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June 26, 2012

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Comments

narciso

An outfit with George Papandreou and Paul Volcker, what could go wrong, a little snark,
how about the actual transmission vector isn't that the problem,

narciso

It seems an odd parlay to put us in the same
parlay with China and Thailand, and Russia,

Rick Ballard

Narciso,

It's obviously an education problem. We're just not teaching these innocent youngsters about the slight drawbacks to taking up lifestyles which include anal sex and dirty needles to shoot up illegal drugs.

We wouldn't want the innocent lambs to take any unnecessary risks.

jimmyk

I think the WOD is a terrible waste quite apart from this particular issue. Discouraging demand is the better way to go, and not by putting users in prison either.

On the other hand, I was at a conference recently where an expert told me that the widely cited claim of a spike in the murder rate during prohibition is probably false, a figment of bad data. Or is that a "ferment" of bad data?

narciso

I see that Vargas Llosa is among the grandees, but ever since he flacked for the crazy Andean Chavez fillin, he's lost my vote.

MarkO

Were we to "win" this war, the economies of some major cities in the USA would collapse.

narciso

It's a cultural thing, but I don't see how moew acceptance of drug and other dodgy behavior actually help things along, and it looks like a Soros catspaw to boot.

jimmyk

And in case it isn't clear, free needle programs and the like don't fall under "discouraging demand."

A few on my list: Blowing up housing projects (after the tenants have moved out, of course) and eliminating those programs entirely; replacing public schools with voucher programs; eliminating the minimum wage.

Not realistic, I realize. But getting people out of those hellholes and giving them decent schools and job opportunities is a start.

rse

OT but this Australian poster needs circulation in the US if we are to avoid the Invisible Serfs Collar a 2nd term's policies would bring.

http://www.galileomovement.com.au/images/poster_campaign_800c.jpg

That Carbon Tax is what he wanted. All the ed policies are consistent with this transformational and centrally manipulated economic and social vision.

And it would have made the GS bankers very happy.

Neo

How Obama lost Canada

What’s more, by engaging in protectionism, Washington has violated the substance and spirit of the North American Free Trade Agreement, the trade bloc formed in 1994 among Canada, the United States, and Mexico. As a result, NAFTA, which was initially intended as a template for broader trade expansion by all three partners, has languished while each country has negotiated a spaghetti bowl of bilateral trade agreements with other countries. Trilateral economic summits among the NAFTA partners have become little more than photo-ops accompanied by bland communiqués. Bilateral meetings between U.S. and Canadian leaders, which were a regular feature of the Bill Clinton and George W. Bush eras, have also mostly fallen by the wayside. Meanwhile, the United States demanded upfront concessions from Canada as the price of entry to negotiations over the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a regional free-trade group, while preserving massive agriculture subsidies of its own. The protracted wrangling over a seat at the table does not augur well for meaningful progress.

Ignatz

Posted this in the other thread but seems much more apropos here:

Way, way OT but kind of sticking to the content warning subject brought up by Jim [Pussy in the Sopranos];
And I hope Jane will pardon my blatant stereotyping but it appears black dudes have been pretty cogent about that 'going all the way down' thing, as Barry put it.
Oral sex and the rise in throat-mouth cancer among men.
Now my question is, will the FDA require women to wear warning labels in their nether regions like on cans of chewing tobacco and cigarettes, or even worse, tiny video screens playing those commercials with the guy talking through the hole in his throat?

woo woo

"include anal sex and dirty needles to shoot up illegal drugs."

Someone received an advanced copy of the Democrat National Convention planned activities list for later this summer in NC.

Danube of Thought

There's only so many ways we can save them from themselves.

Frau Treu-sein-bis-ans-Grab

Faithfulness: the gift that keeps on giving.

narciso

If one can go 'Old School' Proverbs 29;18, when they have been led astray, it is hard to
get back on the right path, with the wrong map.

Porchlight

The WOD may seem like a giant waste, but I await evidence that ending it won't result in a worse situation than we have now.

I also notice that virtually everyone who recommends ending the WOD does not have small children.

Would love to hear serious suggestions as to how one decreases demand. Legalizing abortion resulted in more abortions. How does legalizing drugs not result in more drug use? And what are we talking about when we say "drugs"? Are people suggesting that narcotics should be legalized?

I don't want to live in a United States where crack and heroin are legal and easily available, thank you very much. If that makes me anti-liberty so be it.

NK

I'm with Porch. All of the legalization and decriminalization projects in Europe and the Left Coast USA have a shared result-- more crime more urban blight. Junkies don't burgularize and mug because the drugs they crave are illegal-- they burgularize and mug because they are junkies. Drugs are controlled not to protect the junky-- they are controlled to protect the law abidding. End of story for me.

Frau Treu-sein-bis-ans-Grab

It is a new talking point for useful progressive dupes to use the *cutsey* term "Rmoney" It's now a must-use to earn points with the Feather People. Watch for it in a blog near you.

As for Romney's wealth, he didn't get it by playing community agitator or having a guy in the neighborhood write his fake biography.

Short and sweet: Thomas Sowell's "The Left's Vocabulary."LUN

matt

The least funny thing to me is drug addiction and the war on drugs.

I was a typical child of my age and inhaled and did a few other things. It was part of being cool. then I saw the uncool part; friends who died from overdoses, friends so in love with the crack pipe they lost everything.

I know a little bit about addictive behavior as well and how one's genes can really throw a hardball that, if you're at risk, you have no chance.

The narcotics business exploded in the 1960's, and marijuana has to be included in that catchall. Then came the War on Drugs. Billions upon billions upon billions of dollars have been spent and the War is lost and huge bureaucracies are built upon law enforcement and incarceration. We have the largest prison population in the world.

To paraphrase Willie Sutton, the drugs come here because that's where the money is.It all evolves from greed and the willingness to prey upon one's neighbor.

F&F was supposedly about stopping the cartels. Instead, we facilitated their crime.

The drug business is so huge that it would be foolish to think that there is not involvement at the top in this country. How close is the question.

Either that or we as a government and nation are more incompetent than Baby Huey, which may also be true. Maybe it's the drugs themselves that have addled us as a society.

What I do know is that so much of the problem comes from within. We will spend billions on law enforcement, but we cannot seem to spend money on the creation of the ethical and social structure to shield our young and those at risk.

Then, we also will no longer contemplate the facilities and services necessary for those who cannot help themselves, to help solve another part of the problem.

You can talk about inner cities and jobs and the need to escape from a harsh reality through drugs, but in reality a large portion is the path of "fun" or "cool" or plain boredom. Only then does the door to addiction open.

We have the Right demanding law and order and the Left, like Bloomberg yesterday at the gay pride parade saying something idiotic like "New York is a place where you can do whatever you want to do", unless it involves smoking, trans-fats, or soft drinks.

The answer goes much more to the heart of the issue and to the pragmatic, I believe.

Regular terrorism as well as narco-terrorism, is funded to a large part with drugs. From the IRA and PLO to the Taliban money buys a lot of weapons and ammunition and protection.

Until we begin to think about the real answers, we're doomed.

narciso

And we are moving far away from such a path, as rse has chronicled, the problem didn't really expand till there was widespread cultural acceptance, of said practices,

Frau Treu-sein-bis-ans-Grab

Sobering thoughts, matt, and scenes from downtown Zurich and Basel are not reassuring.

TexasIsHeaven

My Serious Suggestion

And I am dead serious - I mean this. I would allow anyone eighteen or older to grow, purchase, or procure any drug they wanted to use. The only requirement would be that they must reside in California, Oregon, Rhode Island, Michigan, Washington, D. C., or Connecticut. They could not live any other place in the United States. If they moved to any other state they would be immediately arrested and put into prison for ever. It would make life much more simple for the rest of us and save a ton a money.

Frau Treu-sein-bis-ans-Grab

What about NYC, Texas?

Captain Hate

It is a new talking point for useful progressive dupes to use the *cutsey* term "Rmoney"

I may be behind the times on street lingo (it's like trying to catch smoke) but that sounds more like a term of respect or endearment to me. Are you sure it's not some out of touch boomers using terms they don't understand used by people they don't interact with?

Charlie (Colorado)

The WOD may seem like a giant waste, but I await evidence that ending it won't result in a worse situation than we have now.

The convenient part about this is that, since you're waiting for evidence that ending the war on drugs won't make things worse, and using that to argue against ending the war on drugs, you pretty well guarantee you'll never have to worry about having to consider the evidence.

Barry Dauphin

Actually, I thought the biggest news from this article is that Richard Branson is a "world leader"! Who knew?

Ignatz

Opium was legal up until about 1900.
Were we more crime ridden and drug addled before that?
Have we become more crime free and less drug addled since it was banned?
And has it become less or more widespread after it was banned?
A relatively successful societal and governmental war has been waged on tobacco use over the last fifty years. If we have to have a war, might that be a better model than the current one which seems to have essentially no success that I can readily discern?

narciso

Thanks, fRau, that was before Luke visited Jabba's palace though, Even the wonderful
People's Republic of Sweden, seems to suffer
from the problem, at least if one takes Jens
Lapidus at his word, Russia was one of those places hollowed out by the likes of Sachs and Summers as I recall, as the Nomenklatura became the Oligarchs and the Siloviki.

TexasIsHeaven

Yes Frau TsbaG,

I did consider NYC - and Bloomberg is such a whinebag and weenie - I could cheerfully slap the hell out of him everytime I see him - but - (I was in my teens before I learned Damnyankee was actually two seperate words) but - as long as I live I will never forget how the people of NYC rose up on Sept 11 and made us all proud to be Americans.
Now when I say Damn Yankee I say it with respect. But they got to do something about that mayor - he's got to go - what an embarrasment he has to be.

narciso

1912, the French tried to use it as a revenue source, hence the Banque de Indochina, but that didn't really take, and somewhere along the line, we forgot the point of the Opium Wars.

Sue

What about NYC, Texas?

I almost had a heart attack. I thought you meant move NYC to Texas. Whew...

Jim Ryan

WUWT on ruling about EPA. The comments are gloomy.

matt

Actually, Iggy, we were. The slums were hell holes far beyond today's versions. Opium addiction was a serious problem, often as laudanum drops for "ladies problems". We had a lot of strung out ladies sort of like Earp's wife in "Tombstone". It became unacceptable and dangerous.

There was a reason it was made illegal at the time.

Porchlight

Opium was legal up until about 1900.
Were we more crime ridden and drug addled before that?
Have we become more crime free and less drug addled since it was banned?
And has it become less or more widespread after it was banned?

You can hardly compare a pre-automobile society to our current one. Opium simply was unavailable in 99.99% of neighborhoods, as well as heavily stigmatized. Unknown what the demand for it would have been with a distribution system similar to heroin's today.

jimmyk

Porch, I wasn't advocating turning us into Amsterdam, but there's a Grand Canyon-like range between the WOD and libertarian heaven. I think Iggy's example of tobacco is a good one. But my main point is that drugs are so profitable that trying to stamp out the suppliers is hopeless. As soon as you catch one, another will jump in. I just don't see that as a fruitful strategy, and it is a huge diversion of police resources.

Ignatz

--You can hardly compare a pre-automobile society to our current one.--

Then we should ban cars.

lyle

I think pot should be decriminalized.

NK

Ig-- there was far less disposable income in the world available to earn or even steal pre-1900, and the intrinsic cost of Opium was far higher than today's drugs especially the inorganic designer chems-- hence Opium was not a drug of the people, it was the addiction of the rich. That's why the rich had it banned, to protect the members of their class.

CharlieinCO I vigorously disagree, the legalization/decrim projects in Switz. Swe. netherlands and San Fran show that while enforcement costs are cut, the social costs of legalization skyrocket. That's a empirical fact you have to deal with.

pagar

If anyone is keeping track, put me in the column with Porchlight. In addition, I believe one should consider any thing the UN talks about or does as being Anti American. Every penny spent on the UN is a criminal waste, IMO.

TexasisHeaven has some good thoughts, but first I think there would have to be a clean sweep of the other states. Has anyone ever heard of a state that doesn't have drug problems. IMO, it is like the rotten apple in the barrel. Once one gets into the barrel, more and more are found.

Ignatz

--The slums were hell holes far beyond today's versions.--

Because of opium or because society as whole was vastly poorer and so the slums were vastly poorer?
I have no doubt the slums were worse, materially speaking, but have seen no evidence they were worse criminally or morally.
Is there a reliable citation to show they were?

NK

Ig@2:11-- Mayor Mike Bloomie couldn't have said it better!

Porchlight

I just don't see that as a fruitful strategy, and it is a huge diversion of police resources.

Depends on how you define fruitful and diversion.

The corners of my city are not littered with junkies, and petty crime is low, and most middle schoolers and high schoolers neither use narcotics nor know people who use narcotics.

How many police resources would go to controlling the rise in crime that would go hand in hand with legalization? Bust someone for possession now or bust them for burglary later. I'd rather have the former because the law-abiding citizen is less at risk.

Success is in how you measure it.

Porchlight

Then we should ban cars.

Be serious, Iggy. You can't compare 19th century demand for opium (which never increased substantially despite legality) to today's demand (which is fully established despite illegality).

Or perhaps the demand never increased because it was made illegal in 1900.

Jane

I fully expect Obama to decriminalize pot before the election. I can't imagine why users would want pot legalized because the regulation will kill the quality.

A few years ago MA decriminalized pot. If you get caught with it, it's a $200 fine. A cop told me they never created the bureaucracy to collect the fine so no one ever knows (or cares) if you pay it.

Ignatz

--hence Opium was not a drug of the people, it was the addiction of the rich--

I consider it doubtful Chinese opium dens in San Francisco were full of millionaires.

Porchlight

The convenient part about this is that, since you're waiting for evidence that ending the war on drugs won't make things worse, and using that to argue against ending the war on drugs, you pretty well guarantee you'll never have to worry about having to consider the evidence.

You could say that about any major change in policy. Those that asserted that there was no evidence that enacting Obamacare wouldn't make things worse used that to argue against enacting Obamacare, and never had to worry about considering the evidence, etc.

Ignatz

--Be serious, Iggy. --

Why?
The world has enough serious minded people.
Guys who are naturally squirrely like me have no need of drugs.

Frau Geldbeutel

Nah, CH, no respect is attached as far as I've seen. "Rmoney" is used to stoke class hatred of the so-called 1%ers (forget the rich Democrats who use their $$ wisely). Cleo, Pisher College Clown, likes it. Consider the source.

Speaking of jokes, we walk past a car with a load of bumper stickers. One says "People over Politics." Next to it is "Vote Democrat." It's always good for a chuckle.

Sue, that should have been "What about NYC, TexasIsHeaven?"

Chubby

NEO

If the Canadian P.M. was not a conservative, but a lefty liberal instead, I'm sure the relationship would be going along swimmingly. Cross-border political partisanship and all that.

woo woo

Ofoodstamps.

NK

San Fran did have a unique 19th century ethnic difference that made opium use more available than the rest of the USA. But that was an ethno/geographic quirk. Say, come to think of it, maybe that 19th century quirk explains alot about today's San Fran-- things like crazy Nancy P and child porn human rights commissioners.

Ignatz

The only unanswerable argument to justify the WOD that I have seen is 'it would be even worse if we didn't have it'.

My question is how does that claim differ materially from Barry's claim that without the stimulus the economy would be worse off?
Both are similarly unprovable aren't they?

The only difference I can discern is you don't have to be a Keynesian to argue for drug legalization but you do have to be on drugs to think the stimulus worked.

James D.

Porch, in theory I agree with you. But it seems to me that we've got the worst of both worlds now - tens of billions of dollars spent on the WoD, AND lots of crime and societal damage from drugs and drug-related crime.

There has to be some kind of middle ground.

There has to be some way where we can maybe get rid of the no-knock SWAT-team raids and proliferation of military hardware and training even to small police departments that don't have the remotest need for it, abuse of civil-asset forteiture, ever-expanding restrictions on things like the purchase of Sudafed, and all the rest of the insane excesses of the WoD - but at the same time not just legalize everything and sell heroin in vending machines at the mall.

Ignatz

--SOB--

Hard to tell what that orphaned comment means after Tom employs the pooper scooper. :)

Porchlight

Yes, James D. But I am countering arguments that we should legalize, not arguments that we should lighten up on certain egregious WOD tactics.

Captain Hate

Hmmmm, I wish I'd seen what Frau was responding to before the turn-vac was mercifully employed

Frau Geldbeutel

TM- it's a delete button *and* a dessert topping! Thank you so much.


"Guys who are naturally squirrely like me have no need of drugs."
Iggy, is there a place for those like us to meet? And I'm more than 1/32 squirrely. How about you?

Captain Hate

errrr turd-vac

narciso

Yes she was an import from Westeros (I mean Baltimore) don't know about Grinken, but it's much like Bernie Ward and his research, ahem

Chubby

((the same time not just legalize everything and sell heroin in vending machines at the mall.))

that sounds lucicrous doesn't it? so did the idea of gay marriage, and not that long ago.

the more lax and permissive society becomes, the more community standards will exponentially worsen, until the society is utterly destroyed, from inside or from outside, -- or it retraces its footsteps back to tougher controls. The way things are going now, that job will be left to generations down the road who will be forced to clean up the dangerous gutter their forebears left to them

Jack is Back

Since I don't have time to read every thread here, this may be old news to some and new news to others:

GZ Passed CVSA (lie detector) Test - No Deception Indicated

Ben Crump, "find me plan B".

Ignatz

--Iggy, is there a place for those like us to meet? --

Yes, it's called E-Squirrely.

--And I'm more than 1/32 squirrely. How about you?--

I'm full blooded grey squirrel. I'm a Sagittarius and I enjoy long walks on the beach, but crossing the street with me can be a real adventure.

Frau Geldbeutel

Anyone who has had drugs destroy a family member wishes there were a way to put some kind of brakes on the use. We watched a documentary about human (sex) trafficking which showed a rural Moldavian family in which the parents and most relatives were alcoholics. It was equally tragic.

daddy

OT,

Just in from having a cyst removed, so all I've done so far is lie around getting cut while listening to Rush on the headsets.

In hour 2 he did a large segment on the new Aaron Sorkin HBO Show, "The Newsroom". (I haven't seen it and suspect I'll never see it.)

Rush was reading an oped by somebody I can't locate. The overall point was that it is a fantasy world created by Sorkin to make Lib's feel good about themselves and their world view. It is fictional rewrites of history the way Lib's wish they had acted and the way they wish things had actually turned out, complete with buffoonish Right Wingers making points that they are able to refute now by perfect Lib arguments spouted by Lib newscasters that in reality they never could come up with at the time.

Overall point is that it is a wishful thinking fantasyland that they are retreating into as opposed to dealing with reality.

I found the segment fascinating because last night on the dog walk, after my usual shows and the Mariner Ball Game were over, I flipped over to the Local Lefty on our NPR type channel, and she was going on and on about how she "Loved, loved, loved, loved, loved" this wonderful new Aaron Sorkin Show on HBO. She said the Newscaster was Jeff Daniels who comes across as an intelligent Keith Obermann type who gets exasperated periodically, but who is great, and the new director Sam Watterson is absolutely marvelous, and she is so happy it has been uploaded to YouTube because now she can watch it over and over again and she's not a television watching gal, but now she is yearning for the next episode come Sunday, and she hasn't loved anything so well since "The West Wing", and she is still in love with whoever played the President in that fantasy.

I was surprised to hear her go on and on about a TV show like that, so catching Rush's take on it suddenly made a lot of sense to me.
If anyone knows what Oped Rush was reading, please post a link. Thanks.

Chubby

JiB

I had not seen that, thanks for the link. Besides the results, the fact that he volunteered to take the test, proves he had no intent or need to lie about anything.

AliceH

O/T I've been notified that my work contract has been extended through end of the year. Thanks to all the well-wishers.

Chubby

((Anyone who has had drugs destroy a family member wishes there were a way to put some kind of brakes on the use.))

Hi Frau, I missed you and am glad you solved your exclusion problem.

I wonder how many kids who got busted found it to be the wake-up call that turned their life around. That is how some people respond to adversity, instead of whining about it.

pagar

I believe this is on topic because which ever Obama regime clown came up with this idea must be on drugs.

"New Program Teaches Border Agents to Flee and Hide When Confronte"

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/new-program-teaches-border-agents-to-flee-and-hide-when-confronted/

IMO, the Obama regime is determined to make America the laughing stock of the world.

Frau Geldbeutel

daddy, now cyst-less in Anchorage, it goes to show what a regular guy with a good stash of peyote and other drugs can do for himself in Hollywood. Just think what Horatio Alger, Jr. could have done for the youth of America if he had spiced it up a bit in his stories.

"An intelligent Keith Olbermann"-- Now there's a stretch.

Captain Hate

daddy, I was listening to Rush earlier and are you sure he wasn't saying that about Teh West Wing? I remember when that was on and libs were acting like it was a rehash of the Slick years without the President being a sexual predator and who had some organization to his life.

Libs always live in a Peter Pan world where Jerry Sandusky is just that loveable old guy that has a lot of kids hanging out.

rse

Well Alice, congrats. That keeps the ball in your court then. Always a good place.

pagar-so right on the UN. Poor me has to read those reports. I have said Rio+20 was an excuse for an expensive party but I think the real action was at the Planet Under Pressure Conference in March in London.

I have been bouncing around the world via the Internet in the last week trying to alert people there is no need for further treaties at this point as long as the Western countries have leaders who will funnel money to these groups.

One of GWB's biggest mistakes was rejoining UNESCO.

Captain Hate

"An intelligent Keith Olbermann"-- Now there's a stretch.

Tall Robert Reich
Slim Muffer Stalin Rodham
Celibate Slick
Sober Tweety
Camera-shy Schumer
Pale Boehner
Hard-working JEF

Janet

If anyone is keeping track, put me in the column with Porchlight.

Me too. I'd also add that the more Godless a society becomes the consequences of these now legal vices will be worse. As society lowers it's moral standard, then the edgy depravity gets even lower still...gambling, sex addiction, drug use, youth crime...
Most of us grew up in a time when most of the people around us had some moral standards, so even if we dabbled in something illegal we were cautious & had some shame. No more. The boundaries are disappearing & there is no limit to the depravity of humans.

Porchlight

Congrats AliceH. I hope the result is what you hoped for!

Clarice

Great, Alice!

Captain Hate

Congrats Alice; assuming that's what you wanted

Captain Hate

I'm with Porch and would like to add to what Janet said that not everybody is well equipped to exist in a libertarian society. I've been fortunate enough not to have an addictive personality other than posting on the internet; which I assume is somewhat harmless. In that regard I'm kind of a genetic outlier in my family; at least on one side.

Captain Hate

addictive personality should be addictive physiology

daddy

"put me in the column with Porchlight...
Me too. I'd also add that the more Godless a society becomes the consequences of these now legal vices will be worse."

Speaking of The Anti-Christ...

James Delingpole on a role over at the UK Telegraph!

Captain Hate

Another miserable day in Room 666 at Pitzer.

daddy

Tall Robert Reich
Slim Muffer Stalin Rodham
Celibate Slick

LOL Captain. Great stuff.

I think the Limbaugh reading was from some Blog, so I'll keep checking throughout the day. He was whacking away at both Sorkin shows, but perhaps the anesthetic was stronger than I expected:)

BTW, John Edwards and Reille' have split up:(

Oh well, "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, its a made for TV movie.

Jane

BTW, John Edwards and Reille' have split up:(

Wasn't it nice she stood by her man while he was at trial?

matt

as long as it wasn't a porcupine quill, daddy.

Opium was a commodity in the 1800's like tea. Huge amounts were grown in India by the British in order to gain an item of trade that would be valuable to the Chinese, who had a corner on the world's silver. China would take only silver as a unit of exchange for their tea.

When the Chinese, who were being overrun with opium by the 1830's, objected on moral grounds, the British insisted upon free trade and open ports. The Chinese began destroying opium shipments.

This resulted in the first Opium War 1839-42, which opened several ports, including a village in a mudflat that became Shanghai.

The Chinese were still very angry, so the second war was fought in the early 1860's. Britain exported approximately 75-80 tons/year, which covered the tea trade.

Exporting tea bushes was prohibited and the death penalty was invoked. A British adventurer was able to smuggle a number of plants out, which became the basis for almost all tea around the world with the exception of places like Japan and SE Asia, which were insular.

China descended into a client state with the world's largest drug problem. The opium trade was one of the primary emasculants, if you can use that word, of Chinese imperial power and a grave moral crisis which the Chinese have never forgiven the British for entirely.

Opium was a value add for American clipper ships on the China run and so while slightly more expensive than directly from India, it was a highly profitable commodity.

Chinatowns were considered special dens of iniquity as a result. By the 1890's most big cities had them, and the tremendous anti-Asian xenophobia of the time can be traced to this as a major contributing factor. Later, the jazz culture introduced morphia and heroin to the world.

ain't history interesting?

narciso

Congrats, Alice,

jimmyk

I'm with Porch and would like to add to what Janet said that not everybody is well equipped to exist in a libertarian society.

There seems to be a bit of a straw man thing going on here, as I don't know that anyone has really advocated an all-out libertarian approach. (Not picking on you in particular, CH.) If forced to choose, I might prefer that to the all-out WOD complete with civil forfeiture, SWAT teams, etc. But fortunately we don't have to choose between those two.

Porchlight

OT,

Looks like McCaskill will not attend the DNC. Surprise.

Captain Hate

I was just making a general statement and not in opposition to anybody, jimmyk; so no offense taken by your comment.

Chubby

((Later, the jazz culture introduced morphia and heroin to the world.))
Matt

wasn't morphine "introduced to the world" as a painkiller by the so-called medical profession of the 1800's?

Porchlight

That was my understanding, Chubby - Long Day's Journey Into Night comes to mind.

jimmyk, although it may not have been explicitly stated, I understood that several commenters do advocate legalization of both pot and narcotics. That was what I was arguing against. If I misread anyone I apologize.

Certainly there are tactics in the WOD that I would be open to eliminating; however, broadly speaking "ending the WOD" to me = legalization/decriminalization.

Jack is Back

Alice,

That's great news.

OT: New hash tag at twitter that is laugh-of-the-day. Dave Burge has the winner so far:

David Burge ‏@iowahawkblog
#QuestionsThatStumpObama why are you only creating jobs in the states that didn't vote for you?

jimmyk

"ending the WOD" to me = legalization/decriminalization.

That may be part of the confusion here. I think of the WOD as a distinct policy beginning in the 70s. Narcotics, pot, hallucinogens have been illegal for a long time.

I do favor *some* decriminalization, but not the libertarian extreme.

Frau Eichhoernchen

Rielle stood by her man until her book was ready, I betcha.


Iggy, I'm not one of the cute European red squirrels that get their pictures in fairy tale illustrations and on German YouTube.* I'm not one of the insidious and vulgar, introduced eastern fox squirrels which destroy gardens and chew through telephone wires. I'm just a fluffy-tailed native western gray squirrel trying to watch my step in public.
LUN*

Porchlight

Thanks jimmyk, that clears it up somewhat.

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