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July 29, 2012

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Danube of Thought

I remember the Stephen Jay Gould piece very well--I found it persuasive.

Donald

Speaking of context, those commercials of Rachel Maddox standing in front of a picture of the Hoover dam talking about America doing big things are hilarious.

Ignatz

--(If? Imagine Russell Westbrook as a sprinter or MJ as a highjumper)--

Regardless of what a slime ball he became, I've always wondered at the decathlon records OJ Simpson could have set.

MarkO

Wilt:

"In college at the University of Kansas, while serving as the mainstay of the basketball team, he was also an outstanding track athlete. He reeled off head-turning times in the half mile and quarter mile, while almost reaching his own height in the high jump (7' 4"?)and doing well over 24 feet in the broad jump." [WaPo obit]

Bring it on LeBron. Show up, MJ.

Ralph L

The swimmers are now using those high tech suits which have cut their times. It would be fairer if they all swam naked, and we could laugh at the guys icing their junk before each heat. The large-breasted gals would be at a disadvantage, however.

hit and run

Imagine Manute Bol as a hockey player. Or a jockey. Or a boxer.

narciso

Well to be fair, TM, wasn't Silver and much of the Journolist acting like the East German
judge during the last campaign, what is the difference with his current endeavor.

MarkO

I had a hard time imagining Manute Bol as a basketball player.

Danube of Thought

I'd like to see LeBron at tight end.

Simpson was a track athlete (sprinter) at USC, and I think he was a member of a relay team that held the NCAA 4x100 record for a while. He ran a 9.4 hundred-yard dash at a time when the world record was 9.3.

As I recall, Wilt was a decathlete.

@ the city college stadium.  Plenty of seats.

OJ's world record was the quarter mile relay, and still stands. Set in San Diego, the relay team was runners and receivers for the Trojans. OJ ran third, if I recall correctly.
==================

Ignatz

--He ran a 9.4 hundred-yard dash at a time when the world record was 9.3.--

I know, and with his upper body strength and a few years training in the shot put, discus and javelin he would have been a monster.

Ignatz

Well, I guess he did kind of succeed in the 'monster' thing, even without the Olympics.

What a perversion the shot clock is.  And the goaltending rule.

Hank Iba could stop The Stilt, with a little help from his friends.
============

hit and run

Bo Jackson coulda been a helluva decathlete.

pops

Phelps is a prime example of one who started as a driven, hardworking dediccated person who won many Olympic gold. Then he got a taste of the liberal life of partying, dope smoking, being 'famous' and generally making excuses while not putting in as much effort.

And this year, ......

A life lesson.

Ignatz

I mentioned this gal before and she came through; Kim Rhode wins gold medal in skeet, her fifth medal in five consecutive Olympics, the first American ever to do so and, I believe, only the second person ever.

Got the runner, too.

kim gump once witnessed a Bo Throw from deep left field to the plate that looked like a home run ball.
=============

It was futbol, it was.

Got a Dr J story, too. I thought he was gonna sail on up into the endzone nosebleed seats.
=========

hit and run; the J doesn't stand for Julius

Got a Dr J story, too.

Me too. Whenever you go out to dinner with him, let him pick the wine!

Ok, this has gone on long enough. Come on, kim -- what's the wattsupwiththat news? I know you know. Tell us. We won't tell anyone else, I swear.

The jury is out, and has too few facts to find justice.

Little clue, h&r; my own suspicion is that Anthony is working with Judith Curry on a response to the attribution of the temperature rise to AnthroCO2. About attribution, Muller is practically stronger than the IPCC and his work here is on the temperature record, not attribution. How or why on earth he stumbled over the hornet's nest of attribution, I don't know, but he'll be stung badly over it.
====================

Under a hundred minutes, now.

Heh, Judy has promised a BEST related post at her blog, Climate Etc., for tonight. That should be a good one.
===============

hit and run

Little clue, h&r

A likely story.

I thought maybe Anthony had found a couple of stone tablets with a message on them.

The big boys and girls who do know are mum, but I detect a Mona Lisa grin on 'em.
=============

Danube of Thought

I stand corrected re OJ's record. I suppose it will stand forever, as no one runs the event anymore. I don't remember when it was discontinued (along with the hundred-yard dash). But the man could run.

jimmyk

In swimming, it's not just the suits (though were the full body suits prohibited? They don't seem to be using them any more), but also training methods, and rule changes. For example, backstrokers are allowed to turn over onto their stomachs before the turn. That wasn't allowed back when I swam in the 70s. Breaststrokers can let their head go below the surface, also not allowed in my day. Pool technology has improved too, to reduce turbulence.

Ignatz

Not many sports haven't improved technologically.
Even the shot put and discus guys aren't hopping and spinning on sand anymore.

narciso

The piece with the particular caveats, which
'unexpectedly' the Times did not highlight;


http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/07/mulling-over-muller.php

matt

I was at those trials and the Seoul Games and saw her and everyone else set their records.

HGH, steroids and other performance enhancing substances were running amok. Ben Johnson was only the most egregious example. Smoke was coming out of his ears in the Olympic 100 final.

Flo Jo was forcibly retired from Track & Field by the USOC/USA T&F some time shortly after the Games because she was probably the most egregious female practitioner. She died of a heart attack very young.

Carl Lewis was one of the most vocal anti-doping voices, but was the most hypocritical athlete on the field. He later admitted he was doping as well.

The problem is that the dopers are always 2 steps ahead of the enforcers. There's a lot of money at stake and chemistry can alter many formulations at a molecular level so they fall outside the range of detection.

In addition, a culture of corruption existed. "Everyone was doing it."

In addition, the IOC, the federations, and the organizers all covered it up. The reputation of the Olympics is sacrosanct. Except it is more tawdry because they create such a tall pedestal.

hit and run

OK, as the curator of Thread Herder's estate, I am requesting in his memory that the wattsupwiththat press release is covered on the Sunday Morning thread.

This request is submitted humbly out of respect, and not out of a domineering attempt to dictate any particular choice for individual commenters.

That's what Thread Herder would have wanted, I am sure of it.

Voldemort Delenda Est !                   Sandy Daze
Phelps is a prime example of one who started as a driven, hardworking dediccated person who won many Olympic gold. Then he got a taste of the liberal life of partying, dope smoking, being 'famous' and generally making excuses while not putting in as much effort.

And this year, ......

A life lesson.

Posted by: pops | July 29, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Pops, do I detect a degree of schadenfreude in your making that comment? I'd say that Phelps' accomplishments speak for themselves.
FYI - the 400IM is not/NOT Phelps' event. Lochte has dominated this event for the last three years, and Phelps only decided to swim it in this Olympics nine months ago.

I know those athletes work hard, very hard. Most people watching the Olympics have no clue the training regime required to compete at that level, i.e. 10,000-15,000 yards per day, two plus hours per day weight training, technique review, other training efforts.

The season never/NEVER ends. The Olympics end and the next day it is back at it.

Hell, I've never even qualified for the Olympics, let alone earn a bronze, silver or gold medal. So, I don't know about all of the pressures of a "a driven, hardworking dediccated person" competing at the Olympic level. I'll have to refrain from judgement until I see how the swimming competition ends.

Some may think Phelps has lost his edge, in my view that judgement is premature.

But, I'd say, if Phelps does not even win one more medal in London, his 16 so far (14G, 2B) is nothing to sneeze at.

Hell, man, Phelps is an American who has accomplished more in the tank that any man or woman in the world. What is your point, again???

YMMV.

Sara

.

Words fail.

Tom Maguire
Bo Jackson coulda been a helluva decathlete.

Could have been?!? He was a two-time state champ in Alabama. But however good you think he might have been, he would have been better. Get this:

In 1980, a Berry High School athlete some will recall by the name of Tom Powers won the state of Alabama decathlon in impressive fashion. His teammate, Andy Measel, finished 3rd. One year later, Powers was the favorite to repeat in the state decathlon his senior year. A less familiar McAdory athlete by the name of Vincent Jackson finally gave in to pressure that he should attempt the decathlon. As Bo had never pole vaulted or thrown the discus, he taught himself to do so in one day.

Measel recently recounted the day's competition from the 1981 event. Vincent Jackson was observed in the long jump soaring past the pit, and slightly injuring an ankle. "Who was that?" a bystander inquired of an official. "Some kid named Vincent Jackson," came the infamous reply.

Jackson won the Alabama state high school decathlon with a record point total, and also set a record in winning the 100 meters. Remarkably, Vincent "Bo" Jackson would go on to score the maximum 1,000 points in every decathlon event, with the exception of the 400 meters.

Despite sitting out one of the decathlon events (the 1500 meters) due to his ankle injury, Bo had built up such a point lead that he would win the 1981 decathlon.

Sadly, the Alabama scoring system can not be compared to the current IAAF method.

hit and run

TM:
Could have been?!? He was a two-time state champ in Alabama.

I knew that.

But however good you think he might have been, he would have been better.

You are using the generic "you"? Because you know you don't know how good I thought he might have been.

'Cause that's why I brought him up.

Tom Maguire
Because you know you don't know how good I thought he might have been.

Yes, but Bo Jackson defies logic and exceeds ALL expectations, including yours, mine and ours.

hit and run

TM:
Yes, but Bo Jackson defies logic and exceeds ALL expectations, including yours, mine and ours.

True. Unless my expecations are that he could have ridden decathlon fame and married into the Kardashian family without it resulting in a humiliating reality tv series.

See? You don't know.

bgates

Remarkably, Vincent "Bo" Jackson would go on to score the maximum 1,000 points in every decathlon event, with the exception of the 400 meters.

Despite sitting out one of the decathlon events (the 1500 meters) due to his ankle injury

Wow. He scored the maximum in an event he didn't even enter.

That does defy logic.

hit and run

bgates:
That does defy logic.

Doesn't it?

It's as if someone posting as "Eagle5
AuburnSports.com Fan Correspondent" failed to include "that he competed in" in his submission to rivals.com.

If only rivals.com had layers of fact checkers and editors to catch that kind of stuff that gets caught at JOM.

Amateurs.

Jim,MtnViewCA,USA

Sara@3:02PM reminds me:

DublinDave, July 27, 2012
"Meanwhile,the First lady is just wowing the British people with her style,elegance and energy."

GMax

the First lady is just wowing the British people

Good thing, cuz the current gig is just about up...

Jack is Back

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

Bo Jackson was a tremendous talent but to be a world class decathlete he wouldn't also be a world class baseball or football player. Bob Hayes played in college but gave it up to become the great track sprinter then returned to football. That said, Bruce Jenner never skied in his life but learned how in 1 hour and was doing moguls in the afternoon.

Also, swimming is a low impact sport compared to track and field. Different kinetics and more easily conditioned for younger athletes.

I am surprised no one has mentioned the hand-eye coordination needed for skeet.

hit and run

JiB:
I am surprised no one has mentioned the hand-eye coordination needed for skeet.

Are you really? I would have been surprised if it had come up.

Jack is Back

Hit,

The problem is that sometimes JOM is too serious:) But today the KImberley Rhode won the gold in Skeet set a world record 99 out of 100. If we are talking world records and athletes take a gander at the level of conditioning it takes to do that!

BTW, going for 5.

hit and run

Heh. I hear ya JiB. I couldn't begin to tell you how many times I've heard people tell me I'm too serious :)

Danube of Thought

Not to mention that Bo was hitting 500-ft. homeruns at age 18.

Ignatz

--Bo Jackson was a tremendous talent but to be a world class decathlete he wouldn't also be a world class baseball or football player.--

That was the original point, the NFL, NBA and even baseball occasionally divert many of the best athletes in the world to non Olympic sports or now concentrates them in Olympic basketball.

Carol Herman

DAY TWO: IT's raining.

So now you know why chaps always carry umbrellas when they walk about London.

It's a wet city.

And, the Olympics are all wet, too.

Winds accompanied the rains. And, one of the events had horses. Dancing. When the winds made the roof over the judges area ... go bouncing up and down.

Best report so far: The horse on parade didn't get spooked. (And, the rider didn't fall off.)

Did you really think you were missing something not being there?

Danube of Thought

Hell, jimmyk--back when Real Men were swimming you had to touch the wall with your hand at the completion of each lap.

Jack is Back

Iggy,

That was not my point. It was that even if diverted, an athlete of Bo Jackson's ability, could not maintain a world class decathlete training regime and play world class pro ball in any discipline. One or the other.

But i understand your point and TM's original explication.

In HS I lettered in 3 sports but could only make the football team in college because the majority of the guys in baseball and tennis focused only on those sports while in HS. But the track team was a mix of football and basketball players. That is the sport they did in the spring-summer. Not baseball.

Sara

My son played football in the Fall, baseball in the Spring and softball in the Summer, when he wasn't at the beach surfing.

hit and run

Heh, memories.

Growing up I spent one summer swimming on the local rec team. I guess I was pretty good - I won all my races. But I was a terrible swimmer technique wise. It was all free style, and I was as "free" as you could get. Arms and legs everywhere flailing with the fury of someone who had just placed his tongue in a light socket. I would go from rope to rope in my lane -- as soon as I felt it on my left I would start swimming to my right until I felt that rope and adjusted back to the left. With my zig-zagging, my parents used to joke that I swam 100m in the 50m race.

Ignatz

--Iggy,

That was not my point. It was that even if diverted, an athlete of Bo Jackson's ability, could not maintain a world class decathlete training regime and play world class pro ball in any discipline. One or the other.--

I think we're just making flip sides of the same point, Jack.
I was lamenting the diversion precisely because they can only do one or the other.
Bo or OJ [or Jim Brown for that matter]could have been all time great decathletes and I'm still naive enough to think that while that isn't nearly as lucrative as the NFL it's still quite a bit cooler.
There's still a mystique for me to the Al Oerters of the world that the Jim Browns don't quite have.
I suppose that world is long gone but don't ruin it for me by confirming it is. :)

daddy

Good Morning.

08:30 AM in Singapore. A great place to watch Olympics.

We have a Star Sports channel which I believe is British with Brit announcers, and it currently is following a female Olympic Long Distance Bike Race through the countryside.

Then we have a Channel called Media Corp which currently is female Gymnastics---Romanians, Canadians, Spanish and Japanese competing in various floor exercises. No fluffy human interest segments, simply continuous competition, and the announcer accents sound like a Chinese girl speaking English, and an Australian.

ESPN is running female Olympic PingPong coverage. Mainly the Asian countries; Chinese, North Koreans, etc, but currently have a bout between Italy and Russia. Announcer sounds British.

And the France24 channel has Olympic breaks focusing on French medalists.

IN the hour or so I've been watching haven't seen or heard a single word about US athletes. Over here the focus is very much on the Asian teams and especially the sort of sports (Judo, PingPong, Badminton, Archery) that you associate with Asians.

hit and run

We've focused only on men.

Babe Zaharias deserves to be in any discussion of all around athletes.

Jack is Back

daddy,

The woman's road race was won by Marianne Vos of The Netherlands early today. You are really behind:)

Dana Vollmer won the 100 butterfly in WR time. Kim Rhode became the first person to medal in 5 Olympics when she won the skeet gold medal and the boys finished 2nd in the 400 M freestyle relay behind the French - the French, daddy. Never even knew they could swim:)

Star Sports is part of Murdoch, isn't it?

Stay away from Orchard Road. Wish I had.

Ralph L

Whatever happened to Bo Jackson? Did he make enough money in his short careers that he doesn't have to do reality shows?

Jack is Back

Hit,

My Mother played against Babe in AAU basketball.

She was by far the greatest American woman athlete ever. Don't even know if there is a contemporary comparison.

RichatUF

Broke (?) his hip in an NFL game when he rushed to the left for about 60 yards.

daddy

"Stay away from Orchard Road. Wish I had."

Ha! Funny and true.

AliceH

All this world's greatest talk, and no mention of Jim Thorpe?

hit and run

Alice:
no mention of Jim Thorpe?

That's not true. There was a comment at 9:33 that mentioned Thorpe.

Jack is Back

AliceH,

You can sub Raefer Johnson for Thorpe if you want:)

Ignatz

--Whatever happened to Bo Jackson? Did he make enough money in his short careers that he doesn't have to do reality shows?--

I've seen him on a couple of hunting shows and Wiki says he has had several successful businesses/investments.

--Broke (?) his hip in an NFL game when he rushed to the left for about 60 yards.--

Dislocated it which messed up the end of his femur.

Ignatz

I can still remember the weird hop he took on the end of that run.
Last moment of the great old Raiders IMO.

hit and run

Herschel Walker has made some noise about coming back and playing a season in the NFL at age 50.

Best 50 year old athletes?

Gordie Howe
Larry Holmes

Who else?

Sara

Not quite 50, retired at 48, George Blanda, quarterback and kicker for the Oakland Raiders?

jimmyk

Satchel Paige pitched semi-pro into his 50s, plus a few innings (and well) in the majors at the age of 59 or so.

hit and run

Jamie Moyer turns 50 in November. Don't know if he'll make it for another season. Julio Franco retired at 49.

daddy

Enjoyable female Archery Competition now being shown over here.

Japan gals just beat the Russians for the Bronze, and now its the Koreans versus the Chinese for the Gold. The stands at Lords(?) seem packed and the crowd is really respectful and into it.

Korea wins! Great to see how happy they are.

Danube of Thought

OK, can I say a word about Coronado High School?

We just watched the US water polo team defeat Montenegro, 8-7. Two of the 13 members of the US team--Layne Beaubien and Jesse Smith--are CHS grads. Layne scored a goal in this win. I talked to him at length on July 4 about how excited he was, what our chances were, etc. He's a Stanford grad, and this is his third Olympics. When this is over, he'll have to begin his actual adult life. He'll do fine.

N.B.: Twelve former CHS water polo players are now Navy SEALS. No CHS water polo player has ever washed out of SEAL training.

"Cor'nado High, Cor'nado High,
Thy praise we love to sing
The songs cheers as vict'ry nears
Through field and hall will ring."

Be true to your school, folks. Just like you would to your girl or guy.

hit and run

I talked to him at length on July 4

His 36th birthday.

Danube of Thought

"Broke (?) his hip in an NFL game when he rushed to the left for about 60 yards."

Not really. I was at that game (Broncos at Raiders), and it happened directly in front of me. He was coming up the right sideline--I don't remember how long a run it was, but not overly long (he went down at about midfield)--and when he went down no one could have dreamed he had been injured. A routine play resulting in a freak injury.

Danube of Thought

Having gone to Google, I see I am going to be shredded about Bo's injury--the consensus being that it happened in a playoff game against Cincy.

I swear that it happened at home against Denver. I believe he tried to come back, but the coup de grace came later--I guess against the Bengals.

Will try to find what I can.

College Football

I used to be able to find good info from your blog posts.

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