Who Won?

In an abstarct sense, Obama probably "won" the debate as performance art. But Romney surely seemed adequately Presidential and I doubt that Obama's Presidential petulance was attractive to any remaining undecideds.

However I am sure Obama's "zingers" gave Chris Matthews a tingle and helped fire up the many haters amongst the Democratic base. It is presumptuous of me to attempt to out-think the Democratic brain trust, but my guess is that Obama's hope was to goad Romney into a display of temper that would be immediately criticized by the Dem media chorus as racist. Yes, Romney was extremely unlikely to say "Stifle yourself, you uppity black boy" but the Dems were desperate to pretend he had and would have pounded any flash of Romney temper into that mold. Oh, well - that didn't work, so they will need something else to light their fire. 

On to the Fantasy Checks! On the question of leaving residual troops CNN admits that Obama sat on the SOFA, as does the NY Times.

On the Detroit bailout, it is pretty clear that Obama's attack is on yet another Dem strawman; what Romney favored was restructuring, not a liquidation. In November 2008 Romney argued for private financing with some Federal guarantees rather than a full Federal bailout. Since private markets were essentially closed by the winter of 2009, one is left guessing whether Romney would have compromised with reality in favor of liquidation, or a full Federal bail out.

Comments

[The light was too bright.]

All eyes blink in disfavor.
==========

[Sue]

CW seems to be Obama only won if he delivered a TKO. Seems he didn't so Romney won on a technicality.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Sue-

That view is shifting in the light of day.

[Jack is Back]

Obama is not smart enough to know what a "managed bankruptcy" is compared to a bailout. One of the problems for Romney is he has to show his knowledge to the electorate but then loses Obama in the nuance of the subject.

Jim Messina in the spin room categorically said that "we don't use bayonets anymore". Not a few but none! Messina is the guy who looks as sharp as a butter knife.

[Some Guy]

Who won?

I seriously doubt it matters. I'll bet the ratings were quite low, and I'll bet the ratings of actual undecided voters was nearly 0 households.

So, since there were zero takeaways/soundbites that help O, that means he lost.

No winners, just one loser.

[Sue]

Mel,

?? Are you saying Romney won and not on a technicality? If so, I'll go with that. I didn't actually watch the debate so I'm reporting second hand on what people are saying that did.

[Sara's iPad]

Not who won but how often did Obama lie? At least 10 times.

[Rick Ballard]

"It is presumptuous of me to attempt to out-think the Democratic brain trust"

That would be President Wile E Obama, clutching the DeLuxe Edition of the ACME Political Strategery Manual as he accelerates at 32 feet per second squared towards his final destination.

I doubt you're being presumptuous in doing so.

[Danube of Thought]

I think Romney's performance is looking better and better as the day wears on.

[Clarice]

Reason 1,209,000,000 why I never miss a post here:
"It is presumptuous of me to attempt to out-think the Democratic brain trust"

HEH

[NK]

Tomm-- very fair assessment. JEF was trying to fire up his base (Ok he did) and Romney was trying to keep 'soft ABO' voters in his column and grab some more undecideds (YES HE DID!) Your GM/Chrysler conclusion-- where you say: "Since private markets were essentially closed by the winter of 2009, one is left guessing whether Romney would have compromised with reality in favor of liquidation, or a full Federal bail out." That's true enough -- BUT-- there are bailouts and there are bailouts-- a 2009 Romney Chrylser bailout would NOT have screwed bondholders, and his GM bailout would not have been a multi-billion dollar BRIBE to the UAW-- that LegacyUnion would have had to kick in pension/health givebacks to be bailed out.

[Sara's iPad]

Government foreign debt per household is now $47,495

[NK]

sara-- PS: almost $11,000 to the ChiComs. Scary.

[Threadkiller]

" Michelle Obama planned on divorcing her husband and even prepared divorce papers while Obama was in the Illinois State Legislature according to best selling author and Investigative Journalist Dr. Jerome Corsi. Saying, "Obama has alsoa homosexual history", Corsi spoke of this and much more on a live internet radio program that was broadcast earlier this week.

"I have another article prepared that we ought to publish pretty soon" Corsi said Monday. "People don't realize it but Michelle was preparing, and I actually found divorce papers, to divorce Obama at one point in their marriage". he said.

He goes on to say, "When he was in the State Legislature before he became a U.S. Senator, Obama was smoking all the time, gone, having homosexual relationships, no money...Michelle was tired of it.""

http://giveusliberty1776.blogspot.com/2012/10/michelle-obama-planned-on-divorcing-her.html?m=1

[NK]

MelR-- for your Forex file: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9626542/Japan-to-join-currency-wars-as-exports-slump.html

[bgates]

In reading discussion of the car company bailouts, I'm left with the impression that "liquidation" would have meant melting down their physical assets and forging collars for the once-proud union workers, who would have lived out their days as cabana boys at the beach houses of evil Republican oil company executives.

Before learning that liquidation is therefore completely evil and unjust and economically inefficient, I had thought it meant selling parts of a bankrupt organization to interested parties, who - given that the physical assets were dedicated to making cars, and in a happy coincidence were co-located with labor skilled in manufacturing, marketing, and financing cars - would likely have decided the thing to do was make cars.

Writing it all out now, I can't help but think liquidation would have been a large version of a fairly ordinary event rather than a galactic cataclysm which would have extinguished all life everywhere. What am I missing, finance guys?

[bgates]

Michelle was preparing, and I actually found divorce papers, to divorce Obama

Who could think less of either of them if that had happened? It would have been the best decision she ever made, and the luckiest break in his uniquely charmed life.

[Sue]

Joshua Green ‏@JoshuaGreen

With Romney-will-contest-PA meme spreading (http://j.mp/Sg9un2 ) I'll repeat what good source told me Sat: O's internals have him up 7-9

[Jack is Back]

Who said the progs (Dems) don't understand the economy better than Romney and Ryan?

Here is a simple explanation of how the economy works according to the Democratic Underground.

LOL squared.

h/t Insty

[Melinda Romanoff]

Forex land is a battle of the algonauts, no Jason need apply unless he brings his Halloween street creds.

[NK]

Sue-- Bam up 7-9% in Pa? I have no reason to doubt that report-- but RR may invest some effort in Pa and Ct to keep from losing by 10+% in order to imprrove the Repub Senate chances in those Blue States.

[JM Hanes]

TK:

Aside from my impression that Corsi has trouble producing bona fide smoking guns, I think shoveling personal dirt at this point in the game is like shooting your own candidate in the foot.

[Danube of Thought]

TK, you sure know how to keep up with what the nutballs are saying.

[Sara]

I expect to see more ads before the day is out. Here is the first one:

Apology Tour

[Porchlight]

Ras has an MN poll today and I think it is pretty huge news. Obama up 5, 51-46, but with a D+6 sample. BUT MN was D+4 in '08 and D+3 in '04 so no way will it be D-6 in two weeks AND Romney is up 17 (!) with indies. Of course it is just one poll but this says to me that MN is tied up.

Obama mentioned MN in the debate last night. I think they are really worried.

[Jane - Mock the media]

I thought Romney won last night, and I still think he won today. I think he won on facts, on demeanor and on basic knowledge of the world. I'd like to attribute that to my innate brilliance but I suspect it was bias.

[MarkO]

O/T. Sandy, I lilke it too and we should, it's a weak remake of Gimme Shelter.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

You want cold hard steel? The Taliban don't;
A soldier who led a four-man bayonet charge through a hail of Taliban gunfire has been awarded the Military Cross.

'1916'? Isn't that the year a U-boat (not a U-'ship') sank the Lusitania? Aircraft carriers have been around since the mid 1920s. Maybe CinC Obama, growing up in Hawaii, has heard of an attack launched from them on Pearl Harbor.

How many divisions do Rachel and Chris have?

[Jane - Mock the media]

Go look at Drudge.

Make your day!

[Threadkiller]

The way I see it, JMH, people are looking for a way to NOT vote for Obama. If Corsi gives them something that allows them an out, they will take it.

Will Corsi's tabloid garbage change your vote? Probably not.

[Janet]

Out running errands & had to stop & straighten out/pick up mangled Romney Ryan signs in the traffic median. Obama voters are childish thugs, just like their leader.

[rse]

On both Minnesota and Ohio, make sure voters there understand the Regional Equity Movement and Building One America and how those 2 states are considered to be among the furthest along. Maybe get someone to do an interview with Stanley Kurtz.

Talk about Gary Orfield's new book and how busing is not off the table in a 2nd term. Highlight he is Myron's brother and what the real ed component of REM. Can you imagine how reversing Milliken would play now in Detroit?

[Porchlight]

Have seen this around the blog comment sections - love it:

UNINSTALLING OBAMA....……. █████████▒ 90% complete

[Sara]

Ad #2, released by the RNC:

Presidential

[JM Hanes]

TK:

The press would like nothing more than a chance to cover a garbage campaign, and garbage is what Team Obama does best.

[Jim Ryan]

Janet, I don't cotton to no signs on public land. Isn't it against city regs?

[Danube of Thought]

Gallup daily LV tracking: Romney 51, Obama 46.

[Sara]

Ad #3, Romney campaign:

The Clear Path

[Threadkiller]

"The press would like nothing more than a chance to cover a garbage campaign, and garbage is what Team Obama does best."

Whose vote will be swayed?

[Dave (in MA)]

Trump has uncovered irrefutable evidence that demonstrates once and for all that Obama is a giant poopyhead, and when he reveals this information in front of the entire nation it will be the game-changer that everyone's been waiting for. Either that, or he'll show how he found Obama's Kenyan birth certificate in Al Capone's other vault, and then he'll hit Geraldo with a chair that looks exactly like the one that talked to Eastwood.

[Porchlight]

Barone:

The Romney we saw in this debate seemed to be thinking more about how he would act as president and less than in some previous statements as how he would campaign against the incumbent. Obama seemed to be grasping at areas where they now seemed to be in agreement. The polling data suggests that Romney is now ahead and is likely to be elected. I think we saw two candidates who were thinking not only about the campaign but also about the transition period which will occur if Romney is elected and Obama is denied a second term.

[Janet]

Isn't it against city regs?

No. It's okay to put up signs here..I think there is a time frame though. Anyway...it was just the RR & Allen signs all bent up & pulled up so I put them back.

[Sara]

The Log Cabin joins GOProud in endorsing Romney.

These are both LGBT organizations

[Danube of Thought on Ipad]

Daily Caller:

"An adviser to Donald Trump told The Daily Caller on Tuesday that speculation that the real estate mogul’s 'very big' revelation about President Barack Obama expected this week has to do with college-era allegations involving cocaine is not true.

“'Mr. Trump’s announcement is substantially more important to the American people than these allegations made against the president,' Michael Cohen, special counsel to Trump, told TheDC by phone on Tuesday."

[PD]

I'll bet the ratings were quite low

FOX News debate audience: 11M
Baseball: 8M

(per Rush)

[Threadkiller]

Looks like we both keep up with the nutballs, DoT.

[Jane - Mock the media]

Highest viewership on Fox news making it the highest rated telecast in the history of earth - (or Fox) according to Drudge.

[Danube of Thought on Ipad]

Ya got me there.

[Dave (in MA)]

Jane,

The Globe endorsed Richard Tisei (R) today, and then Tierney's wife got into a car accident.
She should have taken the family helicopter.

[Danube of Thought on Ipad]

How often does Nate Silver publish, and is there anyone here who reads him regularly?

Last I heard--quite recently--he was putting the probability of O's re-election at .67. I would love if someone here would track him from now to November 6. He's gonna have to be a Houdini.

[Porchlight]

Silver is even more of a hack than I realized - I didn't know he assigned his own weights to polls based largely on how much he likes the results. These two articles are must-reads:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/331192/nate-silver-s-flawed-model-josh-jordan?pg=1

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/10/22/the-new-national-pastime-poll-analysis-nate-silver/

[Porchlight]

DoT, to answer your question, I don't read him, but I think Silver posts pretty much every day.

One of the authors above notes that Silver often waits longer to report poll results that are favorable to Romney. My guess is that this is a little trick he pulls, knowing that many of his readers only waste their employer's time on his blog, not their own, and so will be tuned out later in the day. Silver's chief role right now is to keep hope alive on the left.

[Ranger]

DoT,

I've been dropping by Nate's page about once a day for the last few days. He has Obama's odds increasing at the moment:

70.3%
+4.3 since Oct. 15

Talk about swimming against the tide.

[Sara]

California Union Members Demand Transparency from Union Bosses

Members of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) have launched a protest against their own union in California over waste and corruption. They rallied outside SEIU headquarters last week and plan to be in Sacramento on Wednesday.

The protestors are calling for transparency, accountability, and audits of the 2 million member labor union. The group’s website is urging members to hold their representatives accountable: “It is our members that see the waste every day; it is our members that can call it out to the union representatives in their area.”

[Ranger]

Compare Silver's read to intrade:

Barack Obama 57.8%
Today's Change: -3.0

Down three in one day? Ouch.

[Danube of Thought on Ipad]

Thanks, Porch and Ranger. A guy who takes his weights out to five decimal places has a screw loose.

[Danube of Thought on Ipad]

Good God! Susan Estrich is back from the dead on Fox News Channel!

[C.R.]

At Campaign Spot:

There’s always a gap between what a campaign confidently tells the media and the “please give now, we really desperately need it!” tone in most of their fundraising pitches. But tell me if you think today’s e-mail from “Barack Obama” sounds like they think they’re trailing right now:

[Jim] –

I don’t want to lose this election.

Not because of what losing would mean for me — Michelle and I will be fine no matter what happens.

But because of what it would mean for our country and middle-class families.

This race is very close.I’m not willing to watch the progress you and I worked so hard to achieve be undone.

Time is running out to make an impact — please don’t wait any longer. Donate $5 or more today:…
...

[Jack is Back]

For those interested in Aircraft Carriers and whether we need more (Romney) or less (Obama) this webpage is of interest.

It shows current status and location of our 11 carriers.

Note that in December we decommission the Enterprise and are then down to 10. A number of the carriers are going in for Refueling and Complex Overhaul (remember they are nuclear and this is not pulling up to the pump but rather removing the hot core of rods and replacing them. Not something you do i days but rather months).

I note that the Vinson is in DoT's back yard at North Island.

Haven't found a webpage that gives the status and location of bayonets but still looking:)

[Jane - Mock the media]

The Globe endorsed Richard Tisei (R) today, and then Tierney's wife got into a car accident.

She should still be in jail, so that's her own fault.

[Some Guy]

Me: I'll bet the ratings were quite low

FOX News debate audience: 11M
Baseball: 8M

(per Rush)

Not at all surprised by the high FoxNews numbers (that Romney's base is interested and watching).

I would be surprised if the old three letter Nitwork numbers were that high relative to football and baseball.

[centralcal]

Some Guy: (numbers not officially final yet)

Broadcast Fast Nationals 9-10:39PM:

NBC: 12,391,341 in total viewers / 5,839,648 in 25-54
ABC: 11,730,247 in total viewers / 4,361,952 in 25-54
CBS: 8,437,098 in total viewers / 3,564,135 in 25-54

Cable coverage 9:00-10:30PM:

FNC: 11,474,835 in total viewers /3,433,142 in 25-54
CNN: 5,808,405 in total viewers /2,475,772 in 25-54
MSNBC: 4,063,673 in total viewers / 1,701,793 in 25-54

[fdcol63]

" ... Susan Estrich is back from the dead ..."

How could you tell? LOL

[NK]

JiB--- thanks for the CVN website; does anyone know when those effin' Dems named CVN-79 John F. Kennedy? It must have been in a 2009 or 2010 appropriations bill. Bogus-- JFK was cooping when PT-109 was run over by the Japanese destroyer-- he should have been court martialled as Adm. King wanted.

[Chubby]

I wonder if The Donald is acting as a surrogate for something the Romney team uncovered in their research, and leaked to him.

[Some Guy]

Thanks cc

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--I wonder if The Donald is acting as a surrogate for something the Romney team uncovered in their research, and leaked to him.

Posted by: Chubby | October 23, 2012 at 02:50 PM--

Only if Romney's brain is the same grapefruit Donald combs his hair with.
Relying on Trump to do your dirty work would be like hiring Geraldo to do your tomb raiding.

[Chubby]

Maybe the libbies can't figure out that an apology tour doesn't literally mean he said, "I apologize." It's a bit more nuanced than that, libbies. It is possible, ya know, to apologize without using the word "apologize".

[Some Guy]

Looking at cc's numbers, those are significantly higher than I would have guessed.

[Chubby]

Ignatz, Romeny and Trump are on good terms. If it is something really lowdown that the Romney camp doesn't want to dirty its hands with, the Donald would be a great choice because he is a pop culture personality with a big megaphone.

[NK]

Team Romney are acting as if they believe they have the votes to win. Why would they risk the win for a dubious last second personal attack on Bam?

[xbradtc]

IIRC, CVN-79 was named JFK by SECNAV FY12.

[PD]

Susan Estrich is back from the dead on Fox News Channel!

I enjoy listening to her soothing voice. Rare are the tones more dulcet.

[Danube of Thought on Ipad]

The expected lifespan of a CVN is fifty years. That includes a mid-life refueling, which takes eighteen months and costs about 2/3 as much as a new carrier.

[NK]

So the Repub House didn't block naming the CVN-79 JFK-- why would Gates go along naming it JFK?

[ObamaWillGo! Sandy Daze]

O/T. Sandy, I lilke it too and we should, it's a weak remake of Gimme Shelter.

Posted by: MarkO | October 23, 2012 at 01:11 PM

Someone, somewhere commenting on something else, that we just keep repeating ourselves pretty much after the age of what (?) five years old?

HEH - hope that my re-runs are as good as DOOM & GLOOM when I am their age !

BTW - it was you, wasn't it MarkO, who was always distractingly mentioning "DOOM" and "double DOOM" ? Perhaps you can make a claim for title infringement or something like that against Mick and company and gain a few $$.

Now, where can we find a lawyer?

[Danube of Thought on Ipad]

Both Carl Vinson and John C. Stennis are home-ported here, JiB. My next-door neighbor was Vinson's air boss when they dumped Bin Laden. He still very politely declines to tell me anything about it. Proud of him for that.

[xbradtc]

NK, I'm pretty sure it was Ray Mabus who named it. And there's no appealing the SecNav decision on naming.

[NK]

xbradtc-- thanks for the info. JFK naming is a disgrace IMHO. DoT-- what if you ask the Air Boss pretty please with sugar on top? An eyewitness account of the 'burial' of Bin Laden who be much appreciated by those of us who lost people (family, friends, neighbors) on 9/11.

[NK]

"... would be much appreciated..."

[Porchlight]

Not because of what losing would mean for me — Michelle and I will be fine no matter what happens.

Only Obama would mention himself at all in an email like this, let alone in the opening paragraphs. WTF cares how it would personally affect him and his wife? Just so typical of this narcissist POS excuse for a President.

[centralcal]

Behind enemy lines, we get this report:

Brit Hume ‏@brithume

@megynkelly Says when Obama made his crack about horses, bayonets, submarines, etc., there was laughter and applause in debate press room.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--I don’t want to lose this election.
Not because of what losing would mean for me — Michelle and I will be fine no matter what happens.

But because of what it would mean for our country and middle-class families.
--

We've only brought median household income down 8% in our first term.
Please reelect me so we can at least hit double digits.

[Chubby]

((Why would they risk the win for a dubious last second personal attack on Bam?))

for my part, I'll decide if it's "dubious" after I know what it is.

[NK]

"Excuse for a President" almost immediately after the debate he goes out and mocks "Stage 3 Cancer" with his ridiculous Romnesia jive. What a punk this schmuck is. Almost every american has a loved one/friend whose been afflicted with some kind of cancer, and for this character to use 'Stage 3' as punch line is just unbelieveably disgraceful.

[Porchlight]

NK, his own mother died of cancer. He is complete pr*ck and I can't wait for the country to be rid of him.

[NK]

Honestly-- using Stage 3 cancer as a punch line-- there really is something emotionally wrong with JEF-- something beyond narcissism. Thanks for the reminder that his own mother died of cancer-- he's sick.

[NK]

OT-- 2 titans of public finance (Volcker and Ravitch) confirm Illinois is doomed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-23/volcker-ravitch-illinois-study-to-suggest-how-to-salvage-economy.html

[Jack is Back]

DoT,

The Gerald Ford CVN-78 is being targeted heavily by the Florida delegation for Mayport and have initial Navy approval to put a carrier there. The Virginia delegation is trying to counter-punch but so far Jax is winning the battle. They haven't had a carrier homeport at Jax since the Kennedy decommissioned (and even then it was done in Norfolk IIRC).

I had the great honor of visiting the John F. Kennedy (Big John) CV-67 during Fleet Week in New York Harbor during tall ships parade. They had a number of static displays but the one everyone flocked to was the Marine snipers display. Ghillie suits and all. Still have the golf polo shirt I bought but gave the hat to one of your USNA brothers (class of 61 or 62 I believe) who operated off the JFK as a young naval pilot. He lives here as does TriggerJoe.

[jimmyk]

I can't help but think liquidation would have been a large version of a fairly ordinary event rather than a galactic cataclysm which would have extinguished all life everywhere. What am I missing, finance guys?

Nothing as far as I know. Journalists and politicians (a fine distinction perhaps) love to paint catastrophe scenarios. The same can be said about TBTF banks. Bankruptcies can be managed to minimize the waste and maximize the value of the assets. Amazingly, that's what the private sector tries to do. In this case the government came in and imposed its solution, deciding which dealerships would close on something other than which were the least valuable, for example.

I saw that David Stockman is writing a book about why we should have let AIG go bankrupt--same idea, it wouldn't have been the end of the world as we know it.

[jimmyk]

@megynkelly Says when Obama made his crack about horses, bayonets, submarines, etc., there was laughter and applause in debate press room.

At Fox? I'm tempted to say I'm surprised, but maybe not. On the other hand, maybe the laughter was at Barry, and the applause was Shemp and Geraldo high-fiving each other.

[Jack is Back]

jimmyk,

Agree with your 4:16 post.

Funny isn't it that we have all these laws and reforms to bankruptcy but when it comes time to really use them in a pragmatic fashion they were designed for we panic and take another course. I guess the law didn't give away the house to the UAW and deprive the non-manual employees of Delphi of their pensions or punish the bond holders sufficiently.

Like MarkO has noted "he is a nasty little man" and so are the people like Geithner, Rattner and the others he brought to manage our country's bankruptcy.

[centralcal]

No, no, no - jimmyk - the Debate Press
Room - where all the media is forced to congregate during the debate.

It was not the Fox News press room.

[jimmyk]

Thanks, cc, I probably should have realized that.

[js]

"Honestly-- using Stage 3 cancer as a punch line-- there really is something emotionally wrong with JEF-- something beyond narcissism."

JERRY: And what's with people getting sick?

NEWMAN: Hee hee! Yeah yeah!

JERRY: I mean, what's the deal with cancer?

MAN IN AUDIENCE: I have cancer!

KRAMER: Oh, tough crowd.

[Danube of Thought on Ipad]

"I had the great honor of visiting the John F. Kennedy (Big John) CV-67 during Fleet Week in New York Harbor during tall ships parade."

If that was the one Reagan attended, I was there. My brother was ComSecondFlt at the time, and brought the fleet into NY harbor. We watched the parade of ships from JFK's flight deck.

I'll never forget my brother's story about the planning for the thing. Lee Iacocca was chair of the committee, and he pointed to a spot on a chart and said "OK, we'll have the JFK anchor right here."My brother pointed out that the water wasn't deep enough. Iacocca said "not a problem; we'll just dredge a new channel." And they did.

[Danube of Thought on Ipad]

You won't believe this, but there was a time when both ships had been authorized, but neither was yet in commission, when USS Eisenhower was headed for the Pacific Fleet and USS Nimitz for the Atlantic. A guy I know who was in the Pentagon at the time suggested that, in view of the two men's histories it might make sense to switch them. Done.

[Porchlight]

Wow, DoT, that is some story. I'm glad your friend spoke up.

BTW I was in Baton Rouge this past weekend and there was a reunion of USS Wedderburn at the hotel. Met a few of the folks including one of its commanders in the bar. Very nice gentlemen.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Iacocca was not one to take no for an answer. A fellow Lehigh grad, BTW. And though a lifetime democrat, he has endorsed Romney. Quite a guy.

[NKOnIPad]

DoT/JiB. I was A volunteer on the Fleet Week committees 1988-1995. The JFK visit you remember may have been the International Review of Ships in 1986 which was part of the dedication of the Ellis Island museum and restored statue of liberty. Lee I ran that show. I was living on the brooklyn waterfront at the time and watched as the french helo carrier jean d'arc came pierside at the foot of atlantic avenue. The last line was secured, a brow came down from the quarter deck to the pier, 4 french naval officers came down, and a ship's crane reached down into a hangar bay lifted a renault station wagon and deposited it on the pier. The officers jumped in started up the renault and headed up atlantic avenue with french plates. Bienvenue a NY!