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May 17, 2012

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cboldt

That little lesbian pixie, Cutcher!

cboldt

9beers@fark.com - March 27

This chick is totally unreliable but totally hot. Call me, Mary, you sexy little lesbian pixie.

I don't think Cutcher is the unconsolable, long-winded 911 caller. But she was a named witness on CNN, later presented a "new and anonymous" witness by the same CNN people.

Danube of Thought

Minus 16 at Raz today.

Trails Romney by 1.

AliceH

Jeralyn included this aside in one of her comments:


I had never even seen a video conferencing spaceship until today. It was humongous and it was in our only conference room open to meet with my client. We had been talking for about 1/2 hour, very privileged things, when we started hearing noises coming from it. Then I heard a women say from nowhere inside this machine that she wanted to know why we were talking. Totally flipped me out. Then she told me she was with a search firm in Stamford CT and could see me and my clients as well as hear us. I was really freaked by then and it took me 20 minutes to find the office manager to come in get it turned off. That's the danger with some of this high-tech gear --you never know when its on silently and someone can hear you, same for your phone. When we got up to leave a half hour later, music started playing. It was coming from my i{ad which I hadn't turned on. Took me a few hours to shake the feeling that BB was following me around today.

I'm going to start keeping the power off all my gizmos for a while. The idea that some lady in CT can listen in on my attorney-client meeing without me knowing was just spooky.

Wow. I don't even know what a "video conferencing spaceship" is, but I will definitely stay away from them!

cboldt

-- I don't even know what a "video conferencing spaceship" is --

I think it's like a conference room phone/microphone, but also includes video camera and video display. Connection is made via network, not the "landline" typically associated with phone calls.

DebinNC

I'm interested in the police report of the 13 yr. old witness who reportedly initially claimed the guy on the bottom was wearing a red shirt and yelling, but changed his story once the Crump Circus came to town.

MarkO

Eyewitness testimony, even if uncontaminated by television and time, is notoriously unreliable. Elizabeth Loftus wrote a book on the subject, "Eyewitness Testimony." I recommend it to anyone with an interest in the value of such testimony.

myiq2xu

For a "different" point of view, check out Buffoon Juice:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/05/16/this-changes-what/

GMAX

I would urge anyone that does not want to lose their lunch to avoid Balloon Juice, both its proprietor and the commenters are looney toons on steroids. Nothing good can come from a visit there.

AliceH

My faith in eyewitness testimony has always been very low, but I tend to be very impressed by "America's Most Wanted" type stories, where someone actually DOES recognize a stranger in real life based on news photographs. In the Elizabeth Smart case, I seem to recall someone spotted her based on just her eyes (she was wearing a burka or something).

So - it's not nothing. It's just more something when there is corroboration to substantiate reliability of both the witness and their testimony.

myiq2xu

Buffoon Juicers smoke Koolaid in a crack pipe.

AliceH

I probably wouldn't have clicked your link, myiq, except Gmax's challenge not to pushed my contrariness button.

I was underwhelmed, to be honest. What with the casual recategorization of selected memes as "facts" and complete ignorance of SYG and other legal things - it was pretty much the same as reading KK comments here.

BTW - I got a chuckle out of your Obamandias post.

Clarice

I don't know how Elizabeth Smart escaped detection all that time in Salt Lake City--it must be full of the dumbest cops in the world. And blindest citizens.

As for whacky reportage catch this carp from the NY Post on the tragedy of the Kennedys:

"Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s estranged wife, Mary, who battled her husband’s rumored philandering by turning to alcohol and prescription drugs, hanged herself in a barn on their Westchester estate yesterday, sources told The Post. The 52-year-old mother of four — the latest victim of a family dynasty cursed with tragedies "


People who endanger themselves and others by selfish, reckless behavior are not cured with
tragedy" when the ineitable happens..

MarkO

I think that Elizabeth Smart was in California for a large portion of her kidnapping. But, wherever she was, she was required to wear a veil.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/smart/smart11.html

rse

LUN is a revolting interview with Chris Mooney Britannica did on what is wrong with the Conservative/Republican brain. He does use the terms interchangeably.

And basically makes an unscientific case but pretends he is being scientific.

Plus he sets up a strawman for the insecure. You are presumed to be a dolt if you do not hold his positions.

Ridiculous twerp.

Clarice

Ahem "cursed with tragedy"

Veil or not, she was the right age with white white skin and blue eyes and blonde hair and in the company of a man and woman who looked obviously insane.

henry

rse, as you document so well it is the left who are afraid -- afraid of anyone learning anything for themselves.

Matthew Butch

@GMAX I should have listened to you. How can people live in such ignorance. Hell, there was one commenter who said that a 9mm isn't a high powered pistol round!

fdcol63

" ... Hell, there was one commenter who said that a 9mm isn't a high powered pistol round! ..."

Let him stand in front of one to find out.

Applled

The Baloon Juice posting linked above challenges the idea that Trayvon Martin's bruised knuckles changes anything. So far, so good, I tend to agree with that. We know there was a fight, and we know Zimmerman got well and truly pummeled. There is a pretty good consensus there, among thoose still paying attention. (The image of the hulking 250 lb brute towering over the 12 year old pixie is going to remain fully embedded in minds that have not been keeping up.) But then, the Baloon guy let's forth with some foreceful, um, Helium, intermixed with some valid points...:

None of this new information changes the basic facts, which are that if Zimmerman hadn’t violated Neighborhood Watch rules and confronted Trayvon, and if Zimmerman hadn’t decided Trayvon was a threat simply because he was a black kid in the neighborhood, and if Zimmerman hadn’t been carrying a gun (again, against the Neighborhood Watch rules), Trayvon Martin would be alive today. I’d bet even the authors of the Stand Your Ground bill that makes this so legally murky never intended for people to accost someone, then, when losing the fight, pull out a pistol and shoot them. Even the NRA and ALEC aren’t that stupid.

Can you get ruled out of order for assuming facts not in evidence for a blogpost? More to the point, is there much support for the following propositions:

1. Zimmerman decided Trayvon was a threat because he was black.

2. The Stand Your Ground laws have any bearing to this case.

3. Violating Neighborhood Watch Guidelines means you are committing 2nd Degree murder.

But one I would propose here -- Zimmerman carrying a gun does not seem like it was a very good idea. It probably DID encourage him to follow Martin, instead of hang back and let the cops handle the situation.

Threadkiller

"Hundreds of millions of dollars meant to provide a little relief to the nation's struggling homeowners is being diverted to plug state budget gaps.

In a budget proposed this week, California joined more than a dozen states that want to help close gaping shortfalls using money paid by the nation's biggest banks and earmarked for foreclosure prevention, investigations of financial fraud and blunting the ill effects of the housing crisis. California was awarded more than $400 million from the banks, and Gov. Jerry Brown has proposed using the bulk of that sum to pay the state's debts.

The money was part of a national settlement valued at $25 billion and negotiated with five big banks over abuses in their mortgage and foreclosure processes.

The settlement, reached in February after a year of talks and intervention by the Obama administration, was the second-largest in history involving the states, trailing the tobacco industry settlement, and represented the first large-scale commitment by banks to provide direct aid to borrowers.

As part of the settlement, the banks agreed to pay the states $2.5 billion, money intended to help homeowners and mitigate the effects of the foreclosure surge. But critics complained that this was the only cash the banks were required to pay - the rest comes in the form of "credits" for reducing mortgage debt and other activities. Even that relatively small amount has proved too great a temptation for lawmakers.

Only 27 states have devoted all their funds from the banks to housing programs, according to a report by Enterprise Community Partners, a national affordable housing group. So far about 15 states have said they will use all or most of the money for other purposes."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/business/states-diverting-mortgage-settlement-money-to-other-uses.xml

Fat cats to the slaughter.

Greg Q

Why hold the atty fees down? Zimmerman is going to win in the SYG hearing, and the State's going to have to pay his atty fees. Jack them up!

Ignatz

--Hell, there was one commenter who said that a 9mm isn't a high powered pistol round!--

Depends on how you define high powered. The 9mm has considerably more power than the 38 special but is dwarfed by the 357 magnum, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, 44 Special, 41 and 44 magnums, etc.

Melinda Romanoff

TK-

Seems to me the states did that with some other massive court settlement.

Now, what was it?

Right on the tip of my tongue....

Janet? CH? Can you help me out here?

chas

But one I would propose here -- Zimmerman carrying a gun does not seem like it was a very good idea. It probably DID encourage him to follow Martin, instead of hang back and let the cops handle the situation.

that is an abusrd conclusion. he was well within his rights and lawfully carrying his gun. what i would propose here is that skittles recklessly assaulting someone for no good reason it was does not seem like a very good idea. skittles would be alive and selling dope today if he wasnt such a hothead.

Ignatz

--But one I would propose here -- Zimmerman carrying a gun does not seem like it was a very good idea. It probably DID encourage him to follow Martin, instead of hang back and let the cops handle the situation.--

Can you be ruled out of order for assuming probabilities not in evidence? :)
As has been mentioned many times here, carrying concealed typically makes a person more circumspect about entering possibly dangerous situations because the stakes are potentially higher.

MarkO

Neighborhood watch guy should watch the neighborhood. I don't find the fact that he was concerned about someone wandering around to be the least bit odd. He was profiling, all right, but the profile was of someone unknown in the neighborhood.

The neighborhood decided they needed him on that wall. What happened after he saw TM may be somewhat in dispute, but it more and more appears that he was attacked and his nose and head smashed, smashed by someone who has no legitimate reason so to do.

NK

Ig-- 'mentioned many times here' I know that's been said, but cannot anyone prove that's true? In any event, does everyone agree that we all wish GZ hadn't left his car that night to follow TMartin.

NK

'can anyone'

chas

Posted by: NK | May 17, 2012 at 12:03 PM

personally i wish skittles wasnt so intent on proving he was a No_Limit_Nigga and attacking people w/o provocation. he'd be alive if he had been taught to deal w/ his problems w/o resorting to violence.

Appalled

One last point -- referred to in TM's last Trayvon posting -- is NBC's report on the autopsy of Martin:

The official report, prepared by the medical examiner in Volusia County, Fla., also found that the 17-year-old Martin had one other fresh injury – a small abrasion, no more than a quarter-inch in size – on his left ring finger below the knuckle.

This does not seem like the more significant injuries to the knuckles described in earlier postings.

cboldt

-- Zimmerman is going to win in the SYG hearing, and the State's going to have to pay his atty fees. --

Nope. The state does not pay when it improvidently presses a charge. What the immunity statute provides for is fees awarded to the immune one, in any civil suit that is pressed. So, Crump is enticed to withhold filing a civil suit until after it is impossible for Zimmerman to obtain immunity.

sailor

The special prosecutor will be on 600AM JAX this afternoon at 5:00 pm taking questions if any of you want to call.

Janet

Janet? CH? Can you help me out here?

What?...maybe the tobacco settlement?

It is all ridiculous. Govt at all levels is out-of-control with spending. Even the "send money to pay off our nat'l debt" account is a scam. They just spend it.

"But the contributions don’t specifically go to pay off existing debt. The government deposits them in the Treasury Department’s general fund, in essence the government’s main checking account."

Clarice

There's no evidence that he (GZ)was not returning to his car when he was attacked.

Rick Ballard

Appalled,

Zimmerman had the gun for the entire time. If his "equalizer" was so confidence inspiring, why didn't he hop out of his truck when Martin first gave him the stink eye?

I believe that the motivation for him leaving the truck could more easily be ascribed to having a cell phone in his hand coupled with the knowledge that police were in route and would be calling him for the location where they would meet.

I don't believe carrying a weapon increases willingness to assume risk. I also don't find "the police are on the way" to be assuring but Zimmerman had more experience with the SPD than I have with my local, totally invisible, LEOs.

NK

chas@1207-- we'll never know. So speaking for myself, I wish GZ stayed in his car. If TM burgled an apartment that night and stole an IPad, it's not worth one dead and another life ruined. If TM was on the small time gangsta path, he would of wound up in prison someday. But it's still not worth one dead and another life ruined, small stupid decisions that night with ridiculously costly consequences.

MarkO

NK, I wish TM had identified himself and asked for company to walk home. The fact that GZ left his car is, at best, a remote cause of the events. We could wish he had been at dinner or that TM had stayed away, or stayed in the house.

In the end, however, it seems that TM was the actual cause of the events.

Ignatz

--I know that's been said, but cannot anyone prove that's true?--

Don't feel like googling for studies but can submit the evidence of myself and others who carry and the verdict in that anecdotal evidence is pretty much unanimous that carrying leads to sober behavior for a normal person.
For gangster types it probably doesn't, but Zimmerman seems, based on his past neighborhood watch record, to have been pretty sensibly minded in approaching people. The variable this time seems not to have been Zimmerman's behavior but the stupid behavior of the person he was watching.
My take is the opposite of most. Had Zimmerman been allowed to open carry I'm betting Trayvon would have found the idea of thumping Zimmerman much less appealing and would have picked up his jacks [and skittles] and headed home.

Captain Hate

Janet? CH? Can you help me out here?

What?...maybe the tobacco settlement?

Yes, the tobacco settlements were so massive the state attorneys general acted like NAMBLA members in an orphanage; funding everything in sight.

Melinda Romanoff

And funded no medical care for their victims, I might add.

chas

small stupid decisions that night with ridiculously costly consequences.

Posted by: NK | May 17, 2012 at 12:13 PM

if you think a concerned citizen taking action in an area that has been plagued w/ crime is a "small stupid decision" than you have pretty much given up. Z's lawful actions were an attempt to help police a community. TM is the only one responsible for his death. his actions alone led to the shooting.

NK

Attys Fees-- Immunity is a shield for people lawfully using SD against civil lawsuits brought by the attacker. Immunity is NOT a sword to attack the State of Florida for filing charges and forcing the self defender to prove SD. The self defender would have to file a false arrest or malicious prosecution case against the State -- that is very rarely a winnable case. For lots of reasons.

Porchlight

What MarkO and chas said.

NK

GZ had received watch training (although I don't think he was still neighborhood watch at the time.) I assume Florida Watch is typical and they are instructed to observe and report, and definitely told not to intervene -- the SFD dispatcher reminded GZ that night not to follow. So GZ knew better than to follow a suspect, so yes his decision to do that was stupid. Does that stupid decision make him a criminal? IMO definitely not, but Judge Lester will decide that under Florida Law. Does GZ regret leaving his SUV that night? -- that's a rhetorical question.

chas

Posted by: NK | May 17, 2012 at 12:27 PM


i guess i missed the part in the recording where when told "we dont need you to do that" in reference to looking for the suspect Z replied "fuck off telephone operator, im locked and loaded" in fact i thought what i heard was "Okay" so not sure where you get this idea that Z continued following and "stalking" skittles.

cboldt

-- What MarkO and chas said. --

Put me in there too. Martin had many opportunities to avoid or break off hostilities, and took none of them. Blaming Zimmerman for being suspicious, or for getting out of his truck in order to facilitate tracking Martin's destination, is assigning wrong to a laudable action.

Using hindsight to say it could have turned out better, well, we can do that with just about anything that turned out bad, in anybody's life. So, let's blame Chad for asking Trayvon to get Skittles and iced tea. If not for that, no incident.

Appalled

This is the critical problem with Zimmerman's conduct, as reported:

Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement. It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous.

See http://www.usaonwatch.org/assets/publications/0_NW_Manual_1210.pdf, page 17.

AliceH

So GZ knew better than to follow a suspect, so yes his decision to do that was stupid.

Disagree. A lot.

centralcal

Has it been proven that GZ was "following?" I thought he was trying to identify an address to give to the police and had lost sight of TM?

Ignatz

--Does GZ regret leaving his SUV that night? -- that's a rhetorical question.--

It may be a rhetorical question but it isn't the correct one.
The correct question is, should Zimmerman have anticipated what occurred to such an extent that he did not even leave his vehicle?
What's obvious after the fact does not mean it was obvious or 'stupid' before the fact.

Clarice

Going out but ,appalled, you missed the fact that GZ had not started out patrolling that night with his gun--he had it to go on an errand outside the compound and was on his way out when he noticed TM behaving suspiciously.

Maybe you're always appalled because you are always half informed.

Ignatz

--This is the critical problem with Zimmerman's conduct, as reported:--

You're assuming he confronted Martin. What evidence is there that he did? I'm not aware of any.
There seems to be evidence Martin followed him back to his vehicle and confronted Zimmerman.

NK

Actually, GZ claims (through his father's TV appearance) that he didn't dispute the dispatcher and was heading back to his SUV. My guess is GZ had a "what am I doing moment" (like the one I had when I turned my back and walked away from a hoody kid in 1979 who was holding a .38 revolver and demanded my money)GZ may have remembered his Watch training and was doing the smart thing to wait for and meet the SPD cop. Fate intervened-- TM confronted him, punched him in the face and jumped him. So TM wasn't just stupid, he was criminal assailant. OK all true, -- I still wish GZ had stayed in his SUV, and waited for the cop.

cboldt

Appalled, notice the admonition is to not pursue vehicles, and to not confront individuals. There is nothing in there about not "following" or even "pursuing" an individual who is on foot - jut to not "confront" them.

Based on that, and on the fact that Zimmerman has always heeded this prescription in the past, I think it most likely that Zimmerman was following the prescription the night of February 26. He had no intention of initiating a confrontation with Martin. His goal was to maintain visual contact so he could report that to police; and it would then be up to the police to confront the suspect.

I don't see anything wrong with that, at all.

Ignatz

--OK all true, -- I still wish GZ had stayed in his SUV, and waited for the cop.--

So does everybody.
I wish I'd done a lot of things differently, but I made decisions based on what I knew then, not now.
As Frank said, 'that's life' or, in this case, death.

Rick Ballard

In order to call the death by misadventure of Grillntats a tragedy one has to ignore the cold fact that over 200 individuals of roughly his age and race have left this vale of tears since his departure due to the same type of error he made. Their dispatchers were all black so the departures were worth no more than a few lines in the local paper or 10 seconds on local news.

It took the President's adoption of Grillntats at the behest of the Black Klan to elevate this incident but something so common can never be a tragedy.

Jay

Florida Watch is typical and they are instructed to observe and report, and definitely told not to intervene -- the SFD dispatcher reminded GZ that night not to follow. So GZ knew better than to follow a suspect, so yes his decision to do that was stupid.

Actually, your comment is stupid.

There is no evidence, anywhere, at all, Zimmerman "followed" Martin other than to observe him.

Please get some coherence. It may serve you well.

Jay

Posted by: Appalled

There is no evidence, anywhere, at all, Zimmerman "confronted" Martin.

Post all the neighborhood watch guidelines you wish, nothing changes that fact.

Rocco

Test

NK

This isn't a palour game of who's more wrong. Obviously the kid who punches a man in the face and then jumps him is far more wrong than someone using bad judgment. If anybody-- anywhere -- thinks GZ doesn't regret not staying put and just being a witness, they are kidding themselves. GZ didn't sign up to be our hero by killing IPad burglars. Because of these rare instances, following street criminals is a bad idea, that's why PDs all over the country train to report, but don't follow. It's not cowardly or giving into thugs, it's smart. I was lucky, I should have handed over $20 to the hoody thug in 1979, because I put my life in hands of the addled brain of some 17yo punk who could have just as easily pulled the trigger. The DC cops would have never found him, I would have been another urban stat on a slab. No heroism in that.

daddy

OT

An unusual Alaskan "Healing Therapy".

Last month we had a Coffee Barista girl kidnapped. Big vigils were held, big donations to her estranged parents to find her, but unfortunately she was discovered murdered.

Last week we had an Air Force Enlisted man go missing. Big vigils were held, big donations to the estranged parents to help find him. Sadly he too was discovered murdered just a few days back.

Very sad cases both.

So the 2 dads of the slain get together and decide to go to Anchorages most famous Topless/Bottomless strip joint, The Alaska Bush Club, where apparently they get plastered, and eventually get arrested for drunk driving and assault.

And now the ADN is accused of deleting comments critical of the ADN for reporting the story. What a world.

Some guy

"In any event, does everyone agree that we all wish GZ hadn't left his car that night to follow TMartin."

No.

Sorry, but that's just silly. Or are you seriously going to argue that Zimmerman doesn't have a right to walk around his *own* condo complex?

Appalled

Clarice and Ignatz:

The charging affadavit indicates that GZ followed Martin and that "Zimmerman confronted Martin". I assume they have evidence for this, which, of course, we have not seen yet. Note that the affidavit does not say Zimmerman struck the first blow in a fight, which means the DA at least made some effort to make the charging document match the evidence.

I think the special DA believes in both the following and the confronting -- hence the trouble Zimmerman is in. If the evidence does not support it, then I don't see why anyone thought raising this case was a good idea.

As for the "well, he was on an errand" excuse -- I don't find that mitigating, unless the charging document -- which has Zimmerman both following and confronting -- turns out to be untrue.

NK

Jay-- if you read the police dispatcher transcript, it screams that GZ was following TM. words to the effect of 'these assholes always get away' out of breath, the dispatcher confirming that he hadn't stayed with his vehicle which was the meet point for the SPD etc -- of course he was following him.

chas

Posted by: NK | May 17, 2012 at 12:50 PM

nothing Z did was wrong. it was not wrong to get out of his truck to see where the kid went. and you keep up this meme of him following skittles when NOTHING indicates he followed him. as for killing ipad burglars, you may not think its worth killing someone but that thief knows there are some people who will kill him if he robs them, so by committing that crime he has decided his life is only worth an ipad so when he finally does get his just rewards i wont weep for him or castigate the person who kills him.

Some guy

I assume they have evidence for this

Why do you assume that?

Seriously, there is a great deal in that charging document that they don't have any evidence to support i.e. profiled.


chas

The charging affadavit indicates that GZ followed Martin and that "Zimmerman confronted Martin". I assume they have evidence for this, which, of course, we have not seen yet.

bad assumption, read the transcript from the bail hearing. omara evicerated that on detective concerning who confronted who and who started what. so much of that "affadavit" was made up it borders on unethical

NK

If people honestly think that GZ just happened to take a stroll around the condo complex -- in the cold rain, after he had stopped his SUV to report a burglary suspect, and was in communication with SPD dispatch and arragned to meet enroute SPD at his SUV-- well we'll just have to wait for Judge Lester to make his findings of fact at the Immunity hearing.

Threadkiller

When an out of breath GZ told police that assholes always get away, the "following" ceased.

NK

The arrest affidavit? it is a joke, a conclusory mismash that recites no material corroborating evidence making out a Murder 2 charge. GZ may have made small stupid decisions that night, but State's Attorney Corey is a shameless petty tyrant.

Some guy

If people honestly think that GZ just happened to take a stroll around the condo complex

Who ever said that?

NK

If the following "ceased".. then by definition, it had to have started.

NK

Some Guy @12:53 said: "Or are you seriously going to argue that Zimmerman doesn't have a right to walk around his *own* condo complex?"

Threadkiller

Would it be any better if GZ followed TM in his SUV?

Jim Ryan

Donna Summer has passed away.

jwest

What I find appalling and infuriating is the lack of introspection on the left wing websites concerning their initial position on Zimmerman.

They were ready to literally lynch him based on the Crump/Sharpton description of events. Now that the facts are surfacing and are 180 degrees from where they thought, no one seems to be saying “Gee, maybe we jumped the gun on this one”.

Typical liberals.

Threadkiller

When GZ's eyes spotted TM, the following began. Should he have broken off at that point?

NK

TK@1:06 -- that's an interesting question. If GZ stays in his SUV, IMO he's more observing than following, and TMartin would have had to try to force his way into the SUV passenger compartment to attack GZ. GZ's claim of self-defense would be basically 'airtight' if TMartin attacked him in his SUV. So under SD law, GZ would have been better off if he 'followed' in his SUV.

Some guy

Wow NK, that is sort of embarrassing if you think those two different statements even mean the same thing.

Instead of making up something I didn't say, why don't you instead confront the actual argument -- are you seriously going to argue that Zimmerman doesn't have a right to walk around his *own* condo complex?

NK

spotting TM didn't start the following. Spotting TM made GZ a witness. When GZ stopped and called SPD he was still a witness. When GZ affirmatively decided to leave his vehicle to keep track of TM's movements, he started following.

Jim Ryan

Hot Stuff
Last Dance
She Works Hard for the Money
Bad Girls
and...wait for it...

Love to Love You, Baby

Danube of Thought

-- What MarkO and chas said. --

Me too.

NK

Someguy@1:11-- you're repeating a bullshit question. I don't answer bullshit questions. GZ was a rental tenant at the condos, TM was a lawful invitee. They both had a right to be at the premises.

Threadkiller

GZ should not have been looking a TM.

"According to arrest affidavits, Guzman confessed to hunting down his victims, shooting and killing them because he thought they were gay and were coming onto him. The police report said, "His motive for committing the murder was due to his belief that the victim had homosexual tendencies. (The suspect) further stated that the victim had recently looked at him in an inappropriate manner of which (the suspect) felt was loaded with homosexual connotations, thus causing him to kill the victim. The subject confessed...eventually claiming that the victim made homosexual advances towards him, leaving him no choice but to shoot the victim.""

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/21003187595091/

See no evil...

Some guy

It's only "a bullshit question" to you because it puts you in a awkward spot. It isn't really bs at all now is it?

They both had a right to be at the premises.

Now who exactly took unlawful exception to that?

chas

Someguy@1:11-- you're repeating a bullshit question. I don't answer bullshit questions. GZ was a rental tenant at the condos, TM was a lawful invitee. They both had a right to be at the premises.

Posted by: NK | May 17, 2012 at 01:17 PM


then why do you question Z's right to get out of his truck and observe someone acting suspicously in a common area but not skittles right to ambush and assault someone in that common area? Z lost sight of skittles and skittles had plenty of time to cover the couple of hundred yards to his door. he stayed around to stalk and attack someone he felt had 'dissed him.

Jay

If the following "ceased".. then by definition, it had to have started.

Posted by: NK

Apparently in NK Land you "observe" people walking between streets & between townhomes by not following them.

And remember, following is bad.

Unless you're observing.

Or something.

Cecil Turner

Why is it a bullshit question?

'Cause Chevy didn't make a 327 in '55, the 327 didn't come out till '62. And it wasn't offered in the Bel Air with a four-barrel carb till '64. However, in 1964, the correct ignition timing would be four degrees before top-dead-center.
Err, okay.

daddy

Megyn is interviewing Mark Essig, the Former CEO of the Steel Company that is painted negatively in Obama's Anti-Bain/Anti-Romney ad. He says that the Obama is a gross distortion of the truth.

Megyn asks what is his opinion of the attacks on Bain Capital ala this ad, etc.

Essig he is sorry that particular plant had to get closed but is glad that the restructuring was able to keep other of their plants open.

He says "In my long history of running portfolio companies for private equity firms, and I've worked for a number of private equity firms over the years, the ethics, the standards, the professionalism of Bain Capital is the highest in the industry, and I've always attributed that to Mitt Romney and the other co-Foundersand managing directors at Bain. They have been the God Standard for ethics and professionalism, so when I hear an attack like that uhhh, they're looking at one sliver of a large body of work that by anyone's account is a great track record."

Cecil Turner

I continue to believe Zimmerman acted imprudently. He was apparently trying to reconcile two competing goals: 1) maintain proper distance from Martin; and, 2) keep Martin in sight. In the dark and rain, even per his own story, he failed at both. I also wonder if the firearm didn't make him more bold/aggressive (even though it rationally shouldn't), and believe in the absence of the firearm, the most likely event is that he'd have suffered cosmetic injuries from the assault, and TM would likely have been arrested, and everyone would have been better off. (Though I'm quite aware that's speculation, and it could easily have turned out differently.)

That said, it really doesn't matter. The proximate cause of TM's death was his decision to assault Zimmerman. Zimmerman's judgment lapses (even if you accept them) aren't criminal . . . Martin's assault clearly is.

Threadkiller

My favorite part of that movie is the Screech Owl, Cecil.

NK

The problem with posting opinions is that oftimes people don't read them, or choose not to, read them carefully. GZ had a right to be at the premises, to walk around the premises, to engage in any lawful behavior he wanted around the premises. To even follow a suspicious stranger who looked like a burglar. He has that 'Right'. My opinion is that while GZ had that, it's not smart for 28yo married men to follow suspicious characters, it's bad judgment, it's downright stupid. PD Watch programs all over America agree, the SPD agrees, GZ agrees because he claims he was going back to his truck. We have the 'Right' to do many stupid things, that doesn't change the fact that they are stupid. And Jay, go back and do your 12th grade homework, I doubt you're studying for an AP exam.

PaulV

The two main issue today
1. Is Walking While Hispanic a Crime
2. Mary Kennedy is latest victim of the Kennedy War on Women

NK

CecilT-- Mona Lisa Vito was absolutely right to refuse to answer a bullshit question "yes or no'. She is my ideal of a smart, persuasive witness.

NK

CecilT@1:30-- obviously I agree that following TM is not criminal, in fact GZ had a 'right' to do it. But IMO it was stupid. Why?-- look at the result.

AliceH

NK: The people disagreeing with you have read your opinions. They (we) just find them unpersuasive.

Paulo

I never knew neighborhood watch guidelines, even when not on neighborhood watch duty, trumped state laws and the Constitution.

The More you Know...

Lea

This is in line with the report that Zimmerman had injuries.
Something is fishy.

From BalloonJuice. Kind of says it all, doesn't it?

Evidence proves us wrong. It's clearly a conspiracy!

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