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June 30, 2012

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sailor

According to reports, Holder is so furious that he has gone to Disney World!

Jack is Back

This is a tease. Holder, et. al. know there are more devastating documents in Issa's possession. I wonder if he is considering the "chinese water torture" strategy until Holder either resigns or gives up the docs?

I also wonder if there is a "smoking gun" in any of the docs that ties the DoJ very closely to knowing that the Terry killing was part of an ambush they could have warned him about?

Richard Aubrey

Jack is Back.
What is unfortunate is that, while it is not shown, and may not even be the case, there is no problem presuming the DoJ would actually have done that.

DublinDave

"This is a tease. Holder, et. al. know there are more devastating documents in Issa's possession."

Yeah,this is just Issa teasing us,yeah.He knows he's got more than this,why else would he damage the Attorney general of the United states for nothing,heh heh,that doesn't make sense.Issa's got more,he's got the real goods.Yeah.He has.

"I wonder if he is considering the "chinese water torture" strategy until Holder either resigns or gives up the docs?"


Yeah,the chineese water torture,yeah.,smart strategy.Sure,holder's offered Issa the documents on-oh-two occasions already, but Issa's got a different method.The chineese water torture,yeah.


"I also wonder if there is a "smoking gun" in any of the docs that ties the DoJ very closely to knowing that the Terry killing was part of an ambush they could have warned him about?"

Yeah,the smoking gun proving that Holder and Obama intentionally allowed Terry to be murdered so that they could curb second amendment rights,yeah,the smoking gun,yeah.




DublinDave

You gotta love this Issa character.Knowing he has absolutley zero and has Damaged the GOP as a result of his partisanship,he's going to continue shaking the tree till something,jesus,anything falls out.Shall we refer to this new congressional invetigatory strategy as the 'something,Jesus,anything'approach?

Jane

Two really good articles: Andy McCarthy here and the CNS article about Dennis Burke and how cozy he is with Obama, Napolitano and the whole disgusting crowd here.

The noose tightens - the media is silent.

Appalled

DD:

While I can understand your victory laps on the Supreme Court decisions, your happy dance on Fast and Furious (oh boy! a successful cover up! I love me some neo-Nixon executive privelege) and Zimmerman (woo hoo -- break out the ropes and some prison rape because everyone needs a really expensive day in court) suggest a very shallow, football match approach to politics.

Why don't you shut down the computer, have some beer with your mates at the pub, get sloshed, and be part of the crowd that beats up a Paki at 2AM?

maryrose

Holder couldn't get the word out fast enough that his DOJ would not be prosecuting him. Media followed suit. Methinks he is scared --itless and can't wait for his Obama pardon at the eleventh hour. The civil case should proceed and pin the tail on this donkey.

Ignatz

--Why don't you shut down the computer, have some beer with your mates at the pub, get sloshed, and be part of the crowd that beats up a Paki at 2AM?--

Appalled,
Is there evidence suggesting WeeDavey has ever posted here in a state of non-inebriation? He somehow manages to slur even his keyboard speech.

DublinDave

--Why don't you shut down the computer, have some beer with your mates at the pub, get sloshed, and be part of the crowd that beats up a Paki at 2AM?--

Appalled,
"Is there evidence suggesting WeeDavey has ever posted here in a state of non-inebriation? He somehow manages to slur even his keyboard speech."


Heh heh,the natives are getting restless and to be honest,I don't blame them.Every media outlet in the country is impatiently waiting for Issa to produce substantial evidence of the cover up he's accused the administration of.So far all his antics have produced nothing.

This was possibly a blatant move by the Obama administration to take back the house, at least make signifcant inroads into it's numbers by making the Republican side look even more reckless and wasteful than it's already perceived by much of the public.

Offering documents with contempt charges taken off the table and invoking executive priveldge is just enough to hint at a cover-up that'll keep the right chasing their tails till November.


Again,every medii outlet is waiting for the smoking gun in the fast and furious case....you need to produce it quickly.

Threadkiller

Is there evidenc that e duda can beat up an egg, let alone a Paki?

Ignatz

--Again,every medii outlet is waiting for the smoking gun in the fast and furious case....you need to produce it quickly.--

There are already several thousand smoking guns and apparently over 100 dead bodies next to them including two US law enforcement guys. That the ATF allowed guns to cross the border that they could have interdicted is beyond dispute; they admit it in their own internal communications.
There is no question scandalous conduct occurred which resulted in many actual murders. The only question now is who knew what when. Holder's and Barry's conduct suggests there is something to hide.
But you keep flakking for the 21st century's Haldeman and Ehrlichman there Inchworm. It becomes you.

DublinDave


I'd like to add a number 5.

We kicked your ass in baseball.

Jesus,you're like the biggest losers on the face of the planet.

Jane

Dudu,

AT Least 4 "smoking guns" were released yesterday. Did you miss them?

Captain Hate

Appalled once again shows his cred as an honest lib who, although we may disagree on things, usually presents his points coherently and doesn't act like an embarrassing stooge.

DublinDave

"There are already several thousand smoking guns and apparently over 100 dead bodies next to them including two US law enforcement guys. That the ATF allowed guns to cross the border that they could have interdicted is beyond dispute;"

It's completely in dispute and it's patently false to suggest that there was a gun walking programme.The ATF agents directly involved in the'fast and furious 'case have already produced documents that prove that there was no operation designed to walk guns across the border and that they tried at every turn to make arrests.The real scandal was their efforts being hamstrung by weaks laws and weak prosecutors.


I'm sorry, but internal communications between officials who have absolutely nothing to do with the case on the ground but who seem aware of the outside political pressure, isn't really an accurate reflection of what happened.


By limiting the scope of the investigation for partisan purposes,Issa has walked your party into a really serious and damaging public relations nightmare that isn't going away anytime soon.


But still you're clinging to emails from people with limited knowledge of what was happening thousands of miles away to prove that this was a plot to hurt gun rights.I suppose that the ATF agents should have taken Issa's advice and conducted illegal gun seizures.


That cliff is crumbling away day by day,Ignatz.

Roland THTG

DumbleDave,
Damn you are thick.

Jane

It sure is Dudu but not in the way you want.

Roland THTG

The ATF agents directly involved in the'fast and furious 'case have already produced documents that prove that there was no operation designed to walk guns across the border and that they tried at every turn to make arrests.The real scandal was their efforts being hamstrung by weaks laws and weak prosecutors.
This is factual bullshit.

Ignatz

--I'm sorry, but internal communications between officials who have absolutely nothing to do with the case on the ground but who seem aware of the outside political pressure, isn't really an accurate reflection of what happened.--

The internal documents were from ATF field agents pleading to stop the insanity of letting guns cross the border not to mention FFLs pleading the same thing, you liar. There are also internal documents from the prosecutors and ATF agents in AZ responsible for the gunwalking admitting it in their emails. If these documents do not exist then perhaps you could explain why DOJ retracted the document claiming no guns were walked across the border and why Holder retracted and "corrected" what he said.

--The ATF agents directly involved in the'fast and furious 'case have already produced documents that prove that there was no operation designed to walk guns across the border and that they tried at every turn to make arrests.The real scandal was their efforts being hamstrung by weaks laws and weak prosecutors.--

Read the story on Burke. He was the prosecutor running the program and is a rabid anti gunner. Moreover these supposedly weak laws are used many thousands of time a year to interdict straw purchases. They expressly avoided applying these laws in order to build a case when the weapons were used in crimes and then identified.
Moreover the ATF agents involved in letting the guns walk may or may not be facing some criminal jeopardy but they are almost surely facing some civil jeopardy and so have a very great incentive to mislead and lie.

I've been an FFL for almost thirty years and know this shit backwards and forwards moron, so you should find another hobby horse to ride before you get saddle sores.

DublinDave

"They expressly avoided applying these laws in order to build a case when the weapons were used in crimes and then identified."

Name the agents involved in the 'fast n furious' case who refused to apply existing laws to make an arrest of Straw purchasers.Also,link to the documents that prove this.

"Moreover the ATF agents involved in letting the guns walk may or may not be facing some criminal jeopardy but they are almost surely facing some civil jeopardy and so have a very great incentive to mislead and lie."


There was one agent iwho acted independantly by allowing guns to walk, but he wasn't part of any ' gun walking'operation.He became a whistleblower and his integrity is now being questioned.Name the others and please link to evidence that proves their involvement in a specific gun walking operation.If this was an actual operation,then there's going to be more than one person invloved,right?

Thank you.

'I've been an FFL for almost thirty years and know this shit backwards and forwards moron, so you should find another hobby horse to ride before you get saddle sores.'

Lol.....what a dork!

Dave (in MA)

Fast and Furious
Still A
B F D

There ought to be a T-shirt.

Ignatz

I notice when you're not just advancing opinions but are projectile vomiting lies your self described good nature and sense of humor are starkly absent.

MarkO

Look, Mom, a sociopath!

Ignatz

These three
different
sources will provide you with all the information you need regarding how many and which agents and FFLS were involved in whistle blowing if you choose to educate yourself, Wee Davey.
Each one has a multitude of articles on who was involved and how and when, to the extent the cover up has been pierced.
That you apparently believe Dodson [the current whipping boy of the cover up] to be the only source demonstrates either palpable ignorance or willful dishonesty on your part.
You might spend a few hours reading and learn something,but I suspect you already know the truth and choose to lie instead.
You can lead a hobby horse to water, but he always drinks the kool aid instead.

DublinDave

-I notice when you're not just advancing opinions but are projectile vomiting lies your self described good nature and sense of humor are starkly absent-


Let me try this one more time;you stated the the laws ATF agents claimed were too weak to get prosecutors to move forward with indictments on 'Fn f' are used thousands of times a year to indict similar cases.

But we've seen evidence that demonstrates ATF officers invloved in 'f n f' tried time and time again to arrest straw purchasers, but were prevented by prosecutors citing weak laws.


This runs counter to your claim and clearly shows that ATF were NOT intentionlly allowing guns to walk as part of a programme and you can't show me evidence that they were.

That kind of undermines your whole fairy tale premise and I would think being an ffl for 30 years, you'd be a little more competant in your claims.

DublinDave

Roflmao...I asked Ignatz for evidence of ATF agents directly invloved in 'fast n furious' refusing to apply the law to illegal gun runners and he gives a whistler blower called Vincent celufu who wasn't even invlolved in the case.


Talk about grasping at straws!

Gotta go to work, but when I get back Ignatz I want those documents.

henry

gotta go to work ... Grasping at straws

Yes, I want fries with that.

Ignatz

--Roflmao...I asked Ignatz for evidence of ATF agents directly invloved in 'fast n furious' refusing to apply the law to illegal gun runners and he gives a whistler blower called Vincent celufu who wasn't even invlolved in the case.--

I linked that site for you to educate yourself on F&F. It has several threads dedicated to it. I never said Cefalu was involved in F&F.

Buford Gooch

If you all stopped responding to the moron, he might eventually go away. I give him props for hijacking threads.

Ignatz

I can't read them all for you Davey but here is all the information you need to stop lying;
First congressional report.
Second Congressional Report
Both congressional reports refer to multiple FFLs and ATF agents with internal complaints and testimony to congress and also the ATF agents in Mexico who were kept in the dark about how all these guns were appearing from Phoenix and their reported concerns to superiors.
CBS News story on F&F being used for new gun control regs.

WeeDavey said "It's completely in dispute and it's patently false to suggest that there was a gun walking programme."

Eric Holder, the man he's defending said "Any instance of so-called gunwalking is unacceptable. Regrettably, this tactic was used as part of Fast and Furious." He also said the operation was "flawed in its concept and flawed in its execution."
And as an aside you do know this was a joint operation and that those prosecutors who supposedly messed things up work for the DoJ just like the ATF guys do, right?

Read a little and if you have any inclination to you can stop making such an ass of yourself.

Ignatz

--Let me try this one more time;you stated the the laws ATF agents claimed were too weak to get prosecutors to move forward with indictments on 'Fn f' are used thousands of times a year to indict similar cases.--

I didn't say 'indict' I said 'interdict' and even that was a poor choice of words.
The laws are used thousands of times after a crime has been committed and the gun traced back to the store at which it was bought, which then allows law enforcement to identify a straw purchaser. Most of them are never prosecuted because most aren't gun runners they're just drug abusers etc who do it for some drugs or ready cash or it is simply impossible if there was no witness to the transfer to get a conviction.
In the case of F&F we have exactly the opposite set of circumstances. Law enforcement knew beforehand who the straw purchasers were and were talking with the FFLs about when they were making straw purchases. All they had to do was follow them and bust them as soon as the transfer was made. So unlike the normal method by which straw man sales are detected the sale was known to be occurring beforehand but the arrests were not made. That is no weakness in the law; the law is ironclad in those circumstances. The straw purchaser and the real buyer have both committed a federal felony and they were sitting right there for ATF to grab and DOJ to prosecute had they chosen to. They not only declined to prosecute they told the FFLs to keep selling to them.

Adjoran

The simple FACT is that Holder and DOJ repeatedly LIED to Congress about when they knew about this practice. F&F was a part of a drug enforcement task force operation with wiretaps, the applications for which MUST be approved by Main Justice (the AG or his designee, another top DOJ official) before being submitted to the Courts.

Also, the "deliberative process privilege" is rather narrowly drawn and does NOT apply to just anything the President doesn't want disclosed. It cannot apply to the documents sought.

NO_LIMIT_NIGGA

Just a PSA reminder about the true nature of the "dublindave" commenter:

"Zimmerman's mug shot."
Jeese,he looks like a kid.
- Posted by: dublindave | April 11, 2012 at 09:05 PM

He better stock up on the KY-Jelly,lookin that sweet and innocent.
I hear Wal mart are doing a special on 'sensations'this week.
- Posted by: dublindave | April 11, 2012 at 10:02 PM

Yeah sure,prison rape jokes are extremely mean and in poor taste,but come on they're practically mandatory amongst guys(when I say "guys" I exclude Republican men,I mean GUYS).
- Posted by: dublindave | April 11, 2012 at 10:20 PM


Or, as I pointed out over a month ago:
Yeah, I had you pegged as a lying little hypocritical bitch from your first comment, Dumbassdave. And your show of contrition now is as insincere and dishonest as the one you offered Sara last night.
You're obviously willing to say anything, regardless of how tasteless, irrelevant, or untrue it is, as long as it pushes the narrative you've latched onto or slanders people you don't like. You don't even seem to notice when you completely contradict yourself from one comment to the next. You have the brains and attention span of a goldfish.
That makes you nothing but a worthless garden variety troll.... albeit one who seems to have the hots for sweet, innocent little latino boys.

- Posted by: NO_LIMIT_NIGGA | April 12, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Paula

Has this been posted?

Honduras? Why would ATF walk guns to Honduras? 1. The national scope of the Gunwalker Scandal & 2. Because that's where some of the action is.


http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/07/honduras-why-would-atf-walk-guns-to.html

Soylent Red

Is there evidenc that e duda can beat up an egg, let alone a Paki?

This guy can't even beat his meat.

Whoever described this a a political football match for DD nailed it. The left only cares about shouting down the other side, not presenting and analyzing facts in search of the truth. When they shout you down, in their minds they win. IF DD has a tattered shred of intellectual honesty, he would know that what he's pushing is BS. At the very least he would concede that Holder is obstructing the Constitutional right for Congressional oversight of the Executive.

But he doesn't and won't. So let's choose up sides and ignore vigorously.

Gus

WeeWeeDouchebagDave is dishonest. Simple as that. All LIBTARDS are. He's a pathetic piece of shit. And he has to live with himself.

Ignatz

--At the very least he would concede that Holder is obstructing the Constitutional right for Congressional oversight of the Executive.But he doesn't and won't.--

WeeDavey is worse that that. He doesn't even go to the trouble of denying stuff. He admits that's the kind of crap the left pulls and he cheers it.

Neo

The White House said a former National Security staffer who communicated with ATF's Special Agent in charge of "Fast and Furious" cannot be interviewed by Congressional investigators.
The ATF Special Agent, Bill Newell, testified to Congress in July 2011 that he's a longtime friend with then-White House National Security Staffer Kevin O'Reilly. The two emailed and talked on the phone during the controversial Fast and Furious gunwalking operation, according to documents and Newell's testimony to Congress.

O'Reilly got an assignment in Iraq to keep him out of reach of Issa's investigators.

Richard Aubrey

DD's doing the Alinsky thing. Even though you know you're lying like a rug, keep arguing. The implied contract in a discussion is that if the facts fit, you might change your mind. Alinskyites use this. They're not going to change their minds. They know the facts and don't care. The object is to tire and annoy the opposition by keeping them going, using the implied contract. Even though they know everybody including them knows better than their assertions.
Let him talk to himself.

Answering him to no purpose is his goal.

JM Hanes

Here's a modest little silver lining, for the folks who haven't seen one yet. Jeff Sessions says that the reason they'll be able to pass repeal without having to overcome a filibuster is because Roberts "converted the law into a budget issue."

JM Hanes

Oops, wrong thread!

mojo

"...but we don't want the Irish!"
-- Blazing Saddles

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