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May 17, 2012

Comments

NK

AliceH-- I was careful to say 'oftimes' people don't read carefully -- that means many times peole do rea carefully. People who take the time to read and then disagree is the point of commenting. But failing to understand and then posting an insulting response is just.. well .. stupid. There was some of that this morning. You disagree with my opinion... OK fine... do the results of that night prove GZ was wise to follow?

Some guy

it's downright stupid

In *your* opinion.

Let's not forget, this started with you wanting something that everyone could agree upon. I disagree that it was either obvious bad judgment (given information available to GZ) or stupid.

Taking a fist to gunfight..? well that is clearly bad judgment.

Some guy

But failing to understand and then posting an insulting response is just.. well .. stupid.

Let's see... you disingenuously misstate something said in order to make it better fit your narrative, and you are insulted simply by being asked to return to the argument you put forth instead of wasting time on your strawman? Do I have that right?

What exactly did I fail to understand?

chas

Posted by: NK | May 17, 2012 at 01:39 PM

walking around a bad part of town at 3am wearing expensive jewelry is an example of exercising your rights stupidly. calling police about a suspicious person and then seeing where that person went is being a concerned citizen and neighbor. if more people were willing to be that engaged the world would be a better place.

NK

SomeGuy-- I don't know why you inferred I suggested your comments were stupid. You demsnded to know why I characterized one of your comments in a certain way, I copied and pasted your comment as my respone. I had no problem with that. I can't help you with your guilty conscience.

Mark Folkestad

Mark Fuhrman just disgraced himself in an interview with Megyn Kelly. He seems to be poorly informed on the facts of the Martin-Zimmerman case. Unless my hearing is failing, Fuhrman said the shot was fired at an "immediate", rather than "intermediate" distance, and he defined that as being at least two feet away.

Melinda Romanoff

And to purposefully change subjects.

Rasmussen: Fischer 56%, Kerry 38%

"Do you like apples?"

Jay

And Jay, go back and do your 12th grade homework, I doubt you're studying for an AP exam.

Posted by: NK |

I'm sorry you're all butt hurt that I'm actually examining the words you're using.

But that's a you problem.

boatbuilder

I hope to hell that all of my neighbors behave as "stupidly" as Zimmerman did when they see suspicious persons (even if that suspicious person is me) in my neighborhood. If we counsel everybody to walk away from and avoid suspicious persons, and let the police take care of things, the result is inevitable--more crime. The fact that there was a significant problem with burglary in Z's neighborhood makes his conduct all the more appropriate--IF the kid is one of the local burglars then he will be gone when the police get there, and will come back when they leave. Was he supposed to run away because of the rather unlikely event that one of the local teen burglars was going to attack him? This was not some blind alley in the city--it was in the open and essentially "public" space surrounded by condos, balconies and people. 20/20 hindsight on this is BS.

Jay

Earlier NK:

I assume Florida Watch is typical and they are instructed to observe and report

When it is pointed out you can't "observe" someone who cuts between two streets by walking between rows of townhomes it becomes:

go back and do your 12th grade homework


Gee, I wonder why that is?

NK

" if more people were willing to be that engaged [following a suspect] the world would be a better place" obviously, that's a value judgment. The cops nationwide disagree -- in many urban/suburban PDs cops are trained not follow suspects on their own.

centralcal

TK, if you're around, have you seen Drudges screaming bright red headline! You're gonna love it!

Jay

he cops nationwide disagree -- in many urban/suburban PDs cops are trained not follow suspects on their own.

Posted by: NK

Who cares?

It is irrelevant.

Mark Folkestad

Hindsight is 20/20. If the dog hadn't stopped to take a piss he would have caught the rabbit. If I had left for work five minutes earlier or five minutes later one pre-dawn morning eight or nine years ago, the huge buck whitetail deer a speeding moron hit and launched high in the air wouldn't have landed on my new van's roof and destroyed the vehicle. I wasn't stupid or careless. Some things just happened. I don't think that Zimmerman was stupid or reckless, and even if I did, it wouldn't matter one little bit. Zimmerman would still be completely innocent of any criminal charge.

Some guy

Project much NK?

fdcol63

" ... 20/20 hindsight on this is BS. "

boatbuilder, you took the words right out of my mouth and said it better. I was in the process of writing something similar to all the hand-wringers claiming GZ shouldn't have got out of his truck.

AliceH

--But failing to understand and then posting an insulting response is just.. well .. stupid--

True, but the only evidence I saw of this behavior was your comment: "Jay, go back and do your 12th grade homework, I doubt you're studying for an AP exam. "

--do the results of that night prove GZ was wise to follow?--

The results have no bearing whatsoever on the wisdom of GZ's decision to get out of the truck or not (remember? That's where we started - you added "following" later).

Let me pretend you meant "was getting out of the truck a good or bad decision given everything GZ knew at that point?" My answer is, it was a low risk decision that plenty of reasonable and conscientious people might do, so yes - it was a good decision.

Further, getting out of the truck made the results of that night no more inevitable or likely than GZ getting in the truck in the first place.

NK

My value judgment is when GZ lost sight of TMartin, he should have waited in his vehicle for the responding SPD officer. Told the SPD what he saw and when. And waited for SPD to complete their search-- If SPD found a suspect he could have ID'ed him. IMO that's how GZ could have best helped society that night. Instead, we have the dead kid, GZ's ruined life and the legal circus...

Jane

Can I interrupt this Zimmermarathon to tell you the feel good story of the day?

Amy and I just went out for her 2-drink birthday lunch. She and Mary's best friends are a het couple - Mrs works in the schools and Mr is a lawyer in town. They have 2 girls.

Mrs works with kids who are in some way retarded (can you use that word?). For 4 years she has been dealing with a boy who is now 16, and who was given up to foster care at birth and then placed with a family who also had a retarded kid who they wanted company for.

About 8 months ago they figured out that the kid, I'll call D, was not retarded but instead was deaf, and as a result never learned to talk. He is actually as smart as they come. When the foster family figured this out they decided they no longer wanted him.

WEll upon learning this, Mrs best friend, decided she had to adopt him - she was so in love with him having taught him for 4 years. And Mr Best friend was as happy as could be to have a son who he could go to sports with, and teach to drive and all that.

So they went to work and applied to take the child and adopt him. The decision came down yesterday, and they told the kid who was completely beside himself. Friday he meets the rest of the family and Sat everyone is celebrating at a pool party at Amy's house.

The adoption will take place in September.

Think of how cool that is. Think how awful it is that social services never realized he was deaf. And think about the alternate universe this kid has in his head that someday soon he will be able to share in a happy loving family.

Now that is a birthday present! It certainly had me in tears.

Sue

Go to Drudge. Now. Especially TK. Don't get too excited but it is a great headline!

Mark Folkestad

Jane, thank you for sharing that. May the young man see nothing but triumphs ahead.

centralcal

Wow, Jane. What an amazing story.

Some guy

My value judgment is when GZ lost sight of TMartin, he should have waited in his vehicle for the responding SPD officer. Told the SPD what he saw and when. And waited for SPD to complete their search-- If SPD found a suspect he could have ID'ed him. IMO that's how GZ could have best helped society that night. Instead, we have the dead kid, GZ's ruined life and the legal circus...

A perfectly valid position, yet it is flawed from a logic point of view. How would you respond to the following?

My value judgment is Trayvon should have never left for 7-11 that night. IMO that's how TM could have best helped society that night. Instead, we have the dead kid, GZ's ruined life and the legal circus...

I would assume you would find that a rather flawed attempt to make Trayvon at fault for setting a chain of events into motion.

Both of the above attempt to place a "tipping point" into the event. The problem is that the only tipping point that is at all germane is the first unlawful act. Everything prior is moot.

Ignatz

Cool story Jane.

Rob Crawford

Don't feel like googling for studies but can submit the evidence of myself and others who carry and the verdict in that anecdotal evidence is pretty much unanimous that carrying leads to sober behavior for a normal person.

+1

CCW classes spend more time in telling you how to AVOID confrontation than in making sure you can safely operate your pistol. The Ohio AG's CCW booklet has a whole section on dispute settlement. The politest places I've been have been pistol matches and SCA events (where everyone has a large knife on their hip).

NK

"...My answer is, it was a low risk decision that plenty of reasonable and conscientious people might do, so yes - it was a good decision." Utterly disagree, it was an inherently high risk low reward decision. Inherently High risk -- obviously, because there was risk of a confrontation and the violent result we actually have. And GZ KNEW that risk existed-- he had had been taught exactly that by SPD in his Watch training, GZ presumably knew burglars in Sanford carry screwdrivers and other weapons, and GZ obviously knew he was armed with a 9mm. So if there was a confrontation there was an inherent risk of a very bad violent outcome --that's the definition of High Risk. And the reward? improving the chances of stopping a burglary-- maybe. Maybe the figure isn't a burgular,maybe the police search finds him anyway without following. Sorry Alice, GZ's decision that night becomes a text book example of what NOT to do if you are a citizen witnessing a possible crime in progress. The FBI and police departments will use his example as proof of why witnesses should never follow street criminals. Observe and report.

centralcal

Sue: GMTA - see my 2:10 comment above.

Captain Hate

Think how awful it is that social services never realized he was deaf

How could this child be bounced through a decade of the special ed cottage industry and nobody realized this? Do those people possess any skills for doing their job or are they just allowed to muddle through knowing full well that nobody will have a clue about their level of proficiency because no-one will believe their students.

This is a heartwarming story but it opens Pandora's box of how many children like him are waiting to be discovered but probably won't be.

Jack is Back!

Jane,

I am such a sucker for stories like that. What a great and humane gesture to undertake that adoption. More power to them and God is certainly smiling down on them and their new son.

On Topic: Mitt was is in Jacksonville today and they had a "high flyer" fund raiser for him at Epping Forest Yacht Club in which one of the attendees was Angela Corey.

Off Topic: I went to my local Bank of America branch this morning to make a deposit and within 1/2 hour of doing so some guy came in and robbed it. Now that was too close.

Some guy

I went to my local Bank of America branch this morning to make a deposit and within 1/2 hour of doing so some guy came in and robbed it. Now that was too close.

Sorry, didn't know that was your bank...

MarkO

Calling TK, calling TK. You may yet be on to something.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/17/The-Vetting-Barack-Obama-Literary-Agent-1991-Born-in-Kenya-Raised-Indonesia-Hawaii

hit and run

Great story Jane.

And for the record, Amy's birthday is on Sunday.

Danube of Thought

Great story, Jane. Hope all works out well for that boy.

chas

Instead, we have the dead kid, GZ's ruined life and the legal circus...

Posted by: NK | May 17, 2012 at 02:15 PM

Z's ruined life and legal circus are only due to race baiters. if the system worked as it should after the investigation which resulted in the prosecutor declining to charge Z the matter wouldve ended.

Melinda Romanoff

Very nice story.

centralcal

To add to the TK fun:

Joshua Treviño ‏@jstrevino
The Kenya here is a composite of several previous birthplaces: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/17/The-Vetting-Barack-Obama-Literary-Agent-1991-Born-in-Kenya-Raised-Indonesia-Hawaii

chas

Instead, we have the dead kid, GZ's ruined life and the legal circus...

Posted by: NK | May 17, 2012 at 02:15 PM

P.S. and once again you keep laying blame at Z's feet. if skittles hadnt viciously attacked him he wouldnt have been shot. this is all entirely 100% on skittles. you keep trying to assign some amount of cupability to Z that just isnt justified. nothing Z did warranted an ass kicking.

centralcal

Sorry, MarkO, I didn't know that tweet also contained the same full link you had!

MarkO

centralcal, we have to give our TK our all, even two or three times.

Captain Hate

I'm sure TK is in his bunk

NK

SomeGuy@226 is a fair question, and I'll answer as best I can (then I really have to run). SG, your hypo and question really address the issue of legal responsibility, causality and liability-- criminal and civil. I haven't been talking about that. The question is what do we all learn from the events that night? IMO, we should learn that the FBI and PDs have been right to teach Watchers not to follow, because that has the risk of leading to a confrontation with a criminal-- and criminals are armed and dangerous, so the there is an inherent risk of deadly violence. Teaching not to follow isn't cowardly or giving into thugs, it's smart. I don't know Rob Crawford, but he's proven to me that he is an extremely knowledgeable and conscientious gun owner. Read his 2:27 about CCW license training emphasising avoiding confrontation and using a firearm defensively -- I think that CCW training is spot on. If GZ had stayed in his SUV, and TM attacked him in his truck, there would be little debate if GZ emptied his magazine clip into TM. Instead GZ followed, and we have a very different result. To me the lesson is clear, GZ made a mistake that night; we should all watch and report to get criminals off the street. But don't follow. Sorry I gotta go, now.

fdcol63

TM would still be alive today if he'd just stood there and argued with GZ until the police arrived.

Redbrow

What gets me is people who believe the suggestion "we don't need you to do that" is a direct command that GZ is legally bound to obey (and did obey after saying OK), completely ignore "the supreme commander's" other actual orders.

From the transcript: "Let me know if he does anything, OK?" and "We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else."

If they believe he is 'legally bound' to obey all of the 911 dispatcher's orders then how can he report on whether TM does anything else if he does not observe him?

Sue

C-cal,

I looked and missed your post. I almost choked when I saw the screaming red headline at drudge. The story isn't as great as the headline but wow. He led someone to believe he was born in Kenya.

Porchlight

Jane, that's wonderful. Although I'm just flabbergasted that a child could reach the age of 16 without anyone realizing he was deaf. So sad.

I wish them all the best. Please keep us posted!

Jane

And for the record, Amy's birthday is on Sunday.

Around here we celebrate for a week. Plus she has good company on the day before.

When Amy got out of college she ran group homes for kids who were retarded (I still don't know if I can say that word) so I'm glad she will be a force in this kids life because she knows what he's gone thru. And Mr Best friend is a really good and involved Dad who is beside himself with the thought of having a son. The kid is not crazy wild and has never been abused etc.

At any rate, social services should be disbanded, sued into oblivion and then tarred and feathered.

And like TK, I really do like that Breitbart link.

cboldt

-- Inherently High risk -- obviously, because there was risk of a confrontation and the violent result we actually have. --

You are applying hindsight to render the outcome obvious. The more likely scenario is that Martin was trying to avoid being observed, and hence, confrontation is a remote possibility. Martin ran to avoid ongoing detection, not to initiate a confrontation.

In hindsight, that was not Martin's ultimate intent. Martin's intent was to confront Zimmerman and beat him to a pulp. But that is not the most likely.

Assume an alternative, that Martin decided to display a screwdriver or other weapon and demand Zimmerman's wallet. Not likely that a death would result.

The outcome that actually occurred was more remote that having a confrontation, in the generic sense. The outcome that actually occurred is a series of Martin-initiated events, starting with confronting Zimmerman, then cold cocking him, then sitting on him to administer a beating for an extended period, then (according to Zimmerman) trying to stifle his voice by smothering, then a reveal of the pistol, then a death threat. None of that was in Zimmerman's control; and none of that is even remotely likely.

cboldt

-- ... the FBI and PDs have been right to teach Watchers not to follow ... --

If we take the Neighborhood Watch material that Appalled provided, it does NOT teach Watchers not to follow, unless the following is of a vehicle (and by extension, following that vehicle with your vehicle). What is taught is to not confront. Every indication is that Zimmerman had no intention to confront, and did not confront.

Rob Crawford

To me the lesson is clear, GZ made a mistake that night; we should all watch and report to get criminals off the street. But don't follow.

To me there's a clearer lesson: don't commit assault and battery. It's a crime, and your target might be more capable than you imagine.

chas

Posted by: NK | May 17, 2012 at 02:41 PM

police/fbi are NOT taught to not follow suspicious people. where do you get this garbage?? their training teaches them to look for certain tells that would then cause them to call for backup but most dept use single officer patrol cars and answer calls w/ just one car UNLESS there is an obvious necessity for more officers.

centralcal

Sue - I just thought how uniformly we both saw and reported on that headline - TO LET TK KNOW! LOL!

As I mentioned on the other thread - Obama is a liar. You know, he probably doesn't have a friggin clue where he really was born or who his father really is after a lifetime of lies.

Rob Crawford

The story isn't as great as the headline but wow. He led someone to believe he was born in Kenya.

So he spent half his life playing up his exoticism. Shocking -- he's just who we knew him to be.

chas

Posted by: NK | May 17, 2012 at 02:41 PM

the crap you are posting is just fantastic!! Z used his weapon in a defensive manner, the killing was caused because skittles attacked a person w/o provocation. you really think getting out of your truck at 7ish on a sunday nite in your own apt complex is grounds to be attacked?? your so clueless it defies belief.

Clarice

I'm with Chas, DoT et all on the GZ defense.

Jane, you made my day! What a story!!!

rse

There have been numerous stories about how the relevant coursework for a special ed degree, even at the graduate level, avoids teaching anything relevant to print as a code for oral language representing phonemes (of which there are about 42 in English). Literacy problems represent about 85% of LD. If a teacher is not driven to obtain info themselves, never taught.

OK Jane-I have a story I would like you to share back. After Frederick Douglass learned to read he wrote and spoke about what it was like to have thoughts but lack the words to express what you wanted to say. What you were noticing. What you were feeling. He apparently remained enchanted by language and words the rest of his life. I know for a fact that much of the reading wars track back to wanting to avoid the inevitable consequence of learning to read phonetically. It lets you create and manipulate abstract mental scenarios in the privacy of your own mind. It makes you think of your self as an individual precisely because you have your own distinct thoughts.

That is the wonderful world this couple is opening up to that boy. Bless them.

Wish more parents understood that. Nothing sadder than a family out to dinner and kids are playing on a gameboy instead of conversing.

MarkO

Obama is exactly like Lizzy Warren. He stopped being exotic when it no longer helped. He's 1/32 Kenyan.

Did I ever mention he's a liar?

NK

RobC@248-- that's a given, criminals don't learn, they can only be locked away. I'm concerned about what the lawabiding can learn from that night.

Jane

RSe,

How cool when he can express the alternate universe he has been in. I can't wait to meet him/

Porchlight

The story isn't as great as the headline but wow. He led someone to believe he was born in Kenya.

He almost certainly approved that bio before it was published. At minimum, he had to have given someone at the agency the basic facts to put in it. I'm pretty sure no one at the agency knew that his mother was "an American anthropologist" and his father a "Kenyan finance minister" before he told them.

After it was printed, he must have seen it, right? And if the born in Kenya part was untrue, he must have told Dystel it was inaccurate, right? It's interesting that Dystel categorically refuses to answer any questions about him and has done for a long time. I wonder what was offered to her for her silence.

Rob Crawford

I'm concerned about what the lawabiding can learn from that night.

By putting the blame on the law-abiding one of the two people in that encounter?

NK

Clarice-- have to disagree with you. Chas is a moron.

Captain Hate

There have been numerous stories about how the relevant coursework for a special ed degree, even at the graduate level, avoids teaching anything relevant to print as a code for oral language representing phonemes (of which there are about 42 in English)

Going back to when I was an undergrad (a long time ago) the advantages for pursuing a special ed degree were pretty well known as far as being guaranteed a job and beneficial terms of paying for tuition. I remember thinking at the time that the type of work wouldn't be appealing to a lot of people but also wondered what type of people those terms would attract.

chas

Posted by: NK | May 17, 2012 at 02:57 PM

why is that? point out one comment i have made that is moronic. or even factually wrong. i dare you. you have no basis for the "opinions" you are spewing so you go ad hom. i think most people realize who the moron is in this thread.

centralcal

Good grief, NK - Chas has made excellent points and is certainly not a moron.

AliceH

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. It's all the rage.

Melinda Romanoff

Porch-

Or threatened with.

daddy

Posted at Drudge:

Obama's bio from his 1991 Literary Agent"

Sara

The Vetting - Exclusive - Obama's Literary Agent in 1991 Booklet: 'Born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii'

Redbrow

And exactly where in the transcript does the police dispatcher mention ANYTHING about staying in the car OR returning to the car?

These morons act like he was commanded to turn tail and run as fast as he could back to his truck, lock all doors and windows, close his eyes and assume the fetal position.

The dispatcher simply suggested that George need not follow. George said 'OK' and stopped. There is no evidence he continued to follow or confront. The prosecutor has admitted, under oath, that no evidence exists which proves otherwise.

Jane

I think this is trouble for Obama. Lots of stuff coming out - the bribes to Wright, the Muslim who learns Christianity, this, some of it is gonna stick.

Romney's PAC should not give him a pass. I can't wait to hear him explain that brochure.

fdcol63

If he wasn't really Kenyan, he certainly wanted people to think he was.

Inelligible POTUS candidate or poseur?

I say both.

hrtshpdbox

The story isn't as great as the headline but wow.

They story is very subdued, they don't want to be accused of being crazies. As you note, though, one thing is for sure - "What makes anyone think Obama wasn't born in the U.S.?" turns out to be a pretty dumb question; at a minimum, O was saying so himself. I mean, I know the media doesn't care when a lefty lies...

Danube of Thought

Political Wire:

"A new Washington Times/JZ Analytics poll finds Mitt Romney edging President Obama nationally, 44% to 43%.

"Meanwhile, a YouGov/Economist poll finds Romney ahead 46% to 42%."

Incumbent not cracking 43%.

Some guy

"son of Kenyan finance minister"

Hey! I get emails from him all the time.

To think I've just been sending them to spam, when it was really the Community Organizer in Chief all along.

daddy

Beautiful story Jane.

Thanks for that.
Hope he and Amy's young un's become decent buddies.

Rick Ballard

"I'm concerned about what the lawabiding can learn from that night."

What I've learned is that everyone should have enough money to be able to live in a gated community with 24 hour security. A place where no one ever volunteers their own time to do a damned thing because you can hire somebody who has their name on their shirt to do all the piddly crap that might prevent you from projecting your half-assed understanding of the "importance" of the property being stolen to a monetary value under the deductible limits of your insurance policy. Somewhere where the losses due to continual thefts and burglaries never, ever grind on your life because your bubble is just so damned perfect that it's capable of blocking all thought and imagination.

That's what I've learned. That and carrying a loaded weapon can save your life.

Mark Folkestad

Jane, I'm not a great fan of social services. Two decades ago, my "slow" and "odd" niece (oxygen-deprived at birth) got pregnant by a black boyfriend. She was pressured by social services workers in the maternity ward to sign over the baby girl for adoption, and she signed. Several in our family tried to adopt the baby, but we were told the baby was "black", and could only be adopted by someone of her "race". Damn. My niece is 7/8 Norwegian and 1/8 Swedish, and she's even whiter than Liz Warren! The child was raised in a very bad inner-city neighborhood and got into very serious trouble with gangs. She's trying to straighten herself out, but it is very difficult for her. And she is resentful toward her maternal-side relatives because we "abandoned" her. She finally approached us when she graduated from high school. The young woman is absolutely beautiful, and has a great gift for photography. I'm hoping that her healing continues, and that she gets to know the family that social services deprived her of. Where is the justice in awarding custody of a mixed-race child to strangers, rather than blood kin who want her?

hrtshpdbox

I wonder what was offered to her for her silence.

What, being a fellow traveler isn't reward enough?

Janet

O was saying so himself.

Exactly. Obama is the "birther".
The rest of us Americans just wanted some clarity to his sketchy life. We knew what he told us was fiction.

Janet

What a great story, Jane! I love the "feel good story of the day" breaks.

Mark Folkestad

NK, now might be a good time to make a tactical retreat on the "moron issue". I'm backing Chas.

daddy

Jane,

As it develops, let us know if he has any hearing at all, or any chance of acquiring hearing ala Rush Limbaugh artificial ears.

The technology out there I know is amazing and I'm sure we'd all love to hear about it and see if there was any way we could help[.

Please keep us posted about "D."

daddy

And FWIW Jane,

Am listening to Biden via Rush screaming a speech about how he hates the rich, so yes feel free to use the word "retarded", especially if you use it in the phrase, "our retarded Vice president."

Jane

Oh he's already hearing. He just needed hearing aids. Imagine that!! And he's talking. And very bright.

I never cry and I spent lunch crying.

Porchlight

What, being a fellow traveler isn't reward enough?

Good point. But Dystel might be a different case because Obama screwed her over. After he was elected to the Senate in 2004 he found another agent to publish Audacity of Hope and Dystel was not too happy about it. This comes from an account from the guy at Random House (a lefty) who published Dreams. Interesting.

http://tcf.org/commentary/2006/nc1425

Jane

I promise I won't keep hijacking the thread but one more thing. The best friends have been working on this since the other family gave him up, many months ago. The boy just found out yesterday, walked into Mrs Best friends class and said: "Is it really true?" She showed him pix of the kids and dog and his new Dad and he was beside himself with joy - her too - and all of the rest of us, I suspect.

daddy

If Obama told his Literary Agent that he was born in Kenya, in order to enhance his chances of getting a book deal with his Literary Agent etc, and it now turns out that he was lying to his agent and was in fact born in Hawaii, can the Literary Agent now sue Obama for fraud?

Is there a Statute of Limitations on lies?

Another Bob

Rick Ballard | May 17, 2012 at 03:09 PM

+1

NK, I really don't understand what's in your head here.

Danube of Thought

Say in Blackjack you're dealt 16 and the dealer shows 10. The correct choice is totake a hit--every time. The fact that you often bust doesn't make it incorrect on those occasions.

Sara

NK: It is obvious your sympathies lie with Martin and that for some reason you want to excuse his aggressive assault and lay the blame on Zimmerman. Everyone is aware of this. There is zero evidence that I am aware of that George Zimmerman ever acted stupidly or irrationally in his role as a Watch person. Why do you insist that all of a sudden he changed his behavior in this case? It makes no sense. You excuse Martin's behavior, yet you won't give an inch on giving Zimmerman the benefit of any doubt.

Rick Ballard

"Incumbent not cracking 43%."

Funny how things change once the primary is over and the LIV's start paying attention. Governor Romney's strong start in making a good initial impression with low information voters indicates a level of revulsion with the President that job approval polling hasn't really highlighted.

The President obviously needs much more public exposure. He should demand at least six hours a week on all networks to explain why nothing bad is his fault and anything good is due only to his efforts.

Ignatz

I believe NK is wrong that Zimmerman acted stupidly or could reasonably have foreseen what happened and I don't agree with Cecil that Zimmerman would have been better off unarmed and I don't believe Zim did anything wrong.
Having said that it is a close question whether getting out of your SUV on a dark rainy night to observe someone you already believe is acting suspiciously is a good idea. I can't fault him for doing so, but I have a hard time faulting anyone who advises against it either.
It's unlikely something like this was going to happen but unlikely things have an odd way of happening rather frequently.
And having said that, it seems indisputable that with what we know it is in fact entirely Trayvon's fault that what occurred did occur.

Danube of Thought

Sitemeter confirms cob bostas is Dana Gilbert Ward of Pitzer College.

centralcal

Here, here, Rick B.

Although, Michelle, is doing her darnedest to hit every TV show possible. Now she is going to appear on my Saturday afternoon favorite - Restaurant Impossible. Blech!

daddy

Hopefully Elizabeth Warren will come forward as a character witness for Obama's suspect heritage.

Hopefully then Obama will come forward as character witness for Elizabeth Warren's suspect heritage.

Question?

How come there's a million Lawyer's running around suing for obscure stuff like Mesothelioma and Tennis Shoes that don't actually make you lose weight, but no Lawyer's ever pop up to sue Lawyer's who lie about their ancestry in order to game the system for personal gain?

Janet

Really makes me sick how Americans were mocked by the MFM for asking questions about Obama's made-up narrative.

centralcal

Sitemeter confirms cob bostas is Dana Gilbert Ward of Pitzer College.

As if the stupidity of his comments weren't clue enough? lol.

AliceH

The fact that you often bust doesn't make it incorrect on those occasions.

That logic makes sense to me, but falls on deaf ears for people who replace 'probable' with 'possible' in rating risks when they find a particular outcome too frightening.

Think anti-nuclear power people. It's not the probabilities of any ecological impact (relative to any other power source) driving their opposition - it's the scare factor of worst-case-scenarios excluding all other thought. That emotional positioning negates any chance of a rational discussion on the merits.

Ignatz

--Having said that it is a close question whether getting out of your SUV on a dark rainy night to observe someone you already believe is acting suspiciously is a good idea.--

Commenting on my own comment, my point is not that it is a bad idea because Zim might end up shooting a guy who attacks him, but rather for his own safety.
Zimmerman was in fact fortunate that Martin was only packing Skittles and tea [and a phone]. Had Martin a blade or gun Zimmerman would most likely be just one more nameless victim of street crime.

GMAX

I continue to search high and low for the blue tide. It has not yet turned up. Instead I get this:

State Senator Deb Fischer holds an 18-point lead over Democrat Bob Kerrey in the first Rasmussen Reports survey of the Nebraska U.S. Senate race since her upset win in last week’s state Republican primary.
A new telephone survey of Likely Voters in Nebraska shows Fischer with 56% support to 38% for Kerrey who is trying to reclaim the Senate seat he retired from in 2001. Two percent (2%) prefer some other candidate in the race, and three percent (3%) are undecided.

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Wilson/Plame