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July 29, 2011


Charlie (Colorado)

Apparently, neither could Nikki.

Captain Hate

Anybody that's been to India has to realize the uselessness of racial categories. Harpootlian sounds like a douche; and not just from his name.


Look, this is very simple.


Not white:


Comanche Voter

Well heckfire we have a "Black Irishman" President as O'Bozo called himself on his trip to Ireland.

As a proud Mongrel American I could care less what box Ms. Haley checked on a registration form. As for Harpootlian pulling stuff like this--can't say he should be allowed to check the "American" box on his form.


once you have seen the name "Harpootlian" you are unlikely to forget it

I believe it's Armenian.

They don't come any whiter than Armenian.


Anoher possibility:

Nikki Haley claimed she was "white" because, at the time, she considered that she might want to, one day, work for MSNBC.


Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

How does the one drop rule play into this silly dispute? That antique Supreme Court decision (unanimous BTW) has since been reversed by legislation.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

Harpootlian is also a whiny has been.

Richard Aubrey

In the bad old days of apartheid, South Africa had race courts whose job was to decide which category an individual belonged to in order to apply the appropriate discriminatory practices.
Some of those judges might be finding retirement a bit boring. The SC dems could offer them a gig.


She should have checked:





If Bill Clinton can be our first black president, why can't Haley be SC's first Non-Native American-Indian-Indian, Non-White Caucasian White governor?


That name sounds like something out of Dr. Seuss.

One Harpootlian, two Harpootlian, three Harpootlian, four

I think Mr. Harpootlian is a macaroon.


So she says she's a minority in interviews and checks white on a registration.

Wow, she's really is taking advantage of the system. I hear she also takes two fotune cookines at the Chinese buffet...

Imagine what they would say if she ran up 3 Trillion in debt allready......


Melinda Romanoff

I would like to bring up another side to this story, at least she only registered once.

But that link might make me being called a "racist".

Or something.


My understanding is that "women" are a minority, too.

So, Mister Harptoolian, in what sense is Nikki Haley wrong when she says she's a "minority"

Hmmmmmmm ....?


The funniest thing I've seen in person was an Asian girl who was the biggest country redneck I'd ever heard. Apparently her parents adopted her when she was a baby and she was raised in the old Virginia horse country.

She put Larry the cable guy to shame with her drawl and her ya'lls but was 100% asian in features.


Does everyone here realize just how deep this b.s. goes - say, for example, in a big American company that does business with the government?

It's really almost unbelievable. No matter how many years you see it, and no matter how many times your jaw drops, you never get used to it.

I could give some hair-raising examples, but the diversity insiders would know what company I was talking about.

Thomas Collins

Haley must be doing pretty well for the Dems to come up with such a weak attack.

Ben Franklin

Wisconsin recall ad deluge may presage 2012 election

By James B. Kelleher

CHICAGO | Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:30pm EDT
(Reuters) - A deluge of political advertising in Wisconsin this summer to sway the largest wave of special state elections in U.S. history may be a harbinger of the partisan onslaught expected in the 2012 national elections.

About 50 outside groups have so far spent between $5 and $6 million in TV, radio and direct mail advertising to influence whether Republicans or Democrats control a majority in the Wisconsin state Senate, according to Mike McCabe, who tracks campaign finance as head of the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign.

That is in addition to the more than $3 million that the candidates themselves have spent so far on the recall campaigns, according to their financial disclosures, which are often several weeks behind.

"There have been a lot of very, very large media buys," said John McAdams, a political scientist at Marquette University in Milwaukee, "and a ton of money has been flowing in from out of state."

Outraged when Republicans passed a law to curb public sector union power in March, labor unions and supporters launched the Wisconsin recall effort. Conservative groups responded by launching recalls against Democrats.

In all, nine state Senators face recall in Wisconsin -- six Republicans and three Democrats -- the biggest such effort in the nation's history. Democrats also want to recall Republican Governor Scott Walker over the union law, but he is not eligible until next year.

Officially registered lobbying groups say they have spent about $3.2 million so far in the recalls.


And the most amazing thing is how docile all the middle and upper management is, perfectly willing to do really incredibly unfair things in order to stay in the corporate mold. It's truly morally corrosive, and so widespread. Our whole society has been compromised by it.

The big wheel keeps on turning us into cousins.

Tina Turner's half Navajo.


I wish they had a "Natural Born" box to check.

Melinda Romanoff


Learn much in the last coupla days?


I don't know if the political advertising is going to have its effect.

One of the things politicians rely upon is that the people are usually not paying attention when they're up their tricks. That is no longer true.

While the unionists are lining up their support, they are also isolating themselves. People are suffering and they see government employees not sharing in their pain. They are also increasingly seeing government in general increasingly as the problem.

There is also the "My President spent $2 trillion in Lower Manhattan and all I got was this lousy T Shirt" feeling that transcends parties.

Even those who do not have a stake in the system are getting upset. The backlash of the younger generations realizing that they have been screwed by the boomers hasn't even set in yet.

There's some seriously bad karmic energy being generated by the Dems and the electorate has begun figuring this out. At that point very few minds will be changed by even the most propagandistic advertising.

Melinda Romanoff


Go look at my link at 4:35 link about an official of the Tunica County NAACP registering and voting under 10 different names, 4 of them deceased.

Ben Franklin

"The backlash of the younger generations realizing that they have been screwed by the boomers hasn't even set in yet"

I assume you're referring to the overwhelming numbers of Boomers moving through time makes them Majority Tyrants. If there is something else you have for proof of your point; please share.

Ben Franklin

"Go look at my link at 4:35 link about an official of the Tunica County NAACP registering and voting under 10 different names, 4 of them deceased."

Exception to the Rule. Please post some significant numbers.


Mel, looks like you don't have to be born at all.

BF, what rule?

Ben Franklin

voter fraud---

Melinda Romanoff


Ben Franklin


That's your question? After several comments, that's your question.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

"The backlash of the younger generations realizing that they have been screwed by the boomers hasn't even set in yet"

You obviously don't live with any younger generation that constantly blames you for their employment and financial problems. I hear several rants a week about what users and losers we Boomers are.

Melinda Romanoff


Melinda Romanoff



Does the NAACP's exception match the equivalent all white organization's exceptions? I am wondering how the "rule" is formulated.

Melinda Romanoff


Melinda Romanoff


Ben Franklin


See Mel's exhaustive effort to make big numbers out of small.


Out of all these comments, that's your answer?


--I assume you're referring to the overwhelming numbers of Boomers moving through time makes them Majority Tyrants.--

We used to have a constitution that by design thwarted most nationwide Majority Tyrant schemes. SCOTUS decided it didn't mean much and now the boomers' kids and grandkids get to enjoy a negative rate of return on the nationalized pension scheme they are compelled to join.

Ben Franklin

She's supposed to have the answer, or do you? Oh well, I feel confident you have plenty of 'gotcha's' in your sack of tricks.

Just not today..........

Sara (Pal2Pal)

As a Charter Boomer, I can attest to the fact that everything my Gen X, Y kids say about me as a Boomer, I said about my parents' generation when I was in my 20s and 30s and even partly into my 40s. And my parents, very much products of the Great Depression, were probably saying the same about their parents' generation.


If she is Indian doesn't that anthropogically make her Aryan and what is more white than that? At least Hitler thought so.


Are we talking about the same thing, bf?


While we consider our nation's fate, it might also be wise to look around at what is happening in the rest of the world.

Meanwhile, back at the Mosque.....LUN..scary stuff....

Ben Franklin

" it might also be wise to look around at what is happening in the rest of the world."

woot !

Amadeo Avogadro

Mr. Franklin:

You should call me sometime. Here's my number:

6.022141527 × 10^23



Looks like a job for Al Sharpton. He could figure this out....

By the way. If a man and woman are married, can they have a civil union with a same sex partner?

Just wondering....

Amadeo Avogadro

Damn you Melinda for stealing my thunder!


Black and white is simply a distinction for lobbying the government for money.

Soylent Red

All of this is good and well, but...

Is she a typical white person?

Ben Franklin

"Damn you Melinda for stealing my thunder!"

That was a beer fart....Heineken? You guys sure get excited over minutiae.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I'm 1/4 Welsh, 1/4 Scots-Irish, 1/4 French, 1/4 English and a partially disabled woman. Surely there is a minority in their somewhere.

I saw a report last night that cyber security is going to be the biggest growing field in the next 2 decades. I'm thinking of going back to school and getting a degree in cyber security. It seems like a job I could do without much standing or lifting and age would be insignificant as long as my mind stays relatively sharp. And I certainly have more computer skills than the average college freshman, less the uber-geeks, of course. I'm just a wannabe geek.

I wouldn't mind finding some minority status that would open up funding for me to do this.


Surely there is a minority in their somewhere.

Only the gender, as far as I know, which isn't something to sneeze at. (And I'm an expert in this.)


I once hired a PhD metallurgist who had a ponytail. Soon after, I got a call from a staff guy from the CEO's office. (A "black" guy, who was apparently half black, if that.)

"Is your new employee an American Indian?"

"I have no idea. The subject never came up."

"Well, could you please find out?"

"Sure. Could you tell me what percentage of American Indian blood would qualify?"

"Er... Just ask him if he's an American Indian."

I had to council the guy to tell me his great grandmother was a Cherokee.

JM Hanes

"I wish they had a "Natural Born" box to check."

I'm still laughing at that one, TK!


Surely there is a minority in their somewhere.

Ha! My mother, blue eyed and blonde haired, qualified as minority because she was some percentage American Indian. She landed a sweet gig with the Dept of Workforce Development because of it. She gave it up after about 17 years and now owns a good sized floor covering company. She says it's much more difficult but a lot more rewarding.

She married Whitey and left me, brown eyes and brown haired, just over the threshold to qualify for the same.

Kinda of a shame since government seems to be where all the job action is these days.

Such is life.

Ben Franklin

Well, you're easily entertained, JMH.....


Lighten up, Ben Francis

Ben Franklin

You should be glowing with your Potemkin victory, TK.

And, I am light-hearted. I'm sorry that emotion is foreign to you.


BF: Stay sweet to shorten your wait.

Ben Franklin

See, TK. Why can't you be sweetness and light, like Boris?


TK doesn't stand for Thread Kisser.

Ben Franklin

coulda fooled me.............


Who couldn't?

Ben Franklin

you for one....

Captain Hate

I hear several rants a week about what users and losers we Boomers are.

El JEFe was elected on our watch. We deserve to be shunned.

Jane says obamasucks

I agree that boomers are a huge problem. I think many were simply awful parents, maybe because they had so much they forgot to teach their kids the value of work.

I come from horse thieves and Indians and my business partner is a lesbian. We are probably entitled to gazillions from the government.


Too late Jane, the coffers are a tad empty. You might try Apple, they have more lucre on hand I am told.

Jane says obamasucks

I'll just call John Kerry!


Look bf, JMH was amused with what I posted. Your emotions should have allowed that. You want to battle and I don't give a shit or take shit. It took over a year for natural born jokes to pass as humor around here so don't think anyone here is "easily" amused.

You have a question still before you. Since you know you created gotcha moment, why don't you control your wild emotions and laugh with us?

Thomas Collins

I'll come to the partial defense of Boomers. The notion of the Administrative Nanny State Is All, the notion that value free social science can contribute to insights into human nature that Plato, Aristotle, Farabi and Aquinas didn't possess, and help solve tha basic problem of humans, the notion that there is no such thing as a criminal element that needs to be kept under control for society to function, none of those started with the Boomers. The Boomers may have taken advantage of the do your own thing lunacy to have fun, but the Boomers developed none of the intellectual pathologies that followed the Enlightenment.


Let's see now...the Republicans have now submitted 2 bills which were immediately tabled by the Senate. No discussion. Whoosh. They're gone.

And the dems have submitted? Unicorn farts and moonbeams so far. Even that which was discussed was almost all phantom savings.

Republicans Jim DeMint (S.C.), Lindsey Graham (S.C.), Orrin Hatch (Utah), Mike Lee (Utah), Rand Paul (Ky.), and David Vitter (La.) all voted to table the bill. What gives?

Harry Reid is the Lucy of current American politics. He locked the Republicans out of the health care bill process absolutely and completely and then voted at midnight to pass perhaps the worst crafted bill in our history; one that no one had read.

And now he expects the Republicans to trust him? Are they nuts? Better the Repubs try to peel off a few endangered Dems.

As to Brown, I shall happily donate to his primary opponent. The bastard has never held a job with bottom line responsibility. I honor his service, but he is financially clueless.

Thomas Collins

Matt, I have to respectfully depart from you on my Centerfold Senator. Brown is the best you are going to get in my deranged state.

Rick Ballard

"Brown is the best you are going to get in my deranged state."

I've always considered you to be one of our most level headed members, TC. Is your derangement recent? I'd guess it stems from an overload due to forcing yourself to be patient with trolls...

Ben Franklin

"You want to battle and I don't give a shit or take shit."

Well, I'll take shit, but I won't eat it, especially from non-charitable
punks, such as you and JMH who value their own pov more than the free exchange of opposing opinions honestly proffered. You and yours have no tolerance for anyone who disputes your scleroted
philosophy of property over people, and the Hobbesian Paradise of
greed and selfishness over charity and self-sacrifice. Your sodden souls reflect ages of devolutiion and your end will be in infamy and solitude.

Thomas Collins

Rick, I think some of the derangement of my friends in the Bay State has probably rubbed off on me (although Jane, living further away from Boston than I do, escapes some of the derangement). In 2008 some of my friends in the Bay State who claimed to be libertarian leaning supported Obama on the ground that he would know how to respond to the Financial Panic of 2008 in a way that would revitalize the economy. I know grads of the supposed elite prep schools and colleges and universities here who have never heard of Hayek, much less gave serious consideration to his and Sowell's and other Austrian School views. It is unbelievable the level of flaccid Administrative Social Therapy State groupthink that exists here. I wish I could find a real leftist Alexander Cockburn type among my circle of friends in the Boston area so I could have a real argument in a local bar.


Solitude will be tough since I have friends. My charity was my "fruit of the poisonous tree" speech I gave in your defense weeks ago.

I am off to a celebration of life for a departed friend at this moment. If you need to take a moment to calm down, I can understand. Times are tough.


I had some uncles who fought in WWII. Fortunately all made it back. I can remember as a kid listening to their stories about 'Jerry' and the 'Nips'. Some never let go the animosity developed in a foxhole while being shelled or picking up the remains of a fallen comrade. I'll never forget watching one of my uncles kick the headlights out of a Toyota on Main Street in the early '70's and the cops giving him a pass.

This same generation built the Golden Gate bridge in about 4 years and Hoover Dam in about 5 years. Hell, I've been hearing about 'I-69' for the last 25 years and due to endless studies, commissions and lawsuits am only now beginning to see dirt turned over.

Anyway, those guys came back from that war and built the greatest nation the world has ever seen.

I think what they collectively envisaged cowering in those foxholes and then built after the war was perverted beginning in the '70's when gov't at all levels began to expand.

None of those guys, including a great liberal icon like JFK, could have ever foreseen a local, state or federal gov't that regulated how many gallons of water your toilet used to get turds down the drain, what kinda light bulb you use to light your house or having to get a variance to build a tool shed on their property, exactly how it was to be constructed and then having to have some inspector sign off on it.

They were all hard men who could get things done. In my recollection they are Giants. They were The Greatest Generation.

My generation, not so much...

We can't even pass a budget.

Ben Franklin

" My charity was my "fruit of the poisonous tree" speech I gave in your defense weeks ago."

So charitable were you that it went unnoticed. Perhaps your charity
is so secretive that it has the virtue of anonymity.

Keep your help. Don't need it.................

Sara (Pal2Pal)

BF: I don't know TK, but you paint too broad a brush to include JMH. Actually, you paint too broad a brush period.

I sometimes get the impression we are some kind of lab experiment for you. Just as studies have shown that we are all capable of killing, given the right circumstances, I think your theory is that even smart, reasonable, compassionate people can be reduced to anarchy when driven to the breaking point.

Thomas Collins

Property over people, BFF. So that's your view of my friends. BFF, as a political studies academic, have you ever given serious thought to the notion that people are treated better in a society that values property rights than one that views the Social Therapy State as paramount? Have you ever seriously considered the notion that what progs criticize about hustle and bustle capitalist economies really is Original Sin that infects all societies, and that the framework of capitalism best allows folks to operate in the state of Original Sin. By the way, it is no answer to say that you don't accept the revelation of Genesis, because even if one takes a secular view of Scripture, one must come to terms with the possibility that humans have evolved to have woefully deficient opinions on good and evil, but struggle to measure the just. Thus, when we compare various ways of organizing society (feudal, social therapy state, free market, tyranny, what have you), we are comparing frameworks that must take into account imperfect human nature (whether one views such imperfections as resulting from Original Sin or the manner in which we have evolved). Because you constantly claim to desire reasoned discussion, I wonder whether you have ever applied your reasoning skills to these questions.


...your scleroted
philosophy of property over people, and the Hobbesian Paradise of
greed and selfishness over charity and self-sacrifice

Thank goodness!

Everytime I think that I'm the dumb guy on this board something like this appears to build up my self confidence.

Drew helped out in that respect too.

Ben Franklin

I try to be complimentary to the unfortunates who habituate JOM.

Ben Franklin

Well, TC, it is difficult to have reasoned discourse when you are dodging dishonest inquiries which are designed, not as revealing
probes into undiscovered nerve pathways, but as trip-wires tied to IED's.

Perhaps you are better suited to move the needle toward intellectual discovery than I am, but try I must, and try I will, by God. That, you can cash at any Bank.

Ralph L

was perverted beginning in the '70's when gov't at all levels began to expand.
The turning point was the 1964 Democratic landslide. Medicare, Medicaid, expanded Social Security, riots, and widespread crime followed.

Ben Franklin

Yeah, TC, Medicare Passed, crime increased...........

How do you approach that pov? Rolfing? Psychotherapy?

Thomas Collins

BFF, I don't think the inquiries here are dishonest. But if you do, and you want to have reasoned discourse, simply address the issues. For example, whether or not you think inquiries are dishonest here, and even if you think my even mentioning Original Sin marks me as a yahoo, you could seriously address whether a property rights society ends up treating folks better than a social state society. If you are who my friends have concluded you are, you are someone who has imbibed the atmosphere of the fact/value distinction in social science, and the notion that although social scientists can separate facts from values, they can use their social science skills to help pave the way for a more just society (which just society seems to involve a Euro social state center of gravity). You could seriously rethink these views, or you could defend them without reference to any inquiries you deem dishonest.

Ben Franklin


I think you are better at asking questions, than answering them.


The turning point was the 1964 Democratic landslide. Medicare, Medicaid, expanded Social Security, riots, and widespread crime followed.

Good catch!

Didn't they call that something like the 'Great Society'.

I'd say it's morphed into something more akin to the 'Bankrupt Society' today.

The inevitable result of playing with other peoples money.


Awww shucks Ben, I take back the intimation that your dumb. Wasn't very charitable on my part.

Fact is, the vast majority of posters on this board shine many watts brighter than I. It's why I come here. Truth be told, if you and I get into a match over Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, Kant, and Rawls your superior luminescence will be equally evident to all.

Honestly though, if you use stuff like 'Hobbesian Paradise of greed and selfishness' on this board then even the dim bulbs are gonna take a shot a you.

Thomas Collins

BFF, your comment is a slick rhetorical device. You are the one complaining about lack of reasoned discourse. By my intellectual limitations I may be incapable of giving even tentative answers to the issues I raised. But you, not I, am the one complaining about lack of reasoned discourse. Yet, you don't seem to want to apply your academic skills to address any of the underlying issues involved in the debt ceiling cap debate, which is merely one part of the self evident truths society/social therapy state debate.


It's arguable that most entitlements like Medicare really started to become unsustainable around the time that Wilbur Mills started fiddling with it, maybe
if he had spent more time with Fannie Fox,
and less in the committee room.


The turning point was the 1964 Democratic landslide. Medicare, Medicaid, expanded Social Security, riots, and widespread crime followed.

I feel so sorry for the old folks during the late 60s and early 70s. Old enough to have lived through the Depression and WWII and to watch the country crumble around them, but not young enough to live to see the Reagan recovery.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I would put the year 1968, rather than 1964. We came close to total anarchy in '68 and it was a terrible time.

Thomas Collins

BFF, do you consider Daniel Patrick Moynihan a yahoo? He was not exactly enamored of AFDC. I know your post was on Medicare, not AFDC, but AFDC was one of the Great Society programs that Dems trumpeted, and Clinton agreed to modify only after GOPers took over the House. In any event, with respect to Medicare, I think that, as "beneficiaries" of England's National Health Service have found out, the theoretical right to health care does not necessarily result in decent health care. I don't think Medicare as currently structured is sustainable. Even progs are concerned. Yet Paul Ryan doesn't even get a hearing from the progs.

Thomas Collins

Ah, Wilbur Mills and Fannie Foxe. What a couple. And Boston was one of their party places!

Mark Folkestad

Porchlight, my father died a week before Eisenhower's first win, and he told family and friends that his two greatest sorrows were that he wouldn't see me grow up and that he wouldn't see a Republican back in the White House. My mother died in Carter's first year in office, despairing that the GOP ever rescue America.

Mark Folkestad

Oops. Should be "that the GOP would ever rescue America".

Thomas Collins

In any event, I am going to have to negotiate the badlands of Boston and suburban streets to get home. Good night, all!

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