. Yeah the MFM fluffing was pretty disgusting; leaving aside that he almost got us all blown up, JFK sold out the intermediate range missiles in Europe and Turkey. Fortunately in the long term, the latter didn't make a difference.

cathyf
Okay, the wound is over the wrong eye. Fake.
The flag patch on the soldier's/sailor's sleeve is not backwards, so the photo may be reversed.

(I only know about National Guard flag patches, not sure about any other branch of service. But that does look like a NG velcro on/off patch, which are backwards, not forwards like the picture.)

Harry P

Wapo bump due mainly to war on terror approval up. No change in other areas. Terrorism will not be Top 3 issue in 2012 election.

Wapo:
"In the immediate aftermath of the targeted killing of Osama bin Laden, President Obama’s approval rating has jumped higher, with big increases in the number of Americans giving him high marks on dealing with terrorism and the situation in Afghanistan.

But the new poll, conducted Monday evening by The Washington Post and the Pew Research Center, also finds virtually no movement in Obama’s numbers when it comes to handling the economy. That suggests that success on one front — even one as important as the death of the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks — might not translate easily to other areas.

Overall, 56 percent of those polled say they approve of the way Obama is handling his job as president, an increase of nine percentage points over April polls by Post-ABC News and Pew. "

"Bush got an identical 10-point boost among independents in December 2003 [Hussein capture]. For Bush, that lift proved short-lived, with the entire increase gone within six weeks."

Porchlight

Terrorism will not be Top 3 issue in 2012 election.

Let's hope not, anyway. (knock wood)

Jack is Back!

Saw this from Insty. Geography class at UCLA, predicted with 88.9% certainty that OBL was hiding out in Abbottabad, Pakistan. LUN

Danube of Thought

In the event he is not re-elected, I hope there will be a viral YouTube of Baba Wawa and the slut Behar beclowning themselves yesterday.

Stephanie

If terrorism is a big issue due to another attack, does the capture accrete to the benefit of Obama or not?

ISTM that the capture is incidental in the WOT and that the policy decisions that are made and continue to be made is the sticking point. If the administration keeps leading through weakness and undermining the war and Holder keeps doing stupid things, the errors of the dems are highlighted in big honking neon and ongoing terrorism is a fatal blow to dems.

If, however, they follow the GWB footprints and marginalize the Kucinich's and the far left fringe, it is a big issue, but any new terror attacks don't hurt the dems. By usurping GWBs decisions when convenient, it seems to me that the terrorism issue is blunted vis a vis the election as they can point and say we did x and ignore their historical record. I don't see the republicans gaining much traction in saying 'let's change teams even though they are doing what we did.'

Now, if the dems continue in their stupid policies, all hell will reign on them.

What I'm worried about is their appropriating and using the WOT to undermine capitalism and liberty to continue the long march. If we get another attack, there will be calls to 'do something,' and I don't trust this lot to 'do something' without it also benefiting them politically. Think Citizens United in a WOT context. Never let a crisis go to waste.

MarkO

I admit I'm a cowboy. Actually I tend to brag about it, but this was not a hard call at that point.

"Obama took SIXTEEN HOURS to make up his mind about Bin Laden mission"

From the Mail Online and I would provide a link if I had any clue.


Woo M

Geography class at UCLA, predicted with 88.9% certainty that OBL was hiding out in Abbottabad, Pakistan. LUN

Well, not quite that accurate. Per the original article (LUN):

"According to a probabilistic model they created, there was an 88.9% chance that bin Laden was hiding out in a city less than 300 km from his last known location in Tora Bora: a region that included Abbottabad, Pakistan, where he was killed last night. "

So they narrowed it down to an area of 282,744 square kilometers or 108,686 square miles.

MarkO

“If we had the opportunity to take him [bin Laden] alive, we would have done that,” said John Brennan, national security advisor to the president. But as they had thought might happen, bin Laden resisted, a fire fight occurred, and because of the administration’s determination to not “put our people at risk,” bin Laden was killed.

The say UBL threw a pillow.

Extraneus

Just paste it into the box above the Post and Preview buttons, MarkO. Or even right into your comment.

PaulL

Interesting, Jack, but there has been a big walkback from the story. They only predicted the likely geographical area by distance, and that broad geographical area included Abbottabad.

Pops

Somehow, I think Osama would have preferred being waterboarded.

I think KSM, Al-Libi and the other waterboarded would choose Bush's waterboard, over Obamas hot lead to the skull technique.

I would consider two bullets to the head to be torture, not exactly protective custody.

I still don't understand why the seals, once they identified Bin Laden, didn't withdraw to the compaound entrance and wait for the proper legal authorities to come arrest Osama.

How else was Eric Holder going to call Osama as a character witness at KSM's trial?

Danube of Thought

Thus far the oaf Brennan has had two revisions forced upon his account: Obama was in fact unarmed, and no woman was used as a shield.

The former point makes no difference at all to me, nor do I care one whit whether the SEALs' orders were to kill on sight or to capture if possible. Unless the guy immediately prostrated himself with his hands behind his back and started begging for mercy, he was gonna get shot anyway. Can you imagine being in a dark room with a psychotic mass murderer and giving him the benefit of the doubt?

narciso

Right, Pops, they have a police station nearby, there must be a courthouse in the area, to get a magistrate.

Kenny H

"Obama was in fact unarmed,..."

But he did have his golf clubs with him and those spiky shoes.

Sue

I don't care if he was armed or not. As someone pointed out yesterday, he needed killin' and I'm pleased as punch my SEALs did the killin'. Panetta says neither he nor Obama saw the killin' so odds are Brennan didn't either. Our counter-terrorism chief in action, so to speak.

Dave (in MA)

Boston Police Twitter:

Boston_Police Boston Police Dept.
15 Sudbury St., white powder found in envelope at Senator Brown's office. HAZMAT officers on scene.
It was reported yesterday that Brown is going to spend his next National Guard training stint in Afghanistan.

Sue

I must admit I wondered about Osama using a woman as a shield. He really was known as a warrior when fighting the Russians.

Dave (in MA)

Also found in MA AG Marsha Coakley's office; initial tests indicate that it's not dangerous.

 centralcal

Why is the media calling the Abbottabad OBL compound a "mansion?" Yeah, the walls for privacy took up a lot of space, the actual house structure not so large. The house inside, as Clarice indicated earlier this morning, looks like a dump. In one of the bloody room photos, there is a wooden daybed with ratty, holey, yellowed foam rubber. Who started all this "luxury" nonsense?

I notice in the ABC film clip what appears to be a bunch of medicine and prescription bottles on top of a shelf or dresser. Wonder if that was OBL's bedroom?

Barbara

Panetta says neither he nor Obama saw the killin' so odds are Brennan didn't either. Our counter-terrorism chief in action, so to speak.

Obama is such a sissy, he can't even make a decision to release a photo of bin Laden's corpse. Gates and the military must have had to drag him kicking and screaming into that situation room as the attack went down.

narciso

Whoever was the contractor, did a little tipping in the till, or it could be designed
by those masonic architects.

MarkO

Thanks Ex. Here's more about throwing the pillow:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42882664/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/

cathyf
I must admit I wondered about Osama using a woman as a shield.
The numbers that are being bandied about imply that there were 3 men and 19 women in the house. If that is even approximately correct, "hiding behind women" is not an unreasonable characterization of the situation.
MarkO

IT WORKED. Watch out world.

Porchlight

Early accounts had a different man, not OBL, hiding behind a woman IIRC.

Porchlight

Gates and the military must have had to drag him kicking and screaming into that situation room as the attack went down.

From the photos, he sure didn't look like he wanted to be in there.

Sue

I just read elsewhere that some of bin Laden's minor children were in the room along with his wife.

MarkO

"I just read elsewhere that some of bin Laden's minor children were in the room along with his wife."

There's a line in "Lonesome Dove" that applies to that.

Captain Hate

Mark, what line would that be? I thought I was very obsessive about Lonesome Dove but I'm drawing a blank.

Neo

The story of UBL’s end appears to keep changing.
Now, UBL’s wife didn’t die, they got the name of the dead son wrong too. It even appears that UBL didn’t have a gun, but was “putting up resistance”. What did he do ? … attack the Seals with a pointy stick ?? .. a banana ?
Did the Seals gun down US public enemy #1 like a common dog ?
This is getting worse than the “Jessica Lynch” urban legend.

Janet

Here again in centralcal's picture from the other thread - His little pin-head, his large ears,

DebinNC

WH corrects Brennan. In another article Brennan says the SEALS were wearing helmet cameras...that his info comes from watching the raid and other reports, but noted helpfully "I wasn't there" (heh).

narciso

Maybe a passion fruit, Neo, btw, does this indicate one two many concussions without a helmet:

http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/6471433

sbw

Heckuva job Brenny.

MarkO

Page 631:

Call was thinking of Jake--that a man who had ridden with them so long could let such a thing happen. Of course he was outnumbered, but it was no excuse. He could have fought or run, once he saw the caliber of his companions.


I know obsession. It's my friend.

Frau Blide

For DoT from Jim Treacher comments via Insty:

"jackw3526

The best irony of all: Old Osama being “waterboarded” off the USS Carl Vinson into the Arabian Sea!"

Danube of Thought

Wonder if the body was "eased into the sea" from the flight deck.

Porchlight

From MarkO's link:

Carney also said the photograph of bin Laden dead is "gruesome" and "it could be inflammatory" if released.

The White House is mulling whether to make the photo public, but he said officials are concerned about the "sensitivity" of doing so.

Let me get this straight. According to the MSM, Obama has big brass ones because he decided to go ahead with the raid. But now he can't decide what to do with the photo, because he's concerned about
being "inflammatory."

Seems to me that killing a guy has to be more "inflammatory" than releasing a photo of a guy after you've killed him.

So which is it - is Obama brave or not?

The only way to resolve the apparent conflict is to conclude that Obama just does what his advisors tell him to do. They already told him to sign off on the raid but they have not yet made the decision as to what to do with the photo.

BTW Carney is an ass.

Ignatz

--Here again in centralcal's picture from the other thread - His little pin-head, his large ears--

Is that the Bat-cape he's wearing?

Sue

Why the hell didn't this administration have a story ready? Did they not think anyone would ask questions? Good grief.

Next thing you know, Holder is going to be pressing charges against my SEALs.

Sue

Ignatz,

He is getting his hair trimmed, while sitting on the little board that the barber places across the arms to raise the wee little up.

Sue

Shoot. Messing up my own snarc...wee little "one" up.

Sue

I should have used "won" not "one". There is a reason I'm not a stand up comedic. Or bgates.

Captain Hate

Ahhh Jake Spoon. I liked Gus's comment about him best to Lorena (paraphrasing): Jake's a leaky bucket to put your hopes in.

I still consider the miniseries to be one of the best things ever done on tv.

DebinNC

Whatever ceremony occurred on deck before OBL was eased into the sea took 40 minutes. I'd like to see the video or at least see a full description of exactly what took up 40 min.

Sue

We are soon going to find out that the Osama's wife shot him. ::sigh:: Obama is really not up to this. Scary, huh?

MarkO

I didn't watch the miniseries under a standing order to see nothing I've read, but you make me reconsider.

I still preach to my kids from the Book of Lonesome Dove. Chapter and verse.

MayBee

I'd like to see the video or at least see a full description of exactly what took up 40 min.

I just want to know if any of our service members were made to stand there and listen respectfully.

narciso

Next on the special edition of Cops,live from Abbotabad

MarkO

Maybe I should add to my daily recitations, "Obama's a pussy."

Porchlight

The raid took 40 minutes.

The burial ceremony took 40 minutes.

One of those two things should have been much, much shorter than the other.

MayBee

I'm trying to figure out how the people who insisted the photos of Abu Gharib be released now insist the death photo of OBL *not* be released.

lyle

I still consider the miniseries to be one of the best things ever done on tv.

Outstanding miniseries. Seconded heartily. One of the best cast of ALL time. You won't regret watching it, MarkO. Trust me. You'll be sorry you hadn't done it earlier.

MarkO

Is there anyone here who would hire Carney to be a minor functionary let alone the face of your business?

lyle

I'm trying to figure out how the people who insisted the photos of Abu Gharib be released now insist the death photo of OBL *not* be released.

You're on a roll lately, MB. Yes, it is a wonder, huh?

lyle

I wouldn't hire Carney to BE a carney.

Dave (in MA)

This video shows the body being washed for burial at about 0m:47s.

Captain Hate

I didn't watch the miniseries under a standing order to see nothing I've read, but you make me reconsider.

You should watch it just for Robert Duval. And Tommy Lee Jones hasn't done anything better than his portrayal of Call. The rest of the cast is outstanding as well. Only watch the original; every subsequent sequel and the prequel (although I think McMurtry was involved with that, as he was the original) are substandard.

True story: I taped it without even watching it when it was first broadcast strictly by luck because a buddy of mine recommended it and I just programmed my vcr to record it automatically. I let it just sit for a couple months and, on a whim, started watching it at 10 on a Saturday night. I stayed up until 2 am watching the first 3 episodes and then got up at 7 and watched the final episode; after which I immediately started watching it again. And again.

So yes, I know obsessions.

Frau Blide

::too fast for me::
I see Sue beat me to it with the waterboarding quote.

Ignatz

--Ignatz,

He is getting his hair trimmed, while sitting on the little board that the barber places across the arms to raise the wee little up.--

--I wouldn't hire Carney to BE a carney.--

Everbody's on a roll.

Janet

The inconsistencies of the left!...an endless list. TK wondered if OBL's koran got damaged? Where is all the hoopin' & hollerin' about that?

Captain Hate

Tammy Bruce is likewise riffing on Carney's name.

Danube of Thought

I urge reconsideration of the no-watch policy. Almost every scene in that miniseries looks exactly as I had pictured it while reading, and Tommy Lee Jones are Duvall are sensational.

A man who wouldn't cheat for a poke don't want one bad enough.

fdcol63

I thought most of the 40 mins in OBL's Abbottabad compound was spent searching for and gathering intelligence.

But you're right .... the burial shouldn't have taken so long, unless they needed to sharpen the knives to hack him into little chum bits.

Barbara
Seems to me that killing a guy has to be more "inflammatory" than releasing a photo of a guy after you've killed him.

So which is it - is Obama brave or not?

The only way to resolve the apparent conflict is to conclude that Obama just does what his advisors tell him to do.

You nailed it, Porchlight!

Porchlight

I strongly dislike the lefty McMurtry and his lefty son James the musician. But I love, love, love Robert Duvall.

Frau Blide

"He (Osama) really was known as a warrior when fighting the Russians. "
Sue, I read somewhere(Charlie Wilson's War or Looming Tower) the Arabs were, by and large, often asked to stay out of the way.

lyle

A man who wouldn't cheat for a poke don't want one bad enough.

"Lorie, darlin'..." Diane Lane, another perfect cast.

Captain Hate

Frau, The Looming Tower portrayed OBL in Afghanistan as a bumbler of epic proportions that the jihadis tolerated only because he had so much money.

DebinNC

Weren't we told Obama nixed the option of blowing up the compound because he wanted irrefutable proof OBL was dispatched? And after Dems/msm vilified Bush non-stop for eight years, Obama expects the public to accept without question a "the DNA matches" WH press release? I guess anyone who asks to see evidence it was OBL is a racist "proofer".

lyle

But I love, love, love Robert Duvall.

Hell, I'll throw in another "love." Gus might be his best role ever and that's sayin' something.

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