For The Cynical And Skeptical Among Us

Back on the contraception front, two stray thoughts vex me.

1.  Did Obama need this fight in order to re-bond with the anti-religious left?  Maybe his evolution on endorsing gay marriage has been deferred until after the election, so he needed to establish his anti-church cred with this.

2.  We write of Missing Persons - in the tick-tock about the decision-making process on the contraception rule and the narrow religious exemption, we hear about Kathleen Sebelius, Melody Barnes, and Valerie Jarrett,all of whom have obvious roles to play based ontheir position in the org chart.

But nowhere do we learn whether a woman who once pulled down $300,000 per year to advise a hospital on public health issues chimed in on this debate.  Given her background, why wouldn't she?  (And does anyone doubt where she would come out?)

Comments

[jimmyk]

daddy, Romney seems to be the one pushing PR statehood:

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2012/01/30/mitt-romney-will-puerto-rican-vote-give-him-florida/

I'm not sure the PRans really want it, as they get lots of perks under the current system that might go away. But it's one of those issues that probably galvanizes people who feel strongly about it.

[RichatUF]

jimmyk-

The Bush Administration used supplementals to fund the wars so the war spending wouldn't get added to the baseline.

NK-

BTW-- since 'Bam was inaugurated, gas prices have DOUBLED. Best part -- 'Bam isn't primarily responsible for this. Bernanke and his QE debased Dollar and prior to that Greenspan's easy money policy are)

I have a searching criticism of this that I need to think about. If gas prices moderated and stabalized during the Greenspan era, how would his debasement be to blame? I remember during the late 90's oil crash filling up my car for about 12 bucks (gas was a ridiculous .79/gal).

[Ranger]

I've heard that claim before, but is there any truth to it? How would he have done that?

Technically true, but intelectually false, as the funding for the wars was done with suplimental spending bills specificly to cover the cost.

So they paid for and included in each year's total spending numbers. This is the way wars should be paid for, as war is a temporary condition, otherwise the increase in Pentagon spending would have become part of the permenant budget baseline. Obama played this game with his first budget, where he included the cost of the second year of the Iraq surge in his actual budget, then claimed huge budget cuts in the future by not funding the surge in following years (after it had ended).

[Clarice]

JiB:

"can the Church file an amicus brief for the ObamaCare opponents with the SCOTUS? If this doesn't get overturned, the whole stinking mess, then as I understand Clarice's point, the Church will have to wait until the regulations are "ripe" which is actually 2 years off for that, right?"

There is no right to file an amicus brief; that is completely up to the discretion of SCOTUS as to whether they will allow it.

These issues may be so different than those before the Ct (and I'd have to and won't review all the filings to see if there is enough communality with one of the cases where the Ct granted cert) that it would reject the effort.

Similarly I'd have to review the exact text of the regs to see if there's some way for the Bishops and others to argue that the regulations have an immediate affect or require immediate action that would get around the ripeness problem. Off hand I seem to remember the churches must file something now in order to get the extension.

In short order we should find out what counsel who gets paid big bucks to do this boring work comes up with.

[daddy]

"Clarice, a great video of the '47 blizzard in Brats&Beer Town."

Hell, I thought it was the view out my front door.

[jimmyk]

Technically true, but intelectually false, as the funding for the wars was done with suplimental spending bills specificly to cover the cost.

Thanks for the clarifications, Ranger and Rich. I knew that once, but the old memory ain't what it was.

So, contrary to the AP's insinuation, Bush was actually doing the opposite of Obama, and being more honest by not adding the war spending to the baseline. Chalk up another black mark for the MSM.

[bgates]

President George W. Bush kept the cost of the wars out of his budgets.

I was going to quote from an email I sent a leftist friend about that talking point, but it turns out I already did.

[Ben Franklin]

"Bush was actually doing the opposite of Obama, and being more honest by not adding the war spending to the baseline."

Yeah, that's it.........hoo boy

[Ranger]

I think this falls under the "what goes around comes around" heading (via Drudge):

Iraqi fighters, arms trickle into war-torn Syria

MOSUL, Iraq - Weapons and Sunni Muslim insurgents are seeping from Iraq into Syria, Iraqi officials and arms dealers say, fueling violence in a country that once sent guns and militants the other way.

Live by the sword as they say...

[Ranger]

Link:

Iraqi fighters, arms trickle into war-torn Syria

Sorry about that...

[narciso]

Yes, ratlines often run in both directions;

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204062704577220991267017900.html

[Clarice]

I'm really surprised that genius Andrew Sullivan hasn't argued that the Iraq and Afghan pullout and the Administration's response to the Arab Spring, was a brilliant strategy by Obama to topple the entire Middle East and get them to murder each other.

[jimmyk]

Excellent flashback, bgates, that might have been the source of my deja vu. You're like Paul Ryan with a sense of humor.

[narciso]

In light of the title of this thread, it's hard not to be either;

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/291039/have-you-heard-about-saudi-journalist-who-faces-potential-death-sentence-under-sharia-

[daddy]

bgates,

Thanks for the link to that previous fun 2010 JOM thread. Great work as always Sir.

Reading it jogged my memory and got me wondering how many cars "disenfranchised French youth's" had burned in Paris on New Years Day in 2012.

In 2009 it was 1,147, and in 2010 it was 1,137, but for some reason I hadn't seen any reports for 2011/2012.

Now I know why---France’s Solution To Burning Cars Problem: Snuff The Story

"The ritual torching of cars has become a New Year’s tradition in France...This year? We’ll never know."

...“the French government is determined to stamp out these scenes of anarchy as part of its highly-publicized campaign against crime,” France24 announced. And that’s what they did, to great effect...France’s Interior Minister Brice Hortefeux instituted a news blackout. The number of torched cars will remain a secret."

Voila! No more problem.

"And it works!...not a single word in the press. Problem solved!"

Makes me wonder if they've got a Media Matters branch over there.

Viva La France!

[NK]

RichardUF-- this is a PS to a longer post about Greenspan and gas prices. Coupled with Greenspan's loose money starting in 2002, gas prices also increased because of speculation over Iraq disruptions with the build up to Iraqi Freedom. With the quick end of major combat operations and Iraq oil production returning to international markets, that speculation ended by the end of 2003, but Oil/Barrell continued to rise in Dollar terms. That was a result of the Dollar losing value on along term basis.

[narciso]

And Ace is being 'that guy' from PCU;

http://minx.cc/?post=326692

[narciso]

Well Yergin in the Quest, tracks down the various strains, from the BEND hijinks in
the Nigerian DElta, strife in Caracas, after 2003, and Iraq.

[Jim,MtnViewCA,USA]

"Finance ministers had not received assurances from leaders of Greek political parties on a programme of proposed cuts, Mr Juncker was quoted as saying by Reuters news agency."
It's as if the northern Euros have decided to jettison Greece, but need to finish up preparations....in the meantime, they make soothing noises and profess undying devotion.

[Jane]

Around here the AG is the person who punishes 501(c)(3) 's. They are particularly hard on garden clubs and organizations run by republicans, even if there is nothing political about the entity. I'm sure Eric Holder will be all over the Media Matters thing any minute now.

[narciso]

That would be Marvelous Martha, wouldn't it,
Jane.

[NK]

RichardUF-- I somehow fouled up my posting about greenspan and oil prices. Greenspan was Chairman 8/87-1/06/ 1987-2001 he ran a prudent monetary/rate policy. In 2002 (post tech bubble stock crash and 9/11 ) he and the FOMC were alarmed by deflation and liquidity trap. He started referring to the Fed as "printing press" and ZIRP was born. 2003 we started to see Dollar depreciation and commodity/asset increases. The Stock market and Housing prices went up (good) commodities especially Oil (in Dollar Terms) skyrocketed (Bad). QE/QEII really debased the Dollar, and accelerated the fuel/food inflation cycle. But Ben Bernanke keeps saying inflation is "well contained" -- he must walk to work and eat in the Fed's subsidized cafeteria,

[daddy]

Valentine's Day Quiz:

Queen O' Sheba's measurements?

1) 35 D
2) 1.618 The Divine Proportion
3) 36 C
4) A Fibonacci series.

Answer after the dog walk.

[NK]

Jim, MtnView-- I agree with you. I think the Euro -Weenies have figured out how to bailout their French/German banks when Greece defaults, and they'll shove Greece into the hands of the IMF. Hello Drachma.

[RichatUF]

NK-link missing?

1. Greenspan rampped down, then up the FFR sending the yield curve negative at least twice from 2005-2006 (I'll have to check the dates).

2. Iraqi oil production from 1995-2002 (the period of oil-for-food) was an insignificant portion of global total oil production and their is little evidence that the Iraq War contributed to the oil price spike (although this is a favorite Stiglitz "3 Trillion Dollar War" talking point).

3. The dollar strengthened from 2004-2007 against most currencies and it has only been recently (within the last year in so that the bottom fell out against the dollar/yen cross which is crushing Japanese exporters).

[Dave (in MA)]

With all the bleep going on right now, CBS decided to open its Evening "News" program with a report on how Obama's approval ratings are up.

[rse]

LUN is an article about the upcoming Rio+20 summit and a certain get together to plan it.

It checks out with what I know is going on as you might gather from the oblique reference to ed.

Of course if you ever hear my brakes failed, don't believe it. Turns out the Agenda 21 summit was in Rio because it was already an acronym the schemers were using.

The parasites are killing the hosts is not a bad theme.

[scott]

E=nε n=1,2,3,4

[pagar]

Didn't really bother many when they came for the rabbit raisers. A lot of people remember their parents milking cows, but not so many actually do it today. So when the EPA puts the milk producers out of business; oh well, at least they aren't attacking us.

NOW

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/its-come-to-this-epa-now-says-building-sandcastles-is-hazardous-to-your-health/

9 chances of of 10,IMO, the Govt employee who retires after years of kicking in your kid's sand castles because the EPA says they are hazardous to your health, will retire at a higher pay grade than the US military member who spent his career fighting in far off lands like Afghanistan to protect America.

[MarkO]

What if we were to declare Obama to be hazardous to our health?

[DrJ]

pagar,

You've never read the Materials Safety Data Sheet that comes with beach sand. I'll see if I can find one -- you'd think that it was going to kill you.

[Gmax]

Those sand crabs can be be natural born killers...

[Ignatz]

--Yeah Matt,

but did you see in the pic who they had playing Queen Of Sheba?

Gina Lollobrigida!--

I always thought she was about the best looking gal in pictures.

[Jane]

Yup Narcisco, you got that right.

[DrJ]

From the Acros Sea Sand MSDS:

Section 3 - Hazards Identification EMERGENCY OVERVIEW Caution! May cause respiratory tract irritation. Cancer suspect agent. Chronic inhalation of crystalline silica may lead to fibrotic lung disease, silicosis or cancer. May cause mechanical eye irritation. Target Organs: Lungs, respiratory system, eyes.

and later

Section 4 - First Aid Measures Eyes: Flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes, occasionally lifting the upper and lower eyelids. If irritation develops, get medical aid. Skin: Flush skin with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes while removing contaminated clothing and shoes. Get medical aid if irritation develops or persists. If swallowed, do not induce vomiting unless directed to do so by medical personnel. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Get medical aid. Inhalation: If inhaled, remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. Get medical aid.

[NK]

Richard UF-- In Response

1. Greenspan dis ramp up SHORT TERM rates in 2005 to pop the housing bubble, but he had alread thrown into doubt long term value of the Dollar 2002-2004;

2. I agree, the Iraq production was on the margins, BUT the 2002-2003 run up from $18/Barrell to $32/Barrrell was a risk premium due to uncertainty of war and effect on Gulf production generally;

3. Not against the Euro-- the Dollar deflated 50% against the Euro 2000-2008 - FIFTY PERCENT! that was the long-term depreciation of the Dollar that led to rampant going long on commodities in Dollar value, and started the Gold Bug mania. There was a chance in 2009 to stabilize the Dollar and commodity prices in Dollar terms, alas 'Bam's stimulus! and Bernanke's QE/QEII sealed our fate.

[Cecil Turner]

It's an article of faith on the left that Bush managed to hide the costs of the war from the CBO. Like this "analysis" trying to debunk the famous deficit graph::

Take 2005 for instance. If you include just the excluded cost at the time for the Iraq War the REAL deficit figure for fiscal 2005 would be $427 billion* not the $317 billion the CBO used in it’s figures.

Of course, if you go to the actual spending figures for 2005, that 110 billion that is supposedly missing shows up nicely in red . . . it's already there.
(Because those are actual figures, not budgeted.)

[Cecil Turner]

It makes a great talking point, however. And when Obama decided to add it into the budget in 2010, except for a little surge action supplemental, he got kudos from the usual suspects:

The final ruling is a bit tricky. Obama never actually advocated getting rid of supplementals completely. His promise was to end their abuse, and his criticism centered on using them for year-to-year funding. The 2009 supplemental was an inevitable result of the budget process, and this year's supplemental pays for the 30,000 troop-surge that Obama announced after the 2010 budget had already been submitted. Most important, funding for Iraq and Afghanistan is now included in annual budgets. We'll keep a close eye on this one going forward, but for now, this is a Promise Kept.

Which is fine. But then he decided to draw down the war on schedule, and reported it as a budget cut :

Republicans also protest that President Obama is “saving” nearly $1 trillion by not spending over the coming decade what the United States has spent each year on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. True, a Republican administration may have unwound those wars more slowly than the Obama administration has, but Republican budget writers say that no one believes combat costs would have stayed steady over the next 10 years. Therefore, counting savings is misleading, Republicans say, since the savings come from money that would never have been spent.

Because once you add that 100 billion to the budget, when you take it out it looks like savings.

Bottom line is that it probably would've been more honest for President Bush to've included it in the budget, and for President Obama to've left it out (because it was part of the long term expected expenditures in the early oughts, and today it's rapidly being phased out). But in either case, it only takes a couple of seconds to check how they're accounting for it.

[narciso]

Of course, they sampled the group that follow
CBS and the New York Times almost exclusively, so it's a case of GIGO, in my view, before you consider the adults and the lop sided Dem weighting in that poll.

[narciso]

The folks at Hunt the SkyDragon, seem to think they have something, I'd say it's mostly gas, note how they can't challenge
the science;

http://www.desmogblog.com/heartland-institute-exposed-internal-documents-unmask-heart-climate-denial-machine

[narciso]

And people say, he doesn't keep his promises, well only certain ones;

http://freebeacon.com/nuking-our-nukes/

[matt]

listening to NPR on the way from a meeting this afternoon was a painful experience. First we had that noted intellectual Barbara Boxer mocking the Republicans for attaching limits on contraception in the transportation bill by insisting that Highway Patrolmen might have pull violators over.

Then we got an earful about Obama's great victory on the payroll tax holiday/Republican fold and how the economy is getting better and Obama's chances are looking so much better and his approval rate is 50% and rising.

The cheerleading never stops.

[Frau Waffenschein]

"I always thought she was about the best looking gal in pictures."

Lollo was a serious photographer, also.

[narciso]

I think this qualifies as the Protocols of the Elders of Brigham Young,

http://harpers.org/archive/2011/10/0083637

It's the sort of 'retromingent' analysis, typical of the publication that gave us Laphamization

[Danube of Thought]

I am always encouraged to read the optimistic posts taking it for granted that Obama is toast. But I would think that if that were so, at least one of his potential challengers would be polling ahead of him. None is. None is within five points of him.

His RCP average is now in positive territory, with very close to 50% approval. I just don't see the signs that point to his losing.

[Gmax]

Bill Donohoe head of the Catholic League was on Lou Dobbs a bit of ago and he was breathing fire. He was crowing about a poll that showed Catholics support for the adminstration had dropped to 39% and was falling he claimed. He said that the preaching from the pulpit on the issue would continue.

They are going to write books about this idiotic decision of Zero. Its going to get him beat and a lot of his buddies too.

[narciso]

Yes, this always happens at the beginning of the year, then some circumstance, Fukushima,
the wonderful Arab Spring induced gasoline
bottleneck brings it back to Earth,

[Gmax]

Matt

NPR? For what purpose ? unintentional humor?

[Frau Waffenschein]

LUN Lollo's 50 years work beyond what she did with the gifts Mother Nature gave her.

[Frau Waffenschein]

Gmax, I wish I could believe that the muddle will remember anything about this when the walking around money and projects start flowing.

[Gmax]

Frau

Its simple. 52% at the peak, you only have to see 3% erosion. Its 6 to 8% right now.

Polling 101 :

You can not poll head to head until the head to head is determined.

Go search for a Jay Cost article which explains that incumbents always underperform their approval ratings, sometimes a little but sometimes a lot.

8.3% unemployment and $4 gasoline. He is toast despite the gloom and doomers.

Get out your wallet, and get out and volunteer and fight for real permanent change.

[Frau Fotoalbum]

daddy - LUN # 2 with actual photographs.

[Frau Fotoalbum]

Using my best Maxwell Smart voice,
"Would you believe #3?"

[Ranger]

I would also argue that a big part of Obama's higher approval numbers relate to how high the market is right now. I don't see how WS continues to resist gravity once the full impact of current trends hits.

[maryrose]

Danube and Frau:
Please don't be discouraged. Remember it is the MSM and NPR's job and mission to even lie to make Obummer look good. These polls are flawed just like the unemployment numbers. Axelrod has gotten a sneak peek at Obama's numbers{ Real ones} and is petrified that Obammy is going to lose the following states Ohio, Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Indiana Virginia and yes dare I say it Pennsylvania. This surge by Santorum and not ringer Gingrich has them terrified. They will lie, cheat and steal to portray him as a winner.Obama is going to lose big time and this religious freedonm issue is the icing on the cake.

[Porchlight]

I never thought Gina held a candle to Sophia as far as Italian beauties go.

And Ingrid is the most beautiful of all time. IIRC Katharine right behind. Then Elizabeth - but she doesn't have the intelligence of the first two.

I have conventional tastes, 'tis true. For underrated hotties - I go with Deborah Kerr and Gene Tierney.

[Gmax]

And Wisconsin, and Iowa and Colorado and Nevada and maybe New Mexico and Oregon.

Hide and watch.

Think of it this way, you can work to make it happen and feel like you left something of worth to your offspring, or you can set in dark and curse the darkness.

[Ignatz]

--And Ingrid is the most beautiful of all time. IIRC Katharine right behind.--

Funny how different tastes can run. They both left me pretty cold.
As far as underrated I'd have to put Joan Fontaine at the top.
About a tie at the top with Gina I'd put Greer Garson.
Sophia always struck me as a wonderful present were she to find her way into ones sleeping quarters and strikingly gorgeous, but in a pretty unconventional way.

[Clarice]

I vote with Porch. Ingrid, then Katherine, then Elizabeth, then Audrey.

All the men I ever dated though adored Jean Simmons.

[Pops]

The real Barack Obama, claws and all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUkbuhXzbvI

[Porchlight]

Axelrod has gotten a sneak peek at Obama's numbers{ Real ones} and is petrified that Obammy is going to lose the following states Ohio, Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Indiana Virginia and yes dare I say it Pennsylvania.

I agree, maryrose, all but MI and PA in this list are certain and they are both within reach.

[Porchlight]

I love Joan Fontain, Ignatz. I shouldn't have forgotten her. Rebecca is my all-time favorite movie since I first saw it at age 11.

[Porchlight]

Fontaine not Fontain. I don't know what's wrong with me. Must be the cabernet.

Joan's sister was pretty good looking, too, in her day. And Merle Oberon. And Ginger Rogers. I could go on and on...

[maryrose]

My dad loved Jeanne Crain and her role in My Little Margie is a classic. As for me Liz, Bette Davis{for acting} Ingrid,Dorothy McGuire,Lauren Bacall, Jean Simmons, Scarlett OHara I'm brain-freezed on her real name , oh yeah Vivan Leigh.

[Clarice]

Susan Hayworth. (My mom looked like her in her younger days)..Oh, yes, Lauren Bacall ...Hedy Lamarr was beautiful and brilliant. Leslie Caron was adorable..Doris day was so wholesome looking ..

[Porchlight]

Jeanne Crain was so cute in State Fair. I forgot Davis, Bacall, Simmons, and Leigh. Donna Reed, too.

These modern actresses are nothing. Scarlett Johansen? Give me a break. They need $20K worth of styling before they can look half decent for a photo shoot.

[Rick Ballard]

"I just don't see the signs that point to his losing."

You're not looking in the right place.

He's ahead of GHWB, tied with Ford, below Carter and Gallup should be using LBJ's '68 percentage of 41% rather than the '64 percentage of 76%. That would put him in the middle of the loser/quitter group.

Toast.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

Vivan Leigh and Hedy Lamarr were gorgeous women. Hedy's German nude scene as a teenager made tongues wag. She was also quite a brilliant inventor having a 1942 patent for technology which is the basis for cordless and wireless telephones and bluetooth.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

I think Joan Fontaine's sister was Olivia de Havilland. They hated each other after Joan won an Oscar before Olivia did.

[Danube of Thought]

Gmax, if the Cost article is the one I'm thinking of, it concerned only house races, and only in off-year elections. I believe it's true that no incumbent president with an approval rating over 47% has ever failed to be re-elected.

I am most eager to be shown wrong on either or both of these points, and would appreciate it if someone would come up with something to the contrary.

I'd also be interested to see support for the idea that head-to-head means nothing until the challenger has been identified. I believe the Reagan experience in 1980 is consistent with that premise, but am unsure of any other instances. Dole '96? Kerry '04?

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

Had I refreshed, I would have seen Clarice's comment. I didn't copy, honest. Holster those pistols.

[Jane]

Liz Cheney, who I love is sitting in for Hannity.

[Porchlight]

Leslie Caron...if anyone gets a chance to see a film called The L-Shaped Room, do. Jean Arthur, Veronica Lake, Eve Arden, Lucille Ball, Lee Remick...heck, getting into the modern era, Ellen Burstyn and Diane Ladd are both aces.

[Clarice]

The old studio heads sure picked women who had beautiful faces to go with beautiful bodies, didn't they..None of this cookie cutter stuff. Look at Cameron Diaz or Julia Roberts. without all that makeup and styling do you think their faces are something special? I don't.

Streep is a fabulous actress but she's nothing special to look at.

Hally Berry is a knockout which reminds me of the gorgeous black actresses of yore like Dorothy Dandridge,

[Clarice]

Lena Horne and I'm outta here.

[centralcal]

I have fallen way behind now that tax season is underway, but I agree with all of your beautiful actresses of yesteryear. I agree, too, with Clarice about all the make-up and styling tricks utilized today, alas.

Jane, honey, ain't it great to have Liz Cheney sitting in for Sean Hannity! Woo Hoo!

[Gmax]

Dont guess DOT, go look it up. Real Clear Politics archives all of Cost's very wise missives.

[jimmyk]

I think Joan Fontaine's sister was Olivia de Havilland.

And, much to my surprise, both still alive in their mid-90s. And I found this interesting about Olivia: She was a politically active liberal, but anti-Communist, and

In 1946, determined to protect liberalism from infiltration by communists, she provoked a highly-publicized row: concerned about reports of Stalinist atrocities, de Havilland removed pro-Communist material from speeches prepared for her by the Independent Citizens' Committee of the Arts, Sciences and Professions, a group later identified as a communist front organization. De Havilland became concerned that the liberal membership of the Independent CItizens' Committee was being manipulated by a small group of communists in leadership positions and that their pro-Soviet statements were damaging the election chances of the Democrats in the 1946 mid-term elections. She organized a fight to regain control of the committee and, upon their failure she resigned, triggering a wave of resignations from other Hollywood figures, including her own star-recruit to the reform camp, Ronald Reagan.

[Caro]

Two words. Grace. Kelly.

[Danube of Thought]

I've always thought Julia Roberts was borderline homely, in addition to being sensationally dumb.

When I was a little kid I was nuts about Veronica Lake, with the blonde hair always obscuring one eye. Lana Turner...Rita Hayworth...Susan Hayward...

Back in the early 60's my brother danced with Rita Hayworth in the Subic Bay Officers Club. I am consumed with jealousy to this day.

[jimmyk]

[sorry, that quote was from Wiki]

[Porchlight]

Good for Olivia, jimmyk. That era in history is forever confused in the popular mind, I'm afraid, but it's encouraging that players at the time recognized the stakes.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

They made 'em tough back then, jimmy. They both have to be around 90.

I remember seeing The Wake of the Red Witch when I was about seven or eight. I thought Gail Russell was the most beautiful creature I had ever seen. Sadly, she died in her thirties from alcoholism. Nonetheless her pictures make it pretty clear I had good taste as a youngster.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

Bingo, Caro.

[Porchlight]

Rita Hayworth had it all - looks, talent, smarts. Lana Turner wasn't too bright, but she could act. Imitation of Life is a fantastic film.

I love Jane Wyman's face, too. Like a Persian cat.

[Barbara]

Ava Gardner was also quite beautiful.

[Ignatz]

--I've always thought Julia Roberts was borderline homely, in addition to being sensationally dumb.--

I've always figured Eric Roberts had a happy childhood with his brother Julian, until Julian figured out he'd have quite an acting career with the addition of a big red wig and some estrogen treatments.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

DOT:

Veronica Lake's daughter dated one of my fraternity brothers (or vice versa) in the late 50s. She had a walkup apt in the Village and threw a party one Saturday. A bunch of us were invited and spent two days and nights at her apartment. Adult beverages were consumed, but thankfully, it was before pot was in style. Veronica was not present. We thought she was old but she was only 38. She was 19 when her daughter was born. She died when she was 51. Her mom, who died at 90 said Veronica was diagnosed a Schizophrenic when she was in her early teens.

[Gmax]

Well it turns out the article I was thinking of was not a RCP article but one that ran in the Weekly Standard. So here is the link:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/morning-jay-fundamentals-do-not-favor-obamas-reelection_577621.html

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

Ava was a "tough broad" and damn near did in the Chairman of the Board. Rita started as a dancer with her father's dance troupe. Sadly, she died of Alzheimer's disease when she was quite young.

[Melinda Romanoff]

My favorite Old School actress?

Greer Garson.

Hands down.

[Ignatz]

This Deroy Murdock classic on the febrile imbecile Holder was probably already linked and I just missed it. A classic.

A bunch of racists at the Justice Department expect blacks, and everybody else, to show picture ID. Justice’s website repeatedly states: “Photo ID is required to clear security at all locations.” As Jeff Aronson observed in the New York Post: “Before a citizen can enter the US Department of Justice’s office to complain about the need to produce a photo ID before voting, that citizen will need to produce a photo ID to gain entry.”

[Ignatz]

--My favorite Old School actress?

Greer Garson.

Hands down.--

Ditto.

[(Another) Barbara]

I vote with Porch. Ingrid, then Katherine, then Elizabeth, then Audrey.

Which Katherine?

Greer Garson? Yes, she was lovely but, gosh, we're getting to sound a little bit elderly here.

I've always thought Julia Roberts was borderline homely,

Probably. But homely is sometimes beautiful, in its own way. I recall when Time magazine (IIRC) did a cover story on Sophia Loren and began it with something like: "Her forehead is too low, her nose is too long, her mouth is too big and Mama Mia! is she gorgeous!

[Danube of Thought]

Gmax, thanks for the link to the Cost article. Note that it was based on the numbers from seven months ago, and the changes in the circumstances since then all seem to have favored Obama.

[narciso]

This thread doesn't really work without illustrations, I can't say I disagree with any of the choices, like the last;

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1797828608/nm0002093

[Melinda Romanoff]

(A)B-

I believe the theme was favorites, with no time line limits.

[Danube of Thought]

I couldn't find anything in the Cost article suggesting that incumbent presidents always underperform their approval numbers.

[(Another) Barbara]

believe the theme was favorites, with no time line limits

Yes, I understood, of course. And maybe Netflix, which I've never used, has changed everything. I just thought that youngsters like the JOMers I've met, would be too young to recall Greer Garson movies.

The first movie I recall seeing -- taken to it by my parents -- was The Bridge of San Luis Rey. Just looked it up and saw it was released in 1944, when my age was still expressed in a single digit. It affected me for years and, to this day, I don't like to walk across a bridge.

[Rick Ballard]

DoT,

Per Gallup, Nixon outperformed his February percentage in '72, Ford did in '76 (by 1% and still lost) and Reagan did in '84. The Democrat losers did not. It's as good an example of Gallup loading the dice for Dems as anything I've seen but under performance against February percentages is the rule rather than the exception.