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October 21, 2012

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peter

Somehow, it all goes back to Gary Taubes.

Danube of Thought on Ipad

The visionary says "Never mind that McGovern was the one with the World War II combat record and decorations. Image is everything."

How do we think the visionary voted in Bush 41 v. Clinton? Dole v. Clinton?

Dave (in MA)

I probably would have voted for him, but I was in junior high and hadn't heard about ACORN yet.

centralcal

I think I am just about the only one here, who was of voting age at the time, who voted for Nixon.

Odd, because of the electoral blow-out. I am amazed at how many of my now conservative (and Republican) friends here at JOM are all reformed Democrats.

But then, I decided to rebel against my Republicanism during a difficult time in my life - voting for Gore over Bush. eyeroll

I have to say by the time it was decided, Supreme Court and the lead up to that, I was quite resigned and almost happy that Bush won. Then 9-11 came and I was quite thankful.

Jack is Back

I agree with Taubes.

We'd all be skinny progressives enjoying outlawed football games on special Apple apps smuggled in from the Free Turks and Caicos. Berkeley would be the capital of America and the SDS would be the equivalent to the disbanded US Senate. The Tea Party? Exactly what they are - the 3:00PM servers down on the corner where everyone congregates for their demitasse of Earl Grey sprinkled with enough prozac to keep us from babbling too much.

No TSA either since with the proliferation of mosques' did I mention that McGovern's successor was named Jimmah Ali-Legume al Georgica? He brought much more interesting changes in culture and fashion. If it wasn't for the more moderate Barack Hussein Obama we'd still be eating only camel stuffed pancakes or affectionately known among children in America as Camels in a Blanket.

Thank you Mr. McGovern. I am skinny but not as free as I should be.

Jack is Back

CC,

I voted for Nixon in 68. Had to as a young Air Force officer putting my ass on the line every day. Wanted that monstrosity of war control exercised by LBJ and McNamara/Walter Riston over in the hands of the non-paranoid. What little did I know about paranoia as Nixon was soon to prove. But I live to this day and my thanks to Dirty Dick.

I was also a reformed Democrat since I was a JFK acolyte has a kid in high school. Hell, who wasn't. He was a war hero and had the girls swooning. If you said Nixon it was like getting cooties. But after the LBJ debacle of the war it was like a great awakening for me and I have never turned back. Its a mater of trust and there has not been a Democrat since JFK who I could trust, period.

rse

jib-McNamara has come up numerous times in what I am working on. What a statist schemer he was with no ability ti learn the really important lessons.

Danube of Thought on Ipad

I voted for Nixon twice. I have never voted for a Democrat for any office anywhere.

Captain Hate

Is there anybody in the world that admits to liking McNamara?

Captain Hate

I was a JFK acolyte as a kid in high school. Hell, who wasn't.

Me. And probably DoT.

narciso

Well that's an interesting example of alt history, JiB, somewhat like Steven King's recent score settling exercise, it may very well have occurred that events in Iran, might transpired, on a faster track, under those circumstances, not to mention Central America. Drury was thinking of McGovern, when he sketched that particularly dark
tome, 'Come Nineveh, Come Tyre'

jimmyk

I have never voted for a Democrat for any office anywhere.

I may have voted for a Dem senator when I was 18, but by 20 my conversion was complete: I voted for Reagan over Carter and never looked back.

narciso

McNamara squandered lives, in an enterprise he never believed in, engaging in vain gambits to entice the enemy into negotiations, not realizing their actual
goal.

Subsequently, he was promoted to the World Bank, which became a piggy bank for every
dictatorship under the sun,

Danube of Thought on Ipad

Nah, CH--I would have voted for Nixon but I was only 19 (voting age was 21 back then).

Neo

McGovern had a great piece in the WSJ a few years back describing his attempt at running a business, a restaurant. After dealing with a myriad of regulations, he determined that most politicians should be required to run a business before going into politics.

Rick Ballard

Obama should give the eulogy for McGovern. After all, he's the result of the preference and quota system McGovern put in place at the '72 convention. I wonder if Hayden and Ayers will act as pall bearers?

Captain Hate

Actually I think I was in Jr High but I was definitely for Nixon-Lodge.

Captain Hate

Btw, for some reason my Firefox is acting differently today. For a while and for whatever reason, I wasn't getting the squiggly red line under misspelled words. Also on the main page google wasn't activated for the search software and I was using Bing in the upper right corner; now they're both google.

narciso

Would Reagan have more readily won in '76, if McGovern had been President,

jorod

George was a man ahead of his time. And thank god he was.

Jack is Back

narciso,

Only if John Ashbrook was not running at the same time:)

Captain Hate

Hard to say, narc; the margin of McGovern's defeat meant that his policies were deeply unpopular and to assume that there would've been a huge backlash is valid. Although Reagan hadn't consolidated his popularity in the GOP so his nomination would've been the biggest obstacle imo.

narciso

So this the fellow who says we shouldn't elect Romney;

http://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/Members/49/Ben%20Emmerson.aspx

Ralph L

McGovern wouldn't have stopped inflation--free silver, etc. (Not that Nixon/Ford were effective).

Would McGovern have supported Israel in 1973, causing the oil embargo & recession? I say yes, but not as decisively as Nixon.

Clarice

I have much stronger feelings about Kennedy's "best and brightest" and McNamara than I do about McGovern, though it's been a while since I reviewed the record.

Cecil Turner

Well, I for one found the Taubes piece quite funny. I especially liked the "oily" Nixon and the carbs-loving McGovern.

And for all I disagreed with McGovern on practically everything, at least he was relatively honest about it.

R.I.P.

narciso

McNamara's was a nazgul, among other things because he was a policymaker who directed a war he didn't believe in,

Jack is Back

Hey tondo,

check in. Great article by Harry in the City Journal. Too bad the bench in front of Driessens can't handle that crowd.

narciso

I'm partial to fats and carbs, so it's a poser, on which side of the question I fall.

Mark Folkestad

Hmmm. The McGovern thread, and the most intense discussion of his life and passing has already spent itself in the other threads.

CC, I cast my first presidential vote for Nixon in his re-election. And I come from the proverbial rock-ribbed Republican family, on both sides. We've been GOP since we got off the boat from Norway. My great-grandfather Haaland cast his first vote as a new citizen for Lincoln's re-election. But I rejoice in having new comrades who were once Democrats. Saul of Tarsus persecuted the followers of Yeshua, but then the scales fell from his eyes in his Road to Damascus moment, and he was crucial to the spreading of the Faith. Our current beliefs are what matter. I know a few people with strong GOP pedigrees who are now "foaming-at-the-mouth" radicals whose beliefs must have their antecedents rolling in their graves. Building the future of our nation is the goal, not comparing credentials.

Jane - Mock the Media!

I was a JFK acolyte as a kid in high school. Hell, who wasn't.

Me. And probably DoT.

For some reason I have always remembered this: I was in the 6th grade and at a cocktail party with my mother for some reason. Mrs Daly asked me if I would vote for Kennedy or Nixon. I said "Nixon". (Remember this was MA)

SHe asked me why. I told her because he had been VP so he brought experience to the job.

All the adults praised me as being just so smart to think of that.

I suspect most were Kennedy fans.

Sara

I was a JFK acolyte as a kid in high school. Hell, who wasn't.

I wasn't old enough to vote, but I wasn't a JFK acolyte. My first presidential vote was in '68 and I voted proudly for Nixon and again in '72. I have never voted for a democrat for national or statewide office, although I was stupid enough to think I liked RFK. I never had to make that final decision however and since then I've learned more and I'm happy I don't have to regret the vote. My memory of the '60s is a time of constant fear. You had to watch your flanks for the race riots and your back for the anti-war great unwashed. And it seemed like funerals for leaders were coming every day, although it really wasn't every day, but it sure felt like it.

I will never forget how those who were guests of the Hanoi Hilton said, upon release, that their treatment improved dramatically AFTER Nixon was elected. So as far as I'm concerned, all those anti-war protesters and enablers were traitors and got more Americans killed. I hated them then, and I have not mellowed with age, I still hate them.

Dave (in MA)

--
Sean Bielat ‏@SeanBielat
This begs for a caption contest. Use #MA4 tag. Best tweet wins a prize! #tcot #twisters #mapoli http://pic.twitter.com/Xt7lCOIS
--
Dave (in MA) ‏@DaveinMA
@SeanBielat How does a Kennedy make himself look moderate?
--
Of course I forgot the #MA4 tag.

Sara

McNamara ... pheh! There are not enough negative words to describe him.

Threadkiller

The pic

narciso

Now from the LUNed piece, I've aired by reservations about how big a player he is , however it would be good to actually question him;

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/213957.php

Janet

Wonderful, Dave!

Did you guys see this video? - Mathews turns on Obama. The Thrill is Gone

Wow. From Verner on FB

Danube of Thought on Ipad

I had no particular negative feelings for McGovern at the time, although I thought he was wrong in his approach ti Vietnam. My lifelong hatred has been reserved for LBJ, McNamara and all those bastards who thought they new so much and wouldn't listen to the people who knew more.

peter

One thing to McGovern's credit--he realized the danger of unchecked union power by his opposition to card check. (LUN)

That and his service to his country in WWII--that's about it. Other than that he was a commie-rat libtard.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

The SF Gigantics are making a strong bid to take it to a game seven.

MAM

Dave - Is Joe K III going to beat Bielat? That would be such a shame. Mass is so full of such screwballs. At least Tierney is on his way out (he's my congressman - ick). Also - is that IBD poll for real? I was beginning to think that RR was having a real surge and could finish Obama off tomorrow night. Now I'm worried that Obama might be enjoying a bounce from the 2nd debate - or maybe not. So sorry to be such a worry wart. I'm fighting a nasty virus and I am a bit cranky. By the way - voted Republican my entire life (first vote was for Richard Nixon). I grew up in Vermont, back in the days when it wasn't filled with moonbats.

Dave (in MA)

He also has it on his FB page.
Patrick Mattuchio - We just need to get your cousin Skakel out and then we could really hammer the middle-class.

I suppose a golf club is a hammer of sorts.

centralcal

Interesting, Janet. And, yet...with all those valid critiques, with all that litany of failure, Chrissy is STILL on board with the Empty Suit/Chair.

Amazing. Predictably amazing!

Janet

How bout - Which of you two ladies would like to fetch me a bowl of Mexican Oatmeal Soup?

Sue

I still don't remember much about Mcgovern but I had a flashback today when I heard his voice on tape from the 70s. I wasn't paying attention back then but I definitely knew his voice.

Chubby

Janet, there are some comments at that Matthews video that indicate that some of the people watching it think it is new, but appears it was uploaded in November 2011.

Dave (in MA)

MAM, beats me. I've only seen one JKIII sign, but I can't say that the neighborhoods I pass through in my commute are representative of the MA 4th.

Sara

I have a yard sign story. Yea!

We have one Obama sign in our neighborhood, the rest is solid Romney, almost every house has either a Romney sign or a bumper sticker on the car. So, a few days ago, one lone Obama sign popped up on a house a few doors down the street. My son noticed it first. Then two days ago, he told me the O sign had disappeared. Yesterday, a new sign in its place. NO TRESPASSING. ANYONE WHO COME ON MY YARD WILL BE SHOT, IF THEY ARE STILL MOVING, THEY WILL BE SHOT AGAIN!

Now, today, I saw that new sign, plus the Obama sign is back.

Unfortunately, this is California. My county was a solid McCain win of over 60%, so I expect it is solid Romney territory and the yard signs bear me out on this. I've heard from friends up in Shasta county in No. Calif. that it solid Romney there too, but those who do not live along the coast never seem to have a say in how this state goes on election day.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

George McGovern is the type of kindly, grandfatherly man who spends his entire life on the crew paving the road to hell.

narciso

He still gleans the wrong lesson, he wants to be Winston Smith, exercising before the telescreen, seeing he's already at the Ministry of Truth,

Old Lurker

I was with you Jane on JFK and with DoT's voting record in his 7:14.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Yesterday, a new sign in its place. NO TRESPASSING. ANYONE WHO COME ON MY YARD WILL BE SHOT, IF THEY ARE STILL MOVING, THEY WILL BE SHOT AGAIN!--

My those tolerant Dems seem to cling rather bitterly to their private property and guns.
Doesn't he know he neither built nor bought that?

narciso

From my earlier Daily Mail link, didn't they realize this was a month of truce,

Sara

Just to break my bad mood over reliving the McGovern days, is this fun moment with Mitt and flag football on the beach at DelRay, Fl this weekend.

http://mittromneycentral.com/2012/10/21/mitt-romney-flag-football-florida-beach-staffer-reporters-game-on/

The video is fun, but if you read the article, you find out that Ann showed up late and scored the winning TD. Go Ann!

Jane - Mock the Media!

MAM - there will be a Tiesie Tierney debate next Sunday at 11 on ch 5

daddy

"I would have voted for Nixon but I was only 19 (voting age was 21 back then)."

Re: Voting Ages, this story from the UK may be of interest.

Apparently Scotland is having a referendum vote for Independence.
Scotland's First Minister has struck a deal with David Cameron that will allow 16 year olds to vote for Scottish Independence. In addition, because in general 16 and 17 year olds are not currently enrolled on the Electoral Register, "The Scottish Government will pay for a voter registration programme so that all 16 and 17 year olds can vote in the independence referendum."

"Most Tory MPs in England (and the former Labour head) do not want 16 and 17 year olds to have a vote in the referendum, scheduled for autumn 2014, because they believe it would then be impossible to hold off demands for such a change for all elections in Britain."

"...an opinion poll last week showed just 30 per cent of Scots favour independence...but the First Minister favours giving teenagers the vote because he believes younger age groups are more likely to back independence."

I recall a California Legislator proposing to allow 14 year olds to vote. Heck, why not. Obama is already going for the Sesame Street Vote.

Ralph L

their treatment improved dramatically AFTER Nixon was elected
Was that mythology, or was it the POW wives "going public" that caused it?

Jack is Back

Giants are up 5-1 but Cards are trying to no avail. Meanwhile the Tigers are yawning and playing golf and just goofing off waiting and then tomorrow will know who they are playing.

God Bless America, a San Francisco tradition if you are a screwball.

narciso

Why exactly did Cameron agree to this,

http://difpolls.blogspot.com/

Sara

Was that mythology, or was it the POW wives "going public" that caused it?

As I recall, it has something to do with resuming the bombing and that when they heard those first bombs, hope was restored.

Jack is Back

daddy,

Let them vote. The UK will be immeasurably better off without Scotland. Let them try to survive on their socialist idea of government and collectivism. I feel bad for them but that is their choice. Alex Salmond is a special DoDo of politician and soon he will prove it to the whole world.

jimmyk

JiB, the Tigers are working out and scrimmaging to try to stay sharp, and avoid what happened in '06 when they swept the A's and had to wait 6 days for the WS to start, at which point they seemed to have forgotten how to play.

narciso

There's a bit of an irony, in how Eagleton
helped coin 'the acid, and abortion line,
anonymously, and they unwittingly returned
the favor, with 'the 1,000 %support, that
was curiously like Armitage covering his own leak, while Libby, had 'saved his bacon, more than a decade earlier

Jack is Back

jimmyk,

Are you kidding me:) With Leyland at the helm they have probably gone to a putt-putt golf course and seen how many guys made holes in one or at least went to Greek Town for the Spanokepteka.

Melinda Romanoff

Daddy-

What Gordon Brown delivered for Scotland will be merely a return to Bleak House, the vote might even save part of what's left of the UK from the pain to come.

And they'll be forced to relearn what free trade truly means, and what it'd bought them.

Rick Ballard

"Also - is that IBD poll for real?"

MAM,

It's real enough to be included in the 308 polls included in RCP Pantheon of Polling since April 16th. The IBD number of 48 is one point higher than his average of 47 for the 308 polls and .9 points higher than his current average of 47.1 on RCP.

I have carefully calculated the rate of increase in the President's share of the vote over the past 20 days and I am 95% confident he will hit the 50.1% level by June 28, 2013 unless there is an intervening event of some sort.

Melinda Romanoff

Sara-

I spent every childhood spring not 1500 yds from where that Delray Beach clip was shot.

daddy

Janet,

Thanks for Verner's link to Chris Matthews losing the tingle.

Please give Verner our best and tell her we miss her. I know I do.

As for Matthews, what a mess. He starts out by describing how Obama hasn't put forward any plan about anything for the future but then reflexively shifts blame from Obama by blaming his aides and campaign handlers for not letting Obama outline his plans. But then, by the end of the clip, he is back whacking away again at Obama for not contacting any Congressman for help or advice.

So Chrissy knows the Truth---the problem is Obama, but Chrissy can't handle the Truth, so he runs around like a desperate emotional chicken with it's head cut off, blaming Obama's handlers. Then when that bout of manic blabber subsides, he goes back to blaming Obama all over again. Linda Blaire in the Exorcist would have a hard time following Chrissy's mania, even with her head being able to completely spin 'round.

A shrink could have a field day with Chris Matthews.

Sara

Obama Admin Denies Benefits to Victims Of Hasan's 'Workplace Violence'

No purple heart, no benefits. It makes me want to throw up. A McGovern legacy?

Clarice

IIRC PUK was of the view that without Scotland Labour would lost the UK.

Melinda Romanoff

Okay.

Someone else take a shot at this and calm my nerves.

YGTBSM.

jimmyk

I have the impression from the site that unlike Gallup, IBD/Tipp doesn't do a 7-day rolling average, so that would explain some of the volatility. Let's see how it comes out tomorrow.

Melinda Romanoff

Clarice-

Very accurate, and all Gordon's gift to Tony.

And then he viewed himself as king.

We know how that ended, with them being far further down the Cloward/Piven Road.

narciso

That makes me a little wistful, that thread around this time some years ago, was the last we heard of PUK,


We really aren't this crazy,

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/19/3057271/tom-wolfes-back-to-blood-revels.html

rse

Melinda-and second only to the Scandinavian countries in crashing their ed system to paper credentialling and everyday tasks with an affective primary orientation.

Gag.

daddy

JiB,

I don't know squat about Scotkland, but what I don't want is for the 16 Year Old Vote idea to catch on.

Like just about everything else over here (Nationalized Healthcare, massive Social Programs, State Funded News Organizations, Gun Control, a ban on Capital Punishment...) we eventually get criticized by our European betters for not being as enlightened as them and gradually those asshat ideas get across the Pond and start tying us up in knots, usually the infection starting from Harvard.

If this 16 year old vote gains credence, I am confident we will be hearing within a decade about how we Americans are horrible neanderthals for denying our 16 year olds their basic Human Right to Vote.

Melinda Romanoff

Why is there the need of some big push, PR wise, for Axelrod to be jamminging Iran sanctions tonight? Lots of twitter noise to that effect.

Smells.

narciso

If you think that review, is odd, consider this one,

http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/20121021_More_Tom_Wolfe_characters_under_social_pressure__this_time_in_Miami.html

Also the irony of someone from Philadelphia saying this,

Gus

I lived in Scotland as a child, and I have been back many many times. My Glasgow cousins are socialist labourers and sots. My Edinburgh and Perth cousins earn their pay.
Guess which ones vote Labour and which are Tories.

MarkO

In 1972 George McGovern was irrelevant. Nixon was a lock. I hated LBJ. I could not even hear his voice on TV. I thought it would never happen again. Then came Obama.

I've never voted for a Democrat for President, but I have voted for some local Dems because they were corrupt in my favor.

Gus

Mel, Obama just wants what's FAIR.

Sara

All I know about Scotland is that my ancestors beat feet to America around 1700 and were the most outspoken about freedom and were the first to volunteer for local militias and then several decades later to fight on the side of the American patriots during the Revolution.

When I lost my temper as a teen one time, my Grandfather was there and said to my Mother, "What do you expect, she's got that strong-willed Welsh blood mixed with her independent Scots blood. She was born to be a fighter." I remember thinking at the time, "Who knew?" But I sensed my Grandpa was proud of me and that my Mom got real quiet and didn't argue with her Dad so I escaped a dressing down and that's all that mattered to my immature brain that day.

Manuel Transmission

My folks were both pretty conservative, so it wasn't much of a surprise when I was probably the only one in my HS class that was for Nixon in commie Seattle. In another couple of years, my Mom was babysitting for Goldwater's grandkids in Phoenix. Never really looked back, but it was still a shock in '64 when Barry was slammed so hard. He made perfect sense to us and I never really trusted the press (and anyone east of the Mississippi) after that. Love it when lessons get learned early.

Rick Ballard

jimmyk,

IBD is a six day tracker with a sample that is too small. They don't really adjust for party ID and the result reflects a "rolling three sevens in a row" sample draw in the current report. It will roll off.

Governor Romney's "47%" remark may represent his campaign's estimate of a ceiling rather than a floor.

Dave (in MA)

I thought he ate dogs, not wagged them.

Melinda Romanoff

Gus-

The sound of your voice is so soothing. Thank you, I feel much less concerned now.

Realizing, of course, I have to have a couple of shots so I can go to bed now...

Danube of Thought on Ipad

I am amazed at how infrequently professional football teams are able to return a kick without incurring a penalty.

Melinda Romanoff

Enough fun.

G'night all!

Gus

Goodnight Mel.

daddy

wagyu the dog?

PD

God Bless America, a San Francisco tradition if you are a screwball.

It being S.F., are we sure that wasn't really a man singing?

glenda

It's going to be 16+ days of history..pray there is some honor left at 1600 PA..

We all need to fasten our seatbelts for the bumpy ride ahead...and all the other cliches that apply :)

Looking forward to read our JOM family's discerning view of debate-gate3 tomorrow!

narciso

The problem with Carlos Slim's crib sheet, is 'they don't know, what they don't knoe'


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/public-editor/connecting-the-dots-in-libya.html?src=recg

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