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November 30, 2012

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boris

"Minor noted the existence of doubts--not that the court had them--and that it didn't need to answer the question"

Actually the logic holds no matter who has the doubts. They specifically said about NBC ther are no doubts. So any doubts they mention in any context are questions unrelated to NBC.

Clarice

Looks like Crump and the MArtin family are about to be exposed as liars in the effort to get the full recording of "Dee Dee's" conversation.http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/11/30/trayvon-martin-case-whoopsie-scheme-team-mega-fail-dee-dee-is-kaiser-soze-motion-to-compel/

Jim Miller

From Fran Lebowitz's "Children: Pro or Con?":

"Notoriously insensitive to subtle shifts in mood, children will persist in discussing the color of a recently sighted cement-mixer long after one's own interest in the topic has waned."

That particular fault is understandable in children, but not in adults, unless those adults have some psychological defect.

(Of course, some adults will use this tactic in a deliberate attempt to sabotage other discussions.)

Captain Hate

Place your bets on how long it will last.

Since I'm such a horrible gambler I should probably enter something relatively short just to keep it from happening anytime soon.

Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)

Did anybody bet 10 minutes?

Just kidding.

Danube of Thought

The only judge ever to consider the question of "at birth" being synonymous with "natural born" was Judge Alsup in the McCain case, and he saw it my way. Granted it was dicta (Ankeny remains the only case ever to adjudicate "natural born" on the merits, but it is dicta concerning the very issue under consideration, not a peripheral matter. Relying on Section 1401, he wrote:

This order finds it highly probable, for the purposes of this motion for provisional relief, th
at Senator McCain is a natural born citizen. They specifically said about NBC there are no doubts.

Not exactly. They specifically said that there was no doubt that a person born on US soil to two American parents was an NBC. As the Ankeny court noted, they left open the question of, among others, children born on US soil to one American and one alien.

Danube of Thought

Let me try that again:

The only judge ever to consider the question of "at birth" being synonymous with "natural born" was Judge Alsup in the McCain case, and he saw it my way. Granted it was dicta (Ankeny remains the only case ever to adjudicate "natural born" on the merits, but it is dicta concerning the very issue under consideration, not a peripheral matter. Relying on Section 1401, he wrote:

This order finds it highly probable, for the purposes of this motion for provisional relief, that Senator McCain is a natural born citizen.

They specifically said about NBC there are no doubts.

Not exactly. They specifically said that there was no doubt that a person born on US soil to two American parents was an NBC. As the Ankeny court noted, they left open the question of, among others, children born on US soil to one American and one alien.

Jane - Mock the Media!

Janet,

I feel the same way x10.

Captain Hate

That's a great link, Clarice. It sounds like a whole lotta bad actors in that case are about to get the hook. There are so many people, including tertiary dimwits like LeBron James and Spike Lee, who need to have their simple faces rubbed in it but probably never will. Still there are primary and secondary players who appear to be getting prepped for high colonics and then some.

Jane - Mock the Media!

I think you should put some money on it TK - for incentive.

Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)

$100.00 to Jane if I falter.

Bookmark it.

boris

They specifically said that there was no doubt that a person born on US soil to two American parents was an NBC

Not exactly, they specifically defined NBC as a person born on US soil to two American parents and therefore no doubt a citizen.

See how easy it is for DoT's skillset to shift meaning.

boris

DoT makes it easy peezy for anyone who wants to follow DOT's version ... which in truth is more consistent with modern sensibilities about individual civil rights.

IMO a bit of a whitewash of the founders.

Danube of Thought on IPad

Boris, let me simply quote the Minor Court:

"At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens..."

I'll leave it to others to decide whether I have "shifted meaning."

Jane - Mock the Media!

Wow - I like that!

Jack is Back!

Clarice,

GZ and the Scheme Team have been getting a lot of local play here the last few days but I have been reluctant to aggregate it all and post. There is also the eyewitness testimony - a guy who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman hitting him MMA (mixed martial arts) style. He was 30 feet away looking out his living room window. Yelled he was calling 911 and heard a "pop" and saw the guy who was on top fall. Now the school records of Trayvon have been subpoenaed after the State tried to block them.

Also, there is an unrelated shooting of a young AA in Jacksonville by a 40 something Caucasian man that is on Corey's plate. Seems the guy thought the kid was going for gun while sitting in his car listening to loud music and he got his gun and shot the kid making it into another Trayvon type hold your ground kind of shooting.

It looks like the GZ case is going to be coming to a head here pretty soon and will give us all a break from jumping over the cliff and whether any of us are NBC.

Janet

I'm sure this was discussed here during Libby's trial which was long before I started posting here.

Captain, When did you start posting here? I was lurking during the Libby stuff but didn't start posting until..I think...around Spring 2009.

Captain Hate

Janet I believe I started posting here during the 2008 campaign and iirc you were already here although I could be wrong on the latter part.

maryrose

I received a link from Insty that led me to JOM during the Libby trial. I believe in what Sue postulated.
I think Armitage was going to be prosecuted by Fitzgerald if he talked. Fitzgerald was always shiftily targeting Cheney, Rove and then had to be satisfied with Libby. That the original leaker, Armitage got off scott free is amazing to me. I remember the day of the Libby verdict. I was so sure he would be acquitted. It was the first time I started to mistrust our legal system. All the people at NBC are culpable for lying and covering up the facts. It was at that time that I stopped watching that network. An innocent man's livelihood was on the line and they did nothing to clarify the situation and consequently were promoted and suffered no consequences.

Clarice

If you got a gift pack when you showed up, Janet probably was here before you, CH. %^)

Threadkiller

I missed most of the Libby case. Wasn't Ted Wells involved?

Threadkiller

"Yesterday, in his closing argument, he struck a much different note. Speaking to the jury, Wells said Libby "has been in my protection for the past month."

Now, he told them, he was turning Libby over to them.

Then, as he asked the jury to presume Libby's innocence and "give him back to me," Wells began to cry. He sat down at the defense table and wiped his eyes.

It was a strange moment in a strange case.

Before beginning his argument yesterday morning, he paced in front of the empty jury box. He stood in a corner --tall, athletic, mustachioed -- like a fighter imaging the bout to come. Under the outwardly gentle guise you could see an inner toughness of someone who will use any combination of punches to win big.

Family and friends came to watch him work. At one point he stopped to check on his 83-year-old mother, Phyllis, who sat in a wheelchair in the courtroom aisle.

There were moments when he seemed out of sync, checking on how much time he had left, hurrying through slides in his PowerPoint presentation.

At other times, he was impressive, trying to convince the jury that the prosecution was attempting to ruin Libby based on a few conversations with reporters. In charcoal suit, white shirt and red tie, he marched through pertinent evidence, occasionally lapsing into shtick.

He said he didn't agree with the way the prosecution portrayed his opening argument. "Maybe I was drunk or something," he said, working the jury like a Jay Leno audience."

http://www.scooterlibby.org/news/Read.aspx?ID=265

Janet

It was the first time I started to mistrust our legal system. All the people at NBC are culpable for lying and covering up the facts. It was at that time that I stopped watching that network.

Same here, maryrose.

I don't think I posted before... maybe May 2009. I read everything...but didn't post.(I have like 3 thick file folders full of Libby notes) I didn't know what a "web site URL" was in the third line & figured I needed one to post! Hah!

I went to the Meet Clarice lunch before the 9-12-2009 rally & I hadn't been posting that long. I "knew" everyone though from being a lurker.

Captain Hate

Maybe I'm getting you and bad mixed up, Janet; because both of you were very considerate and welcoming.

Threadkiller

Hmm, I find this interesting:

Ted Wells served as Bill Bradley's treasurer for his 2000 run for President.

Bill Bradley had this to say about Obama:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNS-Ioyfk94

Ted Wells wife is Nina Wells.

Nina wells is the Sec State that Donofrio sued.

Clarice

Janet is a gift from God..the most warm hearted person in the world--Makes Opie's Aunt Bea look like a monster.

Janet

Hah! Thanks, Clarice.

Jane - Mock the Media!

Janet is a gift from God..the most warm hearted person in the world--

Once again, I agree x ten!

boris
"At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens..."

DoT claims this supports his interpretation rather than mine. BS.

To repeat for anyone easily swayed by authoritative misreading ...

1. A person born on US soil to two American parents is therefore no doubt a citizen.

Why is there no doubt? Because ...

2. That is the definition of a Natural Born Citizen (in the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar).

Apparently once a misreading has taken hold it must be difficult for some people to ever read the original clear English meaning.

boris

The part of the quote DoT left out ...

The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.
Then follows with ...

1. A person born on US soil to two American parents is without doubt a citizen.

Why is there no doubt? Because ...

2. That is the definition of a Natural Born Citizen (in the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar).

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Makes Opie's Aunt Bea look like a monster.

Posted by: Clarice | December 01, 2012 at 02:37 PM--

Actually according to Andy Griffith and others on the set she was the only real PITA on the show.

AC

Thanks for that wiki excerpt, AC.
Presumably the cost to benefit ratio on fitting cargo planes was considered too high considering there's typically only a couple of drivers on board.

Coming soon to a theater near you, JOM's daddy in the remake of "They Were Expendable". :)

Your welcome. Agree that was their rationale but it's not like a blown up cargo plane can't cause damage on the ground-- they are currently looking at fire suppression systems for cargo aircraft due to several lithium battery events (so the cargo pilots aren't completely expendable, lol).

As to narciso's comment, the CIA reference was not that they investigated 800, but this..

http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/31365-best-evidence-twa-flight-800-cia-animation-video.htm

I've read Cashill's book on it and was not impressed with his conclusion. Not really fully convinced of anything on this one either way. If it wasn't sabotage it was the only in-flight fuel tank explosion of a commercial carrier in history, which is a pretty good track record.

boris

I'll leave it to others to decide whether I have "shifted meaning."

This is your "shifted meaning" ...

They specifically said that there was no doubt that a person born on US soil to two American parents was [a Natural Born Citizen].
But in your quote ...
it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens ...
See, that's not for others to "decide". No jury no judge here DoT.

Chubby

Janet: ((how many of these programs do we need?))

as many as enrich the pols and bureaucrats who run them, as in the obamaphone program. "They got millions and all I got was this lousy obamaphone."

H.R.Block

Anyone remember when we could deduct sales tax, credit card interest, medical costs (without having to spend a month in intensive care), and a hundred other deductions which offset the higher tax rates of the 80's?

Seems like a long time ago...

cathyf

H.R. -- I maintain that this was another more subtle cause for the mortgage bubble/meltdown. Before Reagan's tax reform, you bought a washer/dryer from Sears and put it on your Sears card. Bought a car from a car company and financed it with a car loan. Etc., etc. All of that interest was tax deductible, just like mortgage interest was tax deductible.

The interest rates for these various purposes were different, because the loans were not really very well collateralized. (If you buy a new car it loses about a third of its value as you drive it off the lot. So any loan with more than a 67-33 LTV iss under-collateralized.) Also the loan term was different depending upon the asset -- washing machines didn't have 30-year loans on them.

By retaining the deductibility of mortgage interest while eliminating it for every other form of loan, the tax reform created a whole new industry -- the home-equity credit industry. This is an entire business devoted to folding, spindling and mutilating general consumer debt and then spitting it out as deductible mortgage interest. There is lots of money tied up in those deductions, and so there is lots of room to shred those totally sensible credit practices from consumer loans.

Because of the novelty of equity credit, there was no history of how they would behave in bad credit scenarios, so they ended up being valued as plain old mortgages, which are much less risky assets. And all of a sudden we woke up in about 2006/2007 and realized that we had been undervaluing default risk for mortgages, for completely simple and understandable reasons.

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