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December 13, 2012

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Mark Folkestad

First?

jimmyk

One of Will's better efforts. But I'm not sure about this:

If, however, you harbor the antisocial desire — stigmatized as such by America’s judgmental tax code — to bequeath your wealth to your children, this would be an excellent month to die.

My understanding is that you can give money to your children now, up to the current $5M exemption, without incurring taxes. No need to die. I hope Will doesn't cause any needless suicides or parricides.

Danube of Thought

Jimmyk, my understanding is that all you can give in a year without being liable for the gift tax is something like $12,000 per recipient.

NK

Estate taxes? My children are on notice not to worry about estate/gift tax rates and exemption levels.....

Danube of Thought

CBS:

(MoneyWatch) Individuals can generally receive up to $13,000 a year as a gift without getting hit by a federal gift tax. In 2013, as a result of cumulative indexing, this amount is projected to increase to $14,000 per person. Parents also may use the technique of "gift splitting," or combining gifts to a child, so that each makes a gift of $13,000 ($14,000 in 2013), which amounts to $26,000 in tax-free gifts ($28,000 in 2013) per year.

My understanding is that the giver, not the recipient, is liable for the tax.

henry

DoT, the penalty tax is something like 125% of the gift.

rse

I am going to reply to Janet's comment on last night's Dalrymple link here.

Lots of what I work on is so concentrated on trying to change people for political power that the actual effects get ignored.

We are about to embark on what of the biggest social engineering projects ever and the only people other than me who know the whole story have no knowledge of economics or history.

Most days I feel a bit like it's August 1914 and I am listening to bright young men from Germany, France, Belgium, and England talk about how much fun the war will be. And how they will show the other side what is wrong with their ideals.

Not to be mean but I cannot tell you how stupid the Diva's principal is. It is useful for me because he repeats what he has been told. But he was clearly a weak student and went to a no name religious college where he got an ed degree. The idea of feeling and believing clearly fits his brain more than logical thinking. He appears to have a learning disability where he cannot process verbal info without a visual prompt. He probably did not learn anything from lectures because he cannot follow basic unexpected questions very well and frequently gives an answer confirming the very problem the concerned parent just asked about without realizing he did that.

So someone who thinks poorly finds the idea of doing and feeling quite compatible with what works for him. The talented faculty are in an uproar and the least talented are the ones on the same wavelength. That is likely true all over now.

It will take a school shooting or other tragedy to get through these peabrained to begin with and then primed with theories that just happen to be false.

And I am being graphic but not mean. The calibre of ed administrators these days is basically just slightly above room temperature. And they are in charge of people who are better teachers than they ever were so there's also resentment.

jimmyk

The way it was explained to me, one can give now against the $5M exemption. Whatever you give counts toward (or against?) what you can give when you die. So if you give $5M now, anything you leave in your estate is subject to tax without exemption. That's not affected if the exemption subsequently drops to $1M, since you gave the $5M while it was exempt. (I'm not sure what happens if you give $4M now.)

It surprised me, but I know of people who are making large distributions now because of this "loophole" (apologies to DoT), who have consulted with lawyers and estate planners. I believe the $13K gift exemption may be the amount you can give without having it count against your estate tax exemption.

Danube of Thought on IPad

I think that's correct, jimmyk. To the extent you exceed the $13K limit you begin to erode the exemption. But there's no tax payable.

(I was confused.)

Walter

If it helps, you're both right. No tax is due on small gifts. Every person gets a lifetime credit against gift or estate taxes, to be used during their life or when they die. The credit is larger this year than it will be next year, but there is no recapture if you use it now.

Old Lurker

Been with lawyers all week on that issue, Jimmy. Yes one can gift $5.1M each to whomever you like before 12/31. Round number $10M from a husband and wife to their kids or to a trust for them. That amount counts against the future death tax exclusion. But the exclusion amount drops to $1M each ($2M per couple) Jan 1. Lawyers assume some new law will come to be next year and many of them expect the limit to increase from Jan 1 $1M to $3.5M but as they say "who the hell knows".

The trick is to downstream $10M but in a way that will be protected from bad acts by the kids or their spouses, and the REAL trick is to give it away but still benefit from it in the future.

BTW the $14,000 per person is unlimited and does not go on the Gift Tax Return that keeps score on the use of the big exclusions.

Lots of heartburn this month...

Old Lurker

Sorry, $13,000 not 14,000 per year to anyone, from each parent. Younger daughter emailed me to note the limit had gone from 12 to 13 in the past and wondered if her Mom and I had miscalculated.

Checks written directly to educational institutions or medical providers do not count.

Kids.

Old Lurker

Also note that if that gift is of assets that will appreciate, then the amount of future tax saved is 55% of the current value of the gift plus 55% of the future appreciation.

Like I said.

Heartburn.

hit and run

If anyone needs a place to "gift" any amount for tax avoidance purposes, I'm your man.

I'm just saying, I'm here for you.

cathyf

[...rudely shoving h&r aside...]

ME ME ME ME ME ME PICK MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Clarice

Cathy, hit..anyone..I think Business Insider is wrong. $1.10 minus .10 is $1 to my ming.http://www.businessinsider.com/question-that-harvard-students-get-wrong-2012-12

Stephanie

Damn, hit beat me to it... but I'm your woman. Err.. I'm your long lost niece. Err... let's just say I'm here for you, too. In that totally friendly nothing implied sorta way. IYKWIMAITYD

Clarice

I know some people have given their kids their homes this year and pay them rent to cover the upkeep. I think that's a terrible idea.

Stephanie

Cathyf cut in line. Just sayin!

Old Lurker

Hell Cathy you would be a horrible person to be on the receiving end of a gift in trust because you are way too smart and way too detail oriented to let the Trustee invite the Donor to pull all the strings the Donor would like to pull after the gift transfers. It would be hard to find a non family trustee willing to get between you and a donor.

Sorry.

Old Lurker

DoT "My understanding is that the giver, not the recipient, is liable for the tax."

True that. Unless you live in Maryland where the dead guys pays tax on his estate, and the recipient (in some cases) pays tax on the amounts received from the estate. (We have both an Estate Tax and an Inheritance Tax, lucky us).

hit and run

Clarice:
I think that's a terrible idea.

Indeed. Much better to give it to a friend you know from a blog.

OL:
Hell Cathy you would be a horrible person to be on the receiving end of a gift in trust because you are way too smart

That's why I'm perfect for such an arrangement, being unencumbered by such a burden.

centralcal

O.L.: Sadly, both of my parents are deceased, so technically I am now an orphan. I am "adoptable." (hint, hint)

Old Lurker

Clarice we spent the week thinking of just that both for the Potomac and Nantucket houses but the IRS conditions of the "QPRT" are just to onerous should one live long enough to have things change with the kid or the kid's spouse. "Renting" the house simply for the carry costs is a huge problem.

So we chickened out.

If anyone wants the unused docs, I have paid for them.

:-)

Melinda Romanoff

Exemption for $5,200,000 expires Dec. 31, goes back to $1,000,000, lifetime. I believe the $13K drops back to $10K.

Old Lurker

"too"

Mother would be so unimpressed with my grammar.

NK

OL-- your tax musings are hilarious. Did you ever meet an old client of mine, Bill Condren (RIP), you talk taxes just like him.

Old Lurker

I think you are correct Mel. Note that the $5.2 is already reduced by previous gifts > 12/13 per year and that amount includes the premiums paid on life insurance that might be owned in an insurance trust. Like I said...round it to $5x2 = $10M per couple.

RichatUF

Hell, this the free money line.

If anyone needs a place to "gift" any amount for tax avoidance purposes, I'm your man.

I'm just saying, I'm here for you.

I'm giving the stink eye to hit. Just saying I live close by and all. And that I love you. Thanks.

Peter

Minus 5 at the Ras today. Zero's popularity peaked at just the right time to get re-elected. Unbelievable. Pinch me when this nightmare is over.

Old Lurker

Sounds like a real nice guy, NK.

:-)

Melinda Romanoff

OL-

GRAT? Been signing a bunch, and the Qprt tactic as well.

Old Lurker

Mel, GRATs and all other versions changing the A are interesting but don't work as well for real estate assets as for securities and they get real messy when control and income retention are important for the time after they terminate.

Old Lurker

And Mel...no fair intervening on behalf of YL...you too are way too smart.

NK

Ole Bill Condren was a character, he owned 2 Derby, and 1 Preakness winner, but he never won the owner's career Triple Crown at Belmont, which was basically in his backyard growing up. His family were Tamany Dems, and he made a fortune in the 70s syndicating real estate tax loss deals. After '86, he took up more honest livelihoods like Corporate jet leasing and race horses. Does Paul Tagliabue still live on the Bethesda-Potomac border?

Melinda Romanoff

GRAT is a foreit, but cash wise is largely a "scratch trade" over time. You get paid back in cash over time what you put into it.

Oh, goodie, UK just cut to negative watch by S&P.

Bye.

RichatUF

Zero's popularity peaked at just the right time to get re-elected. Unbelievable. Pinch me when this nightmare is over.

Was thinking about this the other day. Maybe CA leads the way, although we don't have a recall statute. IIRC after Davis won re-election, his popularity promptly collapsed, and he lost his seat about a year later. Not sure I can take solace in the administration's popularity sinking into the mid-20s though-too much opportunity for mischief. Wake me when the long national nightmare is over.

Old Lurker

He means "forfeit" and is right about that.

To summarize my meetings, I said to my long time lawyer "So Tom, what you are telling me is that it is real real hard to give something away but keep it too. Damn."

Danube of Thought on IPad

I think Tagliabue is now living in Roger Goodell's head.

Captain Hate

LOL DoT. There was a lot of empty space available.

Stephanie

I think Tagliabue is now living in Roger Goodell's head.

Bet those furnishings are as sparse and ratty as a crack house.

MarkO

Apparently, the idea of due process has not caught on in the NFL.

Charlie (Colorado)

Zero's popularity peaked at just the right time to get re-elected.

Coincidentally just the time that all negative stories about the administration were suspended by the legacy media.

Jane:  Mock the Media

So are Menedez and Napolitano having an affair? What one won't do to save his seat in Congress.

Danube of Thought on IPad

They had to pass it to see what's in it:

"Health insurance premiums may as much as double for some small businesses and individual buyers in the U.S. when the Affordable Care Act’s major provisions start in 2014, Aetna Inc. (AET)’s chief executive officer said. While subsidies in the law will shield some people, other consumers who make too much for assistance are in for 'premium rate shock'” Mark Bertolini, who runs the third-biggest U.S. health-insurance company, told analysts yesterday at a conference in New York. The prospect has spurred discussion of having Congress delay or phase in parts of the law, he said."

Congress can do nothing if the GOP declines to go along. These bastards own this thing, let 'em stew in their own juice until they're ready to talk repeal.

NK

Goodell-- obviously he's not big on legal process and the sound administration of justice, but I will say this about "bounty gate." the subtext to all that is that American rules football, as we've known it for 60 years or so, is at risk -- dire risk. The Plaintiffs lawyers are loaded for bear, and the Congress critters would love to get involved-- mostly at the HS/college level, but if hard shell helmets are banned, or manufacture and use become uninsurable because of the ongoing concussion injury litigations against the NFL and other football industry members, it gets to the NFL level very quickly. Before the end of this decade, the world's most profitable professional sport, the NFL, may be massively restructured, not just financially, but how the game is played. Think rugby tackling rules and soft headgear. Far less likely than 50% it happens that way, but it is a real enough risk that I bet Goodell probably spends most of his working day on safety and injury issues at this point. He had to go after the Bounty cretins, big time, so as to not give the bottomfeeder plaintiffs' lawyer ammunition that NFL style football is inherently dangerous, and per se liability should apply to injuries. The end of kickoffs may be next, and it may not stop there.

Captain Hate

Before this week I had no reason not to lump Tagliabue in with the rest of the loads who've overseen the various sports leagues with as much integrity as some inept figurehead that Vince McMahon installs for comedic purposes. I knew the owners disliked him for some reason (maybe he didn't job the players association enough in the last negotiations he participated in; although imo he still rolled the inept Gene Upshaw without it being completely humiliating, which maybe the vindictive owners wanted) and he seemed to be good at strongarming municipalities into ponying up for stadiums for the teams.

But in this move, which seems to inoculate the owners against any lawsuits by the players, he realizes how clueless and high-handed Goodell has been in this. Roger's witless yammering about his concern for player safety during a season where the Ravens played four games in 17 days is really too much. The owners owe Tags for him saving the sport from the excesses of an egomaniacal commissioner who began the season with replacement refs. As much as I criticize the other sports, I don't think any of them have demanded that the fans pay the full freight for a demonstrably sub-standard product.

NK

DoT- I agree- let the muddle have to pay big time co-pay and contribution increases, and have their wages cut or be laid off because of Obamacare. Let them experience Dem policy up close and personal. Some will demand single payer to cure the problem, but I bet that is far less than 50% of the muddle.

GMax

There was a lot of empty space available.

LOL

GMax

Thinking about setting up a Brit VI corp to allow me to earn tax free like Google and others. Anyone know a good tax lawyer to bounce the idea off? My CPA has little experience in offshore corp and accounts, so I need to cast a wider net. But if investments are subject to 3.8% Obamacare tax PLUS we go back to 39% and start chewing into exemptions and deductions, a dollar borrowed by my various LLCs from a BVI corp, would yield a US deduction for interest expense and the revenue on the other side is tax free so a net savings of 42.8% OR More. ANNUALLY for the next 4 year at least. WHOA.

cathyf
Cathy, hit..anyone..I think Business Insider is wrong. $1.10 minus .10 is $1
Try the following puzzle:
A bat and ball cost $1.10.

The bat costs one dollar more than the ball.

How much does the ball cost?


T = cost of bat
L = cost of ball
T+L = $1.10
T-L = $1
T = $1+L
($1+L)+L = $1.10
2*L = $1.10 - $1
L = 5 cents

cathyf
Hell Cathy you would be a horrible person to be on the receiving end of a gift in trust because you are way too smart and way too detail oriented to let the Trustee invite the Donor to pull all the strings the Donor would like to pull after the gift transfers. It would be hard to find a non family trustee willing to get between you and a donor.
But, but, you don't understand! I'm LAZY!!! No worries that I'll get in any trustee's way!

[A tour bus full of people is on a narrow, twisty mountain road, and the driver loses control and the bus goes plummeting over the sheer drop. An economist is on the bus, and in the long seconds before they crash into the valley floor far below, he stands up and shouts, "Don't worry! The free market will take care of it!"]

Captain Hate

Tammy Bruce, in rare form, is slattering Jamie Foxx, Savannah Guthrie and Dana Perino all at once. She's obviously in the Christmas mood for giving.

Danube of Thought on IPad

"$1.10 minus .10 is $1 to my mind."

True. But $1.10 plus .10 is not $1.10.

henry

"Health insurance premiums may as much as double for some small businesses and individual buyers in the U.S. when the Affordable Care Act’s major provisions start in 2014

Yeah those provisions will do that with fully insured products. Killing off corporate self insurance makes things much worse -- possibly another doubling of health care costs to the employer. If a product gets a price increase of 2-300% with no increase in value received, do you keep buying it?

GMax

Or put another way, a $1 bat is not $1 more than a dime ball.

James D.

Some will demand single payer to cure the problem, but I bet that is far less than 50% of the muddle.

I don't think I'm willing to take that bet. I wouldn't have bet that the muddle would re-elect Zero with $4 gas, negative wage growth, 8% reported unemployment, the Middle East on fire, etc. etc. etc. And yet they did...


cathyf
Before the end of this decade, the world's most profitable professional sport, the NFL, may be massively restructured, not just financially, but how the game is played.
Actually there is a fascinating problem embedded in there: can you maintain the aspects of football that make it fun, interesting and engaging, while losing the aspects that make it inherently dangerous for the players? I've seen arguments that what makes football so interesting is the sheer complexity of it -- 22 guys, all moving around, over a large field. (This accompanied a claim that football programs have higher graduation rates than basketball, because there is a minimum level of mental ability for football that is just higher.) If that's true, you ought to be able to capture the pace and complexity without the head injuries. How much of the engaging nature of American football is cultural? I mean soccer is the most wildly popular sport in the world, and, seriously, what is wrong with people?!? Watching soccer is about as interesting as watching bowling, or golf. Or watching me pack my dishwasher. (My idea for soccer -- have everybody run random sprints around the field for an hour, then all stand around in a circle and flip a coin to see who is going to get the win. All the spectators could stay inside until the coin toss. It would have the same relationship between play and score that most soccer games have.)
jimmyk

The credit is larger this year than it will be next year, but there is no recapture if you use it now.

Walter or OL (or anyone else), do you know the answer to my question about what happens in this scenario: Say you have $6M and you distribute $4M now. On Jan 1 the exemption goes down to $1M. You get hit by a bus. Is your exemption $1M, zero, or something else?

NK

JamesD-- yes they did. but remember, the muddle were bought off and insulated by BOTH parties when the payroll tax vaca and Bush Rates were extended all through 2012 -- let the payroll tax kick back in, let the income tax rates go back up take home pay drops immediately, I don't care what BS Geithner does, and then let Obamacare do its worst to premium costs and watch the recession start. Let the muddle FEEL it; then we'll see if they want government takeover.

Old Lurker

You are not the first to think about that, Gmax.

Google "Asset Protection, Nevis, Cook Islands".

Unless you are willing to lie on your 1040 it does not work for a US taxpayer and is moderately expensive to set up and to administer.

You have to lie on two lines in the 1040: "list all off shore bank accounts in which you have any beneficial interest", and "Report all income earned anywhere in the world".

Sorry.

Though I do call your attention to the line I cited in the Declaration of Independance about having the right and the duty to throw off the control of tyrants.

Old Lurker

I think you are then out of further exclusion amount but there is no clawback on the $4 you used. But you lost the rest. So I think the answer is zero.

Now if you got hit by that bus before midnight on New Years Eve you still have $1.2M remaining so make sure they pull the plug before midnight.

Old Lurker

that was for Jimmy

NK

CathyF-- I actually watch televised soccer 5-7 days/week (sometimes only a few minutes at a time), but I only watch NFL football during playoffs, and college conference championships and bowl games.I never played soccer but I did play 7 years of HS and Div III college football. At this point I find watching American football boring except during playoff time. What happens if you take violent 'big hits' out of the game -- and it was strictly a game of tactics and skill? My guess is it would be like playing poker without gambling. It would be a useless game, more boring than rugby or cricket. I think the NFL agrees, because they are fighting the concussion lawsuits tooth and nail, and looking for technical solutions to head/brain injuries.

Captain Hate

can you maintain the aspects of football that make it fun, interesting and engaging, while losing the aspects that make it inherently dangerous for the players?

When you started having 300+ pounders with lightning quick speed, the immediate concern was for knees because there's no way to strengthen them in the same manner as it was to increase muscle mass, which made them more vulnerable. I'm convinced that the concussion risk was overlooked at the time and is now coming to the fore because knee/tendon injuries have become easier to repair through improvements in sports medicine/surgery. There's no repair for having your mental eggs scrambled multiple times. And the increased mass moving more rapidly will scramble them.

NK

CaptH-- Player size/speed Head injuries--I think that's right. The NHL has a similar problem. You're a big NFL fan, do you see the game as we know it at risk because of the head injury/liability issue?

Captain Hate

Yes NK; I think the sport is in big trouble for the future for that reason. And I don't know what the answer is but I know that it isn't increasing the length of the season.

cathyf

Well one thing that nobody wants to talk about is that it's not really known how much of the brain scrambling comes from the concussions, and how much is side effects of the steroids.

Jane:  Mock the Media

Congress can do nothing if the GOP declines to go along. These bastards own this thing, let 'em stew in their own juice until they're ready to talk repeal.

Seems that would require they grow a pair. I won't hold my breath.

I think it is hysterical that the communist Fauxahontis signed the letter.

NK

CaptH-- sorry to hear you agree with that, as I don't follow football closely, I was hoping I was missing something. To me the biggest problem for the NFL is the fact that the enemies of football will work their way up. They'll use tragic cases in Youth/HS/College football for litigation against teams and manufacturers designed to maket the currrent game economically untenable. Only then will they go after the toughest nut the NFL. But if football has changed at the youth and college level-- where would the NFL be?

Jack is Back

The answer is Rugby - no pads an no blocking. Scrum helmets but they are mostly just leather skull caps. No more bloated 300+ pounders since they have to constantly be moving both laterally and north-south. [Although I would like to see Vince Wolfork play for 45 minutes straight with no time outs or huddles:}

Speed, ball handling and lots of kicking remain. Plus drinking and singing are part of the game. I have always liked the idea of both a "sin bin" and a "blood bin" for professional fouls and perhaps that is what he NFL should consider. Every time Suh makes a bone-headed intentional foul, don't just march off 15 yards but suspend him for the rest of the possession.

But it won't catch on here because there is no forward pass and big plays. Only 30 guys trying to beat the crap out of each other by moving a leather ball one inch at a time. Plus you don't see many concussions although the hooker and props are knocking heads in the scrum. Most injuries in Rugby are not career threatening.

It has a lot going for itself except American acceptance and a TV deal:)

NK

Fauxchontas and Obamacare partial repeal-- don't you know, the middle class are HAMMERED by parts of Obamacare.

GMax

"Report all income earned anywhere in the world".

Sorry.

The filer would have no income. A separate and distinct tax paying entity, a new BVI corp would have income.

You are correct that you have to disclose bank account you have outside of the country. So what, so does Google. My structure is pretty much what Google is doing today and paying very low taxes.

NK

JiB-- all due respect to your English sporting heritage, but I fing Rugby a crushing bore. BBC America showed a number of World Cup games earlier this year-- nah-- I watched, but never found it to be a great spectacle. Real repetitive play, and kicks now dominate the scoring at that level.

Captain Hate

NK and JiB, the dark secret about football is that it's a brutally violent game which produces the shortest careers and lowest career earnings of the major professional sports. But people willfully play it because it's what a lot of people like to do. Knowing all of this makes it a mixed bag, of course; and I really admire people like Kurt Warner who know when it's time to leave the game on his terms.

MarkO

For several decades, I have had a close acquaintance with sports litigation, rule making, risk assessment and policy. Were football not a hoary artifact no high school or college would sanction it because of the cost and inherent dangers.
Pro football might survive this awareness of the dangers, but one large judgment against a school or school district will put an end to high school football. It is something of major concern to many school policy makers and risk managers.

It can't last.

NK

MarkO-- jeez, football's future is worse than I thought.

Jack is Back

CH and NK,

First I had my tongue firmly planted in my cheek when I wrote the Rugby bit. But I love test Rugby and have been to 3 world cups.

My old associate (who is a U of Michigan engineering grad and also in the NFL HoF) use to tell me that "the NFL [Owners] paid us a lot of money not to grow up". The Owners and the NFL will not change until something Black Swan like occurs. Something rule bending and ultra-dramatic to the bottom line - big time class action lawsuit by ex-players and/or families? Over injuries and concussions? Who knows but I believe you need to tweak the rules a little bit more and invest heavily in bio-mechanical technology (helmets, equipment and devices that can prevent or lessen these injuries.

I don't know about you but when Chuck Bendarnick and Ray Nitzsche and Sam Huff played I didn't see a lot of helmet to helmet hits like today. And those guys were playing without face guards. They knew how to tackle and make bone jarring hits (ask Frank Gifford). I remember watching Ken Houston of the Skins playing safety and using his strength and skill to keep Walt Garrison out of the end zone in one of the classic Cowboy games. Today, you'd have Ed Reed out there doing the same play by using his helmet on the guys chin.

rse

I feel like a bad Mom. I am thinking Red will be home next Wednesday and she will be home this Saturday. Turns out all her finals are early and then she is done.

Unfortunately little sis the Diva had taken up sleeping in Red's room. Apparently I need to arrange to be out of the house shortly after Red gets home.

Frau Steingehirn

I've been wallowing in all things Nockian and wonder if JOM is part of the Remnant.
LUN

(cathyf needs to be cloned)

Back to the future with Bronko Nagurski?

Thomas Collins

The current unified estate and gift tax credit yields a 2012 exemption amount of $5,120,000. The exclusion is $13,000. So, for example, if Jane gives me $13,000 in 2012, it doesn't eat into her exemption. Now, let's say Jane hasn't used any of her exemption in prior years. Jane may give me an additional $5,120,000 in 2012 without paying a gift tax, although she'll be required to file a gift tax return.

And now for the usual caveat that this is for general info purposes only, and anyone who makes estate and gift planning decisions on the basis of blog posts or authoritative statements from friends is asking for trouble. Consult an estate planner in whom you have confidence.

glasater

Gmax-

So how much income are you generating outside the US?

daddy

Good Morning!

Late tonight will be the best viewing of The Geminid Meteor Shower

Apparently all you have to do is get away from city lights, look straight up, and search for the meteors which clobber us at a rate of 50 to 150 per hour.

I'm off to Memphis tonight so hopefully they'll be some good viewing. Just for interest, doing a search for the likelihood of a meteor striking an airplane in the air, this Science blog gives 2 different estimates on the back of their cocktail napkins:

1) 1 in a Billion

2) 4.3% chance of a meteor strike on at least one airliner in the next 20 years.

I think I hope the first guy is right, but we probably need Chaco or DrJ to run the numbers and 'splain it to us. On a Salt Lake to Boise nighttime run about 20 years back saw a humongous meteor explosion off our nose at what looked like co-altitude, that made us all go "Holy Smokers", but other than that nothing of any consequence.

And a google search shows a few instances of people on the ground getting hit by meteors and surviving.

Jane:  Mock the Media

Geez TC, I was hoping one of the bigwigs upthread was going to put me on the "I must get rid of this money now" list.

Danube of Thought on IPad

"Something rule bending and ultra-dramatic to the bottom line - big time class action lawsuit by ex-players and/or families? Over injuries and concussions?"

I think such an action is already pending, with 3,500 plaintiffs.

In 2008 they had a 50th anniversary feature of the "greatest game ever played," the 1958 NFL title game between the Colts and Giants. I had watched the game with my father and brother. Seeing it now, it was almost quaint: tackles were made the old-fashioned way, by driving into the ballcarrier with your shoulder and wrapping him up with your arms. Nowadays most tackles in the open field are made by simply knocking the guy down. Players launch themselves like projectiles.

NK

JiB- darn it-- I thought you were seriously going all Cross of St George on us by pushing Rugby rules. Like MarkO said, i think the big threat to football comes at the lower levels which are more vulnerable to litigation brought by the football haters.

In other news-- Johnny Depp moves from France to -- Tennessee. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the 75% tax rate in France these days: http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/celebrities/free/20121207johnny-depp-buys-m-home.html

Thomas Collins

That's what I was figuring, Jane. OL and DOT and GMAX would each give you $5,133,000, and you would share one third of your $15,399,000 bounty with me!

rse

Just as long as Depp is not moving near Monteagle. They already have some bourbon heir throwing spectacular pre-game parties that start about 10 in the morning.

rse

Ah, Nashville. That is a hot housing market from what I have heard. Two different friends have moved there from ATL and were shocked it was a more expensive market.

Old Lurker

Gmax....but I assume that that separate distinct offshore corp would be owned by you, right? You will find that that attribution sucks you into both statements about having a beneficiary interest in an offshore bank account and also having earnings over there. The problem is you are an individual with all US income (but for the fiction about sending interest offshore), where Google is a corp with substantial income earned offshore that it elects to leave offshore and thus not taxed in the US.

Now if you truly borrow money from an unrelated company offshore then that interest goes to them and you do get the deduction. But that is true if you borrow from the bank down the street too. So it only works if in effect you can lend yourself your own money and then deduct the income as an expense but not report the income at the other end. And that is exactly the hole now plugged.

Until recently you could set up an offshore bank account in the name of a company that you might have owned 100% but the foreign bank would not have asked, wink, wink. Now the US Treasury has extensive rights to force those foreign banks to cough up that sort of ownership information and has real teeth to force that.

Which is why a number of Swiss banks now refuse to open accounts for US Citizens or for companies closely held by them. The reporting requirements are just too demanding for the banks.

And as someone pointed out above, the cost of getting caught takes all the cash in the accounts and then some. Not to mention jail time.

Jack is Back

NK,

Johnny Depp isn't rich enough to afford France:)

Gerard DePradieu has already moved to Belgium and another famous French celebrity (forgot his name) is moving to Switzerland. According to my S-I-L there is some nervousness that France may lose its fashion industry and that London will become the fashion capital of the world.

BTW, I am watching London Wasps playing Bayonne (France) in Amblin Cup Rugby. The ref just sent Scott Sedding, Bayonne's fullback off to the Sin Bin for flip tackling a defenseless player who had jumped in the air to handle a Gerry-Owen punt. Gets a penalty kick out of it and lose a player. Good rule. How would any team in the NFL like it if they had to play 11 against 10 for a period of time because of a professional foul like helmet to helmet or hitting a defenseless player? Might cut down on those kind of hits.

Old Lurker

sorry again. "deduct the INTEREST and not report the income"

hit and run

Thank you to all who have emailed me in response to my offer above at 11:56. Due to the number of responses, it is with regret that I must announce I will be unable to fulfill further requests.

In lieu of that, I am happy to provide my considered recommendation from among the other JOMers who have made a similar offer subsequent to mine. Feel free to contact me should that be of interest to you.

Thomas Collins

Your 11:56 AM post, H&R, reminds me of clients who want to spend real money they otherwise wouldn't to lower taxes. I try to convince them that as long as rates are below 100%, that's not a good idea. Not that anyone wouldn't want to shower you with $5,000,000 plus in cash notwithstanding the impact on taxes!

Old Lurker

And this from WaPo just now "The White House and the nation’s most prominent charities are embroiled in a tense, behind-the-scenes debate over President Obama’s push to scale back the nearly century-old tax deduction on donations that the charities say is crucial for their financial health."

One thing that did come from my tax meetings was the obvious: pay all out year pledges in full this year and avoid making any new pledges if and until the tax treatment of future charitable gifts is clear.

I did that yesterday and learned from the recipients that many big gifts were being prepaid by others to get them onto this year's returns. Good luck getting new pledges I say.

NK

JiB-- actually no one earning income can afford France-- 75% rate-- even Lefty actor Will Smith thought that was nuts.
Depp publicly called the 75% rate government extortion and decamped to no income tax Nashville. Careful with the French tax refugees moving to Britain meme-- James Blunt -- true blue Brit, (and proud British Army vet) is moving to Monaco (I believe) to avoid Brit tax rates. Anyways, I love to hear Rugby talk "a hooligan's game played by gentlemen..." keep it up.

Clarice

I'm still lost on the bat and ball question. Good thing my husband is the accountant and tax lawyer in the family.

Cathy, Business insider says the answer is 20 cents./

Friends who've deeded their house over to their kids say if there are big reverses and they need it their kids will hand it back. I don't think they ae thinking of litigation losses or creditor claims their kids might get into.

Better to just let sme charitable sould like Buffett or Gates pere adopt them.


narciso

OT, Ewok really thinks he is wiser then Steyn, that's not true by a country mile;

http://minx.cc/?post=335650

We know this administration is incapable of getting this right, and the likes of Carney, indicate they don't care a whit

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