Memeorandum


Powered by TypePad

« Sense And Nonsense On "The Gutsy Call" | Main | Too Cheap A Shot »

April 29, 2012

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83451b2aa69e20168eae38b9d970c

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Great Moments In Automated Marketing Fails:

Comments

Clarice

Don't you love it when you get a chance at such great revenge? I'm still dreaming my horrid junior high school invites me to give the commencement address and I can let them know what I really think about the place.

henry

Tom, I'm seeing double and it's far too early to hit the juice.

I guess being a lefty requires immunity from facts.

jimmyk

Speaking of marketing, I think we got a two-for-one with this post.

Sounds like Ms. O'Brien might want to pair up with kaka on the "facts don't matter" team.

M. Simon

Nicer post.

sailor

TM, You are MUCH too nice--posting her link.

peter

OT, Clarice what a great AT piece today. Pike is such an interesting word; there are so many unrelated meanings; I can think of the staff, fish, diving position, roadway, hill.... am I missing any?

sbw

Tom, earnest effort, but if they aren't going to consider the evidence and logic of the first post, the second posting isn't likely to be more successful.

They have their fingers in their eyes and are reading, "LA! LA! LA! I can't read you!"

Clarice

I can't think of any others..peter. Thanks.

Tom Maguire
You are MUCH too nice--posting her link.

I battled with my inner churl and what can I say? The Washington Generals beat the Globetrotters once, too.

cboldt

Angela Corey missed deadline to release evidence - Sean Lavin - WKMG Local 6, Orlando

When denying requests from the public for the Zimmerman discovery records Friday, Corey's office told Local 6 Florida law allowed her to keep the records secret using a criminal investigative exemption because "no records have been provided to the defendant."

That should not affect the public release of whatever the state filed on April 11 and 12, with the Court.

Nice to see pressure on Corey.

sbw

Clarice, I enjoyed your pieces this morning. Thanks for writing it.

However, I am concerned that you might be Nugented for selling pikes. Someone might get the notion that Acme was encouraging their use instead of simply offering them for sale.

A clarification might reduce the odds of a visit from the Secret Service, if they have any agents left.

Tom Maguire

Not feeding the beast is one sure way to turn the media against her.

OTOH, how long can it take to release her case file? There's nothing in it! (I'll be here all week... Make that 'weak'...)

Threadkiller

A "Dear JOM" letter always makes me sad.

narciso

Wow, Corey is denser than DA Stratton in 'Vinnie', and that's saying something.

sbw

TK. Groan.

centralcal

ha ha, TK.

MarkO

Corey is performing the triple somersault without a net. From what we know, she has a thin case but massive political pressure.

Everything she does is a danger to her.

iqvoice

Our "Tom Gulliver" just crushed the entire Lilliputian civilization, and he didn't even have to call anyone "impossibly stupid" in the process.

I think this conversation is over now.

Danube of Thought

Minus 14 at Raz today.

Trails Romney bt 2.

Melinda Romanoff

TM, I sent one to the addy on the right.

cboldt

Corey's assertion that public disclosure hinges on disclosure to the defendant is false. The FL public records statute hinges availability to the public on whether or not the investigation is active; not on whether or not the investigation product is turned over to defendant.

DebinNC

Hard to see how O'Mara helps GZ by publicly defending Corey's decision to hide the evidence ball. It's like he's vouching for her at a time when she deserves all possible heat pointed her way. Why not remain silent and leave it to her surrogates to try to salvage her reputation?

mockmook

But, the press only wants the Zimmerman file so they can headline all the "damning" evidence against him (they'll get their race war, woohoo!!!).

They MAY be disappointed.

Clarice

Heh, SBW. I've learned my lesson. If the FBI shows up I'll refuse to speak to them. I'll mention Eckenrode and why he rode out of town when the Libby case came to trial.

cboldt

-- Hard to see how O'Mara helps GZ by publicly defending Corey's decision to hide the evidence ball. --


He may be conflating being formally charged with being arraigned (and in some cases, those dates might be very close together); but the Discovery rule gives O'Mara a right to demand discovery after charging (April 11). If he files before the time the rule allows, he might as well not file at all. IOW, if the clock starts on May 8, then that's the earliest he could file his notice.


Anyway, the deadline is up. He filed and served notice on April 27. Delay now is justified as a matter of redaction to protect witness identification.

Melinda Romanoff

Clarice, thank you for the chairman's report, but raises an important question. Who are the independent auditors?

Bob

Hard to see how O'Mara helps GZ by publicly defending Corey's decision to hide the evidence ball. DebinNC

I'm thinking maybe giving her enough rope, etc.

cboldt

April 27 -> April 12. The state was obliged to delivery its discovery material by the 27th. O'Mara can move for sanctions, such as getting a court order against the state.

Clarice

Mel, Tim Geithner recommended them to us. I'm not at liberty to publicly disclose their names--new secret BO executive orders on corporate auditors-- but I can offer a clue:Who audited Solyndra's books?

Danube of Thought

Why is it so important to Barbara and BooMan that GZ be guilty?

henry

Clarice, so Corzine has a steady job now?

DebinNC

After Friday's hearing, O'Mara told Local 6 he disagrees with what he called Ponce's "more strict interpretation" of the discovery deadline. O'Mara believes the deadline for Corey's office to make the documents public has not yet passed

Sanctions?... when he publicly supported Corey's interpretation of the law? I'm beginning to fear O'Mara is a bit starstruck by the national spotlight and looks for opportunities to comment or appear on tv to promote himself. Pro bono doesn't translate to "Look at me, ma. I'm on the top of the world!," does it?

cboldt

-- Hard to see how O'Mara helps GZ by publicly defending Corey's decision to hide the evidence ball. --


The only agreement between the state and O'Mara is keeping witness names and identifying information out of the public view.

Have Blue

If the eyewitness was wrong what "other" evidence and testimony exists?

AliceH

What stood out to me when reading cbolt's link, was that the media legal guy stated a position, with citation. The defense guy, O'Mara, stated a position, with citation. And the only party required to state a position, with citation, i.e. Prosecutor's office, is all radio silent.

I doubt there's a legal problem with failing to respond yet - it's still the weekend.

cboldt

-- Sanctions?... when he publicly supported Corey's interpretation of the law? --


I agree that he is timid on "moving fast," and probably on making demands he is entitled to make. I'm inclined to think he is tolerating or encouraging a slow walk of the case, even though he knows he can demand timely response.


I haven't heard Corey's office claim that the 15 day discovery deadline starts at arraignment. That nonsense came from O'Mara in the first place.


I like that the case is getting outside pressure via public records law. I'd overlooked that discovery deadline operates to render investigation inactive. The records are now, as a matter of FL law, public, and it is up to Corey to explain to the court why she need not make them public. Ponce should file a lawsuit based on her refusal to follow the law.

Jane (A dog in the crate is better than one on the plate)

"("Tom Maguire is an impossibly stupid man, and his commenters are probably even dumber") "

I see these sort of remarks from lefties all the time and it is always an indication that they know they have lost the argument. The attack is code to their buddies to ridicule so they can all save face together.

But here is my real concern: Is TM's post gonna get all those people who think we are "dumber" to come over here and tell us in person?

Threadkiller

Apparently, Henry, it is not too early after all.

Danube of Thought

Does that fool think a single human being read whatever that was? The man is around the bend.

carl

LOL!!

>>>Listen to the tape and imagine that it is recording a boy who is pinned to the ground being held at gunpoint who is terrified. Allow yourself to hear it. And you will know what happened.<<<<

Imaginary evidence, FTW!

Clarice

cboldt, in some courts around here, very aggressive motions pleading is looked down upon. It may be that --since he has the upper hand already--O'Mara is just allowing Corey more time to hang herself. If the deadline was Friday, there was no reason in any event to file before tomorrow, is there?

cboldt

Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure - 3.220 - Discovery

(a) After the filing of the charging document [April 11], a defendant may elect to participate in the discovery process ... by filing with the court and serving on the prosecuting attorney a Notice of Discovery[April 12] ...

(b)(1) Within 15 days after service of the Notice of Discovery, the prosecutor shall serve a written Discovery Exhibit which shall disclose to the defendant and permit the defendant to inspect, copy, test, and photograph the following information and material within the state's possession or control

Florida Statutes Chapter 119 - Public Records

The state default is records are public. I haven't found the specific section that correlates mandatory turnover to a defendant with mandatory making public.

Danube of Thought

For a moment there, as I scrolled and scrolled, I thought it was gonna say "anduril" at the bottom.

Have Blue

Trayvon Martin's father was certain the shouting on tape was not his son.

cboldt

-- in some courts around here, very aggressive motions pleading is looked down upon. It may be that --since he has the upper hand already--O'Mara is just allowing Corey more time to hang herself. --


Yes, his client is free on bail, and I'm sure O'Mara is busy enough. Plus, if Ponce is going to do the dirty work here, O'Mara might as well sit back.


At the same time, he should want to get the state's evidence soonest, and he has indicated that the state was acting in a way to provide the information to him before the deadline. I suppose he has a cordial relationship with prosecutors in general, and being outwardly easy-going may be his style. He didn't seemed miffed that the state filed a motion for gag order hours before the Friday hearing, for example.


Plus, he has a valid concern about keeping witness names out of the public eye, and it will take time to properly redact the state's evidence for public consumption. I agree that not having NEW material, now, is no issue at all. But what about material that has been in the court's possession since April 11/12?

cboldt

-- If the deadline was Friday, there was no reason in any event to file before tomorrow, is there? --


I agree with that. But if he wants this case to move along and get his client exonerated soonest, then he should be using the deadline. Before filing a motion with the court, he would, I presume, apprise the state that he expected the material already, ask when they will provide it so he has opportunity to review it, schedule depositions, and otherwise plan his management of the case. He might even offer a drop dead date, outside of the deadline, after which he will file a motion with the court to compel compliance with the rules of procedure. None of that correspondence would be public.

AliceH

"What stood out to me " turns out, upon second reading, to be ...what's the word? ... oh - baseless. I mixed up some of the 'who's and 'what's. Forget I said anything.

cboldt
119.011 - Public Records Definitions

(3)(c) "Criminal intelligence information" and "criminal investigative information" shall not include:

5. Documents given or required by law or agency rule to be given to the person arrested, except as provided in s. 119.071(2)(h) [child abuse, sex abuse, photos of sex organs], and, except that the court in a criminal case may order that certain information required by law or agency rule to be given to the person arrested be maintained in a confidential manner and exempt from the provisions of s. 119.07(1) until released at trial if it is found that the release of such information would:

a. Be defamatory to the good name of a victim or witness or would jeopardize the safety of such victim or witness; and

b. Impair the ability of a state attorney to locate or prosecute a codefendant.

I suspect that bolded "and" is meant to "or," otherwise public records could be used to intimidate witnesses pretrial, when there is no codefendant.

So, Ponce has the legal tools to put the pressure on Corey. O'Mara's assignment of May 8 as the start of the 15 day discovery clock is irrelevant. That Corey fails to provide the information to O'Mara is irrelevant, in deciding Ponce's case.

Rick Ballard

"But if he wants this case to move along and get his client exonerated soonest"

Zimmerman may want his defense fund to grow to the point where he has a few years living expenses covered prior to exoneration. The site isn't accepting donations as yet and there's a balance point regarding immunization which is rather ticklish. There's also a political point regarding the occupoopers Commie Day kick off for the spring rape and murder fest that will be interesting to watch. I'm betting that the Black Klan Kleagles will shoot for a tie-in.

DebinNC

"If Zimmerman is telling the truth and Trayvon had him pinned to the ground and was beating him, the teenager's body should have cuts or bruises consistent with that, she said."

I don't remember Bernie asking Gilbreath about GZ claiming TM was beating him with his fists. I do remember Bernie relating GZ's claims of the head-banging and that TM put his hands over his mouth and nose at some point and "smothering" him. Would TM's punching GZ's nose have left noticable marks on his hand?

Della

((The Booman described me as, let's see, "an impossibly stupid man" because...))

...because he clearly enjoys bearing false witness and thinks he profits by it, much like obese people think they profit from eating a dozen deep fried twinkies for a morning snack.

PJL

As much as I disagree with O'Mara not pushing the issue it could also be that has some of the mindset "I don't want to get the prosecutor angry..." I have seen that happen for two different reasons. First he may be angling for a deal and doesn't want to make waves. Or, second, he may be one of those defense attorneys who believes that you never anger prosecutors because they will have other cases with them. I had an attorney like that and had to fire him. I'm for aggressively pushing the envelope...

All that said let me caveat it with I don't know O'Mara and how he handles things. Just speculating based on experience.

jimmyk

Also from the Sentinel article:
"The funeral director who prepared Trayvon's body, Richard Kurtz, told the Orlando Sentinel he saw no such signs of a fight."

I can't imagine a funeral director's statements to be meaningful (or admissible), given that there was a medical examiner and autopsy. FD's aren't trained to do forensic examination of bodies for criminal investigations. As far as I know, the ME's report has not been released.

AliceH

"The rules of criminal procedure (Rule 3.330(b)) say discovery is required to be given fifteen days after the demand for discovery is served. Nothing in the rule pegs it to arraignment. It is irrelevant that he does not accept it today," Ponce told Local 6 Friday.

I was puzzled as to why cboldt posted link and excerpt of 3.220, when the article cited 3.330(b). Let's call it a typographical error in the article, because turns out 3.330 in Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure states, in its entirety:

3.330. Determination of Challenge for Cause

The court shall determine the validity of a challenge of an individual juror for cause. In making such determination the juror challenged and any other material witnesses, produced by the parties, may be examined on oath by either party. The court may consider also any other evidence material to such challenge.
DebinNC

Here's Bernie leading Gilbreath at the bail hearing on GZ's claims:
...........................................
And isn't it true that a lot of statements that he made do not make sense in terms of the injuries that he described. Did he not describe to the police that Mr. Martin had him on the ground and kept bashing his head on the concrete over and over and just physically beating him with his hands?

GILBREATH: He has said that, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that there is evidence that indicates that's not true?

GILBREATH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he also not state that at some point, he the defendant -- did he not state or claim that the victim in this case, Mr. Martin, put both hands one over his mouth and one over his nose so that he couldn't breathe?

GILBREATH: Yes.

GMax

Maguire wishes. His traffic is down.

So do tell us Dana, how is your traffic doing? I mean since you wish to criticize and hold up for inspection, lets do a comparison. In fact since no one visits your lame website and you would lose hands down, lets make it fairer. Lets compare the number of students that sign up for your lame @ss class that is advertised in writing as a guaranteed A to anyone enrolled, against the traffic here on any given day. We will leave you out of the statistics, cuz for some reason you kept disappearing. @sswipe.

TerryMann

"The funeral director who prepared Trayvon's body, Richard Kurtz, told the Orlando Sentinel he saw no such signs of a fight."

Remember, too, that Martin received CPR for at least several minutes at the scene and had had an autopsy by the time the funeral director saw the body. Both the CPR and the autopsy would make it impossible for the funeral director to say whether there were or weren't any "signs" of a fight on Martin's torso--a likely target for defensive punches.

Punching someone in the nose once wouldn't necessarily leave bruises, either.

Danube of Thought

The absence of bruises on Trayvon's hands (assuming there were none) doesn't seem terribly significant to me.

Frau Steingehirn

"Would TM's punching GZ's nose have left noticable marks on his hand?"

Where was the can of tea? Trayvon might have used it in his attack. The fact remains, only one was left with injuries.

Clarice

Any day now the left will claim GZ's broken nose and head wounds were the result of some kind of spontaneous generation.

MarkO

And, of course, if there are bruises on Trayvon's hands it can mean only that Trayvon was defending himself against the wild octoroon.

Some guy

Also from the Sentinel article:
"The funeral director who prepared Trayvon's body, Richard Kurtz, told the Orlando Sentinel he saw no such signs of a fight."

From the funeral director's website: "We are an independently family owned and operated business, serving the African-American community in South Florida for over five decades"

Business decision more than evidence.

Soylent Red

Any day now the left will claim GZ's broken nose and head wounds were the result of some kind of spontaneous generation.

Stigmata, proving that GZ is some kind of nutjob rightwing religionist!!11!1!1!11!

Probably a Mormon. Or Joo.

Clarice

And then there's the possibility that after profiling and stalking the kid wearing a hoodie who was nibbling on skittles and downing iced tea, he shot him in the back , then fired into the sky causing a unicorn to fall and break his nose and smash his head into the concrete.

Soylent Red

Yeah clarice. That's exactly what happened. Don't be such a flatearther Trayvon-denier

faketony

...what I like about here, no one makes or takes the back and forth personal...

Strawman Cometh

Bruising is the result of broken capillaries and blood pressure. TM's would be negligible.

Clarice

I read it on Mother Jones. It must be true.

MarkO

Unicorns can be dangerous.

Frau Essenwerferin

Wait for the next food fight, faketony, and duck.

Soylent Red

Frau:

Obama wants to know what things in that picture he is allowed to eat.

Bruce
As much as I disagree with O'Mara not pushing the issue it could also be that has some of the mindset "I don't want to get the prosecutor angry..." I have seen that happen for two different reasons. First he may be angling for a deal and doesn't want to make waves. Or, second, he may be one of those defense attorneys who believes that you never anger prosecutors because they will have other cases with them.
I don't think that is it, at all. Rather, I think that he is playing to the judge and to the public. The judge gets to deal with scum attorneys on a routine basis - not just criminal, and maybe primarily not criminal, but in civil cases as well.

In this case, the judge likely doesn't know either side's attorneys that well, and has to determine which ones are more credible. And, part of this is how they act in front of the court, and part is how they act in public. I think that the special prosecutor has overcharged, with an affidavit that intentionally ignores exonerating information, while using emotionally charged terms to describe equivocal evidence. So, I would expect that the judge sees this as a political prosecution.

Right now, defense counsel seems to be trying to portray himself as just the opposite - rational, civil, ethical, and honest, while still being extremely tough. Part of this is not playing gotcha discovery games, but rather, playing things straight and honest.

And, I think that we saw some of the results of this approach with the granting of a much lower bail.

We shall see.

MJW

I haven't found the specific section that correlates mandatory turnover to a defendant with mandatory making public.

I mentioned it in another thread. Under the definitions for public records, material that is turned over, or by law must be turned over, to the defense is excluded from being the type investigative material exempt from disclosure.

MJW

119.011 (c) “Criminal intelligence information” and “criminal investigative information” shall not include:
* * *
5. Documents given or required by law or agency rule to be given to the person arrested, except as provided in s. 119.071(2)(h), and, except that the court in a criminal case may order that certain information required by law or agency rule to be given to the person arrested be maintained in a confidential manner and exempt from the provisions of s. 119.07(1) until released at trial if it is found that the release of such information would:
a. Be defamatory to the good name of a victim or witness or would jeopardize the safety of such victim or witness; and
b. Impair the ability of a state attorney to locate or prosecute a codefendant.

PJL

@Bruce:

You may be entirely correct. As I said in my original post I do not know O'Mara or his methods. I was speaking from the experience of hiring the "top" attorney in the state and finding out nine months later that he never even filed a Discovery Motion. I am speaking from experience in interviewing many attorneys before I actually found one that embodied the sincerity and honesty that one would like in an attorney.

As an aside - it took almost nine years for me to be exonerated - and that after winning an appeal at the state supreme court level and having to wait further while the state petitioned SCOTUS on my case. They denied the state's petition.

I haven't covered the GZ/TM case anywhere near as extensively as was done here, and I can't do justice to the issues raised. At my meager blog I do write a little about Corey's "investigators" and their affidavit and what tripe actually passed for probable cause in this case. At some point I will tie that in with the specifics from my case relating to probable cause.

Jane

PJL,

What you went thru is inexcusable, however I would be surprised if a lawyer getting this much press scrutiny wasn't doing his job.

Bruce
What you went thru is inexcusable, however I would be surprised if a lawyer getting this much press scrutiny wasn't doing his job.
Agreed. This is much too high profile for defense counsel to slip this sort of thing by all of the lawyers looking over his shoulder.
Slartibartfast

Who knew, or cared, that the Booman Tribune idiot was still writing? Besides him, I mean.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Amazon

  • Lee Child, Kindle short story
  • Lee Child
  • Gary Taubes

Traffic

Wilson/Plame