How 'Bout That Debate?

The Times covers the Republican debate.

Comments

[Appalled]

The NYT again shows how to slant your story. I mean, this lede is pretty amazing:

A withering critique of President Obama’s handling of the economy was overshadowed by a burst of incivility among the Republican presidential candidates who gathered here for a debate on Thursday night and fought to stay alive in the party’s increasingly fractious nominating race.

What was the withering critique? From whence did the burst of incivility come? And why is this the most notworthy thing about the GOP debtae?

[Thomas Collins]

Winner was Bachmann. She is clearly being taken super seriously by TPaw and Mitster.

Current top tier: Mitster and Michele.

Middle tier: TPaw.

Lower tier: Everyone else.

Teasing tier: Perry and Barracuda.

[Appalled]

And more from the NYT, about the barely concealed violence that we should expect from a den of terrorists:

Tim Pawlenty, a former Minnesota governor who is seeking to rejuvenate his campaign, repeatedly assailed Mrs. Bachmann’s record. He stood directly at her side and accused her of “making false statements” and having “a record of misstatements.”

“The American people are going to expect more and demand more,” he said. His criticism was so stinging, quiet jeers could be heard in the crowd. He added: “If that’s your view of effective leadership with results, please stop, because you’re killing us.”

I watched Cary Grant last night, rather than this? Was everyone in the debate really this mean?

[Thomas Collins]

Appalled, I think the NY Times did its duty. If it had to focus on reality, it would have had to acknowledge that Bachmann is a serious candidate. Plus, the NY Times needs to play in to what Axelplouffe's campaign is going to be: a smear campaign against whoever is the GOP nominee, with lots of urban voter fraud, playing the race and greedy millionaires and billionaires card, while at the same time mouthing civility and respect for the process platitudes. I'd say so far Pinch is serving as the ideal lower tier intellect but privileged lackey of the oligarchic elite.

[Jane]

I though Romney won (I admit I fell asleep before it was over which probably says more than anything.) And since I don't like Romney that is going some.

Bachmann, who I like, never wins me over, and I have no idea what the reason is. Something about her makes me uneasy.

[Thomas Collins]

Appalled, I think TPaw was restrained. If he doesn't gain traction very soon, he is El Toasterino.

[Captain Hate]

Tim Pawlenty, a former Minnesota governor who is seeking to rejuvenate his campaign, repeatedly assailed Mrs. Bachmann’s record. He stood directly at her side and accused her of “making false statements” and having “a record of misstatements.”

I'm not much of a T-Paw fan but I don't think this criticism is inaccurate in any way. If she advances she's going to have to respond to this anyway so why is addressing it now a bad thing?

[narciso]

Huntsman, up on that stage, probably wonders why he went David Caruso, or McLean Stevenson,

[Jane]

Boy the typos and errors in my last post are legendary. Sorry about that.

[Comanche Voter]

Well the Times had to let its readers know that those unruly natives out there in the jungle are restless. I watched the debate. Not a snoozeroo, but not that informative either. Ron Paul is the crazy uncle you need to keep locked up in the attic. Huntsman is a nice looking zero. Didn't learn much else.

[DebinNC]

Obama had two fundraisers in NYC yesterday. His schedule today shows a short afternoon meeting with unnamed "business leaders", followed by welcoming the Green Bay Packers...i.e. lots of milllionaires who aren't paying their fair share. I wonder where Obama will be spending the weekend not resting and only thinking about jobs-jobs-jobs, since no public events are scheduled.

[Ben Franklin]

Bachmann got in a few good shots, and took some, especially from her more crazy consort, Santorum.

I keep saying, but get no responders, that potential challengers to the Convention choice in both parties, is the story here. Bachmann is the most likely contender.
On the Dem side, who knows. But this blast from the past is the achilles heel of the Right. Religious fanaticism;

Here's the context of his man-on-dog comment from his interview with Lara Jakes Jordan of the Associated Press.
AP: OK, without being too gory or graphic, so if somebody is homosexual, you would argue that they should not have sex?
SANTORUM: We have laws in states, like the one at the Supreme Court right now, that has sodomy laws and they were there for a purpose. Because, again, I would argue, they undermine the basic tenets of our society and the family. And if the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything. Does that undermine the fabric of our society? I would argue yes, it does. It all comes from, I would argue, this right to privacy that doesn't exist in my opinion in the United States Constitution, this right that was created, it was created in Griswold — Griswold was the contraceptive case — and abortion. And now we're just extending it out. And the further you extend it out, the more you — this freedom actually intervenes and affects the family. You say, well, it's my individual freedom. Yes, but it destroys the basic unit of our society because it condones behavior that's antithetical to strong healthy families. Whether it's polygamy, whether it's adultery, where it's sodomy, all of those things, are antithetical to a healthy, stable, traditional family.

Every society in the history of man has upheld the institution of marriage as a bond between a man and a woman. Why? Because society is based on one thing: that society is based on the future of the society. And that's what? Children. Monogamous relationships. In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. It is one thing. And when you destroy that you have a dramatic impact on the quality —

AP: I'm sorry, I didn't think I was going to talk about "man on dog" with a United States senator, it's sort of freaking me out.

SANTORUM: And that's sort of where we are in today's world, unfortunately. The idea is that the state doesn't have rights to limit individuals' wants and passions. I disagree with that. I think we absolutely have rights because there are consequences to letting people live out whatever wants or passions they desire. And we're seeing it in our society.

AP: Sorry, I just never expected to talk about that when I came over here to interview you. Would a President Santorum eliminate a right to privacy — you don't agree with it?

SANTORUM: I've been very clear about that. The right to privacy is a right that was created in a law that set forth a (ban on) rights to limit individual passions. And I don't agree with that. So I would make the argument that with President, or Senator or Congressman or whoever Santorum, I would put it back to where it is, the democratic process. If New York doesn't want sodomy laws, if the people of New York want abortion, fine. I mean, I wouldn't agree with it, but that's their right. But I don't agree with the Supreme Court coming in."

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN (via Instapundit) for a Walter Rusell Mead piece that discusses how progs plan to profit from youth thuggery. As Mead describes, progs are already playing the "budget cuts create violence" card. I suspect this will backfire. It won't increase the turnout of the prog crowd, but it will focus attention on an issue in which persuadable voters will go with the candidate perceived as the law and order candidate.

[Ignatz]

Seems like a perfectly sensible 10th amendment argument to me.
All Santorum is saying is that these issues are not properly the domain of the Federal government but belong at the state level as they always were prior to Griswold, Roe and Lawrence.

[Ben Franklin]

"perceived as the law and order candidate."

TC;

Do you remember 'hard hats' and "Lawn-ohda' types from the 70's?

[Jim Ryan]

I suppose Cain's toast now, what with the two gaffes (mosques, right of return.)

[Thomas Collins]

As an example of the thuggery, see LUN for an article on a black teen who quite candidly acknowledged that he was targeting whites. Be prepared for progs to try to spin this type of thuggery as an example of white racism (budget cuts caused by those white Tea Partiers cause minority yute despair). It's Kerner Commission, Radical Chic thinking brought to the 21st century. My hope and prediction is that it will explode in the faces of those progs who try to play this version of the race card.

[Dave (in MA)]

TC, in an OT London riot thread on a music forum I read, a Brit leftie posted the following, trying to blame the unrest on the so-called Conservative government:

1979 - Conservatives win power after a Labour Government
1981 - riots
2010 - Conservatives win power after a Labour Government
2011 - riots

to which I replied:

1979 - Conservatives win power after a Labour Government
1981 - riots by Labour constituents
2010 - Conservatives win power after a Labour Government
2011 - riots by Labour constituents

to which he replied that the rioters were either unlikely to be voters or too young to vote, my point having completely sailed over his head.

[Jane]

As an example of the thuggery, see LUN for an article on a black teen who quite candidly acknowledged that he was targeting whites. Be prepared for progs to try to spin this type of thuggery as an example of white racism

It seems to me we are approaching a tipping point on this white v black, thugs v taxpayer's issue.

[Thomas Collins]

I remember all of it, BFF. I think the racism progs ascribed to Nixon's 1968 campaign missed the point that people thought that society was breaking down.

By the way, BFF, growing up in that era, I also remember progs accusing whites who decried welfare as racists. Well, in the area I grew up in, the venom of the working people in my neighborhood was also directed against folks on welfare . . . white folks in the neighborhood who were on the dole.

I had first hand experience with prog thinking in the 70s. I went to Brown University in Providence, RI. I looked at my experience there as akin to an anthropologist studying a peculiar tribe. In my case, the peculiar tribe I got to study was rich white kids who decried capitalist society but who somehow never seemed to be able to wean themselves from mommy's or daddy's trust (or prior ancestors' generation skipping trust). I thought that was odd, since those trusts were no doubt funded by money from the corrupt society the darlings were decrying.

[Janet]

What exactly have the "religious fanatics" made anyone do?
It is the "secular fanatics" & "green fanatics" that are the intrusive ones...bossing us around, banning objects, speech, traditions,...Dictating what products we can use.

[Thomas Collins]

Typos or no typos, it's great that you're posting again, Jane. Now if we could only get H&R and clarice back (perhaps they already are and I haven't gone through the threads carefully enough).

[henry]

Jane, that spin didn't work out very well on Tuesday. : )

[Ben Franklin]

Cameron has been trying to control 'tweets' used by rioters to organizize (sic) and go after them post-riot.....

McIntyre is the Media bad-boy du jour........

http://hurryupharry.org/2011/08/10/the-end-of-jody-mcintyre/
"The End of Jody McIntyre
Lucy Lips, August 10th 2011, 4:19 pm

Jody McIntyre’s tweets, urging the masses of London to rise up against the “Feds” resulted in his sacking from the Independent blog:

Following his recent tweets and statements on the London riots, The Independent will no longer be taking blogs from Jody McIntyre.

Then, it transpired that Mr McIntyre had appeared at a Palestine Solidarity Campaign meeting, urging people to set London ‘alight’.

“I say this at a time when people across the Arab world are setting alight to themselves in protest against their governments. We must take inspiration from them this year when we set the streets of London alight.”

Now Jody McIntyre’s “Q & A With Jody McIntyre, Activist Who Observed Brixton Riots” has been removed by the Huffington Post:

Editor’s Note: The Huffington Post’s editorial policy prohibits the promotion of incitement to riot. It has been brought to our attention that some of the comments made by the interviewee in this article could be construed as inciting others to take part in unlawful activity.

As such, we have removed this post.

Not to worry. Jody McIntyre is still as enthusiastic and upbeat as ever. Looking forward to his upcoming Channel 4 Online show:

[bolitha]

I agree with Jane re Bachmann. Pawlenty is trying to be someone he isn't. Romney is usually too cautious, but I did enjoy seeing him speaking to a crowd before the debate and actually acting like a live, human being. It's a shame about Cain because I like him whatever his gaffes. Santorum is toast, and I think Newt acted great in the debate, but I think it is too late.

[Ben Franklin]

"What exactly have the "religious fanatics" made anyone do?"

Forced (by law) subscription to their values......Need I create a list?

[Threadkiller]

Jim, I actually moved Cain up a notch after last nights performance. He is not topping the list, but I saw he was prepared to addresses his gaffes. Priss Wallace promised to give him time and didn't.

[narciso]

Fracking idiot, you can't even work around that kind of stupid, maybe if the people burned out of their homes, gave him a piece
of their mind

[Thomas Collins]

I look forward to seeing Jody McIntyre marching in solidarity with those Brit yutes at their next peaceful demonstration in which they take time off from their marching to deliver wide screen TVs to those in need.

[Neo]

A stunning new survey gives the president a negative approval rating in the Empire State for the first time, with just 45 percent approval and 49 percent disapproval among voters, according to the latest Quinnipiac University poll.

That's a sharp turnaround from June, when Obama's New York popularity was a healthy 57-38.

[narciso]

Rush is saying, he heard the Fox people spent
weeks going over these questions,

[Jim Ryan]

Cain was the Great White Hope. He gets freedom, limited government and prosperity and can explain them well and defend them with guts. He can keep muddle interested in what he's saying. Oh, well.

[Thomas Collins]

Now that I think of it, perhaps I am too harsh on the Brit, Chicago, Philly and Wisconsin State Fair yutes. I just thought of a great place for them. They all should be given full scholarships and room and board so they can attend the schools with extensive speech and dating codes (see LUN for an article on this). Then let's see the nanny administrators enforce their vision of appropriate conduct on the yutes!

[Ignatz]

--....Need I create a list?--

Thou shall not kill?
Thou shall not steal?
Thou shall not bear false witness?

[Jane]

TC,

It took me a full week and a couple of cocktails to get over myself, but I did.

Of course pointing out rampant stupidity is a good motivator too.

[Jane]

Last year someone posted a link of a place to get books online cheap. Anyone remember what it is?

[Ben Franklin]

Iggy;

Some laws are necessarily Nationwide...That's why we call it the...
UNITED States of America. We can't have voting laws based upon 'local standards' wherein poll taxes can be collected in Texas, for example.

[Neo]

Confidence among U.S. consumers plunged in August to the lowest level since May 1980, adding to concern that weak employment gains and volatility in the stock market will prompt households to retrench.

Barack Carter ?

[Porchlight]

I am glad you are back, Jane.

[Captain Hate]

I agree with Jane re Bachmann.

I do too; to me she's the embodiment of everything the people who hate Palin say about Sarah, only in Michele's case it seems more befitting.

[Ben Franklin]

--....Need I create a list?--

Thou shall not kill?
Thou shall not steal?
Thou shall not bear false witness?

I think just one will do......

ttp://in.christiantoday.com/articles/us-christians-protest-new-gay-marriage-law/6481.htm

[Thomas Collins]

Jane, did you have something like the LUNed site in mind?

[Dave (in MA)]

Neo, you forgot to include the pic to go with your caption.

[Ann]

I didn't watch the debate. I just listened from another room. Everytime the buzzer rang our dog went to the front door and barked. Maybe that is why I found it so annoying.

To me Gingrich won the debate and I really can't explain it but I don't like Michelle B.

Just love NOT OBAMA These candidates have to get serious. They sounded foolish picking on each when we are under such a dire threat.

[DebinNC]

Jane, I usually buy books used via Fetchbook.

[rse]

Dave-there's a reply to you on the previous thread about Ayers and the AERA complaining that scrutiny of him was in the way of his academic freedom.

Also replies to Mark on history and Sue on the Soviets and a first strike.

Jane-Bachmann is more impressive than most predicted. I think what I pick up on is that she has beliefs that influence her that no amount of reality and whatever comes in the future will change. Her relative inexperience in the public eye means she does not hide that well. She has that aura of being divinely guided without quite enough wisdom from experience to temper it.

Finally, for all of you annoyed by Arne Duncan and Bo's belief they can just give waivers for laws they do not like as long as states do what they wish policywise in areas they are supposed to have no role in-
the LUN satire should make you smile.

[centralcal]

TC: Clarice will be scarce all this month as she is on Grand Jury duty. Don't have a clue what became of Hit.

[glasater]

I know he is a good guy and was a good governor but Tim Pawlenty didn't impress me at all last evening.

[narciso]

Glenn Kessler was a tool on the Middle East, so much like Friedman, they brought him stateside,

[Jane]

Ann,

You made my day/week/month.

How are you feeling?

[Dave (in MA)]

Jane, I don't know if this is the same one, but: http://www.abebooks.com

[Ben Franklin]

" She has that aura of being divinely guided without quite enough wisdom from experience to temper it."

Anointed by God? This is getting scarier and scarier.

[Jim Ryan]

Hmm. Maybe what's bothering you, Jane, is that Bachmann knows she's smart and seems a little bit overly confident in her judgment. Part of having good judgment is to have doubts about it, to be inclined to calm, circumspect reflection and yet to be able to do this quickly at 3am. Reagan, Palin, and even Slick seem to have this quality. But this is ethereal speculation about seemings, of course.

[Threadkiller]

The debate was a success as far as I am concerned. The press is no longer “off limits”; audience reaction proved that. The other networks will get their asses handed to them if they ask typical questions. I hope everybody on the stage learned that from Newt and Cain.

Everyone seemed prepared to demolish Obama in debate. Well everyone except Huntsman. He seems a little too nervous and trembled while speaking. If this campaign does not work out for him he should see if they are going to remake BeWitched. He would be a terrific Dick. Otherwise I suggest he reviews Napoleon Dynamite and attempts a dance routine for the win.

[Jim Ryan]

Holy mackerel, rse, you and I posted at the same time the same idea about Bachmann.

[Thomas Collins]

BFF, I don't recall you expressing being scared when so many were anointing Obama in 2008 (and he was anointing himself). Is a charismatic leader not a concern to you as long as there isn't too much God talk involved?

[Porchlight]

These candidates have to get serious. They sounded foolish picking on each when we are under such a dire threat.

I agree, Ann, but I feel better when I remember that the likely winner of the primary wasn't even standing up there last night.

[Ignatz]

--Iggy;

Some laws are necessarily Nationwide...That's why we call it the...
UNITED States of America.--

Yeah, and some are not. The Constitution did a pretty good job of spelling out which ones in its enumerated powers.
I resist at every opportunity the continuing effort to expand those enumerated powers to meaninglessness.

[Jane]

Jim,

I dunno what it is. I actually like her. I like her spunk. She seems a little too programmed maybe. And I sort of don't like her fronting for the tea party. I don't think elected officials should do that, cause they report to us.

If she were nominated, I would certainly get over it.

[MayBee]

I don't think Cain is going to be president or anything, but I kind of love that he's willing to admit that he needs to look into issues more before he comments, or says he's learned something since he made a prior comment.

I wish they'd all do that, rather than just bluster through answering the question they wish they'd been asked and shining no light.

[Jane]

Thanks for all the book recommendations. What I really want is a bunch of Brad Thor's while I am waiting for the next Vince Flynn to come out in November.

[DrJ]

Hit is taking a break. He still reads as he can. Don't worry: he'll be back!

[Captain Hate]

Part of having good judgment is to have doubts about it, to be inclined to calm, circumspect reflection and yet to be able to do this quickly at 3am. Reagan, Palin, and even Slick seem to have this quality.

One of those three's automatic reaction to being woken at 3 am is "I can explain my whereabouts".

[Dave (in MA)]

rse, pretty laughable when you look at their idea of "academic freedom".

[Ignatz]

--Thou shall not kill?
Thou shall not steal?
Thou shall not bear false witness?

I think just one will do......

ttp://in.christiantoday.com/articles/us-christians-protest-new-gay-marriage-law/6481.htm--

My three point list was to demonstrate that it is a conceit that we can eliminate all laws which have religious concepts as the basis of their morality and that there is almost no one who believes we should.

The question, as always, is not one of absolutes but where one would draw the line.

[Threadkiller]

I have crafted a speech for Bachmann, so you won't fear her, BF:

"The journey will be difficult. The road will be long. I face this challenge with profound humility, and knowledge of my own limitations. But I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people. Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth. This was the moment—this was the time—when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves and our highest ideals. Thank you, God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America."

Last time you heard this, did you put a crease in your own pants?

[Ben Franklin]

Anyone care about 'jobs'? Urban trash (I don't mean looters)?

Pay someone to clean up.

Hey Iggy! We don't need the WPA.
....
it can be a local solution.....

ttp://www.philly.com/philly/news/20110812_Dirty_little_secret__We_have_a_filthy_image.html?cmpid=124488704

[centralcal]

I feel the same way, MayBee. So many just spout the current wisdom or talking point of the day, and you know damned well, they have no more depth of knowledge than that. In addition, no one person can be expert in every area, that is what a well chosen cabinet is supposed to supplement, isn't it?

Ann - didn't see you up there! I would vote for Bachmann, but I am not a big fan of her, either.

[Janet]

Last year someone posted a link of a place to get books online cheap. Anyone remember what it is?

I don't remember the name, but I think it was Pagar that would post about a good discount book place.

[(Another) Barbara]

Newt Gingrich was the smartest person there, by leaps. Too bad that his chances of getting the nomination or winning the presidency are about equal to mine.

Bachmann: She's no Sarah Palin. Too bad.

Huntsman, Pawlenty and Santorum: Finished, but still standing. Probably not for long.

Cain: Oh what fun it would be to have him over for dinner or get together with him for a couple of beers. An admirable fellow who will never be POTUS, but you can't help but love him just the same. He'd be Miss Congeniality if they had that catgory for political candidates.

Ron Paul: (sigh) He speaks many truths but on foreign policy, is living in the 19th Century. And he's old and always looks like he missed his last dose of Prozac. He raised a good kid, though.

Romney: All things considered, probably helped himself last night. Good looking, articulate and undoubtedly clean. He's the frontrunner right now but we will see what happens after Perry's announcement.

[Jim Ryan]

I like her, too, Jane.

Cap'n: snork! You know that ability is deeply ingrained in Slick.

[Ben Franklin]

TK;

I don't fear Bachmann. I fear those who think she is Divinely Anointed....

So, your speech, although well intended, gives precious little comfort.
Even if she spoke the words, she's a candidate running for elected office.

I don't listen to words as much as I watch behaviors.........

[Belarus Bytes]

BF,

To what extent, if any, do you think morals should play in the laws of a society. From your earlier comments, my assumption is that you find some moral attributes necessary and/or desirable but others not. What criteria are you using to choose between those attributes which should be codified into law and those which should be left to the individual?

[DebinNC]

And Jane, Ebay has some Brad Thor lots.

Re the debate, Obama beat stellar Dem contenders Chris Dodd, John Edwards, and Bill Richardson, all of whom should be in jail.

[Ben Franklin]

"My three point list was to demonstrate that it is a conceit that we can eliminate all laws which have religious concepts as the basis of their morality and that there is almost no one who believes we should.

The question, as always, is not one of absolutes but where one would draw the line."

No one would argue against your list. It's the application of those principles which is in question.

My thinking on where you draw the line is;

If you are disturbed by the content of movies shown in theatres

Don't go to that movie.

If you are upset about gays having rights to Marriage.

Don't be a homosexual

[Jane]

So the lefty's are all pushing the "violence is caused by inequality" meme.

I suspect this is the latest talking point trial, so we better be ready.

[Threadkiller]

Let’s watch together and see if the audience is a group you need to worry about, BF.

[Neo]

Ron Paul: the plucky comic relief

[Sue]

And if marriage to your doggy or your brother/sister is your cup of tea don't apply principles just ignore it. Society is poised for it anyway...

[centralcal]

Perfect description, AB, of the candidates!

[Jane]

Deb,

That is fabulous thank you.

[Jim Ryan]

Newt's problem is that he's a geek (not science or math but history and politics.) He was born without that part of the brain which inhibits geeky behavior.

[Ben Franklin]

"violence is caused by inequality" meme."

Nobody is saying all violence comes from inequality, but it does happen. (See Egypt, Libya, Syria)

I have had many discussions with ex-pats from the ME about how
to approach this.

Ghandi used non-violent, non-cooperation to convince the Brits to leave India.

Nothing scares Power like losing the financial and service benefits of their societal structure. When money and goods stop flowing, it terrifies.

MLK understood this, but I could not convince the ex-pats of the
advantages of non-viloence.

[MayBee]

Debbie-- too true.

ccal- you are so in my head lately.

[Ben Franklin]

"And if marriage to your doggy or your brother/sister is your cup of tea don't apply principles just ignore it"

Wow! That Straw Man is the size of the Burning Man.

[narciso]

No, re Kevin Jennings, or that indiscriminate
anti Extremist campaign,

[Thomas Collins]

BFF, once again, I am going to ask you to put yourself in the shoes of the person many JOMers say you are (a poly sci professor with research and academic interests, among others, in political psychology and anarchism). I figure you are either that person or can put yourself in that person's place. In any event, my question is, are Gandhi's activities really a helpful framework in which to view non-violence? Isn't it likely that Gandhi used non-violence as part of a grand strategy against a decaying empire that was unlikely to use violent repression to hold onto power? Don't you think a person of Gandhi's strategic depth might have acted in a different manner if he were, say, trying to overthrow el-Qadafi?

[Appalled]

Ben:

You did recognize Threadkiller's quoted speech, didn't you? If not...google will be your guide.

[Extraneus]

Of the people who say there's something about Bachmann that they just don't like, it seems like there are a bigger number who like Palin than who don't. I fall into this category myself, but I thought the conventional wisdom was that Bachmann was reaching the Palin voters. Maybe that's totally wrong.

[Threadkiller]

Awww, you spoiled it. ;-)

[Chubby]

((It took me a full week and a couple of cocktails to get over myself, but I did))

I'm very happy to see you posting again Jane.

[narciso]

There's something natural, confident about her, that you don't see with Bachmann,

http://yfrog.com/nygagsaj/

[Captain Hate]

Ghandi used non-violent, non-cooperation to convince the Brits to leave India.

Have any of your students ever challenged this as a breathtakingly simplistic view of a complex situation?

[narciso]

Sorry, wrong image,

http://yfrog.com/nygugsaj/

[Ranger]

but I could not convince the ex-pats of the advantages of non-viloence.

How's that non-violent resistance working out in Syria?

[Ben Franklin]

TC;

Yes, there had to be a fundamental decency inherent in the occupying country's structure in that part of History.

But there is a greater dynamic operating in today's World.

Immediate feedback (internet, 24 hr news cycle) was not present for Ghandi.

World opinion does matter, and this is the element that worked in Egypts favor..........That decency need not be confined to the occupying power any longer. The World is Watching.

[Ann]

Jane:

Thanks! I missed all of you too.

Pagar's Book recommendation is BetterWorldBooks.com.

They always ship free but I think they use the pony express. I use them all the time and think they are great.

Too rusty to link but there are coupons here: http://www.savings.com/BetterWorld.com-New-Used-Rare-Books-and-Textbooks/coupons.ehtml?id=282590&clickid=167904071-1313168296871-7958800697081180382&placementid=11325719&creativeId=5874978431&gclid=CLbq5Y6dyqoCFYXBKgodFBX9zA&searchTerm=BetterWorldBooks+Coupon

[Extraneus]

You should use Preview to verify your links, narciso.

[Porchlight]

but I thought the conventional wisdom was that Bachmann was reaching the Palin voters. Maybe that's totally wrong.

I think she's reaching some, but certainly not all.

For some reason she also seems to convince some Palin skeptics; I confess I'm not sure how. She has most of the Palin negatives and in my view, very few of the positives.

[Extraneus]

Hi Ann!