Know When To Fold 'Em

J Pod explains why the Republicans have no cards to play as we race towards the fiscal cliff.

OTOH, Minority Whip Steny Hoyer says that entitements should be on the table, which is something. And Obama told Bloomberg Television that he wanted higher rates on "the rich", but did not insist on the Clinton-era rates:

“We have the potential of getting a deal done,” Obama said in the Bloomberg interview. “We’re going to have to see the rates on the top 2 percent go up, and we’re not going to be able to get a deal without it.”

...

Even as he insisted on higher tax rates, Obama left room for compromise with Republicans in end-game talks.

He sidestepped a question about whether he would accept a measure that increased the top rate from 35 percent to 37 percent or 38 percent -- short of the 39.6 percent marginal rate when the current levels went into effect. Obama didn’t flatly rule out entitlement cuts, including changing the annual cost- of-living adjustment for Medicare, the government health-care program for the elderly and disabled.

Finally, and this is deep in the FWIW file, the stock market is surprisingly bouyant with the cdeath of the US economy less than for weeks away (DJIA 13,070; SPX 1414); even more baffling, the VIX volatility index (16.41%) is nowhere near the levels reached during earlier dramas such as the Greek/Italian/Spanish swoon of the summer of 2011.

Comments

[narciso]

What a pathetic little whelp, the Tad pod has become, Brooksism seems to occur by osmosis,
they did both go to U of Chicago,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--J Pod explains why the Republicans have no cards to play as we race towards the fiscal cliff.--

If the Republicans were dealt a flush they'd discard three trying to draw an inside straight.

[Melinda Romanoff]

VIX spreads are very, very wonky. Two fron months are compressed, but everything else prices like a disaster in the pipeline.

[lyle]

C'mon, GOP. Take just a tiny hit off that tax hike crack pipe Zero's handing to you. It's only one hit. Not like you'd get addicted or anything. That first hit will make the screwing you're getting hurt a little less...until the effect wears off.

[narciso]

Why are we surprised after what has transpired before;

http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=45784#comments

[narciso]

Wait wasn't he an advisor to Romney;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/12/sadly-i-was-wrong-about-obama-isnt-good-enough/

[Melinda Romanoff]

How to steal fracking benefits for dummies.

[matt]

So let me get this straight. Obama wants a massive tax hike? he wants to increase the debt ceiling to infinity? He wants another massive stimulus package? He does not want to cut spending in any way shape or form that can be detected when the uncontrolled debt monster is one of the prime concerns of most Americans?

And the Republicans are on the defensive? Or they just on crack?

[Frau Steingehirn]

From narciso's 4:08 link which quotes Harvard economist Mankiw-

To be it another way, he (Pres.Jive Ass) campaigned as a moderate, willing to concede that the other party had some good ideas on tax policy. Once in office, he gave up on those ideas.

A similar thing happened with Bowles-Simpson. During his first term, he (Pres. Candyman) appointed a bipartisan panel, which concluded we could address our long-term fiscal problem with lower tax rates and a broader tax base. Now, the President goes around the country lambasting that approach.

As dumb as a rock as a Harvard academic.

[Soylent Red]

Here's a good way to play the hand: fold.

Give these bastards everything they want, vote present, and let America see what they voted for.

[Frau Steingehirn]

Soylent - works for me.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Greece just cut to Selective Default by S&P.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Welcome to our camp, Soylent. Ya got to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Sorry, TM. I forgot that was in your post title. Heh.

[Dave (in MA)]

Fauxcahontas owe many wampum despite raising most ever.

[Old Lurker]

You both are right to use the phrase Jim.

[Spending cuts first!--jimmyk]

Give these bastards everything they want, vote present, and let America see what they voted for.

The only problem with that is that we will be destroying the country to make a point. (Cue Cleavon Little in "Blazing Saddles.") It's not as though the damage will be easy to undo even if the muddle wakes up and realizes who the real perps are, which is debatable.

Getting caught up: Congrats to DrJ!

[Janet - Why does Johnny Depp hate the poor? pourquoi?]

The Republicans...

[Soylent Red]

Unfortunately, this is not what will happen. The Republican leadership is lashed to the false idea of bipartisan deal making and spinning failure as success. I would like to believe it is from principled naivete, but I know that it is really about preservation of their comfortable positions as Washington insiders. They are going to sell us out and tell us it was the best they could do, and they'll do better next time.

Of course November 6 was the last day of the age of politics. We now live in an era where the only profitable action is to figure out how each of us will live with the new reality, or withdraw from it.

[rse]

Let it burn indeed.

People need to begin to appreciate just how many politicians and govt paid employees (includes businesses whose only clients are paid by taxpayers) at all levels function as saboteurs of everything that creates tax revenue in the first place.

Most days reading these graphic plans doesn't hit me but today's could be called Brainwashing 1010 and you can't stop us.

Let it burn now or there won't be anything functional left within the decade.

[Spending cuts first!--jimmyk]

More concretely: I cannot believe that with the Republican offer out there, which to my mind is a complete cave-in, if Barry says no and we go over the cliff, the voters will blame the Republicans. The MSM will, of course, but how is an offer with an $800B tax increase something that the JEF can get away with thumbing his nose at and sending us over the cliff? I don't pretend the voters are smart, but this just won't pass the smell test.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

One of my favorite pics, Janet. I am particularly partial to the cigar smoking, card cheating bulldog. He reminds me of my 8 yr old EBD Buster, who is now quietly snoring on the couch.

[bunkerbuster]

``the stock market is surprisingly bouyant with the death of the US economy less than four weeks away''
Didn't you all predict the death of the U.S. economy in Obama's first term? Having invested thusly in haste, I can only assume you're now repenting at leisure.
And while DoT is Trumplike in his clownish wealth boasts, it's a good bet that he too has cut his own hair...

[lyle]

quietly snoring

How does one actually do this? My wife would quite interested to know how this can be done.

[narciso]

Yes, we're in the hands of top men;

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/04/purged-conservative-reps-boehner-planning-to-run-over-conservatives-vote-for-tax-hike/#ixzz2EDUBKKpe

[lyle]

Predicted the death of the economy in Zero's first term? Not me. I just predicted the economy to contract a fatal illness with near death-like symptoms. I win.

[Soylent Red]

jimmyk:

Not to be a contrarian, but it will absolutely pass the smell test. In four years the Democrat Marketing and Corruption juggernaut will tell the public what it believes, and how to vote on that belief, and they will do it.

With $86T in debt and liability, growing at about $5T a year (it was $65T in 2009), people are still only concerned with making sure they get theirs and somebody else pays for it. That is not a system that can be preserved. That is a system that must collapse and be rebuilt.

The apparently unlearned lesson of the election is that facts and reality don't matter. We're talking about members of the Meghan McCain wing of the Republican Party having a difficult conversation with the American people that the Party is not intellectually or morally capable of explaining, and that the Dems will actively undermine with More Free Shit and an alternate reality promoted in every MSM outlet.

Fuggit. Let it burn.

[Clarice]

So--My favorite Husker shows up well after wisconsin wiped his team off the field. XOXOXO, Soylent.

I'm following Taubes and the weight's pouring off.

[Soylent Red]

Happy belated birthday Clarice.

Wisconsin still sucks, despite what the scoreboard might say, and Biel-enema looks like Hugo Chavez.

[Frau Steingehirn]

Does McAuliffe really think Virginians want a crook for governor?
Wiki:

In a 2009 interview former Presidential Candidate Ralph Nader alleged that McAuliffe offered him money to withdraw from certain pivotal states in the 2004 election. According to Nader, McAuliffe “basically said that if I stay out of 19 states which are close between Kerry and Bush, he would provide resources to me in the remaining 31 states.” [43]At the time McAuliffe was head of the Democratic National Committee. Nader went on to say, "“He threatens, he promises, he cajoles, he jokes, he charms, he intimidates. He really is not someone who should be governor and in possession of the public’s trust.” McAuliffe's staff denied the accusations, and acknowledged that Chariman McAuliffe "was concerned that Ralph Nader would cost John Kerry the election as he did Al Gore in 2000 and give us another four years of George W. Bush."

then there's McAuliffe's history with union money...

[bunkerbuster]

Lyle confesses: ``I just predicted the economy to contract a fatal illness with near death-like symptoms. I win.''
Presumably, then, you bet against the stock market, so no Lyle, you lose. But I'm thinking you had nothing left to invest in the first place, having gone long on the Bush tax cuts.

[lyle]

Biel-enema looks like Hugo Chavez

Golf clap for "Biel-enema." He's going to need some intestinal fortitude in his new neighborhood.

[NK]

Uhhh... the US economy has died. No GDP growth, jobs market millions of jobs less than 2006, gas and food inflation skyrocketing, real incomes down, government debt and spending out of control. Yep-- the US economy is indeed dead-- like Monty Python's Dead Parrot.

Pissin' in the wind by cursing at Repubs. An understandable, but truly futile act. Millions of sub-$250K voters who SHOULD have voter for romney didn't. OK they were wrong, but the simple truth is protecting $250K taxpayers is not a winning electoral plan-- we just saw that. So agree to rate adjustments conditioned on spending cuts- Bam will say no, then say everyone's rates go up. Bam will either relent or drive off of the cliff. Either way he owns the lousy economy. The voters either correct themselves in 2014, or they continue to suffer. I'm amvivalent at this point, I'm set up to deal with contingencies. The voters are not-- I'm fine letting them feel more pain until they learn.

[Neo]

Ironically the new taxes will have relatively little effect on the detested Romney uber-class, who derive most of their income from capital gains, taxed at a much lower rate. They also have access to all manner of offshore dodges. Nor will it have much impact on Silicon Valley millionaires and billionaires, or the Hollywood moguls and urban land speculators who constitute the Democratic Party’s “good rich,” and enjoy many of the same privileges as their wealthy conservative counterparts.

The people whose wallets will be drained in the new war on “the rich” are high-earning, but hardly plutocratic professionals like engineers, doctors, lawyers, small business owners and the like. Once seen as the bastion of the middle class, and exemplars of upward mobility, these people are emerging as the modern day “kulaks,” the affluent peasants ruthlessly targeted by Stalin in the early 1930s.

... there is nothing ironic here .. it's by design.

[Clarice]

Oh, the bitter sniping of a losing team's backer...

[lyle]

The only thing holding up the stock market, buttbuster, is the algos and the institutions aided and abetted by the world's biggest currency manipulator, Big Ben. If you think that's a sign of a health economy, I'd suggest you're an imbecile. But your infantile droolings around here are already proof of that.

[Soylent Red]

Oh the unseemly gloating of a 5-loss, got lucky once, will get crushed by some PAC-10 surfers in Pasadena, team's backer...

I have spent the majority of my life harboring grudges over 30-year old football games. I have lots of additional room on my permanent shit list for dumbluck Wiscy.

[Extraneus]

Back by popular demand...

Click for full size.

[narciso]

'the Meghan McCain wing,' you're going to need the helicarrier's turbines to keep that aloft,
We should take a lesson from when the Democrats lost the second consecutive election, by about the same margin, that Romney did, they purged their most fervent supporters, went along with Bush's social security reforms, and signed on to supporting our troops in Iraq, no, then like with Rick Blaine 'about the springs in Casablanca' I must have been mistaken,

[Spending cuts first!--jimmyk]

But I'm thinking you had nothing left to invest in the first place, having gone long on the Bush tax cuts.

The market did fine until 2007 when the Dems took over Congress. Under Barry and the Dems great stewardship the market still is far below the peak of 2007. And that's the best data bubu can cherry-pick.

[lyle]

And how does one "go long" tax cuts anyway, buttboy?

Just another innumerate prog loser spouting bullshit.

[centralcal]

Earlier today, I thought I read on Twitter that Boehner was going to keep the House "open" which would interfere with Barry and Mooch's Hawaii vacation departures again (which really means taxpayers foot the bill for two planes - one for her and one for him).

Now, I see that this afternoon Barry and Johnny (Boehner) had another phone chat.

Oh, and Donald Trump thinks Anna Wintour is just a splendid choice for Ambassador (but not to Libya, I suppose).

[Old Lurker]

Jimmy & Soy...I am not sure there is much difference between Boehner's signals today and everything Obama wants.

Yes I know that is not exactly right...Obama wants $1.6T more tax and Boehner offers half that in his open (the rate vs loopholes is meaningless if the money comes from 2% in either case). Obama wants more spending to be sure, but then again Obama has never had a budget imposed in four years so, so what? And Obama wants no pesky debt ceilings but McConnell offers "OK unless we can get both houses to object".

So yes there is a difference on paper but not in reality...and we are toast either way.

Assuming we go along in the direction we are going, then the one thing for sure is we have shown (As W did with his spending and entitlements) that there really is not much difference between the parties.

And we get blamed either way now and in the future no matter what.

[lyle]

Oh the unseemly gloating of a 5-loss, got lucky once, will get crushed by some PAC-10 surfers in Pasadena

I don't think they're playing any surfer team this year. Garishly ugly uniforms, yes. Surfers, not really.

[Appalled]

Funny, I came to pretty much the same conclusion as JPod over at my own blog today. The GOP has a bad hand, Boehner will cave on rates, because it's obvious he has the choice of seeing taxes going up on the 100% or just the 2%. And, because he isn't getting the caving over with quickly, it will be painfully obvious he caved.

Also, at the blog, I express my love for Harry Reid.

[narciso]

No, Appalled, they voted for this, they get the whole enchilada, did you take into account Coffman's actual votes, in your followup;

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/12/04/my-petraeus-interview-firestorm-silly-off-base/

[Soylent Red]

Surfers, not really.

I really haven't devoted the research time into figuring out the best way to disparage Stanford, but to people from Nebraska, everyone from California is a surfer. Or a hippie. Or both.

[narciso]

Yes, this is exactly the way the Democrats behaved, they removed Rangel, Conyers, et al

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/05/Club-for-Growth-to-Boehner-Release-the-secret-criteria-list-used-in-purge?utm_source=BreitbartNews&utm_medium=facebook

[Clarice]

Here's Boehner's statement..See if it gets one-tenth of the coverage Reid's brain farts get:http://www.speaker.gov/general/new-york-times-abc-news-expose-president-obama-debunking-his-own-false-claims-tax-reform

___

Dumbluck, Soylent? Heck, I thought Howard was watching the Packers.

[Extraneus]

I estimate that if we had a few more dumb lefty trolls, this place would be 80% full of responses to them, since each of their droppings would be met with multiple responses.

Personally, I'd rather see more constructive responses to Jane's secession proposals.

[narciso]

Ouch, well here in Miami, we're accustomed to dissapointment, that last game, wasn't so bad, sarc.

[Soylent Red]

Heck, I thought Howard was watching the Packers.

Enjoy your victory, but you Badgers should be aware that that Huskers are worse than Pashtuns when it comes to grudges...

100 years we will remember this.

[Clarice]

Heh, Soylent. When are you getting back here so we can discuss it face to face like men.

[Clarice]

Congressman Allen West
Today President Obama told the Pentagon to prepare for sequestration cuts. Just about a month ago, the same President Obama stated in the final debate at Lynn University emphatically that sequestration would not happen. While the administration's hypocrisy may be laughable, the voters may find the joke is on them. The new standard for American leadership is evident: say anything and never be held responsible, or accountable.

[narciso]

Rush, did point that little curious coincidence,
about the 2011 budget deal, today.

[narciso]

Ah, here it is,

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/12/05/obama-republicans-revenue-math-doesnt-work-except-for-when-it-did/

[centralcal]

Looks like Pelosi's scheme to use a Discharge Petition won't get the votes it needs (even on her own side):

Chad Pergram ‏@ChadPergram

178 House D’s sign discharge petition on middle class tax cuts. D's have 191 mbrs. No R signatures. Need 218. Won't get all 191 D's.

[Spending cuts first!--jimmyk]

Personally, I'd rather see more constructive responses to Jane's secession proposals.

So is it "secession" if, say, 42 states secede and 8 blue hells (NY, CA, MA, RI, DE, MD, DC, VT) remain, or is it "expulsion," more akin to the EU tossing out Greece and Portugal? All a matter of perspective. The 42 could just keep the US Constitution word for word, maybe with an extra amendment saying "Everything in this Constitution means what it says, no more, no less." Or perhaps a few of the peskier amendments like the 19th could be eliminated. :)

[pagar]

Folding them:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-05/bombshell-deutsche-bank-hid-12-billion-losses-avoid-government-bail-out

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-05/aapl-suffers-biggest-market-cap-loss-ever

Odds that tomorrow will be better-None.

[lyle]

Oops. My bad. Stanford not the Ducks v. the Badgers in the Rose.

[Extraneus]

No, Appalled, they voted for this, they get the whole enchilada

That inspires an answer to the dilemma.

Based on exit polls, calculate the election results for each income range in the tax tables. Then, pass a bill in the House that rescinds the tax cuts for those ranges that voted for Obama, preserving the cuts for all income ranges that didn't. If any income ranges weren't covered by tax cuts, include tax increases for those in ranges that voted for Obama.

This is a fair way to do it, and might result in significant new revenue.

"We understand that some voters have given the president a mandate to raise tax rates, and the wishes of those voters should be respected by their government."

[Clarice]

What a surprise. Days after the slaughter in Benghazi, Iowahawk said if was a Middle Eastern version of Fast and Furious.http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world/africa/weapons-sent-to-libyan-rebels-with-us-approval-fell-into-islamist-hands.html?hp&_r=0

[Captain Hate]

Boehner should take note of Clarice's 6:01 because that's what an opposition party leader should be pointing out. When I criticize Boehner it doesn't mean that I think that he's a bad person; just that he isn't well placed in a leadership role. It's not a job for just anybody and using seniority is a piss poor way of assigning it.

[narciso]

That was brilliant,Captain Tupolev salutes from the Laurentian abyss,

[Extraneus]

So is it "secession" if, say, 42 states secede and 8 blue hells (NY, CA, MA, RI, DE, MD, DC, VT) remain, or is it "expulsion," more akin to the EU tossing out Greece and Portugal?

Now that's constructive.

[Captain Hate]

Oregon vs Kansas State is the only non-championship BCS game I'm at all interested in.

[Clarice]

Make west head of the RNC.

[Spending cuts first!--jimmyk]

Guess I need another blue hell in my 6:19. Let's say CT. Sorry TM and NK.

[Soylent Red]

jimmyk:

The first rule of Secession Club is, "Don't talk about Secession Club. Especially online."

I'm more in favor of a tenth amendment showdown. Although it will afford me less opportunity to shoot hipster d-bags and Occutards in the face, it's probably better to simply re-establish Original Intent, than to re-establish the country.

A close second is to move to someplace warm and sunny and watch the worthless denizens of the blue hells starve to death on satellite TV while drinking rum.

[Janet - Why does Johnny Depp hate the poor? pourquoi?]

or Illinois

[narciso]

I've always thought Doha was the dog that didn't bark, in this affair, that's why my attention has been on Bel Hadj, sort of their emir,

[Extraneus]

Why spare PA? CA is big enough, but the expelled north easterners should have a large enough contiguous area for it to be considered fair.

[Soylent Red]

but the expelled north easterners should have a large enough contiguous area for it to be considered fair.

Just not large enough that we can't nuke it out of existence. For the children.

[Jim Miller]

DrJ- Congratulations, and I hope all goes well.

[bunkerbuster]

More evidence the private sector eschews Republican math
from WSJ:
At least $8 billion worth of high-grade corporate bonds are expected to price Tuesday, as a dozen companies take advantage of strong demand and low borrowing costs.

Swiss pharmaceutical company Novartis AG (NVS) is leading the way with $2 billion worth of 10- and 30-year bonds, marking its first foray into the U.S. markets since it sold $5 billion worth in March 2010. Tuesday's proceeds are for general purposes, including to refinance short- and long-term debt.

First-time issuer FMC Technologies (FTI) is selling $800 million in a two-part deal, while Harley-Davidson Inc. (HOG) and oil-and-gas group Total SA (TOT) are each selling at least $500 million of three-year notes.

Four of the 12 companies looking to sell bonds today haven't said how big the deals will be, as banks arranging the issues are still gauging investor demand.

The climate is favorable for borrowers; Average yields are just 2.91%, or 0.02 percentage point from the record low as measured by the Barclays U.S. corporate investment-grade index, which goes back four decades. Spreads to Treasurys--the extra yield corporate bonds offer over comparable Treasury bonds--hit a new 13-month low of 1.56 points on Monday.

Meanwhile, investor demand is robust following moves by the European Central Bank and U.S. Federal Reserve to buy bonds, sending prices higher and yields lower on most kinds of riskier fixed-income assets.

Last week's inflow of cash into high-grade corporate bonds totaled $2.4 billion, or double the 2012 weekly average, according to RBS Securities on Monday.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120918-709072.html

[Jim Miller]

Open letter to Patty Murray:

Some of you will find this letter of interest.

(No, I don't expect to get a real reply, especially to my third question, but I do hope to get others to keep asking her those questions.)

Feel free, by the way, to send the same letter, just changing the name, to your own congress critters.

[Extraneus]

or Illinois

Here's a historic Civil War era flag with 34 stars, so Oregon, Washington and Hawaii should probably be considered, too.

I'd have to quit my job and move, but it would be a small price to pay to live in a 34-state country conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

[Spending cuts first!--jimmyk]

Make west head of the RNC.

That's such a fabulous idea that it will never happen. Wouldn't be prudent....

(p.s. anyone else having trouble with typepad not letting them post? I keep having to shut down Firefox and restart.)

[Spending cuts first!--jimmyk]

Why spare PA? CA is big enough, but the expelled north easterners should have a large enough contiguous area for it to be considered fair.

PA is kind of a microcosm of the US, with blue hells on either end and a lot of bitter clingers in the middle. I'm willing to keep the battleground states. Illinois can certainly go, though.

And why do the blue hells deserve fairness?

[Janet - Why does Johnny Depp hate the poor? pourquoi?]

This might be a repeat post -
OT -
Here is a lovely version of Eyes On The Prize sung by Sara Groves with Steve Mason of Jars of Clay.

I bought the album version but always liked the acoustic version better. Anyway, I found you can get it free at Noisetrade....a 4 song EP.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--At least $8 billion worth of high-grade corporate bonds are expected to price Tuesday, as a dozen companies take advantage of strong demand and low borrowing costs.--

I'm surprised it's not $8 trillion since they never have to pay em back.

[centralcal]

What's become of GMax - haven't seen him on these threads in quite some time?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

If 42 states do secede can I please request an offensive to liberate all of the non coastal CA counties from the cretins by the sea?

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"Didn't you all predict the death of the U.S. economy in Obama's first term? "

No. I confidently predicted sluggish GDP growth, trillion-dollar deficits and continued high unemployment.

"Having invested thusly in haste, I can only assume you're now repenting at leisure."

Wrong yet again. Two years after Clinton's tax increases, I cocluded that I didn't want to work for 50-cent dollars, so I moved to Coronado and haven't worked a single day since. I had invested a great deal in several KKR funds within my 401(k), which paid off obscenely eell. When the Bush tax cuts went into effect I began an aggressive program of withdrawing from my qualified accounts, paying the Bush rates, and parking the rremainder in a very conservative and diversified portfolio designed for preservation of capital. I expect to live another ten years or so and to leave my wife very comfortably off.

I hot mine, bubu. Now you get yours.

[Extraneus]

The Blue-State Suicide Pact

Any move to raise taxes on the rich — defined as households making over $250,000 annually — strikes directly at the economies of these states, which depend heavily on the earnings of high-income professionals, entrepreneurs and technical workers. In fact, when you examine which states, and metropolitan areas, have the highest concentrations of such people, it turns out they are overwhelmingly located in the bluest states and regions.

[centralcal]

I agree, Ignatz - the Central Valley (well, most of it) needs liberating too.

[narciso]

That is the thing, It's like crossing zombified Atlanta in the walking dead, somewhere north of Orlando, now.

[narciso]

In a piece in the Journal, Adelson says he will continue to fund the GOP and other causes, however besides his pro Israeli side, he says (this is the Journal, so caveat emptor) being pro choice, pro stem cell research (it's not differentiated between ESCR, ) pro Dream Act,

[NK]

DoT-- congrats on your wise life planning. Basically a perfect plan-- especially living on Coronado. IMO sluggish growth, trillion dollar annual deficits and high unemployment IS THE DEATH of the US economy 1981-2006. during that 25 year period, the hard work of Boomers peaked and was supported by sound government policy. The Housing Bubble bursting and stupid Repub leadership in the Congress-- coupled with the Iraqi the Insurgency allowed the Dems to BS their way back into power in 2006. The Dem teamates in the Media to this day help keep the Dem BS going. All the wrong policy choices have been made for 6 years with predictable results. The 25 year "Goldilocks" economy has been murdered by the Dems. No growth, and any hope for growth coming from from cheaper energy prices or eliminating overregulation -- those have NO CHANCE. So with no growth and no chance of growth, investors cannibalize any type of return they can get, rather than investing for future growth. It is an ugly thing we are leaving our children: I found this link from ZeroHedge quite astute: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-05/citi-why-qe-isnt-working

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

So is it "secession" if, say, 42 states secede and 8 blue hells (NY, CA, MA, RI, DE, MD, DC, VT) remain, or is it "expulsion,

What we need are a coin toss - east v west. If the reds win the west than people like me trade places with the morons who want a socialist government. They can have it. They can buy my house. I'll find a new job and home out west, and off we go. It's win/win. The left gets to hang out with like minded people and have all those laws they think are so fab and we get to live in a free market area.

Easy peasy.

[narciso]

Which makes him not all that much different that the Koch Bros,

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/12/05/sheldon-adelson-im-basically-a-social-liberal/?mod=WSJBlog

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

P.S.--I cashed out the final KKR fund after Obama so graciously decided to leave the Bush rates in place.

[OldTimer]

Conservatives rising to depose Boehner..

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/05/conservative-group-launches-campaign-to-depose-boehner-from-speakership/

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"More evidence the private sector eschews Republican math"

Of course, the cited article has nothing whatsoever to do with what bubu has described as Republican math, namely that a total debt greater than 100% of GDP places an economy in peril. There are very few mathematicians in any party anywhere who disagree with that propositio. See, e.g., Bill Clinton and Erskine Bowles.

[narciso]

That was great Janet, about Sarah Groves,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

What blockheads like bubu dismiss or don't recognize is that lower growth scenarios cost everyone in the end trillions and trillions of dollars of wealth.
If the economy proves robust enough to continue plugging along slowly without completely tanking under idiotic left wing policies it's all the proof his type needs that everything is hunky dory.
That a few decades of sub par growth amounts to many trillions in lost wealth for all sectors of the economy neither occurs to him nor apparently matters even if it did.

[Extraneus]

Apple's shares swallow biggest loss in four years

Apple is still up 33 percent this year, but is down nearly 24 percent from its record high of $705.07, hit on September 21. The stock slid more than 6.4 percent on Wednesday to close at $538.7923.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

Advice for countries with debt over 100% of GDP, courtesy of thos Republican mathematicians at the International Monetary Fund:

"The IMF offers case studies of many of the high-debt episodes, examining how they got out of their mess. Its key lessons:

"1. Support growth while cutting your debt. Fiscal consolidation (i.e. budget-cutting) doesn’t work well if an economy isn’t growing. 'Structural issues need to be addressed and monetary conditions need to be as supportive as possible,' the fund says. The U.K. in the 1920s kept monetary and fiscal policy too tight, exacerbating its debt problem even after it created a primary surplus (that is, excluding interest payments). Japan in the 1990s needed to overhaul its banking sector before it could control its debt.

"2. Focus on long-term measures, not temporary fixes. Belgium and Canada proved to be more successful than Italy in reducing their debt because they focused on structural reforms to their economy rather than short-lived measures.

"3. Be patient. Deficits were quickly reversed only in post-war periods, the IMF found. 'Widespread fiscal cutbacks, retreat by the private sector, population aging, and the aftermath of the financial crisis mean even countries that follow the guidebook will have to moderate their expectations for reducing debt,' the fund concluded."

The Dems read "support growth" as investing large quantities of taxpayer money and borrowed funds in absurd green-energy projects.

[pagar]

"Conservatives rising to depose Boehner.."

IMO, best news I've heard all day.

[NK]

IG@7:31-- so very true. What is infuriating to me is that no one in the "media" is talking about GDP growth -- or lack thereof since 2007. Our society came to assume that growth is some abstract concept that's always there and always will be -- like it was for 25 years Reagan through Bush 43. NOT TRUE. Bad government policy crushes growth and creates inflation-- history proves that over an over. Weimar Germany, the US 1933-1940, Zimbabwe, the EU 1990-today. Big government is a growth killer, and after it kills growth Big Government sets out to decide who gets the remaining crumbs. It's ugly and obscene and the only winners are the Big government Nomenklatura, the rest of us get crushed. There's word for this-- fascism. Yes, the modern Dems and Media are fascists-- that is the simple truth.