Audio Expert Tom Owen Switches Sides (Or Stays On Side Of Truth...)

CNN has a new enhancement:

Sanford, Florida (CNN) -- George Zimmerman told his lawyers that he whispered "punks," not a racial slur, in the moments before he shot Trayvon Martin, his attorneys told CNN on Thursday.

Some people interpreted the police recording of Zimmerman's call to 911 as evidence the fatal shooting was racially motivated.

Zimmerman attorneys Hal Ulrig and Craig Sonner told CNN their client told them that he said, "F---ing punks."

Forensic audio expert Tom Owen, who analyzed 911 recordings, agreed the garbled word that raised controversy was "punks," not the racial slur some people said they heard

When Owen, chairman emeritus of the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used a computer application to remove cell phone interference, the word became clearer, he said. After discussions with linguists, he said he became convinced that Zimmerman said "punks."

Hold the love - Tom Owen is the self-promoter who claimed, contra his own website and that of other experts that he could make a meaningful comparison of screams to the spoken word.  CNN had experts expressing skepticism as to the legal admissibility of this process, but they like him today. 

But he apparently has a good reputation, so maybe he really is just playing it straight.

 

Comments

[MOON]

Could the childlike screaming be from the 13 year old witness whose dog ran off?

Who did Trayvon Martin's girlfriend call after she hears him get shoved by the scary man who was following him? It's not late at night, it's evening. Martin had spent five hours on the phone that day, he calls her to tell her he feels threatened, she hears angry voices, a shove and the call ends and that's it? What 16 year old girl does not immediately make another phone call? Martin's family is down the street, the cops, your buddies, your mom, Martin's coach, his buddies, somebody.

Instead the body lies there unidentified because nobody is looking for him. There was a phone call, the contents have been invented by a crooked lawyer.

[jwest]

With Obama scheduled to give an introduction to the 50th anniversary showing of “To Kill a Mockingbird” on Saturday, it would be a great opportunity for some enterprising conservative with video skills to poach the mob scene in front of the jail and superimpose left wing media figures on the mob’s faces.

Add a bit of dubbing having the mob calling for Zimmerman’s lynching, the video would be a natural to go viral.

[Jane]

Tom Owens is the Gloria Alred of voice recognition.

[iqvoice]

At this point, is there any publicly available evidence that disagrees with Zimmermans story?

I can only think of one thing... tm's gf's account of their cell phone conversation. But where are the cell phone records to back up the story?

Hey you libs... If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit! The science of voice analysis is settled!

If could think of any more trite phrases, I'd include them too.

[cboldt]

Good question about who, if anybody DeeDee called after losing contact with Trayvon. I don't think she knows who to call, in Sanford. She's hours away in Miami.

DeeDee didn't go to Trayvon's funeral. Why not? Her excuse is that she was so distraught, she couldn't handle it.

But if Zimmerman's account is accurate, and the police don't have any evidence to cast doubt on it, then DeeDee (if she was on the phone when the fight started) knows what Trayvon said. She would have heard Trayvon say "You [have a problem] now."

If there is a grand jury, she'll get a subpoena.

[donald]

Last night I met a client, who has been sending me quite a bit of business. I show up and she's a stunning beauty, taller than me, and well, I just couldn't believe it. Anyhoo, we got to talking, she was very smart, and independent and all that crap. Suddenly, there was a crawl on the TV about this case. I didn't care and ignored it, but then all of a sudden, she started asking me questions. I demured. Finally after prodding, I mentioned that nothing she had seen had any semblence of reality. After complimenting me on my vocabulary, she said I must not be keeping up.

Well, I don't keep up with the TV news anymore, but on certain issues (This one!) I'm completely up to speed. Suffice to say, that my first stirrings of attraction to someone else (And believe me I didn't go in there thinking anything like that, I had no idea what this person looked like, but super tall leggy blondes are, well super tall leggy blondes)went down in flames after I explained to her what was happening (Vicious campaign ploy by the Obama administration, better watch out in that nice little house in your gentrifying neighborhood). She then took the time to tell me (And really, I had zero interest) that she had voted for Barak Obama. I asked why, cause like a car crash I was watching this in slow motion in an out of body experience? She said because George Bush and John McCain were hell bent on making abortion illegal. I offered her my house if she could come up with one single instance of either of those guys mentioning that at any time. She said they didn't have to. Oh well.

Heartbreaking.

[donald]

I did salvage a little bit out of the evening by whooping out my cell phone and calling Newt at 12:18 this morning. Cause I do have Newts cell number. Oh yes I do.

[donald]

Whoops, whipping.

[NK]

Owens?... slag

[Patriot4Freedom]

Claiming that GZ used a racial epithet against Trayvon was just part of the willful distortion of the facts in this case.

I listened to GZ's call the other night, and I was very sure that I heard the word "punks" where the race baiters claimed GZ said "coons". I even posted a comment on the tape to that effect here on the 4th.

LUN

I'm inclined to believe this was all part of a plan to blow this into a national cause celebre, possibly to stir up the black vote for Obama, and to gin-up support for a civil case by the grieving parents.

[cboldt]

The point of hearing "fscking coons" is to tag George as a racist. The evidence that George is not racially biased is overwhelming.

"Fscking coons" was a figment of the media imagination, ginned up to increase tension. See too the police video that "shows no wounds." Cherry pick the worst available evidence, and use it to assert a false conclusion.

[cboldt]

DeeDee's account of the call doesn't cut against Zimmerman. Her assumption that Zimmerman shoved Trayvon is just that - and she could well be lying about what she knows on that count, rather than just jumping to a conclusion about the physical action. But the words she recounts, Trayvon talking first, that cuts in Zimmerman's favor.

In all accounts, Trayvon is the one who chooses to initiate a more "intimate" encounter.

[clarice feldman]

OT: The doctors who gave oput those medical excuses to the Wisconsin protesters have been disciplined.

" doctors for writing out sick notes for radical far left protesters.
Channel 3000 reported:

Newly released records show the University of Wisconsin-Madison’s medical school disciplined 20 doctors for writing sick notes for protesters during last years’ labor demonstrations at the state Capitol.

Records obtained by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and the Wisconsin State Journal on Thursday show 11 doctors were docked pay between the amounts of $500 and $4,001 and had to attend ethics training.

Nine others were residents, or doctors-in-training. They were given written reprimands and also had to attend ethics training.

All the doctors were warned that further violations could result in termination."

[Melinda Romanoff]

Pre-packaged PR push out of WH. They looked for a crime Stat they could repackage and they pushed it. This is what Axelrod does for all his clients, now he gets to play with the MFM instead of just the Chicago "access-trained" Pavlovian Press.

[narciso]

You're over thinking this, Crump brought the story to them, he has the link through Sharpton, he serves a similar function that
"Rex and Tank' the Justice bros of Anchorage,
did in filing those silly complaints against
Sarah, and later Levi's business manager and
agents.

[cboldt]

An internal NBC News probe has determined a "seasoned" producer was to blame for a misleading clip of a 911 call that the network broadcast during its coverage of the Trayvon Martin shooting, according to two sources at the network.

"Seasoned" meaning this person has experience with converting hard evidence into slanderous narrative.

[clarice feldman]

jwest--for you:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/539786_396822643663098_382006931811336_1547802_1266483935_n.jpg

I am appalled too to find the folks down here seem utterly ignorant of the facts of this case, Oh, how they loved the 60's where the villains were clear and moral superiority came so cheap.

[Extraneus]

Seems a little light for medical fraud, Clarice. How much do those doctors make, anyway? Less than $400K? Not even one day's pay.

Writing a false prescription is a felony. Why wouldn't a doctor's use of his signature to knowingly aid government employees in defrauding the government be at least a misdemeanor?

[henry]

Ext, in Dane County (Madison) only Republicans are prosecuted.

[Janet]

She said because George Bush and John McCain were hell bent on making abortion illegal. I offered her my house if she could come up with one single instance of either of those guys mentioning that at any time. She said they didn't have to. Oh well.

Heartbreaking.

Feelings & emotions...no facts. Like the "war on women" / banning contraceptives crap. It is a joke. Condoms are in just about every convenience store, grocery store, gas station, & pharmacy. Are the Planned Parenthood clinics that WE ARE FUNDING doing such a lousy job that women can't get condoms & birth control? Maybe these lib women should take up their gripes with Planned Parenthood?

[DublinDave]

I still believe Georgies self-defence claim wont hold up.

Ignoring a 911 dispatcher,carring a loaded gun while following a child at night time,a child who is walking back from the shops carry a bag of skittles,confronting the child and scaring the crap out of them to such a degree they defend themselves against a would be armed attacker................then slaughtering the unarmed child.

For all the voice analysis,video enhancement parties thrown by the pro-Zimmerman(can you even believe there's a pro-child murderer section of society)Georgies self-defence claim is going to get crushed.

[cboldt]

Ahhh, a voice from the pro-aggravated assault choir. Can I get an "Amen!"?

[narciso]

Can we make Kitty, the unofficial mascot of JOM.

[Pofarmer]

Can DublinDave really be this Stoopid? Probably.

[cboldt]

DublinDave -> agitprop. 6'3" varsity football player = child. Yeah, okay, technically he's not an adult. The skillits and IT meme is dead; the evidence has GZ following dispatch's order, etc.

He's not stupid, he a farking liar of the first order.

[jwest]

OT – Jobs numbers are out and are “below expectations”.

Unfortunately, you can’t see my “shocked face”.

[narciso]

I think he's related to MarinaDave.

[hit and run]

I see that ad at the top with Michelle. I can't tell if she wants me to tell Barack "urine",or if it's a fill in the blank thing and "Tell Barack, 'you're an....'"

Confusing. I'll go with the latter.

"Barack, you're an ... ass."

[Cecil Turner]

Prof Jacobson (at Legal Insurrection, HT:Insty) has the three audio "experts" side by side (by side) . . . CNN proves “beyond a reasonable doubt” why cases should not be tried in the media :

There is no better proof that cases should not be tried in the media than the accounts of whether Zimmerman said “f-ing coons” under his breath on the 911 tape. That alleged statement has been the key media and left-blogosphere piece of evidence of racial motivation.

I don't know how anyone ever heard "coon" in that word (or "cold") . . . unless they were trying reeeaally hard. "Punks" at least matches the start and end (though the "nk" part is faint at best).

[Neo]

"If the words doesn't fit, you must acquit."

[narciso]

I know it's Matt Daamon, but still;

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/04/05/matt-damon-star-anti-fracking-film

[narciso]

THey can't gets the sports plays right, they honestly think this is in their paygrade;

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/04/05/espn-grantland-writer-twists-george-zimmermans-actions/#comments

[NK]

MelR--@8:26 and DubDave-- show the sinister plan that's going on here. MelR explains how this pre-packaged Plouffe-Axelrod media scam works. DaveDub shows the point of their sinister plan. Plouffe-Axelrod want to stir up black-lib resentment and hate -- look at the polls only blacks and committed libs believe this media BS. But agitating the base has a purpose, it will increase black voter participation to as close to 2008 as possible, that turnout won't win the election, but it will 'explain' the late precinct reports in swing state urban areas. The sinister plan ends with 'Bam daring RACISTS to challenge a black POTUS close win. That's the plan.

[DublinDave]

"I offered her my house if she could come up with one single instance of either of those guys mentioning that at any time. She said they didn't have to. Oh well."

Course she didn't have to,every moron knows that Bush's 'partial-birth abortion bill' was a significant inroads to gutting roe v wade.Actually the Bush administration laid the legislative framework for introducing a ton of trap door acts designed to curb woman's reproductive rights.

She was probably thinking,"this guys an idiot,and anyway, why would I want to live in a trailer park?".

[Ignatz]

--I demured.......I asked why, cause like a car crash I was watching this in slow motion in an out of body experience?--

donald, donald, donald.

When super tall leggy blondes walk in I'd think the least you could is suss out her political leanings and express a profound sympathy for them.
Better yet of course is to divert the conversation to your etchings or their modern day equivalent.
You should have called your attorney up and had him file that demurrer you attempted, instead of volunteering as a human mine sweeper.
Thanks for taking one for the team though.
Question is, What Would Newt Have Done?

[Melinda Romanoff]

Narciso-

I don't think I'm overthinking this one. I'veseen this show before.

[NK]

DublinDave -- thanks again for showing the liberal 'mind' at work. A conservative demands facts to support opinion, the lib responds with personal insults. That's the deal. Modern Liberalism is truly a mental illness.

[Melinda Romanoff]

By the way, posting from a Kindle is a pain of superior proportions.

[Cecil Turner]

Much has been made of Martin's football, but all the photos in jerseys are from youth leagues, and there are several reports (e.g., this one) saying he quit playing:

The boy was a swift athlete, according to a friend, and played a range of positions up to about age 14. After he stopped playing, he remained active in the organization, volunteering six days a week from June through November of last year to help run the team's concession stand.

AFAICT, the "varsity football player" meme is from Zimmerman's lawyer, and unsupported.

[narciso]

In Chicago, well with both Phleger and Wright,
I wouldn't doubt it, our news down here, does
echo similar patterns, hang the officer first,
trial later.

[narciso]

I guess it's not good mood food after all;

http://twitchy.com/2012/04/06/president-of-arbys-donated-to-obama-clinton-and-edwards/

[DublinDave]

sorry...'made inroads into gutting'...as if it matters

[Ignatz]

--(can you even believe there's a pro-child murderer section of society)--

I seldom disagree with Jane, but in this case I can really not see the downside to wee Dublin Dave being imprisoned on a bad rap precisely as he's drooling to lynch Mr. Zimmerman.
No doubt 10-15 with some of society's most ardent Obama supporters would put a serious dent in his infantile view of the world. His imbecility has already accumulated a pretty hefty debt to society whether he's plugged anybody or not.

[bunkerbuster]

It's telling that even Zimmerman's most zealous apologists have him being "acquitted" and presenting a defense of x, y and z.
They're not even bothering to argue that there was no probable cause, because they know that train has left the station. They're already speaking as if it comes down to what evidence the prosecution has versus what evidence the defense has.
Zimmerman was following Martin and we know from the 911 calls that he believed Martin may be involved in a crime AND that he was frustrated by the thought that Martin may succeed in the crime.
It is beyond dispute that Zimmerman had the means -- a loaded 9mm handgun AND the motive, stopping what he believed to be a potential crime, to shoot Martin dead.
Given that, we have to question the motives of the police in deciding not to investigate the case more fully.
And AGAIN, why aren't any Zimmerman devotees arguing that a fuller investigation would be certain to have produced more evidence, and the more evidence the more exoneration??
Instead, the argument is now that because Zimmerman didn't use a particular racial slur, he must have killed Martin in self-defense.
Somehow I don't think that'll go very far in an actual trial -- if Zimmerman even has to face one.
iqvoice asks: ``is there any publicly available evidence that disagrees with Zimmermans story?''
A short list:
1. the lack of serious injuries to Zimmerman. Remember, his claim has to be that he feared for his life. Without serious injuries, it is rather obvious that simply not be willing to get your ass kicked could just as easily have been the motive.
2. No blood on the sidewalk, no blood on Zimmerman's clothes.
3. Zimmerman had the motive (he's on tape saying "these assholes always get away''), the means --loaded gun--and the opportunity -- he knew he could claim self-defense to commit the crime.

[Sue]

Amen!

[Sue]

I found another child that could have been Obama's son.

[Sue]

WTH? How the hell are you supposed to read these words when you get caught up in captcha hell?

[narciso]

You know when I didn't know any better, I though there might have been less of this,
I was sadly naive back then, in the LUN

[centralcal]

Agree Sue. It is like trying to read gibberish and then type the same! ugh.

[Threadkiller]

When are we getting back to the leggy blond story?

[Ignatz]

--They're not even bothering to argue that there was no probable cause, because they know that train has left the station. They're already speaking as if it comes down to what evidence the prosecution has versus what evidence the defense has.--

I could wile away the hours Conferrin' with the flowers Consultin' with the rain And my head I'd be scratchin' While my thoughts were busy hatchin' If I only had a brain

I'd unravel any riddle
For any individ'le
In trouble or in pain

I would not be just a nuffin'
My head all full of stuffin'
My heart all full of pain
I would dance and be merry
Life would be a ding-a-derry
If I only had a brain

[Extraneus]

Donald, you should have listened to Frank Zappa...

Find her finer, sneak up behind her Wrapped like a mummy till you finally unwind her Find her blinder, see who designed her Act like a dummy till you finally grind her (uh huh)

If you should see a girl on the street
Now maybe you might think she is sweet
But if you wanna tickle her treat
Now really, what should you do?
(Rat-tat-tat-tat ta-da!)

Don't never let her know you are smart
The universe is no place to start
You gotta play it straight from the heart
She gwine renunciate you

(That's why you gotta . . . )

Find her finer, sneak up behind her
Wrapped like a mummy till you finally unwind her
Find her blinder, see who designed her
Act like a dummy till you finally grind her

Now maybe you might think this is crude
And maybe you might think I am rude
And maybe this approach I have spewed
Is not the one for you
(Rat-tat-tat-tat ta-da!)

But believe me later on you'll find
As you impress her with your mind
That you would just be left behind
For a wiser fool

[fdcol63]

" Life would be a ding-a-derry
If I only had a brain "

And the brainless are society's dingle-berries.

[narciso]

All the Nazguls get through as well as the Spammers, so what's the point?

[donald]

Ignatz, when I handed the phone to her, she asked if it was him, he demanded to know where she got the number, then started chatting her up. He had no idea who she was. It was pretty damned funny.

[cboldt]

-- the lack of serious injuries to Zimmerman. --

Neither legal standard not basic common sense requires serious injury be inflicted on a person, before they are justified in the use of self defense, yet that appears to be the standard that you advocate. So, If I threaten you with a firearm, you have no right to self defense, because you aren't seriously injured?

-- No blood on the sidewalk, no blood on Zimmerman's clothes. --

Not as far as we know, but the police know more, and they aren't talking.

-- Zimmerman had the motive --

Sure did. Fear of losing ones life has a profound effect on ones motivation.

The police lacked probable cause. That's been discussed, you just choose to overlook it. And, FWIW, when there is a discussion about probable cause, the discussion involves review of evidence.

There is NO evidence, NONE, that contradicts Zimmerman's account. Speculation is not evidence. If it was, we'd have you jailed for inciting riots.

[donald]

Thanks for the advice Extraneous (I love that song!), maybe next year.

[donald]

What really sucks, is I have no interest in politics anymore, and there I was getting dragged into some stupid debate on something that simply does not matter anymore (As a political issue).

[cboldt]

-- maybe next year. --

Do you think leggy blonde will forget your recent encounter by then?

[donald]

All I really wanna do is ride my new mountain bike. Without the helmet cause I'm a rebel.

[Ignatz]

--Ignatz, when I handed the phone to her, she asked if it was him, he demanded to know where she got the number, then started chatting her up. He had no idea who she was. It was pretty damned funny.--

Well those details do salvage the evening somewhat, donald.
Better luck next time.

[Jane]

Course she didn't have to,every moron knows that Bush's 'partial-birth abortion bill' was a significant inroads to gutting roe v wade.

DubDave,

Could you explain how? Thanks

[jwest]

For God’s sake Donald, wear your helmet.

If you want to see what happens when you don’t, just read some of DublinDave’s comments.

[donald]

I'm pretty forgettable, so probably.

[Captain Hate]

It's too bad the identity white hispanic wasn't an identity illegal immigrant because then the identity imbecile would be beating his identity head on the identity wall to figure out which identity victim to identity support.

[Ignatz]

--Donald, you should have listened to Frank Zappa...--

I think buub and wee Dave should too;

Oh Bobby, I'm sorry you gotta head like a potato
I really am.

[NK]

cboldt@10:01 I disagree with one thing you say/imply. The fact that TMartin was unarmed and had reason to be on the property required the SFD and prosecutor to closely investigate GZ's self-defense claim. That required the SFD to check out GZ's background (he did have an arrest and lots of calls to the SFD) to properly scrutinize the SD claim. that said -- apparently -- the forensics corroborate GZ's story and no witness discredits the story he told. As you say-- where is the EVIDENCE of an unlawful killing? The hustlers can produce a witness who'll testify, then the case could change. Until then, they are an ugly mob.

[Janet]

WTH? How the hell are you supposed to read these words when you get caught up in captcha hell?

Hah! Same for me. Recently it is a new captcha that is harder for me to read.

[clarice feldman]

OT: In Ohio, a new Rasmussen poll shows Josh Mandel tied with Sherrod Brown --- 43% to 43%.

[NK]

More OT-- link to brief Bloomberg News account of Corzine's MF Global transferring $700+M to select banks in October 2011 before the bankruptcy. Why isn't Corzine in jail? There's PROOF of a crime here-- his customer acounts vaporized-- he was CEO, SARBOX makes him criminally responsible. Indict Corzine now. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-06/mf-global-brokerage-may-have-moved-customer-funds-creditors-say.html

[Jane (where is Jon Corzine?)]

He's not in jail because Holder is the AG and Obama is the president.

And I predict he will be pardoned before he is ever arrested.

[Extraneus]

In case anyone would like another boycott target, here's a good one.

Arby's

Big Dem and Obama donors, pulled ads from Rush Limbaugh, ironically owned by a company named after Howard Roark of The Fountainhead.

Bye Arby's.

[cboldt]

-- I disagree with one thing you say/imply. The fact that TMartin was unarmed and had reason to be on the property required the SFD and prosecutor to closely investigate GZ's self-defense claim. --

I didn't mean to imply that an investigation was inappropriate, or that the police should assume Zimmerman was being truthful. My point was that after they collected evidence, including questioning the suspect, Zimmerman, they concluded that they lacked probable cause. That means that the evidence was insufficient for them to articulate why they suspected Zimmerman did not act in justified self defense; turning his action into manslaughter.

[Extraneus]

Hala Moddelmog, president of Arby’s Group, Inc. who just pulled its Arby’s ads on Rush Limbaugh’s show, is not just an Obama donor like David Friend of Carbonite, Inc. In fact, Moddelmog donated to John Edwards, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama during the 2008 election cycle.

Hala Moddelmog?

[Thomas Collins]

"that train has left the station."

Actually, bunkerbuster, the initial train of the race baiting fundamentalists (racist out of control white adult murders baby faced kid) has derailed. Look for the new handcar to be that there was a confrontation that Zimmerman escalated into a murder. Look for the race hustlers to continue to emphasize that Zimmerman didn't have life threatening injuries (as if one having one's head pounded into the pavement has to wait for a neurologist to diagnose "closed head injury" before being able to defend oneself).

Or, bunkerbuster, perhaps you have inside word on the course of Angela Corey's investigation. Do tell. By the way, on his course of stalking the poor kid Martin, did Zimmerman have time to divert to North Carolina and rape Crystal Mangum?

[Jack is Back!]

Sitting in The City Lights Bookstore and Cafe in Sylva, NC having a coffee and using their WiFi. We have no access at our cabin in the sky. In fact, the phone is out of order so no dial up either. Frederick's blog is going to have to play catch up later. So we are going to be MIA for at least a week or until when we can find a cafe or hot spot.

Saw on TV that Corey is going to be holding a news conference and the Sanford Police are gearing up for the obligatory riots if she comes down on the side of Zimmerman. Is that correct?

[Neo]

A former CIA officer was indicted Thursday on charges of leaking secrets to journalists, including the name of a covert agent and the role of another CIA employee in classified operations.

John Kiriakou, who had previously revealed the CIA's use of waterboarding of Al-Qaeda suspects, was charged in January with leaking secrets. The indictment allows the case to proceed to trial without an evidentiary hearing.

The indictment returned by a grand jury in Virginia charged Kiriakou with one count of violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act and three counts of violating the Espionage Act.

They said if I voted for John McCain that whistle blowers would be prosecuted.

[Extraneus]

(Btw, that Arby's stuff was actually from Instapundit, which is who I should have linked.)

[Sue]

And while I'm ranting, why the hell did Fox & Friends have the national co-chair for the re-election of Obama, Eva Longoria, on this morning? A free plug for Obama who is the only person who is really looking out for Latinos. No rebuttal. Great!

[cboldt]

-- Saw on TV that Corey is going to be holding a news conference and the Sanford Police are gearing up for the obligatory riots if she comes down on the side of Zimmerman. Is that correct? --

I haven't heard of any schedule for a Corey news conference. The story about the Sanford PD gearing up for riots is accurate. LUN.

While it is unclear when Angela Corey will announce her decision, Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett said that he had met with emergency management teams and the federal Department of Justice to "prepare for the worst," WMKG reported.

[NK]

cboldt-- fair enough. That's the simple truth of what the SFD and prosecutor did before the hustlers and money hungry lawyer moved in.

[fdcol63]

And if I was Gov. Rick Scott, I'd have the FL National Guard on standby, as well, to send into Sanford if needed.

Despite whatever evidence has come out to contradict the racist Zimmerman meme, the black community's anger has already been stoked and they will not accept a confirmation of the self-defense determination, if that's what happens.

[DublinDave]

"Course she didn't have to,every moron knows that Bush's 'partial-birth abortion bill' was a significant inroads to gutting roe v wade." DublinDave

"DubDave,Could you explain how? Thanks" posted by Jane

No,do your own research,present a decent rebuttal and i'll answer it.

While your ignoring my advice and instead fethcing the scotch and the slippers, here are some quotes from around the time of the Supreme courts ruling on the 'partial birth ban' act's Constitutionality.

“The court today has begun to right a terrible wrong,” said Paul Schenck, executive director of the National Pro-life Action Center on Capitol Hill.
“In upholding the will of the people in this matter, the majority has laid the first blow to Roe v. Wade and its putrefying spawn,” he said.

OUCH.

Troy Newman, president of Operation Rescue, described the ruling as the “first legal crack in the crumbling Roe v. Wade foundation.”

EEEEK!!!!!!

Donalds smart blonde knew.

[Gmax]

Sherrod stuck at 43% 7 months from election. Mandel is going to have an easier time that I even expected unseating an incumbent. Too bad cuz Sherrod is fun to laugh at, but hey there will still be Debbie Does America...

[Rob Crawford]

NK:
The fact that TMartin was unarmed and had reason to be on the property required the SFD and prosecutor to closely investigate GZ's self-defense claim.

Neither "unarmed" nor "reason to be on the property" have any bearing on the validity of a self-defense claim.

That required the SFD to check out GZ's background (he did have an arrest and lots of calls to the SFD) to properly scrutinize the SD claim.

Neither a prior arrest nor many calls to the police have any bearing on the validity of a self defense claim.

that said -- apparently -- the forensics corroborate GZ's story and no witness discredits the story he told.

That's the only thing that matters to the validity of a self defense claim.

[Rob Crawford]

No,do your own research,present a decent rebuttal and i'll answer it.

In other words, Dave, you cannot back up your assertion.

Fraud.

[Rob Crawford]

Despite whatever evidence has come out to contradict the racist Zimmerman meme, the black community's anger has already been stoked and they will not accept a confirmation of the self-defense determination, if that's what happens.

Some say that was the whole point of the operation...

[Extraneus]

If there's violence in Florida, I don't see how it could possibly help Obama. White people all throughout the land will be thinking "WTF! We elect a black guy President, and this is what happens?" And rightly so.

[Jack is Back!]

cboldt,

Thanks for clarifying. Caught all that in passing.

I am expecting a "summer of discontent" starring our social justice agitator in chief.

[Janet]

Indict Corzine now.

...and every New Black Panther that put a bounty on George Zimmerman should be brought up on charges too.

[NK]

RobC@1056-- obviously I really disagree with you regarding what the circumstances of an unarmed 17yo lawfully on the proerty require the cops and prosecutor to do. The forensics and 911 tapes, eyewitness accounts are the most relevant evidence, but the totality of the circumstances will determine whether to take the facts to a GJ. For instance, if GZ had a revoked handgun permit, if he had multiple arrests for violent assault, was he drug/alchohol impaired, if he and the dead kid had prior confrontations etc etc, all of those those circumstances would all be relevant to a prosecutor in determining the credibility of the SD claim, and PC of a crime, and how to proceed with a GJ. Sorry you're not going to convince me otherwise.

[NK]

RobC@1101-- that --plus big bucks for crump-- was definitely the hustlers' plan. I am one of the some who believe that.

[Rob Crawford]

NK, you're refusing to understand me:

It doesn't matter that he was unarmed or not, or any of the other circumstances. The investigation requires the same due diligence. It's a pure fantasy to think there are stricter requirements to investigating the use of lethal force based on the circumstances.

If you shoot an intruder in your home, have a dozen knife wounds and the intruder is holding a bloody knife, the police will dig just as deep as they would if you were on the street, unwounded, and the guy shot was unarmed.

[centralcal]

White people all throughout the land...

I would amend that to non-blacks, Ext. I think quite a few (ethnic) groups would be troubled by that development.

[DublinDave]

"No,do your own research,present a decent rebuttal and i'll answer it."

"In other words, Dave, you cannot back up your assertion."

No,in other words, "prove it", is the kind of arguement put forward by a ten year old.

For a debate forum it's incredibly weak.

Now i've cited several key players from the political wing of the pro-life section who went on record stating that undermining roe v wade was the intention and the result of Bush's partial birth abortion act.If Jane wants to debate the way in which the act does that,she's got to come up with something a little stronger than "prove it".

[Ignatz]

--If you shoot an intruder in your home, have a dozen knife wounds and the intruder is holding a bloody knife, the police will dig just as deep as they would if you were on the street, unwounded, and the guy shot was unarmed.--

Is that true, Rob.
There are a lot more potential angles to the second scenario than the first.

[NK]

RobC-- it may be semantics, not a big deal. But honestly in your hypo about the shooter being in their own home with a dozen knife wounds and the dead guy was an intruder with a knife, even I would be OK with a less intense investigation of the circumstances by the cops, that's a real strong self-defense case on the face if it. But, no reason to argue hypos and semantics at this point. There is no credible public evidence discrediting GZ. How do you charge him with no rational expectation of a conviction by a fair jury? That's the situation here.

[Rob Crawford]

No,in other words, "prove it", is the kind of arguement put forward by a ten year old.

For a debate forum it's incredibly weak.

No, you idiot. For a debate forum it's effing expected. You made an assertion; it's up to you to back it up.

[Ignatz]

--If Jane wants to debate the way in which the act does that,she's got to come up with something a little stronger than "prove it".--

Just as an FYI dipshit, Jane is pro choice IIRC, to what extent I'm not sure, and appeared to merely be asking you to explain your reasoning not engage in a debate with a ranting imbecile.

[NK]

RobC-- BTW -- I give you credit, the facts as they played out confirmed your opinion of what happened. All the what ifs I harped about, never happened. No one and nothing have discredited GZ's story he told the EMTs/cops and his father. So you caught on faster than I did.