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June 12, 2012

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cboldt

That should cure Corey's popularity problem.

woo woo

"With Zimmerman’s wife getting arrested for perjury, this is getting out of hand – and it’s all O’Mara’s fault."

I reluctantly agree. Originally, I thought he seemed knowledgeable and even keel. He may be, but it isn't working here. I knew about the GZ site and donations before the bond hearing. Why not O'Mara? I don't know who knew what when, but it is now out of control. O'Mara should go back to TV commentary.

jwest

reposted from last thread..

If he had hired the right attorney, there would be 1000 people in front of the jail chanting for justice and Zimmerman’s release. There wouldn’t be a cable TV news show that didn’t have a segment featuring the guy pounding home the facts and asking how any real American could sleep at night knowing that an innocent man is being persecuted for political and racial reasons.

Corey is doing everything possible to get Zimmerman to plead out on some charge. She knows she doesn’t have a case, but as long as she’s not catching heat from the public time is on her side. If Zimmerman had the right representation, they would know the more publicity they had, the better.

Right now, he doesn’t need a trial attorney – he needs a courthouse steps attorney.

Bob

What exactly is his workload? I think he is working on stuff already further along in the pipeline and does not have time (yet?) to devote to this stinker. Can he not afford to devote all of his time to this mess because of overhead costs of his office? The slow walking of this case is not working but may have been his plan to let the crazy die down and get finished with his pending cases. It is not working.

Porchlight

The slow walking seemed like the right tack until this came up.

Why doesn't Dershowitz recommend someone who will fill the bill?

Danube of Thought

Can't say the wife doesn't derserve it.

goddessoftheclassroom

Paraphrase, to the best of my recollection:

"How much is in the account now?"
"I don't know. My BIL knows."

She didn't know at the moment of "now." How is that perjury???

Porchlight

That is about right. She was asked if she knew about the website (answer: yes) and how much was in the account at present. She said she didn't know, and offered to call the BIL to find out.

jwest

DOT, I would argue that she doesn’t deserve it.

She’s the wife of a person who was falsely charged and jailed for murder, left without income, fearing for her life and thrown into a court proceeding without an attorney competent enough to have foreseen the questions to be asked and to have known the answers beforehand.

Unless O’Mara had counseled her before the hearing as to what to say and she ignored his advice, she doesn’t deserve to be arrested. If he didn’t talk with her, or didn’t know every single detail about the website and the money, he should be fired for incompetence.

Annoying Old Guy

Maybe Dershowitz should take the case himself. Then he'd get his debate with Corey.

xbradtc

Hard to get a perjury conviction for "I don't know." as compared to "nothing" or some other specific amount.

Bob

A prosecutor harassing the defendant's family is a step too far. Where is the new co-counsel? I thought he was supposed to be a pit bull. Unless they plan to come out with a flamethrower at the new bond hearing, this will just encourage Corey who is obviously a basket case who has time to call HLS and tattle on Dershowitz. Maybe they are soft pedaling until they have their shit together but this is not encouraging. Maybe O'Mara wants them to look like martyrs to get more donations. Who knows.

tollhouse

It's not about the perjury, it's about pressuring Z to cop a plea and avoid protecting Corey from nationwide embarrassment.

tollhouse

Scratch the "avoid".

xbradtc

I'm sympathetic to Z, but if they DID conspire to hide the funds, that's a bad thing. I can understand the prosecution getting testy. And frankly, they've got a better case here than they do for the original charge.

Thomas Collins

Nothing has happened that suggests that O'Mara has done anything other than a fine job so far. You lie to a court, you put yourself at risk for this. I can understand why Mr. and Mrs. Z would do all they could to protect their assets. They have to understand that you don't mess with the judge.

lyle

Get bent, troll.

Too bad Johnnie Cochran, esq., has departed us. Oh, wait. Maybe Zimmerman would not be black enough for him.

narciso

When will Judge Lester put Corey in jail, for Mail fraud.

DrJ

Jeralyn had a post on Saturday that went through the bond revocation. She mentions that O'Mara had four days between being hired and the bond hearing.

There was a lot of work to be done in that time, and GZ had not been served with particular distinction by his previous attorneys. So establishing trust was part of that four days too.

lyle

OT:

Obama: The GOP stuck me with the tab for a steak dinner


http://hotair.com/archives/2012/06/12/obama-the-gop-stuck-me-with-the-tab-for-a-steak-dinner/

Thomas Collins

As far as the unfairness of it goes, sure it's unfair that OJ walks after murdering someone, Clinton doesn't spend jail time for his lies, and so on and so on and so on. And it's unfair that Corey brought this charge. I just hope there are sugar daddies and sugar mommies helping out Mr. and Mrs. Z, because they don't deserve what they are going through. But it looks as if with respect to this part of it, they brought it on themselves.

Carol Herman

Well, the pressure is on by the prosecutors to force the Zimmerman's to cop a plea.

The other thing to notice? There's no Paypal anymore that's turning into a cash machine.

And, our "justice" system went into the crapper when Sacco and Vanzetti became victims.

So there's nothing new under the sun, after all.

Only what works. And, what the prosecutors can bury. Because they really don't have a case. But they certainly do have the judge in their pockets! SHAME. SHAME. SHAME.

Broken. And, can't get fixed.

Bob

I consider this proprietorial harassment. This woman is in hiding. She could not finish her coursework for a career. She has no support. Her husband is unemployed, in jail. There are death threats, the media is running a personal injury lawyers PR spin as fact, and the prosecutor is appearing on television saying she is going to get justice for the person her husband claims he killed in self defense. What the hell did SHE do to deserve this from Corey. I think Corey has a screw loose and is a frigging monster.

Danube of Thought

"Did Trayvon deserve what he got from Z?"

Damn straight he did. And the world has lost a budding gangsta.

dublindave

Zimmerman gets donations intended for his legal defence to pay off....wait for it......to pay off his Sam's club credit card.

ROFLMAO.

Hey,if you're a Republican who sent money because you strongly believe in Zimmerman's
cause you probably didn't know that that cause was an XBOX with ten new games,an entire living room set,beer,potatoe chips,Pizza,earings....hah ha ha.

Ah man this is great.This completely undermines his credibility on so many levels...it's like Christmas has come early.

Thomas Collins

All true, Bob. And I acknowledge that if I had been in Mr. and Mrs. Z's position and had the money, I might very well have skipped to an remote island somewhere. But you don't mess with the judge.

Danube of Thought

I didn't realize that was the extent of the alleged perjury.

As I posted on the other thread, this is reminiscent of the way Giuliani squeezed Michael Milken using his brother Lowell.

Neo

"Did Trayvon deserve what he got from Z, or from the likes of you, psychopedophile."

Trayvon suffered from assholeitis

Threadkiller

DoT, my 6:10 post is the probable cause arrest affidavit

gus

Dana G Ward, of Shitzer College. http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/dward/index.html
That's your mentally ill troll.
Quite a looker!!!
Where are you tonight!!! Sweet Marie!!?

gus

I think a druggie, gangsta wannabee, with the obligatory tats and grill, and school suspensions and violent tendancies is really just an innocent black boy with Skittles and Iced Tea.

Skittles got his head blown off because he is violent. Whether Zimmerman buys Skittles and Iced Tea "Drank" with the donations to his cause, or not, doesn't change the fact that Skittles Martin's own violence got him killed. And he's still DEAD.

Sara

Everyone should read Jeralyn's post. The wife told the Court that the b-i-l was handling the funds and she did not know the amounts, but that the Court could call him on the phone to get the answer. Prosecutor and judge did not follow up.

I am not surprised she has been arrested. That is exactly what they do. They will do whatever they can to harass, especially if they have a weak case.

O'Mara needs a wake up. My own attorney went from a decent attorney to full bore bulldog ready to tear everyone a new one the day I was called at home and they demanded I show up the next morning for an interview at the station. When I said that I wouldn't come in without my attorney, they told me if I brought him, he would be subjected to arrest. When I repeated this threat to my attorney, he went ballistic and from then on it was game on between him and the other side. That was the first time I actually felt that I did have someone on my side and watching my back.

Where does O'Mara normally practice? IMO, the best advice I got was to hire an attorney who did not normally practice in my county and did not have a certain reputation to maintain with judges they might be appearing before for other or future cases. Of course, my 6 year nightmare was a police brutality civil case and not a 2nd degree murder criminal case. However, I think Z's case is still one of him against the system, the cops, prosecutors, etc. and has similar attorney and client pitfalls, if O'Mara does not wake up.

maryrose

Never get involved in any way with the penal or justice system. Never be in a position where police can question you. Never act in a questionable manner. When in conversation with a young person, {I'm a former teacher ) always keep the door open,especially if you are a male teacher. People can say anything they want about you and you are on the defensive.It's a jungle out there. I bet Zimmerman wakes up every day and wonders what hit him.

jwest

I’ve got to think that O’Mara, being an experienced attorney in preparation for a BOND hearing, may have had an inkling that at some point in the proceeding that the subject of the BOND may be raised. In that context, even if he only had 4 days to prepare, he should have been able to shield his clients from illegal activity and perjury.

If he had been the right attorney, he would have fought for immediate dismissal of the charges, saying that the state’s attorney could bring other charges if and when they had any evidence, and failing that, that Zimmerman should be released on his own recognizance.

When your client is drowning, you don’t wait until the rescue boat is serviced and you’re completed all the proper Coast Guard forms. Somebody’s got to jump in and save this guy.

centralcal

Way off topic (apologies) but too interesting to not pass on:

Andrew Kaczynski ‏@BuzzFeedAndrew
Newt Gingrich auditioning for the 3pm slot on MSNBC?

There has been a lot of speculation on who would fill the 3 pm slot. The idea that Newt might actually be trying out for the gig, kind of boggles the mind!

dublindave

Never get involved in any way with the penal or justice system. Never be in a position where police can question you. Never act in a questionable manner. When in conversation with a young person, {I'm a former teacher ) always keep the door open,especially if you are a male teacher. People can say anything they want about you and you are on the defensive.


I'd like to add;never follow and shoot unarmed black children at night time.It can get taken out of context so easily.

People are so quick to judge you when you kill children.

windansea

Jeralyn has a 4000 word post on this with all the actual facts.

Read it all, if still confused read the comments and responses, then you might be able to make a more informed comment here, so far most of you are way off track

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/5/223228/5631

Danube of Thought

TK, that sure looks like perjury to me.

Anyone else notice how distressed the trolls have been since Wisconsin? You can just see it dawning on them that it's all slipping away.

Ranger

You can just see it dawning on them that it's all slipping away.

Well, then they better not read this post at Hot Air:

Poll: Obama losing 20% of black vote to Romney in North Carolina?

Oh, and that post isn't just about NC. It has tidbits of other polls in there too.

When Obama has to spend money to run ads in the AA commuity this far out... the internals are terrible.

ObamaCo will be out of money by September at this rate.

Extraneus

People are so quick to judge you when you kill children.

You're funny, dd.

As for the wife, if all she said was "I don't know," then she's fine. Just prosecutorial over-reach, which wouldn't be surprising in this case. If she lied under oath, she's not fine and shouldn't be.

Threadkiller

She lied.

Ignatz

--did they consider the defense account their funds or sequestered or escrow funds? How would the court determine this? How would a reasonable person consider this?--

Read TK's link.
She was asked if she had any funds to pay for bond and had no estimate of what was in the paypal thing.
The records indicate she discussed paying his bond with the paypal thing and had a fairly intimate and pretty current knowledge of what was in it.
I think she cooked her own goose and may end up convicting George on a plea deal on a manslaughter charge he is almost undoubtedly not guilty of.
Brilliant, as our brit friends say.

Ignatz

Actual justice in this case would be George is found immune and his wife get's a perjury conviction.

GMax

Blacks and Jews abandoning Zero? Well not to worry he still has the unions...

jwest

Zimmerman should hire Jeralyn immediately.

NK

I would urge people to read the TalkLeft posting (provided in a comment above) that gives a timeline of the Paypal funds, the prison recordings and the testimony and post bond events. I plan on re-reading it and the attachments tonight. If the 'facts' recited there are accurate, O'Mara better swear out an affidavit accepting fault for not preparing a witness properly for the bond hearing such that she had no way of intending to mislead the court. Again, if the facts are accurate in that TalkLeft post, then the charge against Mrs Zimmerman says more about Corey than about either of the Zimmermans.

Sara

When Z put up his web page soliciting for donations, he said it was for legal and living expenses.

narciso

No, T.C. Berger, can destroy material records,
in order to 'shape' the previous administration's failure to challenge AQ in any significant way, and only be deprived of his license for a few years. Clinton can lie under oath, in a material matter, and subsequently become a multimillionaire.

rse

I don't know gmax. I have teachers telling other teachers to come read my posts.

The idea that they are to be told what to do and the system is being used against them so they cannot really teach. While the admins plan to live at a 6 figure taxpayer funded salary and then pension for the rest of their lives is hitting the teachers rather hard.

And they are not going to appreciate their unions involvement with the schemes.

Danube of Thought

Never punch a guy in the face if all you got is candy and watermelon juice. It can get you killed.

dublindave

Wow.I just saw a picture of Zimmerman's wife.Damn.That's top shelf stuff right there.

Lmao.......dang,brother......it kind of makes sense she was shopping at Sam's club(sure she wasn't working there too).

Ah man I love being a Liberal.Best of all worlds.

GMax

RSE

It was snark! He still has Michelle and Julia for sure though, and that insane black congresswoman from Houston too...

narciso

Not to mention, what was done to Yoo, Addington, Bybee,Rodriguez, Stimson, for trying to protect this country.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

I just quickly read the "information". The problem Shelly faces is that she told GZ over the phone on 4/16 that there was over 80k in his account. Between 4/16-4/19 she transferred roughly $75k from the GZ account to her own account. That would allow the inference that her testimony to the effect that she didn't have funds on hand to apply to bail was untruthful.

If the above facts are true -- and there appear to be phone transcripts and bank records to support them -- I would have to conclude her testimony on 4/20 was perjurious.

I would also note, that she needs her own lawyer and that Omara should not represent her.

Sara

Between 4/16-4/19 she transferred roughly $75k from the GZ account to her own account. That would allow the inference that her testimony to the effect that she didn't have funds on hand to apply to bail was untruthful.

I thought it was the brother-in-law who did the transferring.

Danube of Thought

"I just saw a picture of Zimmerman's wife"

With those teeth she could be Irish.

East Bay Jay

I like the 'here are my thoughts' trolls vs the cut and paste kind. Keep the crazy 'off leash' and the popcorn bowl full.

pagar

O/T This lady will never be arrested.

Apparently no major network reporting, no mobs in the street, just an ordinary every day murder.

"Two black teens allegedly stab to death white pizza delivery woman and mother Elizabeth Hutcheson in Georgia – American media silent".

http://tinyurl.com/6oo33c6

NK

JimR-- she'll need her own attorney, who'll probably wind up suing O'Mara. I'll re-read the Jerralyn time line, but right now I believe this charge says more about Corey than anything else. Corey 'puts up' her 'evidence' for Murder 2 as part of disclosure, she's widely ridiculed,rightly, for having no case, she picks a 1st amendment fight with Alan dershowitz of all people, and then charges the wife? Corey looks like a vindictive thug as far as I'm concerned.

AliceH

there are THREE accounts in play here, folks. The paypal account, GZ's Credit Union Acct, and GZ's wife's Credit Union Acct. The money being moved around referenced in the arrest/probable cause doc refer to money being moved between the two CU accts - NOT the paypal account.

I'm still reading Jeralyn's post, but seriously - as NK said above, read that first.

narciso

Recall she had to testify by phone, because the DOJ has allowed an atmosphere of lawlessness not only in Sanford,

jwest

I’ve had my lawyer for over 30 years and I’d trust him with my life, however, I would never hire him to handle any legal action for me.

He is there for advice and to help me hire whatever type of lawyer I need in any given situation. I don’t care if it is a traffic ticket, a murder charge, a tax issue or corporate litigation, there is always someone better suited for the job. Sometimes you want someone who is quiet and peers over his glasses at the opponents with an icy stare. Other times you need someone who will jump on the conference table and threaten the opposing lawyers with nailing their pets to their door.

Sometimes it’s better to be guilty and have the right lawyer than to be innocent and have the wrong guy.

rse

Gmax-I know it is snark. But I thought you would appreciate the rising sense of betrayal.

narciso

It's the same lawlessness, exhibited by Judge Vaughey, in 'Rosencranz' jurisdiction, and in California, where even an assistant d.a, is not immune,

Steve

"... I knew about the GZ site and donations before the bond hearing. Why not O'Mara? ..."

exactly. And then there is the minor fact that all the paypal money goes to O'Mara in legal fees. O'Mara must have known there was a large sum in the paypal account. For sure he had discussed his fee with Zimmerman prior to the bail hearing.

Ignatz

Having read Jeralyn's post I agree with everything she said about George.
However it is difficult to read the wife's conversation with George about using the monies they were moving around for his bond and then transferring $85,000 back to George's account four days after her testimony and not conclude she committed perjury.
Either that or she needs help tying her shoes.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

Jerralyn's excellent analysis relates primarily to how the latest development affects GZ's credibility. She concludes it should not, and I agree with her.

She also concludes Shelly truthfully answered the questions asked and argues she should not be held accountable because the questions were inartful.

Danube of Thought

Twenty-five yeras ago today:


"General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization, come here to this gate.

"Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."

On the morning of the day he died, he was the greatest man alive.

Steve

But the paypal money was effectively the lawyer's money. Once the Zimmerman's pay the lawyer's fee, they would have nothing left in the account.

henry

rse, my nieces in Teach for America have interesting opinions of the unions and senior teachers who become "mentors" in the program for extra cash / no work. My niece getting an Ed degree and her classmates see through the unions as well.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

I agree with Iggy about the 85k Shelly had in her account. On 4/20, that money was not in the Paypal account, but in hers. She was knowledgeable enough about it to describe it to GZ earlier in the week. That 85k was clearly an asset available from which a bond could be paid.

jimmyk

It seems that the more blatant lie was to O'Mara on direct questioning, though that could be explained by her not viewing those funds as available for bail. Saying "Currently, I don't know" regarding how much was in the Paypal account, or how much had been moved, doesn't strike me as perjury. She didn't deny the existence of the money. Jeralyn says that funds were coming in every day.

Apart from all that, what I don't know, and maybe the experienced litigators here can comment, is how often perjury is actually charged. I had the impression that it is rarely pursued relative to how often there is probable cause for it. So that suggests that the decision to charge often has an ulterior motive.

Extraneus

We know Jeralyn is a lib. Why would we read her and not you?

[Jeapordy final round music]

narciso

And CNN had an average of three polls, yesterday, that had them tied, which actually means up by three or for.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

Bernie asked Shelly this question:

And you mentioned also, in terms of the ability of your husband to make a bond amount, that you all had no money, is that correct?
To which she answered:

To my knowledge that is correct.

Since she knew she had at least $85k in her own bank account, she has a real problem IMO.

narciso

integrity, something some who pretended his son was killed in Iraq, will never be acquainted with

DrJ

jimmyk,

how often [is] perjury is actually charged.

I'm no experienced litigator, but my ex is. In her experience a perjury charge is rare. If you ever have watched a trial, it is amazing how often people lie even when there is substantial evidence to show that they are. They are almost never charged.

rse

henry-I wrote the previous posts on charters to give a heads up that it was being corrupted.

As you know that sort of problem is fixable if you are aware.

Got such an ugly response from a supposedly Rep consultant on education. Both sides want access to that ed trough and are not happy someone is objectively piercing through the rhetoric.

There was a mention about targeting your state for charters. I am fine with them as long as people understand the inherent conflicts with the accreditors. And the double-meaning language.

Just in case you might want to whisper that on.

henry

rse, consider it whispered.

sammy small

Blacks and Jews abandoning Zero? Well not to worry he still has the unions...

This cries out for another Hitler video clip

Danube of Thought

My experience is almost entirely in civil litigation, where perjury is committed wholesale and with impunity. The problem is that it's a private dispute, and if you bring the perjured testimony to the attention of a D.A. he won't touch it with a ten-foot pole.

But if you can persuade a trial judge that a party to the litigation has perjured himself, that party is toast--in the civil litigation. The chance that he will face criminal jeopardy is damn near zero.

Porchlight

On the morning of the day he died, he was the greatest man alive.

Yep.

I didn't realize that was 25 years ago today. Thanks, DoT.

Porchlight

Since she knew she had at least $85k in her own bank account, she has a real problem IMO.

If that is the case. It sounds like it is possible that the transfer to her account was made by the BIL.

It is so much bullsh*t that we're discussing it. She should have never even BEEN at a bond hearing for her husband. Nor should they have lost their jobs, gone into hiding, and needed to beg the public for funds in order to pay rent, grocery bills and attorneys. As well as bond. This is a process crime designed to force a plea and distract from the prosecution's crap case.

Ignatz

--My experience is almost entirely in civil litigation, where perjury is committed wholesale and with impunity...........The chance that he will face criminal jeopardy is damn near zero.--

I took the liberty of deleting your intervening words to more clearly show cause and effect, DoT.

Clarice

This all stems from what I believe to be a wrongful prosecution and I am watching the pointless destruction of this family. I'm with narciso--having watched high officials get away with everything including murder, I am really unhappy with our criminal law system.

We need a check on prosecutors and we need more even handedness.

Redbrow

Good to see DoT and Dumblin Dave continue their war on women.

AliceH

I still haven't finished reading Jeralyn's post, but what stands out to me are the amounts of the money transactions - all of them just under $10K, which is the amount that triggers a mandatory report by the financial institution to the fed (comptroller of currency? I forget which agency).

Rick Ballard

"I am really unhappy with our criminal law system."

Me too. It's not quite as bad as the President or Congress but it sucks all the same.

If only there were some grass root organization dedicated to change...

jimmyk

all of them just under $10K, which is the amount that triggers a mandatory report by the financial institution

I thought that was just for cash transactions. They did seem to choose the amounts that way, though.

GMax

It not just blacks that are racist for abandoning Zero its white yutes, college educated women and even the nonreligious:

Gallup Daily tracking indicates Barack Obama is receiving less support in the 2012 presidential election from some of the white subgroups that gave him the strongest support in 2008. These include non-Hispanic white registered voters who are 18 to 29 years old, female postgrads, and the nonreligious, among others.

Will the last one off the good ship Zero please get the lights or just go down with the ship? LOL

narciso

They mark the deck, all the prosecutors,
unexpectedly, signed the recall petitions,
in another instant, all the intervenors that
the APOC used come from one firm, Perkins and Coie, which are the President's counsel of record, and one of the Gitmo bar, that was mightily slapped down on Monday.

GMax

You dont get around the reporting of the transactions by doing multiple transactions under 10K the same day. Bank is suppose to aggregate them and report.

Chubby

I think that this question can only be justly considered if the exceptional circumstances they were in are also made part of the picture. How many people in a similar situation would be expected to act 100% rationally? with all that was going on, their thinking must have been somewhat muddled by fear.

Rick Ballard

GMax,

Think of the Three Stooges working through memories of ten seasons of Law and Order plus CSI Miami. None of this is the result of well informed thought. We aren't talking about the sharpest marbles in the drawer.

Jane

I think perjury is where prosecutors often go when they've got nothing but want something. See Scooter Libby.

The comments to this entry are closed.

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