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April 25, 2012

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Threadkiller

Ask Arpaio about the skill of media watchdogs.

Danube of Thought

I am very much loving how all of this is playing out.

Pee Cock.

Heh, NBC lawyers are nervous.
================

Clarice

I hope Dershowitz represents GZ in the civil litigation and that GZ ends up a very wealthy man. Another AA making good would be a nice ending to this story..
NBC
Corey
Crump
Sharpton
Jesse Jackson Jr

Step up to the loser's circle, ladies and gentlemen

Beasts of England

I guess the ellipsis in the transcript went unnoticed, too?

Beasts of England

Or on the Chyron?

GMax

3 outs still to get but Rangers up 7 - 3 on the Yanks at the moment. Joe Nathan has blown two saves already so there is still hope for the pinstripes.

GMax

Jeff Burnside should call Mary Mapes, she could use such a talent...

Jim Treacher

Gosh, we were all supposed to drop this, weren't we?

Whoops.

Danube of Thought

Rangers are fully loaded this year. Watch out, AL.

GMax

One Yankee down on strikes. Two to get.

GMax

Two down and 0 and 2 count,

GMax

pop out that's it. Robbie Ross, rookie phenom has now picked up his 4 win with no losses, all in relief.

Melinda Romanoff

kim-

New NOVA has fun with magnetogravitic waves, they just don't know it yet. New physics a'comin', I'll turn over the pole glass for you. The math is already written.

It's going to happen fast now.

Carol Herman

The goal was not achieved! This story, to have legs, would have started a race war! It didn't. And, Reuters did some real reporting today (Lucianne and Glenn Reynolds both provided links.) Seems George Zimmerman was doing a real job. In a "first time buyers" community, where prices dropped like a rock. And, renters began coming in ... and ROBBING PEOPLE! Zimmerman, himself, had a black kid who came up to his front porch and stole his bicycle.

A neighbor had two black kids entering through a screen door; as she and her baby ran upstairs and locked themselves in a bedroom. And, she called the police. Who did NOT come until the two thieves downstairs had "left."

The Internet reacted to this story in ways that tore NBC's ratings out from under them.

Did you know NBC worries about its ratings?

And, losing viewers is a big deal to them!

Why didn't this thing start a race war? PERHAPS BECAUSE THESE 250 town homes aren't IN the ghetto?

Where the Rodney King Riots exploded at Florence & Normandy. A neighborhood that did NOT see the supermarkets rebuilding. Probably did not see the Koreans coming back.

Also, among the lessons of the Rodney King Riots are the needs to have gunmen patrolling streets in order to keep out the riff raff that shows up in cars ... which they bring in order to loot merchandise.

The gun cabinets get unlocked.

Tom Maguire

I mocked the Rangers in the 90's, but I am not mocking them now. I have barely gotten accustomed to the Red Sox having good pitching and now this?

Mark in Florida

Reading the Reuters story something hit me that hadn't been mentioned anywhere. A neighbor lady says there had been burglaries by black youths there recently.

Any chance Martin might have been looking to commit a crime, if even for kicks? I know it's portrayed as an innocent trip to the store, but what better time to get away with some mischief? I don't suppose the police checked his room for stolen property.

Pofarmer

"Any chance Martin might have been looking to commit a crime, if even for kicks?"

Stolen goods in backpack at school, check.
Out in the rain for, what, over an hour? Check
Hiding under porches, check.

JorgXMcKie

Has it been demonstrated by evidence that Martin did actually go to a convenience store and buy anything? I keep hearing Arizona Tea and Skittles, but I never see that any of that shows up in a report or anything.

Not accusing him of anything, just asking, since that keeps popping up. And he couldn't have left at the half-time of the game because he was killed around the time it started, right?

Danube of Thought

There have been news reports that the 7-11 security cam showed a TM lookalike buying that stuff at about the right time. Not sure if it is in any police report.

AliceH

Gilbreath said they had the tapes from the 7-11.

Pofarmer

Nother question. Why stand around in the rain, in the dark, talking to hour girlfriend, when there is no one home but your 14 year old brother, and there is a game coming on you want to watch?

Sara

Was it his brother? I thought it was the son of Dad's girlfriend. No actual relation.

MJW

Has it been demonstrated by evidence that Martin did actually go to a convenience store and buy anything? I keep hearing Arizona Tea and Skittles, but I never see that any of that shows up in a report or anything.

The police detective in the bond hearing testified that Martin did purchase the Skittles and iced tea at the 7-11.

MJW

Oops, I see AliceH already mentioned that.

MJW

Nother question. Why stand around in the rain, in the dark, talking to your girlfriend, when there is no one home but your 14 year old brother, and there is a game coming on you want to watch?

The big question -- for which we don't yet know the answer -- is, how long was it between when he left the store and when he was shot?

daddy

If you haven't seen this video of an EPA Official describing his philosophy of how to enforce EPA Regulations, you should at least read this paragraph:

"I was in a meeting once and I gave an analogy to my staff about my philosophy of enforcement," Armendariz said during a meeting in 2010. "It's kind of like how the Romans used to conquer little villages in the Mediterranean: they’d go into little Turkish towns somewhere, they’d find the first five guys they’d run into, and they’d crucify them and then, you know, that town was really easy to manage over the next few years."

It is obvious that this EPA Official has no room in his mindset for something called "a citizen." Unfortunately, in this Administration, he's not alone.

Micha Elyi

To his record of dubious accomplishments, Al Armendariz can ignornace of history. When the Romans were expanding their empire around the Mediterranean they did not encounter "little Turkish towns".

The Turks did not migrate to the Middle East until the 10th century, long after the western portion of the Roman Empire had fallen and the eastern portion (the Byzantines) had been retreating under pressure from constant Muslim jihad attacks since the 7th century.

cboldt

-- The big question -- for which we don't yet know the answer -- is, how long was it between when he left the store and when he was shot? --


I'm thinking we may find out soon. O'Mara asked to have the court filings sealed out of concern for disclosing witness names. None of the unsealed materials are in the nature of a witness report or police investigation, that might contain a witness name. The Court has a hearing tomorrow at 9:00 am to review the media request to make the entire court file public; and O'Mara and Corey have provided input to the court, so there is a team of three (O'Mara, Corey, and Lester) doing redacting in advance of tomorrow's hearing.


Of course, the file doesn't represent the entire case, and it may have just DeeDee's sworn statement since the other investigatory material tends to justify Zimmerman's action.

Westie

Reminds me of the Duke Lacrosse case....how much did the mis-accused students collect from Duke U?

Johnny Quest

Nother question. Why stand around in the rain, in the dark, talking to your girlfriend, when there is no one home but your 14 year old brother, and there is a game coming on you want to watch?


Not his brother. Not his house. His Dad visited his girlfriend every weekend. He brought Trayvon along this weekend. It was drizzling on and off so the it's not like he was out in the perfect storm. The gane started at 7:30 I believe so meandering around, killing time, talking to a friend from back home, before returning to an unfamiliar place, seems like a reason to dawdle.


If I spend too much time perusing the magazines at Tar-Jay the security guy (who looks like the fat kid in SUPERBAD appears at the rack and starts pretendin)g to
straighten the periodicals. Apparently I fit a profile.

MJW

It was drizzling on and off so the it's not like he was out in the perfect storm. The gane started at 7:30 I believe so meandering around, killing time, talking to a friend from back home, before returning to an unfamiliar place, seems like a reason to dawdle.

That's not an unreasonable explanation, but it seems somewhat in conflict with the notion that Trayvon was ducking under eves to escape the downpour -- which is itself a not unreasonable explanation for otherwise very suspicious behavior.

MJW

ducking under eaves to escape the downpour

MJW

The Court has a hearing tomorrow at 9:00 am to review the media request to make the entire court file public;

My understanding -- which could certainly be wrong -- is that the entire court file has been released, but it doesn't yet contain most of the police file. Tomorrow is the due date for discovery to be turned over to the defense, and I believe at that point most of the police material will then be included in the court file, and subject to public disclosure.

Clarice

Johnny Q, apparently the guards are told not to let people hang around the mags for too long because that means they are reading them for free.

MJW

Johnny Q, apparently the guards are told not to let people hang around the mags for too long because that means they are reading them for free.

"This isn't a library!" I admit I heard that a few times when I was a kid.

Wapsipinicon of thought

The news footage of that night does not show any rain.It must have stopped by then. The police feeling GZ's jacket that night would be of no use if it was raining that hard. He would have been soaked. The staying out of the rain story came from Crump.Who said TM was ducking under eaves?
That I believe was speculation from Tom Maguire guessing what TM did to catch GZ's attention. It was a theory.
GZ seems to describe TM looking at the houses but doesn't mention TM being that close to the eaves.After he ran he probably was that close to a house for awhile.It doesn't look like there are sidewalks along the street so TM did walk on the grass.I get the impression GZ and Tm were pretty close to each other for a time. The police leaks say GZ described TM circling the truck.

DebinNC

Front of GZ's house, and I think I read they're all the same. The "shelter from the rain" excuse seems bogus, and TM flitting from one enclosed patio to another in the rear would really look suspicious.

MJW

That I believe was speculation from Tom Maguire guessing what TM did to catch GZ's attention. It was a theory.

Well, I said: "...but it seems somewhat in conflict with the notion that Trayvon was ducking under eves to escape the downpour." Webster's 9th Collegiate Dictionary defines "notion" as: "(3) a theory or belief held by a person or group."

cboldt

-- My understanding -- which could certainly be wrong -- is that the entire court file has been released, but it doesn't yet contain most of the police file. Tomorrow is the due date for discovery to be turned over to the defense, and I believe at that point most of the police material will then be included in the court file, and subject to public disclosure. --


Could be. I just figured that Corey filed parts of her investigation (statements of DeeDee and Cutcher, for example) to support the charging affidavit, because O'Mara requested on April 12 to seal the file. What we've seen so far contains no witness ID material. So I'm thinking that not the entirety of what is in the Court's hands as of April 12 has been released. There was also discussion between Lester, O'Mara and de la Rionda as to review of the file so all would agree witness ID had been suitably protected before release.


I'm inclined that the totality of discovery material does not automatically become part of the Court file. The information flows between parties, pretrial. Some parts of it may come in to pretrial hearings or trial proceedings.

AliceH

I'm inclined that the totality of discovery material does not automatically become part of the Court file.

I don't see how it COULD be, since there must be evidence the prosecution has which the defense may successfully have excluded. That would seem to require the defense have the evidence thru discovery (how else to move to exclude it?), and if it can't be introduced at trial, it makes no sense to allow it to be made part of the Court file - which is public. At least, so it seems to me.

cboldt

-- I don't see how it COULD be, since there must be evidence the prosecution has which the defense may successfully have excluded. --


That material usually appears in pretrial motions. But, the same principle applies - until there is a motion or other activity before the court, the material isn't in the court's file. It may be in the files of the parties (which as far as evidence goes, should be close to identical), but it's not yet public, and may never become public.


The police investigation is subject to a public records request, outside of the trial process. A criterion for public access to police investigatory material is that the investigation not be active.

MJW

Cboldt, though discovery material isn't part of the court record, public records must generally be made public if they're given to the defense:

(c) “Criminal intelligence information” and “criminal investigative information” shall not include:

1. The time, date, location, and nature of a reported crime.

2. The name, sex, age, and address of a person arrested or of the victim of a crime except as provided in s. 119.071(2)(h).

3. The time, date, and location of the incident and of the arrest.

4. The crime charged.

5. Documents given or required by law or agency rule to be given to the person arrested, except as provided in s. 119.071(2)(h), and, except that the court in a criminal case may order that certain information required by law or agency rule to be given to the person arrested be maintained in a confidential manner and exempt from the provisions of s. 119.07(1) until released at trial if it is found that the release of such information would:
a. Be defamatory to the good name of a victim or witness or would jeopardize the safety of such victim or witness; and
b. Impair the ability of a state attorney to locate or prosecute a codefendant.

6. Informations and indictments except as provided in s. 905.26.


There are, as you can see, exceptions.

The issue is discussed by the Florida Supreme court in Florida Freedom Newspapers v. McCrary.

MJW

In my previous comment, I forgot to mention the statute, which is 119.011.

MJW

119.071(2)(h) is quite lengthy, but as far as I can see, there's little in the records that would be turned over to the defense that couldn't be made public with redactions of names, addresses, etc.

MJW

A criterion for public access to police investigatory material is that the investigation not be active.

The Florida statute I just mentioned clearly takes the very sensible view that accept when possible co-defendants are involved, there's no reason to consider materials given to the defendant "active," since the purpose of maintaining the confidentiality of active investigative material is to keep them from the defendant.

MJW

...that except when...

For some reason, errors are invisible to me until I press "Post."

The adiabattiness lapse.

::grin::, happens to me all the time. I think the mechanism is that before posting you see the comment as you see it, and after posting you see the comment as others see it. Navier Stokes explains it all.
===========================

cboldt

Yes - I figure the investigatory material is available, and suggested some time ago that the press could get the SPD investigation via public records request.


No matter, Lester wants it available except for witness identifying material.


And in this case, that too is upside down. The witnesses FOR defendant are the ones being protected. And the police report cuts in favor of the defendant. Odd case, all around, and the oddity is at Corey's hands.

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