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July 28, 2011

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Comments

peter

"cuts" is so vague. means nothing. A real bargain would have been abolish the Department of Education. The federal government has no business being in the education field.

Comanche Voter

It's a start. And right now it's the best option out there. It may die in the Senate, but when you're up against Stony Lonesome, some things start to look better, and a Democrat Senator facing re-election next year might not want to explain how he screwed up and didn't vote for this. Of course President Numb Nuts might veto the bill. He IS that stupid. But he'll pay a price, as will we all.

Jim,MtnViewCA,USA

Insty posts a link to sci-fi writer Pournelle,
who suggests actually cutting stuff even if just a little.
I can't imagine the Senate or P Obama going for it. But seems like it would make intuitive sense to many voters who have had to cut back.
LUN

narciso

Whatever, it's gone so absurd, I expect 'Zombie Graham Chapman' to show up, the media
has no interest in the truth, consider that hip hop video about 'raise the debt ceiling'

matt

What absolutely amazes me is the sheer mendacity of these cuts. There are so many out of control programs that it is a target rich environment. And yet still, the vagueness of it all just blows me away.

No one in DC seems to want to call the shots. Just tell each department to come up with 10% budget cuts, just like companies do when times are tough.

Threadkiller

Lord of the Three Ring (circus)

With Precious:

Without Precious:


Same ears.

Threadkiller

Oops, I meant to post that on the other thread.

Sorry

fdcol63

Shared sacrifice. I want the Federal government to share, and I want Congressmen to share. We can no longer afford to see exponentially increasing Federal budgets or 3600 percent increases in their net worth.

Congressional members net worth up 3669 percent

http://pronlinenews.com/?p=11018

Jim Ryan

Is this a joke? $90B/year is definitely chump change even if it were a cut - which it isn't (being a reduction in the rate of bloat.)

The House should pass the Boehner plan, though it doesn't make any cuts, because its passage will help the GOP in 2012. A GOP president and Congress will be needed for there to be cuts.

Captain Hate

consider that hip hop video about 'raise the debt ceiling'

I mistakenly saw that earlier this morning when Mrs H unfortunately left, what else, NBC on. I don't think even Duke & Duke could come up with something that witlessly banal; but I don't want to put that out as a challenge.

Dave (in MA)

I'm with peter. Get rid of any of the Departments created during the previous malaise presidency:
Education ($45B)
Energy ($24B)

Of course, I remember in the middle of Bubba's term a lot of Dem fundraising was done with an ad saying that the Repubs wanted to ABOLISH. THE. DEPARTMENT. OF. EDUCATION. as though it was beyond the pale. There were far fewer John Galts and Howard Beales around back then, though.

Captain Hate

O/T ManBearPig isn't having such a good settled science day: http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-192334971.html

narciso

From the previous thread, the fishwrap proves even less usefull


So far, however, the federal government has failed to make a dent in this destructive traffic. An early Obama administration initiative, known as Operation Fast and Furious, was widely ridiculed for giving agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives permission to allow drug cartel associates to buy weapons and smuggle them across the border in an attempt to gather evidence on Mexican kingpins. The program was shut down after it came to light.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/07/27/2333893/stop-the-gun-flow.html#ixzz1TPnCrgHW

Jane

Jay Carney is a dolt.

And the WH is saying it is winning this fight.

The only way that will happen is if people decide the winner by what the White House says.

Blue

Do we really need a BOEMRE? Who thinks these things up?

How many unheard of agencies are spending $50 million on "studies".

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-arctic-scientist-under-investigation-082217993.html

Jane

Chris Christie has been taken to the hospital due to trouble breathing.

Jim Ryan

Following on the Cap'n's link, here's a link to Roy Spencer's own site where there's a pdf link to his article.

Janet

The Drudge headline is - WH: GOP Spoiling Christmas

When did the left ever care about Christmas!! I'd think they would be pleased if Christmas was spoiled. Maybe they mean - GOP Spoiling the Winter Festival or something.

MarkO

At this point, I don't really care what it does except piss off Obama. Hand it on and let's get down to naming the real extremist.

MarkO

Only Christmas? What about killing the Easter Bunny? Childish. So, so, awful. That is what one can expect from Obama.

Captain Hate

El JEFe doesn't care about Christmas; they're spoiling his birthday party.

Les Nessman

"As initially drafted it would cut spending by $850 B over the next decade."

har-dee-har. The next decade? Does anyone really believe that future Congresses will be held to this number?

And, even if all the things in this are good and true....IT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH.

Janet

Here is an interesting post about those loser social issues.

"The polling data reveals 84 percent of Democrats back informed consent measure to give women more information about abortion’s risks and alternatives, 61 percent support parental consent before a teenage can get an abortion, and 60 percent support a 24-hour waiting period. That’s not the overall percentage of Americans who support those pro-life laws, that’s not the percentage of Republicans. That’s more than 60 percent of Democrats backing each of those policies."

and - "The results go further and they show 59 percent of Democrats back a partial-birth abortion ban, and 49 percent support a bill to allow women a chance to see an ultrasound before an abortion."

Elliott

Ruff the chuff's bluff.

glasater

Do you play Bridge, Elliott?

Frau Edith Steingehirn

Thomas Sowell in his IBD aritcle "Boehner plan is not perfect but it ain't bad":

"Is the Boehner legislation the best legislation possible? Of course not! You don't get your heart's desire when you control only one house of Congress and face a presidential veto.

The most basic fact of life is that we can make our choices only among the alternatives actually available. It is not idealism to ignore the limits of one's power. Nor is it selling out one's principles to recognize those limits at a given time and place, and get the best deal possible under those conditions.

That still leaves the option of working toward getting a better deal later, when the odds are more in your favor."

glasater

Interesting video of Rick Perry talking about the debt ceiling:

Link

Threadkiller

Did Dufus say Christmas? Rush said "Holiday season" and he said Boehner's bill goes well into 2012.

Muhammabama probably ment Mawlid which is in February of 2012.

Melinda Romanoff

Elliot-

They've found new collateral sources for the ECB.

I hope they don't go after Premier.

Elliott

No. For me, bridge and cricket are a category unto themselves: full of familiar vocabulary gleaned either from relatives or from Literature signifying next to nothing.

Drider

I read that this bill would allow,at the 6 person committees discretion, the ability to raise taxes.If that is the case, then take the "no taxes" off of your favorable list.

I'm so far beyond the pale on these Congress critters that trust has no meaning, verify is God.

MayBee

Obama keeps saying that if they don't pass a long term bill, we'll just have this same problem in a few months.

But why is that true? If the Senate/House/POTUS would pass a serious budget, wouldn't that decouple this particular debate from the raising of the debt ceiling?

JM Hanes

"But I don’t have a viable strategy to enact such an improved bill, and, as best I can tell, neither do those conservatives who oppose the Boehner bill."

Hennesey not only has no strategy, he's got no more bill than the President does. Even if he did, there's absolutely no way his improved wish list could get through a divided Congress. I'd love to up the odds by handing Boehner a magic wand, myself, but there is only one viable strategy for making dreams come true here, and it's taking over the Senate in 2012.

I'm amazed that almost no one seems to be noticing the other elephant in this room. The debt ceiling deadline sets up an entirely arbitrary timeline which utterly ignores the realities of actually putting together the kind of legislation it will take to implement anything remotely resembling the substantive structural reforms we 're all looking for. If you don't understand that, then read the Obamacare Bill or the "Recovery" Act people! They will give you a mere taste of how many "ands" and "ors" and amended amendments and bureaucratic mazes will have to be negotiated and addressed -- just to get back to a baseline for change.

Moving legislative mountains is a long haul proposition. It takes serious skilz which most of our Tea Party freshmen simply haven't had the time to acquire, if not comprehend. Unlike his predecessors, Speaker Boehner has made them real partners in this process, and they'll ultimately be better representatives and legislators because of it, when 2012 rolls around. Right now, however, it's KISS time.

Elliott

MR, so which club gets Ronaldo in a default? Bayern Munich?

Melinda Romanoff

JMH-

Bang! Dead on.

narciso

It's gotten very Python, hasn't it Melinda,

Melinda Romanoff

More Blackadder-like, but similar, because you need one consistently inept, evil player.

Melinda Romanoff

Elliot-

Naturally.

Boatbuilder

I think the Republicans should argue that "shared sacrifice" ought to mean that the Federal Government needs to make the same kinds of tough budget cuts that municipalities and families have been making over the last several years. The idea that Federal spending always has to go up (even the "cuts" are cuts of projected increased spending) needs to be held up to the harsh light of day. Cast the argument as the Feds taking money from municipalities--that's what Reagan did--and maybe people will understand better what is actually going on.

centralcal

Rush is about to have a heart attack - he ways the stupid Repubs think they have bounced the ball back into Reid's court. But, he will simply strip out what he doesn't like in their bill and stuff it with his and bounce it back to the House.

Charlie (Colorado)

But, he will simply strip out what he doesn't like in their bill and stuff it with his and bounce it back to the House.

Where the house will revise it back.

mikey

I like Rush, but he is bereft of original thought. He read that idea this weekend like we all did. Reid still has to get the bill past a filibuster and he doesnt have the the votes/. Therefore the only bills passed are ccb and the Boehner bill. The ball would still be in Reid and Obama's court.

MarkO

"But, he will simply strip out what he doesn't like in their bill and stuff it with his and bounce it back to the House."

Ah, the new party of "no." Radicals. Terrorists. Spoilers of Christmas.

centralcal

I am seeing (Politico and others) claims that Perry has sent out feelers to FNC to be included in their early August debate (with the supposition made that he won't officially announce until late August).

centralcal

mikey, in fairness to Rush, I don't know if he claimed it as his original thought - he was reacting to TV comments of Rich Lowry, et al. (he has TV on during his show) saying how the Repubs had bounced the ball to Reid, how brilliant, blah, blah, blah. That is when Rush went ballistic.

sbw

"But, he will simply strip out what he doesn't like in their bill and stuff it with his and bounce it back to the House."

Reid can't "strip out what he doesn't like." The Senate has to approve something. Then it goes to a conference committee to work out the differences. If they can.

Extraneus

Let Reid mess with the House bill. Maybe he can strip out the cuts and add some tax increases to it, too.

The uglier this gets, the more Dems will lose their seats in 2012.

People haven't turned on Republicans in any of the polls. In fact, the most recent polls show Republicans with a 10 point advantage on "The Economy," which I think is some sort of record. Also, Rasmussen's strong disapproval of Obama is spiking, while strong approval is flat.

Obama is playing with fire right now, apparently out of desperation. He thinks he may be able to pull a Clinton over a gov't shutdown. Only problem is, Boehner isn't Newt, who was MUCH easier to demonize, and he can always just pass a clean, short-term debt limit increase and shake his head sadly, lamenting the fact that the president insisted on tax increases and wouldn't agree to any real spending cuts, so the only thing we can do is wait for the 2012 election before taking further actions to right the ship of state.

That's what I'd like to see, anyway. Then His Petulance can try to go on TV to explain all the cuts that were in his non-existent "plan," and Boehner can shoot some fish in a barrel.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

I listen to Rush. I like him, and admire his willingness to be "out there" day after day, year after year.

But IMO, there are many here on JOM who can run circles around him on legislative strategy and tactics. I am not impressed with his grasp of the options Boehner has in the debt kabuki.

Elliott

More Blackadder-like, but similar, because you need one consistently inept, evil player.

Take heed, the moral of this tale / be neither borrower nor lender / but if your finances do fail / be sure your banker isn't Geithner

Captain Hate

Exactly JR; Rush is an entertainer who is very good at what he does as far as reaching the masses with a positive message. Anything beyond that is a reach.

glasater

Elliot-

I thought you may be an aficionado of Bridge living in the land of Cribbage and Whist.

When I'm feeling really strong I fill in at our local duplicate club:-) They play Bridge for blood you know:)

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

...he can always just pass a clean, short-term debt limit increase and shake his head sadly, lamenting the fact that the president insisted on tax increases and wouldn't agree to any real spending cuts, so the only thing we can do is wait for the 2012 election before taking further actions to right the ship of state.

I'm with you, EX. If Rush gets this, he's hiding it.

centralcal

Krauthammer FNC Panel comments via NRO:

They’re trying to scare the Republicans away with a letter saying it [the Boehner plan] is dead on arrival. Well, it’s not going to be dead on arrival. What Reid will have to do is to add a curlicue or two, some kind of amendment, something on it [the Boehner plan] so he can at least say it’s an amalgam, it’s a compromise between the Reid plan and the Boehner plan, which would allow the Democrats… who are going to be up for reelection next year [an out].

The president, who has issued what I think is a phony veto threat — I’m sure that if it reaches him there’s no way he’ll be able to actually do that.

So that will be the protection. The president will say, ‘Well, there was a compromise, it wasn’t the Boehner plan, therefore I can sign it.’

Bolding, mine.

Danube of Thought

I read that this bill would allow,at the 6 person committees discretion, the ability to raise taxes

My understanding is that they will make proposals, but the congress will still have to vote on them. I don't think the constitution allows a joint house-Senate committee to enact any legislation, and certainly not a revenue-raising one.

Porchlight

Reid can't "strip out what he doesn't like." The Senate has to approve something. Then it goes to a conference committee to work out the differences. If they can.

I can't speak for c-cal but I think that's what she meant - strip, amend, and pass something Reid/Dems can get through the Senate. Theoretically it then goes back to conference, though they got around that with Obamacare.

However, if Reid wanted to take that route, he could have done it with CCB.

Rick Ballard

Show me 60 votes for cloture on the Reid move and I'll start thinking about it. Not 53 - 60. Name the 7 RINOs requesting crucifixion.

glasater

However, if Reid wanted to take that route, he could have done it with CCB

Didn't Obamacare--after the Senate was done with it--send the bill back to the House where it passed?

centralcal

Yes, Porch - "strip" was just a shorthand term. sheesh.

Ignatz

--Exactly JR; Rush is an entertainer who is very good at what he does as far as reaching the masses with a positive message. Anything beyond that is a reach.--

He's usually fun but makes some pretty bad mistakes at times.
Listened to him a little while eating lunch out in the woods yesterday. His explanation of the term "entitlement" as used re SS and medicare was a bit embarrassing and quite wrong.

Rick Ballard

Stripping/amending is going to require a cloture vote. CCB was tabled because cloture is not required for a motion to table.

glasater

It sounds like Reid is going to table anything coming out of the House.

Porchlight

Didn't Obamacare--after the Senate was done with it--send the bill back to the House where it passed?

I thought they used reconciliation to get around having to do something...but it was so traumatic I think I've blocked it out. ;)

centralcal

From FNC reporting on an early procedure vote that took place a little while ago:

However, the Senate is expected to act on the Boehner bill should it pass. Democratic aides told Fox News that Boehner's bill is actually the best vehicle for getting a debt-cap bill to the president's desk provided changes are made to it on the Senate side -- Reid could prime the bill for those changes Thursday night.

Again, bolding, mine.

mikey

Therefore, Krauthammer was right and its all a game after Senate passes some version of the Boehner bill.

centralcal

Sorry, but this commenter over at HotAir made me really laugh out loud and say, "go for it!"

After the House bill passes, it is time for House GOP to flee to Illinois. Worked for the Dems.

Thomas Collins

See LUN for Pelosi on stopping the GOP to save life on the planet as we know it today. The former Speaker is accurate in her description of the stakes, at least as it relates to the Western World, which continues to slip into the Therapy State Is All model of governance. The former Speaker can't abide the notion that the ghastly slide could be reversed. I have to say that Speaker Pelosi is more candid in setting forth the stakes than Obama, Reid or the other progs who are trying to make believe that the slide towards the Euro Social State is the centrist position.

Thomas Collins

Whoops! I didn't LUN former Madame Speaker. Let's correct that oversight.

JM Hanes

How desperately do Senate Dems want to avoid a debt ceiling vote? We've heard the veto threat, and read the Senate's warning letter. Boehner must be starting to look like a regular Nancy Pelosi when it comes to whipping the vote, because Harry Reid has announced that he won't even bring the Speaker's bill to the floor, if it does pass the House. When the automatic motion to concur with or reject the House bill kicks in, he'll just table it with a majority vote. Reid's spokesman says, "Boehner's bill dies tonight. Forever." The folks over in TPM's comment thread think this Hail Mary pass is certifiably brilliant!

It looks like the Dems aren't much happier with the idea of putting Harry Reid's "bill" to a vote. They must know it is going to get ripped to shreds if he is actually forced to lay it out in black & white and publicly put it to the test. The idea that he could stuff it into the shell of Boehner's bill was just another red herring. The days of Dems rewriting legislation to their own satisfaction ex post facto came to an end when they lost control of the House Conference. I wouldn't be surprised if the action now has come down to banging on Mitch McConnell's door.

If Boehner's bill gets through the house, Democrats will own the hot seat. I think they know they're going to have to vote on something if that happens, so they are dusting off every sabre they can rattle.

sbw

If Harry Reid thinks he has some smooth sailing ahead, I suspect Mitch McConnell doesn't think so.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I doubt you'll want to bother to read the article re: Debbie Wasserman-Schulz. I just like the headline:

Debbie Downer Desperately Demagogues as Democratic Descent Deepens

Melinda Romanoff

As an aside, it looks like Little Timmy's been telling stories again.

Rick Ballard

JMH,

What the Dems from top to bottom want is to not revisit the issue in six months. There is little or no substantive difference between Boehner's bill and Reid's bill except for the scoring shenanigans which Reid added in order to get past the election. Ehlmendorf put a stick in the spokes by shifting the baseline and now Reid's proposal as it stands isn't enough to reach the elections.

I count four GOP efforts to reach an agreement, CCB and the current House bill plus McDonnell's plan and the bipartisan G6 nonsense. Passage today puts the ball in Reid's court and Reid's tabling of this effort will leave it there.

Maybe it's time for the President to try and lead from his behind again?

Melinda Romanoff

Rick-

No, you're not getting the message. This is a GOP manufactured problem. Branded. Theirs. Not the Demorats.

Never.

Little Angels...

MayBee

The Dems have to revisit the issue in six months, because they'll have to create a budget eventually.

maryrose

In other words ,dems are up s--- creek without a paddle. They can add an amendment if they want but it still has to pass the House again. Meanwhile Obama is totally irrelevant to the process until he hogs the spotlight and complains about having to sign a bill with no revenue to play with in it.He's been leading from his behind from the getgo and his forage into Libya put it on display for all to see.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

This is for DOT, although he might have picked a different wedding guest butt as the model:

Plastic surgeons see rise in demand for Pippa Middleton ‘butt lift’

And this one, just to illustrate cluelessness.

Hey Marlboro Marine: You are just a few steps off the Fallujah 2004 battlefield, a bloody battle of the Iraq War, and you didn't stop to think what kind of message you are sending to kids? Don't you know that cigarette smoking is bad for your health? A sensitive man would have been drinking water (at least it doesn't say milk).

image

BTW, nannies, that dirt isn't Hollywood makeup. That haunted look isn't acting either.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I hope he ate his peas.

Danube of Thought

If Boehner can get the votes tonight, it seems to me he's been the shrewdest player involved in this thing. Reid's only excuse for tabling it will be "because I said I would." he will have been handed a choice between a bill that's similar to his own, and default.

Let's see if he chooses default.

JM Hanes

Oh man, this one is going to be a real nail biter.

This bit of info on House freshman caught my eye. Contra my earlier comments on legislative skilz:

Many of the freshmen have legislative experience at the state level — so this likely isn’t their first involvement with compromise.
Just over 70 percent of the class of 87 came to Washington with a background in politics — as state legislators, mayors, town councilmen, top political aides and sometimes even as former members of the House. Few doubt their conservatism, but their political experience is frequently underestimated.

Here they are in action: Republican Freshmen Rally for GOP Spending Cut Bill.

Jane says obamasucks

So far he apparently does not have the votes.

But let's say it passes and Reid tables it. Do they actually think the House is going to start again.

Boehner should declare vacation and simply go home. Let the dems rot.

Danube of Thought

Thanks, Sara. Yes, I prefer the Princess Victoria model of caboose to Pippa's, but that's only for the moment. I'm sure that in twenty years Victoria will be more than happy to swap.

I just heard on Cavuto that it's not clear whether Boehner has the votes but will at least begin the voting process at 6:00 p.m., and that Reid does not have his sixty.

Why does Boehner need 216 and not 218?

DebinNC

The Ohio redistricters are threatening to eliminate the 60% Republican district of "kill Boehner's bill" leader Rep. Jim Jordan.

mikey

I would think that if the voting is at 6 and he hasnt pulled it off the floor by now then he has it. Cavuto can be overly dramatic at times

Rick Ballard

DoT,

One Dem can't make it due to surgery.

Danube of Thought

The guy who was reporting to Cavuto suggested Boehner might pull it before the voting is over if it becomes apparent that it won't make it.

Rick Ballard

I really doubt that Cantor has lost the ability to count. A nice tight margin diminishes the possibility that the GOP will do much when (if) Dingy's rework comes back.

They just won't have the votes, having exhausted themselves in getting this rough gem through.

Rick Ballard

OTOH - that means that Dingy's proposal will pass on a true bipartisan vote leaving the President... behind?

JM Hanes

DoT:

And Gabrielle Giffords isn't there either.

centralcal

DoT: Also the gal (already forgot her name) who is recovering from her wound to the brain - coupled with the cancer surgery guy equals 2 less Dem votes.

centralcal

Thanks, JMH - phones ringing, typing fast, brain moving slowly (no wound to mine, tho!)

JM Hanes

Pelosi will surely haul Rep. Wu to the floor, so there must be at least two more representatives MIA, no?

Melinda Romanoff

Rick-

You had to go there.

Danube of Thought

Dingy's rework needs 60 votes, right? If he doesn't get them, it's Boehner (should it pass) or nothing.

JM Hanes

Is anybody planning to watch the floor vote? I'm not sure my nerves can take it, but I don't know if I can resist the unprecedented historic moment either.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I switched over to CSPAN to see what the House was doing and I find them busy naming a Post Office in New York.

centralcal

Is anybody planning to watch the floor vote?

For the moment, "later tonight," is the only word on when the vote will occur. It would be exciting to watch.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

Word from Ed Henry of FXnews has it that the vote has been delayed -- which can't be a good sign.

cathyf

Ok, question about this "past the 2012 elections" benchmark... Isn't this about actual tax revenues and actual federal spending? So if they raise the debt limit, and then in the next months revenues continue down and/because they continue spending like drunken sailors, what happens if they bump up against the new debt ceiling early? Like, say, Aug/Sep 2012?

JM Hanes

Well, here's how President I'm-Not-Serious is spending his time offstage:

Senior aides are holding conference calls to take questions from leaders of black and Hispanic organizations, local elected officials, and other political allies nationwide. Obama spoke by phone this week to a group of college student body presidents to seek their help in lobbying for a compromise. And top economic advisers have huddled in the West Wing in recent days with pastors and advocates for seniors, children and the poor — including one session with Easter Seals and families it serves to discuss the importance of Medicaid to disabled children.
Oh, and heroically holding the Democratic party together.

centralcal

Per Rich Lowry at NRO:

The word was that it wasn’t freshmen who were hard to get so much as long-serving conservatives.

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