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April 25, 2012

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Caspar Weinburger

The more I learn about George, the more I realise that Team Skittles, Sharpton and Jackson couldn't have chosen a worse person to accuse of racism.
And so much for that 'George carried a gun because he couldn't be a real cop' meme. That one has died an ugly death.

cboldt

There had been another shooting in the same gated community. We don't hear much about that one, and I don't know when or what that was about.


But yeah, mostly about burglaries and even a hot breakin. They always get away. Racist.

A thousand and one tales.

I hope the nation gets a huge lesson about narratives.
==========

cboldt

Wait 'til the press throws Corey under the bus. That'll be a sight to behold.

Danube of Thought

More horrible news for the buubmeister.

Sara

My daughter called from Orlando alittle while ago to report that last night she was out with some friends, one of whom lives in Sanford. She wanted to tell me that this guy is really ticked off at how his community is being portrayed by the race baiters. She said he is organizing Sanford residents to be on call if the Sharpton/Jackson mob tries to start anything again as a result of any aspect of the GZ case. Her report: "He is pissed royally."

AliceH

You're being too rational. To some, it will be all too obvious the Koch brothers have gotten to Reuters.

Danube of Thought

Somebody should inform Al and Jesse that George Zimmerman is as black as Homer Plessy was (h/tip MarkO).

iqvoice

AliceH: Heh!

If Al & Jesse held a press conference to declare that 2+2=4, it would undermine 10,000 years worth of math theory.

boatbuilder

New meme--racist dog hater.

Bob

The media walk back has begun. No Pulitzer for the misreporting and Crump stenography but there might be one for the clean up. What a mess. I still think the walk back is CYA ordered by the corporate media legal staff to hedge against libel suits.

Rob Crawford

I still think the walk back is CYA ordered by the corporate media legal staff to hedge against libel suits.

Maybe -- but this is SOP for the press. Push the lies loudly, then whisper the corrections.

matt

If that neighbor is put on the stand and so testifies, or if the police testify that there had been African American teenagers identified as burglars in the neighborhood, the case is toast, as is the DA.

Jack is Back!

As I noted when this all started, I have an investment condo that is in a similar community that is mostly rented by absentee landlords or other type of owners. It is a great gated townhouse, condo community on the ICW. But it is also struggling with maintenance costs. So, it has eliminated the security person at the front gate to clear non-residents in. Now all you need is either a transonder or gate code for the key punch. Lots of drug activity, police call outs, burgalries and trespassing. But they don't have a neighborhood watch program but rely on the Sheriff to show up and stop the crime.

Talking to my renter, he has gone through CWP training as has several more of his neighbors. More and more people there are armed. Probably a good thing. Sooner or later the realization of personal security hits you square in the jaw and you do what you have to do.

"Jorge" is only one example of getting the message. Trayvon never got the message or chose to ignore it being the NO-LIMIT-NIGGA playing the Knockout Game while suspended for ..... stealing, burgalry and a cold kocking a school bus drive much to the applause and gratitutd of his twitter feed.

When do we get the sob story of St. Trayvon?

Danube of Thought

"You guys seem to think this is exculpatory."

To the extent it rebuts the notion of a depraved heart it is precisely that.

xbradtc

A newspaper article is hardly exculpatory. But the statements from the neighbors in the article certainly cut against the grain of earlier narrative from the press and Crump, et al.

Amazingly, however, Ben F. managed to disregard those parts of the article and zoom in on the part of the article where the reporter puts his own spin into play.

El Bango

"Moments later, Martin lay dead with a bullet in his chest"...right after violently attacking GZ and giving him a broken nose and busted skull. GZ saved his own life that night, and probably the lives of many others in the future.

Wot's Up With That?

OK, DoT responds to a comment before it is made.
====================

Rob Crawford

Funny how a certain moron missed the whole argument over what Murder 2 means...

Rob Crawford

OK, DoT responds to a comment before it is made.

Likely the troll is re-posting after he's retro-moderated.

John Hansen

Here's a hypothetical to consider. What would the news story have been if GZ had not had a gun?

Jack is Back!

BF,

You have no evidence whatsoever that Zimmerman disregarded the dispatcher's advice. Pure conjecture on Reuter's part and yours. In fact, the State has already conceded they have no evidence that GZ pursued Martin.

But I will concede that you have a narrative and by God you and your ilk are going to stay with come hell or high water.

Ignatz

-- But, you're all so jiggy about 'facts'...--

'Facts' like this one?;
he disregarded police advice against pursuing Martin

Threadkiller

Identity neighbors...

Jack is Back!

Is there a chance we can also keep my 2nd Amendment principle's intact?

cboldt

-- Is there a chance we can also keep my 2nd Amendment principle's intact? --


Not in NJ, NY, MA, IL and a few other states.

Rob Crawford

What would the news story have been if GZ had not had a gun?

A local news story about a man assaulted by an unknown subject -- if Zimmerman were lucky. A local story about an unsolved murder, if not.

Tom Maguire

In a 'bending over backwards' moment of fairness, let me tepidly defend Reuters on this:

The last time Zimmerman had called police, to report Burgess, he followed protocol and waited for police to arrive. They were too late, and Burgess got away.

This time, Zimmerman was not so patient, and he disregarded police advice against pursuing Martin.

One can argue (as I have) that GZim did not disregard the dispatchers advice that night.

However, he did disregard generic standing instructions to neighborhood watchers everywhere when he got out of the car. They use the word "protocol" to cover that.

Obviously, that is not illegal. But Reuters stayed close to the line and arguably got both feet down inside the line. This argument would be stronger if they had written something more general such as "he disregarded police advice against pursuing [any suspect] Martin."

GMax

Boy you can learn a lot from Dana Ward. For example, did you know that the 1st amendment extends to private blogs on the internet? Silly me, I thought it was to keep the Federal government from abridging freedom of speech and freedom of assembly.

boatbuilder

The "black boys robbing the neighborhood" remark by the neighbor actually supports the "profiling" allegation, in an odd way. But I don't think that the jury, or the public, will see it that way. Only the TSA thinks it's* wrong to be suspicious of a person because he looks and acts a lot like the criminals who committed the types of crimes you are trying to prevent.

*Does that work, NK?

Ben Franklin

I've got to swallow my meds now. One is a suppository so I will need to take a short break while I shove my head back up my ass.

narciso

I'm struck about how far back his mischief
and/malfeasance goes back;

Bernard Goetz shot four African-American men on a New York subway train on December 22, 1984, when they approached him and allegedly tried to rob him. At his trial Goetz was cleared of all charges except criminal possession of a weapon. Sharpton led several marches protesting what he saw as the weak prosecution of the case.[21]

Sharpton and other civil rights leaders said Goetz's actions were racist and requested a federal civil rights investigation.[22] A federal investigation concluded the shooting was due to an attempted robbery and not race.[23]

He never accepts than anything can be a mistake, except his own actions, which are
more often airbrushed by too many personages

Rick Ballard

"However, he did disregard generic standing instructions to neighborhood watchers everywhere when he got out of the car."

In a neighborhood that had recently suffered a hot burglary with a resident scared out of her mind and the police only minutes away. Zimmerman would then be just like his very cautious neighbors, listening to him scream for help for over a minute as they cowered in their homes.

God save me from quivering profiles in courage who believe they have done their entire duty by dialing 911.

Rob Crawford

Lordy, Dana sure is working himself into a froth.

Ignatz

--This argument would be stronger if they had written something more general such as "he disregarded police advice against pursuing [any suspect] Martin.--

And it would be even stronger if they identified the suggestion as coming from a dispatcher rather than "police".

Cecil Turner

And it's vastly entertaining.

centralcal

I love that all afternoon Drudge has had the boyish photo of George Zimmerman up - looking very angelic and "trayvonish" (as the media portrayed Trayvon).

Rob Crawford

MAKE ME THE MODERATOR, ASSWIPE@!!!

Clearly a graduate of "How to Win Friends and Influence People".

centralcal

Poof! I am so appreciating this.

narciso
Rob Crawford

Looks like the downers kicked in...

Clarice

So, at last the press has caught on that GZ was a hero.How long will it take until this story makes it down to the ill informed--the bubus and Kukus and dudas and the like?

daddy

OT,

Cool, but may be getting some publicity on returning a soccer ball (Wilson) to some teenager in Japan. Will keep you posted.

It is funny to call the ADN Newspaper, and to talk to various people at the paper, none of whom had heard about the story in the ADN, and having to slowly walk them through how to bring up the ADN on their computers and locate the story from yesterday, after which they finally go, "Wow, that's cool. You're not nuts. Okay, let me see who I can pass you on up too."

Off with the dogs. Later.

Prophylactic Pups.

'the bubus and the Kukus and the dudas and the like
Were stumbling through the narrative when a fact showed up.
=================

Tom Maguire

I think I would have gotten out of the car to check out the neighborhood, but breaking in on the shouting match between GZim and Martin?

Maybe shouting at them from twenty yards away (or through a window? Then they know where I live) but I would just hate to come between a drug dealer and an unsatisfied customer.

GMax

Very hard to penetrate that level of density, Clarice. But the average ill informed Joe and Jill Lunchpail will start to see the truth now, its going to be impossible to skittles coat this any longer.

narciso

So, it's the same problem with the Times, even Times writers don't read their own paper.

cboldt

-- I would just hate to come between a drug dealer and an unsatisfied customer. --


I presume some of the neighbors recognized Zimmerman, but maybe not. I'd not be unlikely to come to the aid of a neighbor, even at some personal risk.


OTOH, I learned long ago to not get involved in a fight between strangers. Especially not if itz a catfight.

Jack is Back!

Speaking of being spot on:

"How could this have happened? How could Obama be rewarded for his dereliction of duty, for his pillaging of the public treasury, subversion of the work ethic in favor of leisure class sloth, and for enriching the already rich at the expense of the working class? There are many answers including corporate control of media, the intimidation of independent reporters, the brazen manipulation of fears of terrorism, the suppression of information, corruption, and our insularity from the rest of the world. Some responsibility falls on McCain's shoulders for being too timid in his criticism of Obama, for not responding to the "flip flop" charge by pointing out that the biggest flip flopper in this campaign was the candidate who promised hope and change middle of the road populism and gave us 19th century corporate cronyism, who promised to be a uniter and produced the deepest divisions in American society in at least a generation, who promised not to be tempted by promoting American Exceptionalism and set about the demolition of the Middle East in pursuit of a quixotic mission to re-make the area in the image of his Father's dreams of a demised Western influence. But unfortunately, most of the responsibility is our own. As educators we have failed, as citizens we have failed, in our most fundamental responsibility, to speak truth to power."

Guess who? Names changed to protect the innocents and expose the guilty.

Ben Franklin

OK, I've got my head out of my ass now (I used to hate that gray but I just wash it away).

I was calling someone an idiot - who?

Tom Maguire
I presume some of the neighbors recognized Zimmerman...

In the dark and flat on his back?

'John' didn't seem to recognize him. And I guess his shadow isn't distinctively identifiable.

And there was that one guy looking out his window with his wife hollering at him to get away from it.

I'd like to think I would have done something useful, but I am not so sure.

Rob Crawford

How long will it take until this story makes it down to the ill informed--the bubus and Kukus and dudas and the like?

You mean the type of people who still think Sacco and Vanzetti were innocent? That think the Haymarket Bomb was a frame-up? That think the Rosenbergs were innocent? Who think Bush lied about Saddam's WMD? Who think Mumia is a political prisoner?

Rick Ballard

TM,

Listen to the 911 call with the shot on it. Someone screaming for help doesn't constitute a shouting match and witness "John's" hollering that he was going to call the cops didn't have the outcome that he was hoping for.

I wouldn't interfere in a sour drug deal but I wouldn't expect screams for help from a dealer or customer, either.

cboldt

NBC6 Zimmerman Edit Explanation - April 25

On March 19 NBC6 ran a story on the phone call George Zimmerman made in connection with the Trayvon Martin case. In that story an error in editorial judgment was made in which a question from the operator was deleted which could have created the impression that Mr. Zimmerman’s statement may have been singling out Trayvon Martin because of his race.
Well, that's a step up from "mistakes were made."
Ignatz

An error in editorial judgment ensued.

henry

Funny story, 74% of jobs lost were government. Plus the Feds say the unemoyment rate went down. Lies, damn lies & statistics...

My property tax bill did not go up (first time since I got to WI). A fact.

Dana, stay away from sharp objects in June.

Redbrow

Crump suffering from confirmation bias:

This just verifies that Zimmerman bought the gun to hunt boi down like a dog!

Frau Steingehirn

The impact of the report has been weakened because it took so long to be make it public. Now it looks like an excuse. The comments show that a percentage still buy the original "truth."

Threadkiller

The Bens

Danube of Thought

Some disillusioned leftist crank would be my guess, JiB. Not exactly a Nader or Van den Heuvel rant, but in that neighborhood. Not anyone in elective office.

The phrase "speak truth to power" identifies the author as a priggish, self-righteous fool.

Am I close?

cboldt

-- In the dark and flat on his back? --


By his voice maybe. I don't know how well known George is/was to the neighbors, and I'm not sure John doesn't know him, even if John doesn't recognize him.


Zimmerman seemed surprised or taken aback that nobody came to his aid, is where I get the impression that some of the neighbors might have recognized him.


Just saying, I wouldn't be so sure that all the witnesses thought it might be something like two thugs having it out; drug deal gone bade, etc.

Frau Lokus

The Bens = coming up too fast from deep inside the cloaca maxima.

Rick Ballard

He was surprised because he would have responded. Kinda like he responded to the need for a Neighborhood Watch to be instituted. Not everyone will cede property or territory to thieves and thugs just because the "safe" thing to do is dial 911 and huddle in the dark.

henry

Dana, whichever "Ben" went "poof". Of course it was confusing, Gov's numbers don't mean much until the adjustment cycle is complete.

narciso

Apparently, it comes from a Nor Luap blog

narciso

However it was 'cribbed' from this;

http://www.pitzer.edu/spotlight/04-05_
academic_year/2004-11 election2004_articles.
asp

Ignatz

--No one said anything about 'a depraved heart.--

Mrs. Corey did when she charged Zimmerman with murder 2 which is what it would rebut.
Unless you're hanging your hat on 'heart' vs 'mind'.

Kathy Kattenburg

"If that neighbor is put on the stand and so testifies, or if the police testify that there had been African American teenagers identified as burglars in the neighborhood, the case is toast, as is the DA."

Why would other African American teenagers identified as burglars mean that George Zimmerman's shooting of Trayvon Martin was justified? If that argument was made in court, I think the prosecution would dispose of it pretty quickly. The legitimacy of Zimmerman's self-defense claim depends on whether the person in front of him -- Trayvon Martin -- was trying to kill him, not on whether other African American teenagers had committed burglaries. I mean, you just cannot argue that. It's not a legitimate argument.

cboldt

George Zimmerman is pictured making a pizza in a home economics class at Osbourn High School in Manassas, Virginia


Photo accompanying the Reuters article. Good 400 pounder, pushing 8 foot tall man, very scary.

Danube of Thought

I suppose we could begin and end with Wikipedia, which is generally as far as you have to go with this stupid shit:

"Depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is an American legal term for an action that demonstrates a 'callous disregard for human life' and results in death. In most states, depraved heart killings constitute second-degree murder."

Beasts of England

Ignatz@8:24 - 'An error in editorial judgment ensued.'

Love it...

Donald

I'm no lawyer, but you're a pretty dim bulb there Kathy.


I'll let the lawyers do the evisceration.

Jane

We now have the bookends of the Obama presidency. It began with the Cambridge Police acting stupidly, and will end with "If I had a son he would look like Trayvon".

His wisdom fully on display.

Rick Ballard

I'm amazed at the cunning shown by the hulking brute, Zimmerman, going back as far as posing as an altar boy for ten years in order to disguise his telltale heart.

William Teach

I'm wondering how long it will take the MSM to highlight the gang activities within the Sanford area. These range anywhere from real gangs to association gangs, like the group of girls who "brutally beat a teenager in a laundromat" (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/sanford-teen-beaten-by-gang-of-girls-at-82883.html)

And, we have the Central Florida Dream Center reporting "Out of the 11 areas of poverty located in Seminole County Florida, nine can be found in Sanford Florida. These sections of the city are plagued by crime, drugs, gangs, domestic violence, child abuse, rape, AIDS, poor health, illiteracy and many other dire situations."

The only reason there aren't major gangs like MS-13, East Coast Crips, Latin Kings, Black Guerrilla Family, etc, is because Sanford is in the ass end of nowhere.

Clarice

KK, Do you really suppose anyone was making that argument ? Honestly? How full of it can a person be and still breathe?

Danube of Thought

"Why would other African American teenagers identified as burglars mean that George Zimmerman's shooting of Trayvon Martin was justified?"

What justifies the shooting is the fact that he had had his nose broken and was on his back with his head being bashed against the sidewalk, and was in reasonable fear that the violent felony that was already being committed upon him would continue.

What is justified by Martin's status was an increased suspicion that he was up to no good. Zimmerman--an African-American himself--could more reasonably suspect that an unknown African-American prowling the neighborhood was more likely than, say, a teenage white girl to be one of the burglars that had been terrorizing his neighbors.

Rick Ballard

Clarice,

Careful. She's gonna take that as a request for a demonstration.

cboldt

-- I'm wondering how long it will take the MSM to highlight the gang activities within the Sanford area. --


Big Oxycodone outlet too. DEA came down on a local pharmacy for something like a 500x "normal" volume. Customers would ask for the desired brand using the street slang terms.


High crime rate, even by Florida standards.

GMax

Ask KK if profiling is wrong. I am sure she thinks its absolutely horrible.

Ignatz

--Well Ig, Danyooob is exacting with me, so I am exacting with Danyooob. Does that seem fair?--

But once you get past that inconsequential point you're wrong.

Rob Crawford

I mean, you just cannot argue that. It's not a legitimate argument.

KK, we'll cede to you the mastery of the illegitimate argument.

(You really don't understand what's being discussed, do you?)

Sara

You mean the fake Ben is not GMAX. Could have fooled me.

DebinNC

I bet the property/violent crime stats in Sanford are way lower than those in Miami Gardens where Trayvon spent his entire life.

fdcol63

Someone needs their meds.

Danube of Thought

More:

"JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- George Zimmerman is in custody in Florida and will be charged with second-degree murder in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, authorities announced Wednesday. His attorney said he would plead not guilty.

"'Essentially she's saying he had the intent to do something that was so dangerous to Trayvon Martin, he would know he would be killed,' said Janet Johnson, Jacksonville criminal defense attorney.

"'Second-degree murder is also called murder with a depraved heart,' Johnson explained. 'Basically, doing something so depraved that you would know someone's life would be at risk, but you acted anyway.'"

Are we ready to move on from this fool's latest pratfall, or do we want more?

Threadkiller

The Kats

Beasts of England

Afro-Peruvian? Curiouser and curiouser.

Ignatz

--"would continue" supposition without supporting evidence.--

I'd say the dead body of Martin constitutes considerable supporting evidence that Zim believed it would continue.

Tom Maguire

I just read that NBC6 "explanation" - are they kidding me?

Let's start with "What story are they talking about - on air, on website, or both?"

Then, what about the March 20 website stuff?

What about the re-edits that disappeared the problem on April 9 with no "explanation" - are they still investigating that? Or did it take them another two weeks to realize they had made the corrections silently?

How does this connect to the Today Show - they can't be pretending it is a coincidence, so where did the bad edit originate?

I don't think even KK would be fooled by this explanation.

Trampling through the vineyards.

John Brown could spell Osawatomie.
==============

GMax

NO really, I am certain KK and the douchebag from Pitzer think Zimmerman shot Martin cuz he would not share his skittles.

narciso

Does the truth matter anymore, two months later, they finally get around to the facts
of the case, but it's a little late, because
the poison is already in the bloodstream,
For years to come, Zimmerman is marked by the scarlet M of the 'Drive By Media.

This situation eerily parallels the Goetz one,a quarter century ago, and Bonfire, there was no malice, just a tragic intersection between two people, but the wolfpack feeds just the same. What is the proper punishment for Burnside, who so cavalierly 'libeled' Zimmerman.

Rob Crawford

Question -- was the bint I traded twitters with from NBC6? Because she claimed it was all the network's doing.

narciso

That's kind of an indelicate way to put, it,
Rob, but yes, that is her.

Danube of Thought

Still more, this time from WebLaw:

"Under F.S.A. § 782.04 (2), second degree murder is:

"(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

"Fla. Stat. Ann. § 782.04 (West).

"In some jurisdictions, this is know as the depraved-heart murder."

Ignatz

--The legitimacy of Zimmerman's self-defense claim depends on whether the person in front of him -- Trayvon Martin -- was trying to kill him, not on whether other African American teenagers had committed burglaries.--

If that is the sole issue, Kathy, and none of what has occurred in the past with black teenagers or Zimmerman has any bearing on this case why have you and buub and others cluttered up this place for a month with nonsensical arguments about innocent little boys just chompin on some Skittles and racism and lynchings and cold blooded murder and wannabe cops who weigh 250 pounds and who didn't have a single injury to show for his troubles?

Danube of Thought

I want KK to tell us whether George Zimmerman is an African-American.

Next I want her to tell us whether Homer Plessy was an African-American.

Finally, tell os whether Barck Obama is an African-American.

Please explain each of your three answers, KK.

The comments to this entry are closed.

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