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November 15, 2012

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Tilting at Windmills rse

So if Rice is too tainted by her 5 show misstatements to be at State, should we start a pool of names?

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Any mention in any of those Alphabet news stories of how Bush relied on CIA info when making any of his statements?

henry

Yes, a full on through the looking glass world we live in. I am amazed anyone would need psychadelic drugs these days -- I'd suspect they were in the water supply, but I have a well.

Danube of Thought on IPad

Oh, come on, folks! Everyone knows the CIA issued those talking points because Obama threatened Petraeus with outing the Broadwell dalliance if he didn't take the party line. See, Glenn Beck has already told us that Obama knew about the affair before he even nominated Petraeus for the job. It was all a set-up.

There. You've got the basic outline--now run with it!

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

OT, lost culture war post:
US Women's soccer star Hope Solo marries washed up Seahawks tight end hours after he's arrested for assaulting her.
Can we start a dead pool on their marriage?
I'll take 30 days or less.

daddy

Aww what the hell.

New JOM policy.

No threads allowed without pics of the new Kardashians:

Tilting at Windmills rse

daddy-I think DOT prefers a different angle.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Umm, are those buttons, seams or is it a bit nippy out?

narciso

So, Rice's set of talking points, seem remarkably obtuse, so I would guess Samantha Powers wrote them,

pagar

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/11/15/susan-rice-has-been-a-flop-at-the-united-nations/

We would have been better off IMO, if we had not had anyone at the UN.
---------------------------------------------
The next name mentioned will be John Kerry.
John Kerry is the greatest inspiration the VietCong and the North Vietnamese military had in their fight to kill Americans after John Kerry started his anti-American support of North Vietnam.
John Kerry was even more of an inspiration to the North Vietnamese military than Jane Fonda.

http://www.nysun.com/national/hanoi-approved-of-role-played-by-anti-war-vets/3756/

John Kerry has turned against the US on other occasions.

"“U.S. Senator and prospective Presidential candidate John Kerry accuses American soldiers of terrorizing innocent Iraqi kids in the dead of night as they sleep”."

John Kerry will replace Susan Rice as the next nominee for SOS IMO.

Rick Ballard

"How long is "temporary", and might that be what was happening in Benghazi?"

Wouldn't that depend upon flight schedules to Turkey? Obama's Secret Benghazi Prison With Torture Chamber was probably only used to determine the value of suspects prior to rendition to the Turks. Catch and release for low value suspects who passed Kemal's initial more than enhanced interrogation - on to Ankara on the first available flight for those deemed worthy of the full Turkish Delight.

It's not the length of time suspects spend in Obama's Secret Prisons, it's the quality of the time spent with Kemal which counts.

Danube of Thought

Lt. Col. Ralph Peters on Petraeus. (He doesn't like him at all.)

narciso

Peters, belongs to the hardliner camp, on the subject, sometimes they give us reason to be that way, in the LUN

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

I'm with Peters.
When I was in nothing destroyed moral faster than seeing an officer get away with something an enlisted guy would get busted for.
Selective discipline is worse than uniformly loose discipline.

Threadkiller

Can you pick which one is Buddy Hackett in under 30 seconds?

henry

TK, Buddy is the sane looking one.

Threadkiller

Henry gives it away!

pagar

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/who-checked-out-leon-panetta/

"After visiting Nicaragua, Panetta declared (Congressional Record, October 3, 1984) that he and his fellow members of Congress saw “real accomplishments” under the communists and that “The goal of the U.S. Government should be to normalize U.S.-Nicaraguan relations…” Panetta denounced what he called the “counter-revolutionary groups,” the Marxist term for those Reagan had praised and supported as “freedom fighters.”

This is not a joke.

narciso

No, it's not, it's a term that those of us, also used, when the proper term was Nicaraguan
Resistance.

PaulL

Ralph Peters from Dec 2007 -- see LUN

Excerpt:

A year after its publication, the Army and Marine Corps counterinsurgency manual remains deeply disturbing, both for the practical dangers it creates and for the dishonest approach employed to craft it.

The most immediate indication of the manual’s limitations has been Army Gen. David Petraeus’ approach to counterinsurgency in Iraq. The manual envisions COIN operations by that Age of Aquarius troubadour, Donovan, wearing his love like heaven as he proceeds to lead terrorists, insurgents and militiamen to a jamboree at Atlantis. Although the finalized document did, ultimately, allow that deadly force might sometimes be required, it preached — beware doctrine that preaches — understanding, engagement and chat. It was a politically correct document for a politically correct age.

Entrusted with the mission of turning Iraq around, Petraeus turned out to be a marvelously focused and methodical killer, able to set aside the dysfunctional aspects of the doctrine he had signed off on. Given the responsibility of command, he recognized that, when all the frills are stripped away, counterinsurgency warfare is about killing those who need killing, helping those who need help — and knowing the difference between the two (we spent our first four years in Iraq striking out on all three counts). Although Petraeus has, indeed, concentrated many assets on helping those who need help, he grasped that, without providing durable security — which requires killing those who need killing — none of the reconstruction or reconciliation was going to stick. On the ground, Petraeus has supplied the missing kinetic half of the manual.

narciso

Well, a lot of silliness, about 'death squads' in Iraq, was offered in that era, in part because of Negroponte's previous experience;

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/15/intel-officials-struggle-to-explain-libya-talking-points-pressure-on-petraeus/?intcmp=trending

PD

And let's not forget it's Latin Grammy night.

matt

Having read the counterinsurgency manual, it used the lessons of Iraq and the input of a very wide range of counterinsurgency specialists. It was the basis for the Surge, so it worked there. The expectation of "kinetic action" is always there. It's what armies do, after all.

Consultants and experts make their living critiquing the work of the consumer.

More to the point, we should be asking ourselves why we have failed so miserably in Afghanistan. Even Petraeus thought we could use most of the Iraq template and they would change their wicked ways. Instead, the rule of law remained a joke and we never acted as the honest broker that we did in Iraq. We were divorced from the people. etc, etc etc....

8 or 9 generals over 11 years and we've got nothing to show for it.

Ahmed Shah's brother has already called for a new bloc to defend the North against the Taliban and somewhere some of that heavy weapons are rattling around. Since most of the ANA is northerners anyway, at least they have some military training.

My guess is Karzai escapes and we're back at civil war in less than 6 months after we pull out.

Threadkiller

"And let's not forget it's Latin Grammy night."

I hope Marco Rubio wins!

Rick Ballard

Narciso,

I believe a Kurdish declaration of independence would provide a wonderful conclusion for the Arab Spring. Civil war in Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Syria would keep a lot of Mohametans busy for some time.

narciso

Massoud's brother, that's interesting, well there is some overlap in the Stans, in the Hazara/Tadjik frontier, Karzai was picked because unlike Diem in Vietnam, he was a Pashtun, but the coalition was heavily OTP,

narciso

Yes, but Barzani and/or Talabani, would likely 'have the shortest executive career since that pope that got poisoned,'

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--I believe a Kurdish declaration of independence would provide a wonderful conclusion for the Arab Spring. Civil war in Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Syria would keep a lot of Mohametans busy for some time.

Posted by: Rick Ballard | November 15, 2012 at 08:08 PM--

That would make a wonderful counterpoint to Saladin saving the useless Arabs from themselves those many centuries ago.

maryrose

pagar:
You areright about Kerry being the SOS. Today when McCain was pressed about a Kerry nomination he did not rule it out.

Threadkiller (get of your couch and leave the GOP)

Update on Operation Regiscare.

My brother has turned in paperwork for 30 converts to the Independent party. I have 5 committed to the cause plus myself. I will be going to our registrar to pick up forms to re-register tomorrow morning.

This is the movement. Let the GOP know on the registration rolls that it is right turns only on our path to get our country back!

Threadkiller (get of your couch and leave the GOP)

...Regi-Scare...

Joan

Rice said "that all indications were the attack "began spontaneously" - suggesting it likely sprang from a protest against an anti-Muslim video found on the Internet." The CIA talking point bullets do not say anything about a video being responsible for the demonstration.

How does this excuse her testimony?

narciso

It doesn't, Joan, also for all the sensitivity to Islamic customs, they 'forgot' to check the date in the appropriate calendar, it was not only September 11th, but the 25th of Shawwal,

Rob Crawford

What's the significance of the 25th of Shamwow?

maryrose

Joan:
Rice has been caught flat out lying and all this other mumbo jumbo is white noise to attempt to extricate her from this career ending blunder. I don't think she or Obama anticipated the furor her testimony caused or that anyone would ever question her or "the Won". I love how they are desperately trying to justify this very obvious ploy to ensure his re-election. The fact that they are sticking to their original reason for her statements strains credulity. Any sane person knows her version and the subsequent reason for it is a bunch of hooey.How stupid do they think we are. We are on to Obama and he knows it. He's going down albeit slowly, but his image has been tarnished irretrievably.

narciso

It's the commemoration of the martyring of a Shia prophet, by the Sunni Governor of Medina,

Rob Crawford

Yeah, but my impression is that's true of every day, narc.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

TK,
Since one of the main reasons Republicans keep nominating moderates is an effort to reach Independents, which they seem to presume to be more moderate than rank and file GOP, are you concerned your strategy might have the opposite effect intended?

Clarice

I can't help myself. I keep retuning to DoT's W-S catalog critique:

"Williams-Sonoma says: "Baked by trappist monks at a monastery in the Missouri Ozarks. Order early. Supply is limited."

Price:$39.95

Notes from Drew: Everything about that sales copy just blew my skull. There are trappist monks in the Ozarks? Do they brew artisanal meth? I don't trust fruitcake to begin with. I sure as shit am not trusting fruitcake that comes from a redneck friar. They'll swap out uppers for candied fruit. And yet, supply is limited. Apparently, the market for $40 Ozark fruitcake is ENORMOUS. White women from Bridgehampton ALL THE WAY to Westhampton rely on the monks to deliver their holiday fruitcake every year. Ina Garten's ADORABLE HUSBAND JEFFREY WHO MAKES A LOT OF MONEY loves the sight of a fine white-trash-monk fruitcake any time he comes home. TIE IT UP WITH THE TWINE!"

narciso

You know the odds would dictate, he would get something right, not really, in the LUN

narciso

LOL, Clarice, that seems a dangerous concoction indeed,

Threadkiller (get of your couch and leave the GOP)

Your link about where the Independents place their bets confirmed the logic of this notion, Ig.

Sadly I can't find that link. I thought I bookmarked it.

Little help, please.

centralcal

lmao, Clarice! Guess somehow I missed that DoT critique and the review too.

Sounds pretty plausible though, when you think about it.

Joan

Are Benedictine and Trappist Monks the same, i.e., is a monk a monk? My daughter got a basketball scholarship to this little university in Shawnee, OK when she graduated from high school back in the nineties:

St. Gregory’s University is a highly selective, private, coeducational, residential liberal arts college affiliated with the Benedictine traditions of the Catholic Church. SGU was founded in 1875 by Benedictine monks who came to this country as missionaries to work with the Indian population of what was then Indian Territory. It was originally chartered as The Catholic University of Oklahoma in 1916 and today it continues to be the only Catholic University in the state.
I guess my point is, there are monks all over. :) Don't know that these monks did bake, but they certainly drank their wine. My daughter said most of them were a hoot. :) Well, to be honest, she thought most of them were squirrely--maybe it was their robes. She was raised in the non-denominational American Church of London, and then we joined the Presbyterians when we returned to the States.

henry

Well, Trappist shine from the Ozarks is exceptional. Rivals the best WV can offer, and doesn't even blind you! I'm sure their meth is very good, but that's not how I roll. btw I always consider fruitcake as an inland version of the dead fish in "The Godfather".

zf

"Oh, come on, folks! Everyone knows the CIA issued those talking points because Obama threatened Petraeus with outing the Broadwell dalliance if he didn't take the party line. See, Glenn Beck has already told us that Obama knew about the affair before he even nominated Petraeus for the job. It was all a set-up."

Sarcasm aside, that scenario is a lot more plausible than anything ODumbo has claimed.

Also, don't put words in people mouths. Beck didn't say flat out that it was a fact Obama knew about the affair, only that sources have said members of the WH knew before the nomination and if that is so he found it *unlikely* Obama didn't know. Which anyone with common sense would agree.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Little help, please.

Posted by: Threadkiller (get of your couch and leave the GOP) | November 15, 2012 at 09:00 PM--

TK,
I mentioned to another JOMer today that I suffer from sympathetic chemo brain so it's unlikely I'll be the source of your help.
BTW there's a small typo in your name/subscript.

Threadkiller (get of your couch and leave the GOP)
Clarice

BTW if you believe this Petraeus B.S. about why he testified as he did, pls raise your hand. A gentleman from SCAM will come by to take down your contact info. Thanks.

Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)

Get off your couch and leave the GOP!

Joan

Narciso, Christie's Muslim outreach foursome includes a man who believes "Jews and Christians will be swiftly punished by Allah"?!

If the US doesn't watch out, and, if it's not already too late, we are going to be just like England and France with entire cities and areas overtaken by muslims, and I don't care if they are peaceful. Leave.

Gee, I'm sour tonight.

It just amazes me that any American woman would convert to Islam, wear a head covering or a burka, and adhere to all of the rules governing women in Muslim countries. Why don't the feminists become outraged over that, rather than a man mentioning a binder, when they know full well he's talking about resumes? I'm in such a mean mood tonight I hope that all American women who convert to Islam have to undergo circumcision. With twigs.

Maybe I should stop now. :) I think all of this is pent up and just now shooting out because I held in my anger since Nov. 6.

Clarice

The more preposterous the stories get--and this one's pretty preposterous--the more Dr K's theory that Petraeus hoped to avoid exposure if he toed the line gains strength.

centralcal

Well, SCAM won't be getting my contact info - at least not today.

I was hoping that Petraeus might follow the Althouse/Meade thinking - standing up and telling the whole TRUTH now as a first step in rehabilitating his reputation. But, maybe not, if the above report is accurate.

zf

While this may explain why Susan Rice would say what she said, it does not explain why the WH had her spouting these talking points over and over again when those talking points had already been known to be false for nearly three days!

Personally, I don't buy that she didn't know what was going on, she would have to be truly stupid to accept being the spokesperson and now wonder why someone with more clout and knowledge was not chosen instead. Also, you telling me she didn't know the truth when the truth was out there for everybody to see almost immediately? The fact that the video excuse was a pile of crap was well known well outside of the WH and DC long before she began to mouth off.

NJ Jan

Clarice@8:56pm

I am catching up on threads and just read your Trappist monk fruitcake comment. I was laughing so hard, I was crying. I have a mental image of Muffy and Buffy tearing into their Ozark special treat.

narciso

That's the craziest review, since that veet product, that was mentioned some months ago.

I'm sorry to bring it up, Joan, but since I got a whiff of Christie, I have never trusted him, it's a toss up if he's merely naive or something worse,

bgates on a phone

there are indications that extremists participated in the violent demonstrations

The implication here is that the CIA was open to the possibility that American diplomatic facilities were attacked, and American diplomatic personnel murdered, by moderate centrists.

Clarice

He's making a big mistake not taking the Fifth until they give him immunity and then letting the truth out.I know someone tried to persuade him to do just that.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Aren't all Middle East mobs chanting "death to the Great Satan", burning churches and stoning and raping any hapless women they come across made up almost exclusively of moderate centrists?

Clarice

bgates, when I'm dying I beg you to call or write so I can laugh my way into whatever follows.

Rick Ballard

Ignatz,

Severe moderate centrists. Extremism in pursuit of moderation is no vice.

narciso

Well judging by Mr. Magoo, I mean Clapper's description of the Ilkwan as 'mostly secular'
that's about right, 'lord love a duck'

Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)

The implication here is that the CIA was open to the possibility that American diplomatic facilities were attacked, and American diplomatic personnel murdered, by moderate centrists.

And Jindal wants the moderate centrist vote...

Clarice

Yeah, they have "balance" in Arabic incised on their scimitars.

NJ Jan

Word coming out of today's hearings is that the CIA talking points were altered by someone in the White House and then used by Rice. They are all lying to save their fifedoms. Good luck to anyone trying to sort this mess out. It is just one set of lies after another.

Joan

Oh, Narciso, your article about Christie was informative. I don't know why I went on a rant ..... and then become completely unhinged about American women turning to Islam. forgive me if my crudeness offended you. I plead temporary stupidity--it just annoys me and baffles me why Americans put up with Christian haters and Jew haters proliferating in our country--and thinking it's the thing to do...in the name of diversity. I always enjoy your comments and links.
I think part of my pique was reading that about monks in the Ozarks being white trash or red necks.....that annoyed me. I'm sure that each part of the country has its own share of hicks, and I especially get tired of this part of the country being tarred with that word.

Janet

I'm with you Joan. Here's an old video (Walid Shoebat is one of the speakers) that is interesting.
Our leaders are such fools.

narciso

No, it's been a taxing week and then some, I felt this way, myself four years ago, you can check the archives, when a lie, was traduced as the truth, I've become much more cynical since then,

Barry Dauphin

Help Wanted: Secretary of State.
Start Date: January 2013.
Qualifications: Female to replace wife of a former administration official. Must say whatever the CIA tells you to say. Independent thinking not required and probably unhelpful. Must be willing to be patronized by male officials in authority. Pay 19% below males in the administration.

glenda-moved to an island far, far away

fan-fiction?
...
Hello, Susan..we really need your help. I know you're busy with your bunions getting ready to fit in Hillary's shoes..SO, IF..you can promise to lie, subjugate, deny, funnel funds as well as State has done under Hill(do you want a hybrid or a 450Mercedes along with free travel with your partner worldwide)?

..anyhoo--you are going on 5 Sunday shows to further our campaign. Petraeus has stopped co-operating and the good things happening in our gun operations(Mexico and Syria) need to continue.

Also, if we scare the people with more evil conservative filmmakers, war on women--loved that idea from Bill and the connections Huma provides-- we will not be blamed for deserting Israel and allowing Iran to prosper.

If the video meme fails, we will use you to further our old standby, race. Thank you, comrade.

pagar

It is really hard to believe no one is commenting on this.

http://sfluxe.com/2012/11/15/tragedy-at-veterans-parade-in-texas-this-afternoon/

"
Over a dozen people were injured, 10 of them critically, and 4 deaths are being reported this evening out of Midland, Texas , after a Union Pacific train hit a flatbed 18-wheeler with veterans and their spouses on board, heading to a “Hunt for Heroes” parade."

centralcal

Richard Grenell on Twitter is suggesting (seriously, I think) Diane Feinstein. Sounds good to me.

I asked (and he didn't answer) if he had any Admin positions in mind for Barbara Boxer.

centralcal

Thanks for bringing that up, pagar. I saw a quick headline about that just as I was leaving work. Following your link right now.

Clarice

Terrible tragedy, pagar. What else can be said of that?

pagar

"They are all lying to save their fifedoms. "

Wait till you get the official investigation head official's report that Muslims can do no wrong.

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/matthew-vadum/benghazi-investigator-slams-america-islamophobes/

Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)

"I asked (and he didn't answer) if he had any Admin positions in mind for Barbara Boxer."

The 'Bama-Sutra"

NJ Jan

Pavarotti

The train wreck is horrible. The veterans are part of Wounded Warriers program. I pray for them and their families

NJ Jan

PAGAR not Pavarotti. Autocorrect strikes again. Sorry

MarkO

I have no idea what Glenn Beck thinks. I think that it is difficult to believe that Obama did not know about Petraeus's vulnerabilities early on. I still believe that the "General's" opening line on Benghazi was heroically in support of a candidate for President, his boss.

I wish I could expect him to expiate his folly, but I foresee tergiversation.

I am prepared to draw from all the record and to impute to Obama the malice he historically deserves in matters of extortion lite. I am also prepared to argue that the foolishness of Petraeus made him a target for Obama, if not a foreign entity. The results are easy to conclude. They require no notion of set up or conspiracy. They are the natural outcome of the circumstances existing at the time.

Finally, I would argue that if these two lusty generals are the architects of our plans in Afganistan, it is small wonder we are losing and leaving ASAP.

Thanks to them, the left has been able to discredit the CIA and the Pentagon in one fell swoop. And you thought the storm was a gift to Obama.

henry

Joan, I grew up near the Ozarks. If monks there are white trash, so is this Ivy Leaguer. I just find the W-S catalog to be very silly and need a little humor like the rest of us. In case you were wondering, gun deer season starts Saturday at first light ... I think I'll hunt backhoes this year, where did I put that LAWS?

Melinda Romanoff

pagar-

If the driver had a text in the can on his phone while driving that rig,...well they're aren't hairs short enough on his body to pull with a rocket, if he survived the wreck. No way the driver isn't at fault, even if there was a "flagger".

Melinda Romanoff

henry-

Don't forget to YouTube that.

I'll do the search from here.

Captain Hate

Whoever invented autocorrect should have everything on his/her tombstone misspelled. Preferably soon.

Umm, are those buttons, seams or is it a bit nippy out?

Iggy FTW. Two big reasons to go to those parties.

Rick Ballard

Henry,

Not backhoes. They're too handy if we get to prog planting season.

Clarice

Tanks, henry, That's my thought, too.

Clarice

The fustercluck continues: Lanny Davis wants the FBI investigated for searching Petraeus' emails:http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/11/15/Former-Clinton-Counsel-Investigate-FBI-Over-Petraeus-Email-Probe

narciso

How's the dinner coming through, clarice.

NJ Jan

CH@10:15pm
Pavarotti and I agree. Autocorrect is evil.

xbradtc

Clarice, why would Petraeus need immunity?

His previous briefing to Congress wasn't under oath, so perjury is out.

moxieman

"Umm, are those buttons, seams or is it a bit nippy out?"

----------------
Well, this is a thread about "talking points."

:)

Clarice

Everything seems to e turning out as planned, narciso.

narciso

The well intentioned Mr, Humphries, really set off a 'rice with mangoes' situation, a real mess.

pagar

Clarice, I don't think there is any thing else one can do for the victims. I was simply hoping that one of our Texans was more knowledgeable and could give us some more info.
The fact that Wounded Warriors were involved compounds the tragic aspects of the disaster.
Prays for all and their families.
---------------------------------------------
NJ Nan, Auto spell has made my day.

Melinda Romanoff

henry-

I guess your neighbor has, once again, upped the ante for the start of "The Season".

Anybody else catch that the "Iron Dome" works? This is so cool.

Makes Patriot missiles seem expensive, in comparison.

Captain Hate

His previous briefing to Congress wasn't under oath, so perjury is out.

As DoT pointed out the other day, lying to Congress is a crime; under oath or otherwise.

Clarice

xbradtc, even though his testimony the first time wasn't under oath,, there are criminal penalties for lying to a congressional investigator.

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