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October 14, 2011

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Danube of Thought

I don't find any conflict between the "few weeks" testimony and the timeline we now have. And if one thinks he was trying to make it sound like, say, three weeks instead of the actual five, the next question is "why?" Would he lie under oath to chop off a couple of weeks? Even if he didn't get caught in the lie, what would it benefit him?

I think he's just a dunce who spoke carelessly.

Jane

When did Holder appoint the IG?


I think he's just a dunce who spoke carelessly.

I think he has known about it since its inception. I think the order went from Obama to Holder.

That's what I think. Of course I can't prove it, yet.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Hey, time flies when you're planning civilian trials for Qaeda terrorists and investigating the CIA.

Nah, he was busying reversing himself on closing Calif. marijuana dispensaries that have their own local growers. Wouldn't want his Mexican Cartel friends to lose any more market share than they have already.

Clarice

Haul everyone before a grand jury without their notes. Ask them to detail every conversation about the operation. Everyone will certainly have a different recollection. Grant immunity to the one most likely to have lied if he rats out
the one most likely to be the target of media and DC citizen 10 minute hate and indict him.


It's a simple thing right out of the SDNY US Atty playbook.

NK

DOT-- have to disagree with you again. I'm sold on the likelihood that F&F really was a disasterous amoral attempt to advance gun restrictions that was incompetently administered (mais bien sur!!) and dozens? hundreds? of Mexican nationals and at least 1 ATF agent were killed with "walked" guns. Thus, Holder and the Obamaniac have spent the last 11 months trying to act like F&F never existed and if it did they didn't know about it. This is a plain old DC cover up-- only without the breathless Legacy Media coverage.

NK

Clarice-- after you indict, take the plea and get the confessed miscreant to testify to Issa's committee under the Klieg lights and name names-- just like Iran-Contra 25 years ago.

Danube of Thought

NK, all of that may very well be true. But it doesn't explain why Holder would have lied to make his discovery of the program appear two weeks more recent than an actual date that could be proved. If he had known about the program for a year and was going to lie, why wouldn't he have lied by saying he learned about it in March?

In short, whether it's a lie or not, I don't think "in the past few weeks" is inconsistent with March.

Danube of Thought

Clarice--did the final sentence of your first paragraph at 3:05 get garbled?

henry

Danube, I think she was refering to the Special District New York (SDNY) where Guiliani and Spitzer worked. However my Federal acronym decipherer is rusty.

henry

Oops, if I could read properly I wouldn't have posted that.

NK

DOT-- my take. That's what happens when people decide to cover up; they tell stupid lies, ridiculous half truthes, they are inconsistent with co-conspirators. Happens all the time, especially with DC politicians. Holder is just trying to delay and stall the truth coming out. So, he 'll say stupid and inconsistent things. Didn't Libby and the reporters do that back in the day?

maryrose

DOT:
I think the opposite is true. Because of the John King reference ,now Holder can claim March when in fact he originally in his arrogance was trying to cover his behind by claiming ignorance. There is no way Obama knew and Holder didn't. No AG is that lazy.

Charlie (Colorado)

Speaking of faster than light, there's a new paper up on Arxiv that may explain the FTL neutrinos.

Basically, they were synchronizing usin GPS satellites, and too everything into account except one little thing:

Because the GPS satellites are travelling at around 5 miles per second, there's a significant relativistic effect compared to the ground. That effect, from the satellite's frame of reference, shortens the distance between the 2 ends of the experiment by about 32 light-nanoseconds. The structure of the experiment is such that the total time is out-and-back, so the total Lorentz foreshortening is about 64 light-nanoseconds.

How must ahead of time were the neutrinos arriving?

64 nanoseconds.

Clarice

Yes, Dot..I meant indict the pre-ordained target.
Hey, Chaco, so Einstein still rules? Yeah.

Thomas Collins

A nanosecond walks into a bar . . . .

matt

Selling 2,900 "assault weapons", Barret .50 cal sniper rifles, and other firearms into the hands of the drug cartels almost certainly required cabinet level knowledge if not approval.

The political ramifications in a hyperpolitical administration would probably have to have been considered.The IG just sort of disappeared into the woodwork.

I think the sun was in their eyes, Charlie.

Clarice

WH dumps CLASS feature of Obamacare--first the waivers, now this..How many pp are left?

Also, it's no longer jobs saved or created. It's not jobs "supported".

lyle

Bush did it too, you wingerz!

peter

OT, but wouldn't this little girl be better off if her people assimilated with the mainstream?

Danube of Thought

"There is no way Obama knew and Holder didn't. No AG is that lazy."

Agreed. But by saying the "last few weeks" Holder can argue that he's placing his discovery of the scheme at the same time as Obama's. I'm by no means saying he's not lying; I'm just saying that those two tapes, without more, don't prove it.

Rick Ballard

"don't prove it"

That's true but the serious nature of the allegations is sufficient for the invocation of the Schumer Standard requiring 10-12 months worth of continuous investigation.

I believe that the AG should acknowledge that he was so involved in working up a legal memo in support of breaking the law in the Solyndra matter that he just didn't notice the DoJ program to arm Mexican drug cartels.

Soylent Red

almost certainly required cabinet level knowledge if not approval.

The choices for the Administration right now are

a. perjury
b. stupidity

Either way, it spells "fail".

But let's not sell Issa short on this. Smart prosecutors don't ask questions they don't already know the answers to. I get the real feeling that Issa is sitting on something, possibly yielded through Melson's testimony, that will nail the coffin closed. Boy, I sure hope so. Would love to see our resident Constitutional Professor (head of the mostest transparent administration evah!) take the stand without a teleprompter, after Holder dimes him out to save his own skin.

I know it probably won't happen. But a guy can dream, can't he.

NK

DOT-- Libby was convicted of "misrecalling" conversations like that.

maryrose

I can't wait to see Holder testify before Issa on C-Span. I'm already buying more popcorn. I think if they phrase the question a certain way and also include questions about Obama's knowledge they can trip him up.
DOT:
I believe there are more e-mails and that the ones released so far are the safe ones. I'm just waiting for the fatal shoe to drop. The fact that so much info is redacted is also a red flag into this failed oppo. When this big of a screw -up occurs,someone has to take the fall. In this case, the music has stopped and Holder doesn't have a chair to sit in or an explanation that will be believed.

Soylent Red

I believe that the AG should acknowledge that he was so involved in working up a legal memo in support of breaking the law in the Solyndra matter that he just didn't notice the DoJ program to arm Mexican drug cartels.

And if you don't believe him, why, just ask Malik Shabazz who was hanging around the office that day. He'll tell you.

maryrose

Holder was busy preparing his testimony about"my people" being harassed and unduly prosecuted. He was also too busy telling all who would listen that no way in hell were the Philadelphia Black Panthers going down.

Boatbuilder

I predict that the MSM will be bombarding us over the next few weeks with the breathless revelations that the ATF under Bush authorized gunwalking. Lyle is joking but that is not just a dodge for commenters, it will be the full-on substance of the pushback. It's all they have and it will be used to shout down anything else.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I thought there were reports that Holder had been briefed in late 2010?

Re: Cabinet level approval?

Obama rarely meets with his Cabinet, so I doubt they were informed.

maryrose

Boatbuilder:
That stategy is not going to work and the American people will not be fooled. There is blood on their hands and the memos don't lie. Someone is going to have to be held accountable for this.

maryrose

Fox news is all over this and the sham MSNBC tactics will not wash.

Old Lurker

Soy what's wrong with "All of the above"?

Soylent Red

Fox news is all over this and the sham MSNBC tactics will not wash.

Most of the people at MSNBC don't wash.Why should their tactics?


OL:

Of course, you're right. That's one thing I should have learned in the last three years - stupid and evil are not mutually exclusive.

Porchlight

I'm sold on the likelihood that F&F really was a disasterous amoral attempt to advance gun restrictions

Remember that spate of MSM stories that all came out around the same time in 2009 about how the drug violence in Mexico was abetted by US gun sales?

Here is but one of many examples:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/world/americas/26iht-border.4.20459692.html

Journolisters must have helped coordinate that one. At any rate, it was clear that the administration was preparing the ground for something. I, too, believe it was gun control-related.

Jane

I get the real feeling that Issa is sitting on something, possibly yielded through Melson's testimony, that will nail the coffin closed

My only claim to fame, which I repeat here as often as possible, is that I am the only person I know of who predicted the bombing Clinton ordered when he was flying back from Israel and the democrats were about to tell him to resign.

Today we find the president has sent troops to Uganda. Not anywhere near the same thing, but as with the whole foiled Iranian terrorist attack, I'm pretty sure panic has set in. Obama isn't as smart as Clinton and a whole lot nastier, so I suspect it is about to get very interesting around here.

And I also think Issa has a smoking gun. Not to mention what came out on Solyndra today. The administration may, however, have a bigger one. As we know, they don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

Melinda Romanoff

Why is everyone looking at Cabinet involvement when all the power has been vested in the "Czars"? I think DoT is correct in his view that there's no "gotcha" in the tapes, especially taking into account the elusiveness of just what "a couple of weeks" might mean. Why, it's right up there with "is"!

Secondly, it's my belief that this was policy from the evening of January 20, 2008, forward. I think it was kim who posted a proposed UN resolution ceding global governance of weapons to the UN. Might have been rse, I can't remember right now. This was a method to remove the sovereignty of the Second Amendment by stealth. What totalitarian wouldn't love that?

Melinda Romanoff

Jane-

The lending to donors companies will be the end game, not F&F. The extent and breadth of this will be way bigger, as the info on loans starts to really be dug into. It won't be by MFM, but curious and determined citizens. This Admin is too dumb to have left it up to earmarks, they would've wanted complete control of the money, and where it went. Total Chicago. Oooh boy, this is going to be good, IF it transpires as I think it will.

Jane

I agree Mel, except for the F&F murders. You can't forget that. Solyndra will indeed look uglier, but no one should forget Brian Terry.

Porchlight

Secondly, it's my belief that this was policy from the evening of January 20, 2008, forward.

I think you mean 2009, Mel. And I agree.

Jack is Back!

henry,

Its Southern District New York, right? Not special.

Remember, in all of this it will be the cover-up that nails them. What we need is for the new PJ and alternative media to step up much like Drudge did with Clinton-Lewinsky and blow this up to the point where it cannot be ignored. John King is a start but expect walk back in 10..9...8...

Janet

Remember that spate of MSM stories that all came out around the same time in 2009 about how the drug violence in Mexico was abetted by US gun sales?

The WaPo had them too. Again, it would be interesting if some real reporters looked into how much the Dems & the MFM are/were in cahoots as to laying the groundwork for gun control laws.

Danube of Thought

"Libby was convicted of 'misrecalling' conversations like that."

Not really. There is a materiality standard for perjury (or obstruction, or lying to congress). A prosecutor couldn't meet that standard here.

I am hoping fervently that Issa has the goods. And it's my understanding that Wide Receiver did, indeed, involve allowing guns to go south, but that all of them were tracked and arrests were made. Not sure. Anyhow, "Bush did it too" is a bit unseemly coming from these guys who have spent three years trashing the man.

Rick Ballard

Janet,

It would be interesting to consider what other memes were being pushed in the first heady hours of The Thousand Day Reich. There's no way that the malicious stupidity of Holder and Chu was not matched or surpassed elsewhere in the Maladministration.

henry

Thanks JiB.

Ignatz

Let's not forget that these lunatics allowed a couple of thousand grenades to be shipped south of the border, down Me-hico way, also.

Jane

WH is refusing to release Solyndra docs.

I wonder why.

Here we go.

scott

Another nail in the Obamacare coffin. Sebelius taps out on CLASS act. Put that in your day of action and smoke it. Happy Red October Comrades!

hit and run

Rick:
The Thousand Day Reich.

Yike. We're three days away from realizing that milestone...

By the way,I'm late with the Ras Stat of the Day . . . from yesterday.

Yesterday Obama reached 47% overall approval (which was matched again today),for the first time in 66 days. Ras has picked up on an uptick . . . for some reason

And at 53% overall disapproval,today marks the 125th consecutive day of Obama's overall disapproval being >=50%.

Soylent Red

Yike. We're three days away from realizing that milestone...

It just seems like longer.

hit and run

Only 463 days to go...

It just seems like several trillion.

Soylent Red

Only 463 days to go...It just seems like several trillion.

And miles to go before I sleep. And miles to go before I sleep.

Janet

Happy Red October Comrades!

Back at ya, scott!

Danube of Thought

If you look at the daily RCP Average, the overall approval at Raz has been at or near the top for several weeks now. For example, Gallup has it at 40% today. I am at a loss to explain it.

Jack is Back!

How much of OWS is helping Obama poll numbers. Never discount the American naiveté for the "underdog" or the "underachiever". There is a reason, The Simpsons are so popular.

Rick Ballard

Geez, guys, put yourself in the shoes of a rabid poli-sci prof reading Jay Cost's piece this morning, verifying the independent's 35% share at Gallup and then staring at that bright red map while realizing that it could well mean a 62-63 GOP Senate majority.

I plan to enjoy each of those 463 days as the map just keeps getting redder.

hit and run

JiB:
How much of OWS is helping Obama poll numbers.

I've enjoyed Instapundit's pimping of "President Goldman Sachs" for more than just the hits it's given me. The OWSies' rage should eventually turn on him (if we can keep their attention on being outraged long enough).

For example,I steered him toward the JWF post today where Mike Lupica,frothing liberal,was openly questioning why the OWSies aren't protesting at the WH too.

Must keep OWSies enraged....(I'll again say it -- if the Koch brothers aren't helping fund the occupiers . . . they should be)

Jack is Back!

Hit,

What i am afraid of is that some stupid turd (either a politician or a OWS eegit) will follow up on Donny Deutch's aspiration for a Kent State redux. Of course the NYPD is much better trained and led than the poor Ohio National Guard back then but just he same, the only way this ends good for the occupiers, the Dems, Sorry-os and the JEF is for a little tangential or direct violence that they can pin on "stupid actions" by the cops or some retired tea party member with one of those poison dart canes.

Jack is Back!

Hit,

What i am afraid of is that some stupid turd (either a politician or a OWS eegit) will follow up on Donny Deutch's aspiration for a Kent State redux. Of course the NYPD is much better trained and led than the poor Ohio National Guard back then but just he same, the only way this ends good for the occupiers, the Dems, Sorry-os and the JEF is for a little tangential or direct violence that they can pin on "stupid actions" by the cops or some retired tea party member with one of those poison dart canes.

bgates

It just seems like several trillion.

You're thinking of dollars of debt from President Net Spending Cut.

Speaking of which, the debt has increased by four billion, two hundred fifty nine million, seven hundred eighty six thousand, six hundred forty eight dollars per day during his glorious reign.

daddy

Just arrived in Milano and turned on the tube and it is CNN---Piers whatshisface interviewing Sean Penn. I have to say it is a tough choice deciding what is Sean Penn's finer quality--his looks or his brains.

OldTimer

And then there's Obama's gun retailer remarks to Sarah and Jim Brady on March 30th, 2011...

http://patdollard.com/2011/05/obama-were-working-on-gun-control-under-the-radar/

This article was posted May 26th, 2011

Ralph L Jane

bombing Clinton ordered when he was flying back from Israel
Wasn't it Martha's Vineyard? On the day Monica returned to the grand jury in August 98?

Jane

I thought it was Israel. At any rate it was about a week before Christmas. I was in New Orleans. Fun times!

Rick Ballard

Jane,

I have visions of midnight oil burning at the Pentagon as invasion plans for Paraguay, Andorra and Tonga are dusted off and reviewed.

narciso

Isn't there some genuinely gratuitous Berlusconi programming on over there.

rse

mel & others-

Yes this does fit into my story. OMG somebody must be upset with how sloppy they are with the template.

Here's the motto-use the veneer of capitalism plus govt power. Now each of us should think about what that combo and what we know of our respective industries and specialties could do or should fear if that's the operating motto. And then listen to the news.

It is the ingenuity of human beings that is feared.

Let's be collectively and collaboratively ingenious just for spite. Anybody else in?

Melinda Romanoff

rse-

Unfortunately, I'm armed with all thumbs when under pressure for this stuff. Throw economics at me and I'll answer faster, and simpler, than most, probably not Rick or Iggy, but most.

Ralph L Jane

December 98 would have been the bombing right before the House impeachment vote, which mysteriously ended right after they finished voting.

henry

rse, I'm in. Ingenuity is what I'm supposed to be up to everyday as is. Unfortunately making it easier for firms to comply with big business and government regs (the focus of my efforts) may be the opposite of what you are suggesting. So I am open to suggestions.

Soylent Red

as invasion plans for Paraguay, Andorra and Tonga are dusted off and reviewed.

Please God...let it be someplace with nice beaches and acceptable warbrides.

Melinda Romanoff

Ok, I weenied out too early. I'll stomp in with all thumbs and a size 12 mouth.

What's up your sleeve?

(I can do the mass conference call. I have accounts for that.)

rse

You're not under pressure on my end Mel. We have coordination going on if we will only look back and think about what we are respectively hearing.

We have so much expertise chatting with each other here. We have lives but lots of people primarily have aspirations using govt power. Knowing that going into 2012 we need to call out what we notice.

Porchlight

Speaking of doing the time warp, OT but Mr. Porch is playing a wedding in Houston tonight, and Pamela des Barres is the girlfriend of the opener (a friend of theirs). They are all hanging out on the patio. He says she looks pretty good for a 63 year old groupie.

Jane

Rick,

It's Uganda. What a joke.

Ralph, It was his only out at the time. I've been paying far too much attention for far too long.

henry

Ah, so tidbits like new fed/state reporting formats might contain clues about what is coming next. (things like the universal 1099 stuff happen all the time, generally under the radar).

Danube of Thought

Why does anybody pitch to Pujols?

Melinda Romanoff

But we are a bit of an echo chamber, rse, I do my best to influence the press, but the MFM is not open to dissent.

I taught someone Monday, in a 15 minute car ride, just how broad the real estate crises will impact her brand spanking new, and genuinely ingenious, acute care facilities. I'm going to do my best to work with this genius, but it will have to be done cleverly, for her, and for us. Clear the boards of the pay-to-play carp, and the economy will recover faster than under Reagan. It's there. I've met the owners, in several places.

daddy

Just for fun.

About 3 hours ago came in from Cologne to Milan. We were landing about 1 AM, but the moon was almost full and in the clear night you could see wonderfully well. We arrived from the west heading east.

On such a clear night with the lights off in the cockpit, the lights on the ground beautifully delineate roads and towns. Just prior to the Alps we observed an area of darkness within a surrounded large oval of lights which had to be a lake, and if I knew the geography better over here I could say it was lake Geneva or Como or whatever but please excuse my ignorance---regardless, it was gorgeous. The mountains appeared topped with snow.

Descent into Milan from the west was fun. You are kept quite high because of the Alps, then plummet down steeply as there is precious little going on at 1 AM, and you have freedom to do pretty much what you want at such an hour. We were given an eastbound heading and then allowed to make our own call for a left 180 degree turn back to the Milan airport. Smooth. beautiful, calm conditions. You folks all would have loved it.

Taxi in to the hotel is about 40 minutes, so we had the taxi guy stop at some market place 30 minutes from Milan, and we dashed in and bought a couple bottles of vino for the layover. Our body clocks at 2 am local are still about Martini time back home, so at whatever place we stopped he led us to the wine selection and we picked up Valpolicella. (Tad rougher than the French Merlot last night). Popped the cork in the car and then had to swill to be finito by arrival hotel. My partner this evening mentioned how it is wrong to have to swill wine like beer in order to finish quick, and he was absolutely correct, but what ya' gonna' do at 2 am in Molano. Breaks of Naval Air...

Anyhow, am not a fan of Valpoicello at the moment, but half the 2nd bottle is still over on my nightstand next to me and don't want to say that out loud in order to avoid a hangover tomorrow.

Taxi driver mentioned 3 tourist choices for tomorrow---
1) The Duomo Cathedral
2) Leonardo's "Last Supper"
3) The place where Il Duce was hung with his mistress

As my pop was a WW2 guy who did Anzio and Rome etc, I may do the last of those 3. He would always say to us kids when things were going to hell, "Finito Benito," at which point Momma (Grandma Jane) would always pipe in with schoolmarmish exasperation, "FenitA' Benito, FenitA' Benito. FenitA!!!" as if our mispronouncing "Fenita" in joking about the hanging of that fascist creep we would somehow reveal ourselves to our betters as uncouth Americans. Gad does that make me laugh, but I s'pose you have to have been there or have had a bottle and a half of Valpolicello in ya' to make sense of it.

"Finito Benito!" Ha! Take that Grandma Jane:) Bless your good soul. Ciao.

Clarice

"Please God...let it be someplace with nice beaches and acceptable warbrides"
I second that prayer.

rse

Jane-it's not a joke if you're a relative. It just hurts that someone with that much power has no real guiding compass. Except organizing the community.

If you like books it's always hard to forget the end of All Quiet on the Western Front.

Soylent Red

Pamela des Barres is the girlfriend of the opener (a friend of theirs)

You may want to check his underwear for traces of plaster of paris.

Threadkiller

My dad(wwII vet) always told this joke:

Why did the new Italian Navy build glass bottom boats?

Melinda Romanoff

daddy-

White Sardines. Have them just once for "Primi".

And never ignore the "Funghi".

Threadkiller

So they could see the Old Italian Navy.

henry

Danube, "Pujols". That calls for a Cold refreshing Bud, go Cards!

Soylent Red

To see the old Italian Navy!

Shortest book in history? The Complete Guide to Italian Military Victories.

daddy

BTW,

Here's Il Duomo

Here's Leonardo's "Last Supper"

And here's Il Duce Hanging Upside Down.

Decisions, decisions...Mucho' diffichili!

Clarice

daddy, it was Lake Como, about a 30 minute ride from Milan --or used to be--and one of my favorite spots on earth.

Clarice

BTW it was on the shores of that Lake that finito Benito (and Clarita) took place.

Danube of Thought

I thought it was on a lamppost in a Shell station in Milan. Or were the bodies taken there from the lake shore? I still remember sitting in the theatre with my sister watching the Movietone News film of the bodies dangling upside down.

Watching Glenn Beck on O'Reilly. He reminds me a lot of the John Birchers of fifty years ago, and the book "None Dare Call it Treason."

Clarice

OOps it was ClarETTA Petacci.

Clarice

I believe they were ambushed and killed along the shore and then hung at the Shell station,

Melinda Romanoff

Done.

G'night. I had my heart wrench worked a bit looser today. It goes back up Sunday.

Clarice

Do you know what Mussolin's first job was?

Wealthy Jews hired him to be principal of a Montessori schol they sponsored for the children of the poor.

John Cunningham

BE aware that Holder, back in 2009, bragged about Fast and Furious at an Arms Trafficking conference in Cuernavaca,
http://sadhillnews.com/2011/07/09/eric-holder-bragged-about-operation-gunrunner-in-2009

this kind of torpedoes any BS about hearing of it in 2011, no?

Jane

Daddy,

You have the most interesting job. Can I go to "take your (older than you) daughter to work, day?

Clarice

Jane, you wretched poacher, I made that suggestion years ago.I was willing to go in an air hole punched package marked instruments fragile.

Soylent Red

Wealthy Jews hired him to be principal of a Montessori schol they sponsored for the children of the poor.

I didn't know that, but it makes sense in some ways. Young Mussolini was very idealistic, which is probably what drove him to socialism.

I could see Barry as a grade school principal at some tony private school. Just have to keep him from going out back to smoke a doobie with the utes.

Melinda Romanoff

John-

Do you think you're going to get away with a "seagull" move without expressing other cogent opinions?

That one, alone, is well worth backing up why you know that tidbit.

Cough up.

(Pretty Please!)

Threadkiller

Obama sez:
" Now, having said that, I think none of us are under any illusion that reinstating that ban would be easy. And so, what we've focused on is how we can improve our enforcement of existing laws, because even under current law, trafficking illegal firearms, sending them across a border, is illegal. That's something that we can stop.

And so our focus is to work with Secretary Napolitano, Attorney General Holder, our entire Homeland Security team, ATF, border security, everybody who is involved in this, to coordinate with our counterparts in Mexico to significantly ramp up our enforcement of existing laws. And in fact, I've asked Eric Holder to do a complete review of how our enforcement operations are currently working and make sure that we're cutting down on the loopholes that are resulting in some of these drug trafficking problems."

Calderon sez:
"
One more thing -- one more thing I forgot to mention. One other thing we can do is to track the weapons that we have in Mexico. If we manage to detect weapons sold illegally in the United States in violation of this law on the control of weapons exports, or if, in the United States, they can have -- probably move forward on a good registry of armament or on the prohibition of certain massive sales of weapons, for example, to a hunter or to a common citizen -- we know that these people do not usually buy hundreds of rifles or assault weapons or grenades -- if we can move forward in those areas, I do believe that security both of the United States and Mexico will improve because those weapons are pointing against Mexican people and Mexican officials today.

But crime is not only acting in Mexico. It is also acting in the United States. Organized crime is acting in both countries. And I do hope that those weapons that are sold today in the United States and are being used in Mexico, I hope the day will never come in which they will also be used against the North American society or against U.S. officials, just like they are now being used in Mexico."

How intuitive. When did this conversation occur?

April 16, 2009.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/joint-press-conference-with-president-barack-obama-and-president-felipe-calderon-me


Danube of Thought

Wrong, JohnC: keep your eye on the ball. Having knowledge of Gunrunner (or of Wide Receiver) is not the same as having knowedge of Fast and Furious.

We don't wanna go all Glenn Beck here.

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