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July 19, 2011

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Jack is Back!

Hey, its only 90 miles to Key West from a certain point in Cuba. Why does she want to add mileage?

OT: Posted Coburn's "Back to Black" Plan on other thread but have it hear also at LUN.

MayBee

I could handle the calorie intake.

Sue

MayBee,

You beat me to it. It is the only thing I could do. I would freak out anyway, since I'm sort of, kind of scared to death of sharks.

Janet

The word "addict" comes to mind with some of these athletes. I've got some in my neighborhood - 5'8" tendons with multiple knee braces on...& just running, running, running.
They need a 12 step recovery program -
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol exercising/extreme sports—that our lives had become unmanageable.

Clarice

I, too, vote for item 5.
It keeps the hands and jaw muscles nimble.

Threadkiller
"She also has technology on her side: satellites, global positioning systems, advanced navigation software, even shark shields, none of which were available in 1978. The cost for all this is $500,000. She has raised money and depleted her own bank account, but she is still $150,000 short. Ms. Nyad, a commentator for the Los Angeles-based public radio station KCRW, shrugs it off.

“If I wind up $150,000 in debt, I won’t lose sleep over it,” she said."

Patriot.

daddy

Cuba to Key West?

Is that longer than from Chelsea to Blackfriars?

If Diana Nyad took that Founding Father's test I think she'd be...Ben Franklin.

Web search sez:

---Franklin is credited with the invention of the swimming fins at the age of ten, in 1716.

---Franklin was an early proponent of physical fitness. In an age when few people knew how to swim, Franklin taught himself how to swim. He was an avid swimmer all his life and even contemplated becoming a full-time swim instructor. Benjamin Franklin is the only founding father in the Swimming Hall of Fame.

---On his visit to London at age nineteen, Ben went on a boating excursion with his printer friends. During the trip he leaped into the Thames River and swam from Chelsea to Blackfriars, performing every kind of feat, under water and above. He had learned these feats in the Schuylkill River at home in Philadelphia. He was so expert that he seriously considered opening a swimming school.

And since we're all Madison I went googling to see if James Madison knew how to swim. All I get is this website asking instead the important question: What Did the Founding Fathers Smell Like? Author sez: "the James Madison of my mind smells like a burning wool sock dipped in sour milk."

Bah, humbug!

matt

I think most of them smelled like that, daddy. It was the age of weekly baths and heavy woolen clothing. Imagine walking a mile or two in midsummer in Philadelphia from the printing house, where the inks themselves smelled pretty strongly, down to the docks to hear the latest news from ships just arrived.

Then, eating something delicious such as mackerel sandwiches and a pint or two of ale, and you get the idea.

"Cleanliness is next to Godliness" only became operative sometime in the late 19th century among the more leisurely classes.

jimmyk

The word "addict" comes to mind with some of these athletes.

The article alludes to early sexual abuse, so there do seem to be some psychological issues.

Just staying awake 60 hours would seem to be a hugely difficult feat, though I suppose having all those sharks around might help.

Porchlight

The word "addict" comes to mind with some of these athletes.

That's interesting, Janet. I have an old friend who I think has become a running addict. He is flying all over the country doing a marathon a month. He can't stop talking about it and I get the impression it might be causing trouble in his marriage. Coincidentally, he lives in your neck of the woods.

peter

I read Diana Nyad's autobiography years ago. It was very interesting. That training regime? tough. I think these ultraathletes are trying to conquer frontiers, the way explorers searched for new continents.

Kevin B

Daddy, if Ben Franklin swam from Chelsea to Blackfriars in 1716 a hundred and fifty years before Joseph Bazalgette did his thing, then I imagine he didn't smell too rosy.

Porchlight

The Thames was probably not as bad in 1716. The really huge population explosion was in the 19th century. In 1716 London's population was only about a quarter of what it was when the cholera epidemics broke out in the 1840s and 1850s.

Chelsea to Blackfriars is quite a feat.

JM Hanes

The most interesting thing about the last(?) guy who swam the English Channel, IMO, was that he deliberately put on an extra 42 pounds before the swim -- and had used up every single one of them by the time he reached the opposite shore!

It would be hard for a distance runner to start with such a serious excess of weight on the ground, I expect. The idea that buoyancy is enough to mitigate the effect of gravity -- when you can so easily dive right into water too -- is really rather remarkable. The physics of buoyancy are easy enough, I'm sure, it's the anti-gravity angle that intrigues me. There's a depth at which water begins pushing back, and a weight at which it will crush you, and yet water molecules of hydrogen & oxygen aren't any denser, individually or collectively, at the bottom of the ocean than they are at the top, are they? It would take a black hole to crush 'em, where density is gravity, and gravity is the strongest, not the weakest, force in the universe, no? Back here on earth, gravitationally speaking, if we could actually dig a hole from here to China through the center of the planet, would our descent stop in the middle if we fell in?

Such questions are endlessly fascinating for people like me who have only a passing acquaintance with the laws which govern the universe. I can lie on my bed like a Science Sylvia and make up all my own reasons for why things happen as they do. A life spent swimming -- and preparing for swimming, thinking about swimming, talking about swimming, reading about swimming, doubtless dreaming about swimming, and maintaining yourself on an eat-to-swim diet -- seems impossibly dull in comparison.

Captain Hate

Considering what the level of sanitation and hygiene was in the late 18th century, I always assumed the founding fathers smelled like burning slaughterhouses.

JM Hanes

"The word "addict" comes to mind with some of these athletes."

And rightly so. Exercise affects both your body chemistry and your brain chemistry. You reach the point of diminishing returns when it come to improving your actual health and welfare a lot sooner than folks who spend a lot of their waking hours at the gym or on the track might like to think. Beyond that, it's all about pleasure, and how it makes you feel either during or after your exertions.

cathyf
if we could actually dig a hole from here to China through the center of the planet, would our descent stop in the middle if we fell in?
You would fall down the (rabbit?) hole, accelerating all the way down, and when you got to the middle of the earth you would keep right on going. Because of friction slowing you down, you would not make it all the way to the other side before you started falling back down through the earth. You would oscillate back and forth, each trip a little shorter, until finally you stopped moving at the center of the earth.

(But, anyway, how did you miss that point in childhood when you noticed that a hole through the earth from the US ends up in the vicinity of Australia not China? :-))

(Oh, and the center of the earth is liquid, so the whole "hole" thing kinda falls apart, too.)

Threadkiller

It does seem like the fastest route to get lead, for toy manufacturing, to the Chinese.

Clarice

Whew! I was getting dizzy from all that up and down stuff.

Threadkiller

JMH, for your pondering fun. If a child is born in a plane flying over U.S. air space, is the child eligible for POTUS?

Same question for a child born in a tunnel under the U.S. that has no access to the surface of the U.S.

daddy

"A life spent swimming -- and preparing for swimming, thinking about swimming, talking about swimming, reading about swimming, doubtless dreaming about swimming, and maintaining yourself on an eat-to-swim diet -- seems impossibly dull in comparison."

Aquaman always was the most boring of the DC pantheon of Super-Heros.

Big deal, he could talk to fish. "Hey carp, how's it hanging?"

jimmyk

Beyond that, it's all about pleasure, and how it makes you feel either during or after your exertions.

Injury prevention. I play a lot of tennis, and I go to the gym to strengthen muscles to keep my joints from breaking down. I don't enjoy the exertions, but if they keep my elbows and knees working an extra decade they're worth it.

As for the tunnel to China, in addition to the liquid problem, there's the related temperature issue.

boris

"would our descent stop in the middle if we fell in?"

The point cathy didn't mention is that gravity (slowly) goes to zero on the way to the center. There is no force to keep anything at the center. Might be a hundred miles in either direction with no detectable gravity.

Threadkiller

--"As for the tunnel to China, in addition to the liquid problem, there's the related temperature issue."--

Extremely hot, several million degrees.

JM Hanes

TK:

That would depend on which flag the plane was flying, and on who owned the mineral rights in your tunnel, I expect.


cathyf:

"how did you miss that point in childhood when you noticed that a hole through the earth from the US ends up in the vicinity of Australia not China?"

I never managed to get that far before the dinner bell rang!

If I were a friction-free feather, would I oscillate eternally? I assume the earth's rotation is a jumping-in-the-elevator issue. The heat and liquid factors need not arise given my hypothetical premise of a successfully completed passageway through which I could travel. :-)

Sara (Pal2Pal)

You mean if I walked down the steps (instead of taking the elevator) inside the Washington Monument from the top to the ground I wouldn't end up in China? Oh dear, you mean my Daddy lied to me when I was three years old? I'm crushed.

JM Hanes

boris:

"The point cathy didn't mention is that gravity (slowly) goes to zero on the way to the center."

I didn't realize that, although it makes sense when larger objects suck smaller ones into orbit -- except for black holes where less is more.....which, I guess, would bring me back around to gravity and density?

JM Hanes

jimmyk:

"Injury prevention."

I wasn't saying that there were zero benefits in going to the gym. I'm saying folks don't run marathons for their health. Interestingly enough, muscular skiers are far more likely to suffer spiral bone fractures when they fall than folks whose muscles are weaker and don't bind their joints in place.

Janet

That's why I don't exercise too much...I don't want to suffer spiral bone fractures. I'm stickin' with my safe weak muscles.

Ignatz

--Same question for a child born in a tunnel under the U.S. that has no access to the surface of the U.S.--

You mean like a baby mole? Can they be citizens too? POTUS?

Manuel Transmission

Re: the tunnel through the earth, here is another aspect that boggles the mind. If you cut a straight tunnel from any point to any other point on the surface of the Earth -- say NYC to SFO, you will 'fall' to the other end in exactly the same total time. This is assuming a vacuum so there is no drag (and you would oscillate indefinitely, as well).

Chubby

(("Cleanliness is next to Godliness" only became operative sometime in the late 19th century among the more leisurely classes))

and yet Ben Franklin included it as one of the Thirteen Virtues he aspired to throughout his life:

"Tolerate no uncleanliness in body, cloaths, or habitation."

Sara (Pal2Pal)

There were a lot of old wives tales about bathing that were still prevalent even through the 20th century.

My Aunt was appalled that I would consider bathing while on my period and washing your hair was tantamount to committing suicide. My Mother would say, "Just ignore her, it is what she was told as a young girl." She was a clean, well-groomed woman who pretty much hibernated for 4 or 5 days a month. The same woman who dusted and vacuumed her home every single day and expected you to wipe the kitchen and bathroom down with disinfectant.

Why do you think the French developed so many perfumes?

glasater

I thought the Plague during the dark ages was what got folks to start cleaning up their act.
Germans are real sticklers for cleanliness.

boris

"the Plague during the dark ages was what got folks to start cleaning up their act"

The other explanation is that people with an inherited cleanliness trait were more likely to survive and pass that trait on to their descendants.

daddy

"You mean like a baby mole? Can they be citizens too? POTUS?"

The Mole Man was a US citizen so he'd be eligible to be President, but not the Mole Man's Monster.

JM Hanes

My mind did boggle, Man Tran, but I suppose it would be a question of (gravity induced?) velocity.

Manuel Transmission

JMH, that is the secret to the thought experiment. In free fall toward the center, the full acceleration of gravity is pulling, but any other angle and it is only the lesser component. It works out that the net travel time ends up being the same, because the average velocity drops off as the chordal distance drops off. More of a physics problem than and engineering one, but we were still stuck working it out with our sliderules.

Agent J. (formally known as "J"..

So if gravity is zero in the center, then gravity is a surface factor?

Then you could not fall into a hole because both sides are pulling you, assumable equally. You then would become stationary at the point where the force is equal.

Chubby

I think the book and movie "The Girl with the Pearl Earring" was historically accurate on how much the Dutch scrubbed and cleaned

Threadkiller

Agent J, Do you have the answer to the baby born on a plane question?

Chubby

I hate it when my subjects are plural and my verbs are singular

glasater

My ancestors are German, Boris:-)

Agent J. (formally known as "J"..

TK-I went back to your post and you said "over" the US..what is your definition of "over". If they were not landing within the US. We would not even know about it..

Threadkiller

A plane that is not landing in the U.S. Is such a plane in no contact with U.S. agencies while flying over our airspace?

boris

"if gravity is zero in the center, then gravity is a surface factor?"

If you are inside a shell, the gravity of the shell cancels out.

If you are outside a shell the vector sum of shell gravity points to the center as if the entire mass were placed there.

If you are 10 miles from the center of the earth, the entire shell greater than 10 miles radius cancels out. The only gravity you experience is from the sphere 10 miles in radius that you are "outside of". So basically the gravity of a small asteroid.

Agent J. (formally known as "J"..

TK - Unless that plane lands within the US, that child would not have any rights to US citizenship. Now if the child was birthed while flying over the airspace of the US, and landed within the US hey we have another citizen..

boris: Using your 10 mile plan, how could there not be gravity in the center of the Earth?

Agent J. (formally known as "J"..

TK and boris, I had a lot more fun last night trying to explain to a young lady why I thought her male friend was asexual..then trying to convince her that it was nothing that would cause her or him to be removed from their church..I think I may have many more evenings of misgiving that I even started the conversation.

Threadkiller

Wouldn't the child have to be born after the plane lands, In order to gain citizenship at birth?

JM Hanes

A U.S. ship is sovereign US territory; one presumes the same would hold true for an airship.

Agent J. (formally known as "J"..

I do not think that there is one cut and dried answer to this situation, lots of depends, as they say in the retirement center.

Like who owns the aircraft, did it land, was it intended to land, or did it land because of the birth..etc..

boris

"Using your 10 mile plan, how could there not be gravity in the center of the Earth?"

There is a tunnel straight through a planet that passes exactly 10 miles from the center. Gravity on the surface of the planet is the same as Earth, 1G.

The tunnel walls were constructed by Pierson's Puppeteers using technology similar to their General Products spaceship hulls. They added thermal protection, air conditioning, and pressure locks appropriately located to provide standard air pressure throughout

At the center of the tunnel, 10 miles above the center of the planet, stands a man who weighs 180 pounds on the surface. A house fly buzzing around the man's head lands there and attempts to pick the man up and fly away with him.

Assume the radius of the planet is 3000 miles and it's density is constant. Does the fly succeed?

  1. No fukkenWay a fly can pick up a man;
  2. Maybe but just barely;
  3. Oh yeah, fly can pick him up and fly down the tunnel for miles.

boris

BTW on the surface the house fly can produce a lift of 0.02 gram.

Agent J. (formally known as "J"..

I (without) a lot of thought is going to say Number 1..why. Cause the guy weights 180 pounds.

boris

At the surface.
Since that answer is incorrect, here's a followup. How many miles can the fly carry the man up the tunnel?

  1. Less than one mile, if that;
  2. 2.33 miles;
  3. Over 10 miles.

boris

(before the man weighs too much for the fly to lift)

Ignatz

--How many miles can the fly carry the man up the tunnel?--

Until he comes to the first pressure lock cause his tiny little fly hands won't be able to open it.

Agent J. (formally known as "J"..

first the fly was to fly down the tunnel now the fly is to fly up the tunnel. but WAG #2.

You ask to hard of questions.LOL

boris

Well both directions lead to the surface on opposite sides of the planet. I decided "up the tunnel" would be more intuitive since a traveler would be going "up hill" either way.

boris

If the fly carries the man 11 miles up the tunnel they would be 15 miles from the center of the planet. That is 15 out of 3000 miles to the surface or 1/200.

Gravity is determined by mass which is proportional to volume which is proportional to radius cubed. 1/200 cubed is 1/8000000. So to find the wieght of the man convert 180 pounds to kilograms and divide by 8 million. Thus 11 miles up or down the tunnel the man weighs 0.01 gram. The house fly can easily carry the man over 10 miles in either direction.

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