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February 28, 2012

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Comments

MarkO

Primero.

JeffC

whole real foods like lean protein (chicken or fish), veggies, nuts, seeds, beans and whole grains can make you fat as well ...

self control of serving size and the amount exercise you do are the 2 things the government can never control ...

Note to the government, Quit trying to help by reducing my choices ... spend your time/money and energy publishing educational materials and information ...

MarkO

Oh, JeffC, are you sure about this?

"self control of serving size and the amount exercise you do are the 2 things the government can never control ..."

(Another) Barbara

... spend your time/money and energy publishing educational materials and information ...

Ixnay to that, too. Recall the educational materials and information they've published and promoted the past several decades, the stuff that's turned us into a nation of buffalo-sized indivduals.

Charlie (Colorado)

whole real foods like lean protein (chicken or fish), veggies, nuts, seeds, beans and whole grains can make you fat as well ...

No, actually Jeff, there's not a lot of science to support this, at least if you're saying they can be a root cause. And there's a lot of good evidence that portion control and the old "push away from the table" approach aren't successful long ter,.

Frau Weltall

"buffalo-sized individuals"
An apt description, (A)B. It's like being surrounded by flubbery characters from a heavy gravity planet in a SF story.

cathyf

I wonder how many extra eating disorder deaths will come about from the FLOTUS's food/exercise harangue fetish? (The death rate from anorexia/bulemia is the highest of any mental illness.)

clarice feldman

This hurts his credibility with me:
" Get clean and green. Environmental toxins also contribute to diabesity. Filter your water, look for green cleaning products, and avoid plastics when you can."

B.S. on cleaning products that don't clean.
Use peroxide and vinegar when you can but don't imagine for a second that this will get your quarters clean or prevent diabetes.

Reducing stree will help everyone stay healthy though.

clarice feldman

*streSS* (DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Janet

I wonder how many extra eating disorder deaths will come about from the FLOTUS's food/exercise harangue fetish? (The death rate from anorexia/bulemia is the highest of any mental illness.)

That's about where I am with the health craze. Like so many other things it has been taken over by the hard core believers. It is like people find a hobby or interest & then feel like they have to force it on everyone..."You should ___" starts their every sentence. It becomes their religion.

Porchlight

No, actually Jeff, there's not a lot of science to support this, at least if you're saying they can be a root cause.

I think the point is that if you eat four pounds of chicken per day, it doesn't matter how lean it is, you're going to have a hard time losing weight. Nuts and seeds are high-calorie and should be moderated. Just about anything can make you fat if you eat too much of it.

Portion control is obviously a huge factor. To paraphrase Reagan, it's not always easy, but it's simple.

Kevin B

I'm gonna laugh my socks of if, (when?) the obesity, (sorry, diabesity), epidemic turns out to actually be an epidemic.

i.e. Caused by a bacterial or viral vector rather than 'junk' food or sugar or transfats or whatever the bete noir of the chattering classes is today.

The new growth industry, (sorry), is finding out how much of our metabolism depends on our symbiotes. We harbor an awful lot of, (mostly helpful), bacteria as well as some sometimes useful other types of critter, but when these get out of balance they can harm us as well.

The whole nutrition industry has repeatedly shown during my lifetime that it is only marginally more science based than the CAGW industry, and it also shows increasing signs of being at least as prescriptive, (and proscriptive).

cathyf

Interesting WSJ article (not sure if it's behind the paywall) Why Doctors Die Differently

It's not something that we like to talk about, but doctors die, too. What's unusual about them is not how much treatment they get compared with most Americans, but how little. They know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they generally have access to any sort of medical care that they could want. But they tend to go serenely and gently.
A couple of months ago I posted this link to a US Catholic article Internal medicine: End of life ethics with Dr. Daniel Sulmasy, O.F.M. and commented that one of the reasons that I want to be in a Catholic hospital is that the Catholic Church is an organization which simultaneously runs pro-life offices and hospices. I am a lot more confident that if the Catholics in charge (who are ultimately under the authority of the local bishop) recommend that I stop treatment because it's hopeless, that it really is hopeless, not just some ploy to save money for the government.

So, after that long preamble... How many people think that the contraception/abortifacient mandate is a long-war tactic to remove the authority of the bishops over hospitals and hospices, so that the death panels can function inside of them?

Charlie (Colorado)

I think the point is that if you eat four pounds of chicken per day, it doesn't matter how lean it is, you're going to have a hard time losing weight.

Except for the part about this not being true, you'd have a point. There's plenty of experience with high-protein diets that shows pretty much the opposite (plus, people on high-protein diets would generally have to be force-fed to keep up with 4 lbs of chicken a day.)

Charlie (Colorado)

Apparently the word "d*et" sets off the spam filter.

(Another) Barbara

Few of us know a dang thing about human metabolism but we all know what constitutes a health-promoting diet. Just ask us.

You don't eat "healthy" whole grains, do you Chaco?

Barbara
Portion control is obviously a huge factor. To paraphrase Reagan, it's not always easy, but it's simple.

Porchlight,

Absolutely! It is a little difficult at the beginning to adjust to smaller portions, but after a few days it does become quite easy. Follow the eating principles listed by TM above, and this can become a comfortable, satisfying way to workable, healthy diet.

One other important thing to consider is medication that you may be taking - both prescribed and over the counter. Discuss this with your physician, and determine if you can eliminate some medications or replace them with others that will not cause you to put on the pounds.

Barbara

a comfortable, satisfying way to a workable, healthy diet.

("Articles! Use the articles.")

jimmyk

I think the point is that if you eat four pounds of chicken per day, it doesn't matter how lean it is, you're going to have a hard time losing weight.

Echoing Chaco at 3:09, the point is that very few people are ever inclined to eat four pounds of chicken per day, whereas it's relatively easy to gorge on carbs and empty calories. Making sure you get the 2,000 calories or so worth of meat and vegetables helps to fill you up and minimize the junk.

jeanne

4 lbs of chicken? eating that much protein every day would be very hard on your kidneys. The Taubes and Atkins people would have you eat primarily saturated fats instead.

It's pretty hard to accept after all the lowfat propaganda.

Ignatz

--*streSS* (DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)--

There's message there of some sort, clarice.

--the point is that very few people are ever inclined to eat four pounds of chicken per day--

Speak for yourself, dude.

(Another) Barbara

Echoing Chaco at 3:09, the point is that very few people are ever inclined to eat four pounds of chicken per day, whereas it's relatively easy to gorge on carbs and empty calories.

True, Jimmyk. One probably would lose weight on four pounds of chicken daily (if that were one's entire intake), since it's all fat and protein, no carbohydrates. As long as you ate the whole chicken -- offal too -- you'd likely enjoy better health than most of your fellows as well. For dining pleasure, however, I would not recommend it.

clarice feldman

There's something to what Kevin says, too. Friends who've moved here from elsewhere note that they eat less than they did before immigrating and still gain weight. And yes, that more elsewhere includes lots of sugar.Moreover, they didn't exe4rcise there at all.

Acientists are just acknowledging that heart problems may be more related to low grade infections--often from inadequate dental care--then any of the other carp they believed in. And migraines--which they were so sure came from rigid personality--are now rather accepted to be a hormonal issue.

Medicine is (often)to science--except for surgical techniques-- what phlogiston was to science not so long ago.

cathyf

Nah, surgery has a pretty large voodoo component, too.

lyle

Me? I just fill myself everyday with the goodness and benevolence of our leader and his saintly spouse. Thus I am sated.

centralcal

I can attest to the migraine/hormone connection, Clarice. Starting in my early 20's I suffered frequent, horrible migraines (nausea, blurred vision, numbness on one side of the body, followed by a one-sided headache). After several years of trying to find the "trigger," unsuccessfully, my doctor suggested low dose birth control pills. The migraines receded to only one or two episodes per year and at the onset of menopause, I eliminated the pills.

Jack is Back!

I have switched to coconut oil from olive oil for sauteeing and I am impressed. Also, am using a very special "real" sea salt and have switched from beef to buffalo for burgers, chili and stroganoffs.

Snacking on raw nuts unsalted and lots of fruits and crudite.

Even gone so far as to use Almond and Cashew butter as subs for Peanut butter.

We don't have a great bakery around here and I love Oatmeal break so I found it at the local Poor Richards store and it is great. Especially toasted and served with local honey.

Also, have started to use stevia instead of sugar.

Eat lots of fish and stay off the rice, taters and fried stuff.

Got a Health Master mixer for the B'Day and am using it a lot especially for smoothies in the mornming and home-made soups. Makes great pizza dough also.

jimmyk

Speak for yourself, dude.

Hmm, I had you pegged for more of a red meat guy. There's the internet for you.

I also believe there's something to the paleo/primal crowd's claim that fat is healthy (within reason). Now if I could just find someone to say that chocolate is really good for you, I'd be set.

AliceH

lyle@4:28 -- I'll have what you're having.

Frau Hospiz

cathyf - thanks so much for posting the article again. (@3:02)

NK

JiB-- sounds like a great food plan you got there-- abdominal fat shaould fall off of you. Just keep the total calories down.

JimmyK-- chocolate is great for people--- the processed sugar that gets mixed in is the problem.

jimmyk

I have switched to coconut oil from olive oil for sauteeing and I am impressed.

Doesn't everything end up tasting like coconut (NTTAWTT)? That's what I've found.

Jack is Back!

jimmyk,

My wife the Belgian says, "who thinks chocolate is not good for you, who?"

Is that good enough?

clarice feldman

cc, I used to tell that(my migraines are hormone related) to my doctors and they didn't believe me.
Now many doctors suggest that migraine sufferers make certain dietary changes at the times when they are going thru these hormone shifts.

Medicine--especially nutritional medicine--is hardly scientific. How can if be? Are we going to lock people in cells and measure exactly their food intake? If we don't it's largely self reported and , if not faked, perhaps a product of lots of factors, some of which we may not even have considered.

NK

Question for the JOM community-- what scientific data exists regarding weight gain and diminishing cigarette smoking? filthy habit cigarette smoking-- one terrible effect is ruinig the taste of food-- does that also supress appetite? Any info on this?

centralcal

Thread hopping . . .

Breaking News ‏ @BreakingNews
GOP US Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine will not seek reelection

A Casual Observation

Apparently Dr. Hyman is exploiting good, old fashioned common sense to sell a book. That's to what we've come.

Jane

I wonder how many extra eating disorder deaths will come about from the FLOTUS's food/exercise harangue fetish?

AMy's 9 year old told me she will not be voting for Obama in November at elementary school because if Michelle's pathetic encroachment into the school system.

She also told me next week if the fitness test where the Obama's demand that all 4th, 5th and 6th graders are tested to determine who is the most fit, and if you win you get a trophy signed by the president.

How much do you think that will cost?

cathyf

Nah, Jane, the President's Physical Fitness nonsense has been going on since I was in junior high (long ago when dinosaurs walked the earth.) Ahnahld was the national chairman for awhile, maybe 20 years ago.

Bi-partisan stupidity...

A Casual Observation

Her royal highness, the ultimate welfare queen is gloating.

Jack is Back!

OT: I've caught the Five a number of times and Red Eye a few times and I think Greg Gutfeld is the sharpest political and culturist satirist since Mort Sahl. Maher is a unrepentant bigot who thinks his schtick is funny but is really political bullshit.

Gutfeld has a way of turning the CW into something not only to thing about but giggle while your doing it. He even makes Beckel laugh:)

Sandy Daze

Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called "wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk."

Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.

Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or... hot fudge?

Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy... precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.

~~~~

Ever watch one of the old movies--older than Sleeper (1973)--say, Mr Roberts or something else? Almost everyone is slim and trim.

Someone else commented about foodstamps being used to buy chips and beer and crabmeat. I don't know too much about too many things, but ISTM that if you eat less and exercise more, you typically will lose weight if you've got too much around the middle.

Yeah, dark chocolate is now good for you. Just like fashion, if your diet is out of style, wait a decade or two and it will come back into style.

cathyf @1502 - How many people think that the contraception/abortifacient mandate is a long-war tactic to remove the authority of the bishops over hospitals and hospices, so that the death panels can function inside of them?

You think??!! No long war about it. This is the war here and now. Of course you've heard of Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel ?

OMG~ABO,
Sandy

Ben Franklin

Avoid using the microwave oven for anything except sterilizing the kitchen sponge.

Those freeeeeeee-radicals will get ya !

clarice feldman

Tobacco never made food taste bad to me. Like most people I did gain weight when I stopped smoking. It wasn't that food tasted better or even that I substantially upped my intake. I think it dropped my metabolism even lower than what it had been before.

marlene barresi

I'm very nervous about my "first post" at JOM,which I've been reading for quite some time.The camaraderie of all the regular posters makes this a very special place. The decision of Senator Snowe not to run for re-election is a political shocker here in Maine.
Maine(ly) Lurking

Melinda Romanoff

Welcome Marlene!

How's things down east?

clarice feldman

Hi, Marlene. welcome.
Do you have any idea who might run for her position?

Jane

Hi Malene, so happy you delurked. Why do you think Snowe made that decision? I figure a whole bunch of them know they ruined the country and don't want to be in office when we go over the cliff.

Jane

Oh gee, I spelled your name wrong MaRlene. I'm sorry.

centralcal

Welcome Marlene! So glad you came in from lurking :) And, from Maine, too!

Ben Franklin

This is so sweet, I may end up in a diabetic coma...


http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2012/02/how-good-are-the-upper-classes.html

"Seven studies using experimental and naturalistic methods reveal that upper-class individuals behave more unethically than lower-class individuals. In studies 1 and 2, upper-class individuals were more likely to break the law while driving, relative to lower-class individuals. In follow-up laboratory studies, upper-class individuals were more likely to exhibit unethical decision-making tendencies (study 3), take valued goods from others (study 4), lie in a negotiation (study 5), cheat to increase their chances of winning a prize (study 6), and endorse unethical behavior at work (study 7) than were lower-class individuals. Mediator and moderator data demonstrated that upper-class individuals’ unethical tendencies are accounted for, in part, by their more favorable attitudes toward greed."

marlene barresi

Everyone in Maine politics is baffled by her decision.The two House Democrats (Pingree and Michaud) are potential candidates. The filing deadline is in March,which makes her "sudden" decision all the more baffling. Thanks for the welcome everyone!

centralcal

Hhhmmm - this guy from Maine (who once worked for Susan Collins) says there might be something fishy going on:

There is very obviously something going on here behind the scenes, since Senator Snowe was so aggressively campaigning for re-election, and in full campaign mode for the last year. Decisions like this – being so very much running (and winning) to very much not – do not happen this abruptly in politics. Ever.
Ben Franklin

When you think about the proposition, it makes some common sense.

It follows that the most ruthless, unprincipled sociopaths would rise to the top of the pyramid, when competing with persons who have an ethical core.

clarice feldman

When you think about this,it looks like the kind fo social studies carp sandwich one expects to see these days.

Jack is Back!

Welcome Marlene,

Love Maine. If you lurk here you must know something about your local politics. Give us your best bet who is going to run.

PaulL

I gave up red meat two months ago and now no longer need glasses. I was at about -15 diopters and -14 diopters.

Coincidentally, I also just had Crystalens intraocular lens implants, which I guess could have had, in conjunction with the lack of red meat, some effect too.

Melinda Romanoff

Ah, a buyout.

Excellent. Hope she gave a receipt.

Melinda Romanoff

'Cause there definitely ain't no warranty.

Ben Franklin

"When you think about this,it looks like the kind fo social studies carp sandwich one expects to see these days."

That's the kind of sandwich everyone tries to avoid. Alas, it isn't always possible, even for gourmets, such as yerself.

Melinda Romanoff

Jane-

You have mail.

henry

Very interesting results from True the Vote. Only 819k unique signatures, 55k invalid, 229k questionable. That leaves 535k validated, 540k needed for a recall. Well done Caro, Frau, AliceH, JoanD! (The GAB will have an election anyway, but that is a very different number from the 1 million claimed).

centralcal

More on Snowe, from NRO:

Phil Curtis, the Republican majority leader in the Maine house of representatives, tells NRO that the Maine GOP held a meeting of “eight or ten” state-party officials this afternoon at the headquarters in Augusta. The meeting included the Republican speaker of house “and a few other people,” and it ended “just about an hour ago.”

When asked if he had received any forewarning about Snowe’s announcement, Curtis replies, “Not a word. It came as a surprise to me and to the rest of us. We all heard it at once.”

Ben Franklin

Another carp sandwich. Sorry, Clarice.


"Consumer confidence has shot up to the highest level since a year ago when things were looking up for the U.S. economy before souring again.

A private research group’s index dramatically rose to 70.8, up from a revised 61.5 in January, despite analysts expecting a reading of just 63."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107868/US-Conference-Board-consumer-confidence-surges-highest-level-year.html#ixzz1nisyK9Kl

Melinda Romanoff

Or she had a skeleton rattle.

Melinda Romanoff

Mark Kirk will be the next one picked off. Special election in a Presidential year? Lay-up.

Melinda Romanoff

Henry!

What fun facts those are.

clarice feldman

JOMers did a yeoman job checking all those signatures, HIP HIP HOORAY!!!!!

Captain Hate

I think it dropped my metabolism even lower than what it had been before.

Nicotine causes adrenaline to be released so your assumption is likely.

Welcome Marlene; what part of Maine are you from?

centralcal

Yes, they did, Clarice!

A Casual Observation

Ben @ 6:29

Wait, don't tell me, you're thinking about Romney, right?

(Another) Barbara

When you think about this,it looks like the kind fo social studies carp sandwich one expects to see these days.

Yup. Guess it's why our prison population is so heavily laden with the upper-class elite.

File these seven studies under "ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."

Janet

JOMers did a yeoman job checking all those signatures, HIP HIP HOORAY!!!!!

Amen! Well done Caro, Frau, AliceH, JeanD, & henry!

narciso

Orwell is out guide in this, that line came from the notion, he had heard, 'the US had come not to fight the Germans, but to put down
an English Revolution,'

Janet

Nicotine causes adrenaline to be released so your assumption is likely.

Good Lord. If I quit smoking I probably wouldn't ever get up. Two packs a day, two pots of coffee & I'm a sloth. Not good. :(

marlene barresi

Seems there was no warning from Snowe to anyone,Senator Collins was totally surprised. Centralcal mentioned the meeting of state Republican leaders,the Maine Senate President,Kevin Raye was her long time chief of staff in DC and is running against Mike Michaud in the 2nd district House race. Captain Hate,we lived in far northern Maine for 30 years,now central Maine,a cabin near the Penobscot.

Ben Franklin

"Wait, don't tell me, you're thinking about Romney, right?"

Well. I'm thinking of Romney, but dreaming of Santorum. :>)

Jane

Got it Mel and answered. And you are right, I did enjoy it.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

The True the Vote result is interesting. Walker's team is smart not to expend unnecessary energy challenging signatures and putting the heat on the Dems to choose a candidate and get ready for a state-wide election.

The Dems now have the further problem that they spent much of their time and money getting the signatures to trigger a recall. That they got barely enough (or maybe too few) has to take the wind out of some sails.

Now if the voter id law holds up, things look pretty good for Walker, et al.

rse

Hi Marlene. Welcome aboard.

cathy F-I think what Jane is referring to is something different and far more intrusive than the Old Pres Physical Fitness.

This is a test that will get at physical fitness levels that will then be monitored and the data kept for each student. There will be lots of data kept on each student longitudinally. "Assessing physical needs" seems to be the idea.

The databases and software to keep track of all this seems to be part of what the Stimulus Act funded because what it said it was funding already existed. I am pretty sure on this as I do not have a declaration but I have run into the physical needs and monitoring quite a bit as well as confirming what was supposed to be financed already existed.

Of course it may be the Chicago way to pay more than once.

Gmax

AMF Rino Snowe. How about a real conservative from Maine for something different?

Captain Hate

Thanks Marlene; you're near Baxter, no? I love it up there.

Gmax

How could the voter ID law not hold. Indiana law has been to the US Supreme Court. Its the law of the land, despite what idiots in Madison think.

Captain Hate

cathy F-I think what Jane is referring to is something different and far more intrusive than the Old Pres Physical Fitness.

I've heard this from an insider too.

Gmax

Maine just elected a Republican Governor and a Republican House and Senate. I dont know where the Democrats taking over comes from, but someone needs to take their meds.

centralcal

Marlene - that Bangor paper says that March is the filing deadline!!!! What date in March - the 1st? Also there is a requirement for 2,500 signatures, according to a commenter.

It sounds like Snowe is going out giving everyone "the finger." Just like she did with so many of her votes.

How will this impact Susan Collins? I am sure she has "the vapors" knowing her RINO twin will be leaving.

narciso

Well how about wasting a whole period on the stupid BMI measurement,

Rick Ballard

Scott Damboise is ready and has the necessary signatures in Maine.

NK

Henry-- as usual you are the best giving us wisc info. Bottom line there'll be a recall vote, and 'Bam and the unions will bicker over how much to spend on the recall and 'bam's election. Heh

scott

Yikes Porch! Using the Atwater 4 kcal/g of protein for 4 pounds of lean chicken gives 7,264 calories! This, I think, is roughly the daily intake of the chicom ladies swim team and they're not fat :) though the anabolics probably help.

By the way, (Atwater and Woods, 1896) Storrs, CT - where the 4-9-4 energy values come from - is pretty flawed by todays standards and could use updating. Chaco?...:)

Ignatz

--Hmm, I had you pegged for more of a red meat guy. There's the internet for you.--

jimmy, jimmy, tsk, tsk.
The four pounds of chicken is in addition to two or three nice flat iron stakes.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

Looks like Scott Damboise may have had Olympia on the run.

jimmyk

two or three nice flat iron stakes.

Ouch, I mean I've heard of sword swallowing, but that seems a bit harsh.

Boatbuilder

"It follows that the most ruthless, unprincipled sociopaths would rise to the top of the pyramid, when competing with people who have an ethical core."

The tenure process, explained.

centralcal

Rick, not so fast, read this:

Several Republicans are currently working behind the scenes to position for a run, because the party will not tolerate Scott D’Amboise as their nominee. Names currently being circulated are Kevin Raye, former gubernatorial candidate Steve Abbott, Secretary of State Charlie Summers, former Ambassador Peter Cianchette, Treasurer Bruce Poliquin, and others. Whoever wants to move on this has to do so quickly, because the filing deadline is March.

Porchlight

Catching up with the thread. Guys, when I said four pounds of chicken, I was just giving an extreme example in response to this comment from Chaco:

And there's a lot of good evidence that portion control and the old "push away from the table" approach aren't successful long ter,

I wasn't suggesting that anyone should, or does, eat so much chicken. My point was, no matter what you are eating, portion control is an important factor in weight control. Nuts and seeds are great, but large amounts of them are going to be fattening. Etc.

And yes, some people aren't going to be helped by portion control alone, or are going to have a hard time sticking with it, or have metabolism issues, etc. But on balance, it's common sense to restrict portions of higher calorie foods.

I continue to think that our food weirdness/obsession is a symptom of a decadent society long used to cheap, plenteous food. The rest of the world is glad to get what they get and they certainly don't have our obesity issues.

Gmax

Think D'Amboise might have been getting some traction pointing this out? Here:

Olympia Snowe was the only Republican voting in favor of the health care reform bill in the Senate Finance Committee1 - a critical step that cleared the way for the bill to be passed

narciso

Seriously chase him away with torches, replace him with one of the Top Men, from Duke and Duke's executive training program,

http://www.damboiseforsenate.com/about

marlene barresi

We do have a June 12 primary for nomination of candidates for U.S. Senate and House(and state and county offices).The candidates must submit petitions to Secretary of State by March 15. (maine.gov)

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