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December 18, 2012

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lyle

or nearly one for every adult.

Hey, I'm over-achieving. I have four and am probably buying a couple more before the end of the year.

Danube of Thought on IPad

It seems to me that there is one vital, fundamental difference between the US and the countries with which we sre unfavorably compared: they had orderly, civil socities before firearms were ever introduced, and it was natural that with their introduction they would be restricted to military and police use.

In this country the armed citizen was essential to the founding of the nation and its expansion across the continent. We grew up as a nation and as a people with armed citizens. Not gonna change.

lyle

We grew up as a nation and as a people with armed citizens. Not gonna change.

Well, that's certainly how I grew up. Never gave it a second thought. Ever.

lyle
Weapons designed expressly to kill human beings, and then modified (wink wink) to meet the federal machine-gun ban, have no legitimate place in American society.

Yep, you read that right. Guns (well, the AR-15, anyway) are "designed expressly kill human beings." Says so right there. But what about zombies?

Silly me, I thought guns were "designed expressly" to mechanically cause a chemical reaction that discharged a bullet from a brass casing to send that bullet out the barrel.

LUN

Captain Hate

Are some of these eye candy tee shirt ads an early Christmas present or just taking the pressure off Iggy?

lyle

Caution!!

Before you click on that link, please be aware that there's an actual photograph of this heinous, people-killing rifle. Not for the faint of heart.

matt

let's look at the stats for machete killings in Rwanda or mass starvation and beating deaths in Cambodia circa 1976-77.

Jim Ryan

If it means ticking the murder rate down from 7/100,000 to 5/100,000, then I'm willing to give up my means of self-defense and my chance of resisting a tyrannical regime (should one ever take power, God forbid.) Plus, I can accept the bloodshed, court costs, and incarceration costs that would be result from a door-to-door confiscation of the millions of guns. Yes, if we can cut the murder rate by 30%, I'm fine with the downside.

narciso

And like the Python 'How to Do It Sketch' how exactly can we insure that goal would be achieved?

Jack is Back

Speculation on the motive.

When Mrs. JiB and I were first discussing the shootings and the reports of multiple bullet wounds in the children, I ventured that he was mad that his Mom cared more the school and those kids then him. Back then, everyone was talking about her being the teacher at the school.

It looks pretty credible to me and if they recover the hard drive on his computer this may get verified.

Jack is Back

Lets forget the other countries - we don't live there and every once in a while we have to save their ass with guys who grew up shooting guns. Lets talk about us - all 57 states.

Iowahawk makes a good point about Chicago versus Iowa:

"Since Jan 1 1990, 13,800 more people have been murdered in Chicago than in Iowa."

And Chicago has very strict gun control (aka gun safety) laws.

lyle

Soledad interviews John Lott in the LUN.

Well, "interviews" might not accurately describe it. For all you retrograde, gun-masturbating...clingers, she informs you that the Bushmaster .223 is "high-powered."
Also, it was made my George W. Bush, natch.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

How do they explain Switzerland?
They don't.

It is worth noting that in both Australia and the UK, once the prohibitive gun regulations began their violent crime rate shot up and now surpasses the USA's by a fairly wide margin.

Thomass

I think the biggest truck sized error in their argument is that the change in Euro gun laws did not change the murder rates one way or the other. Re: they had low murder rates BEFORE guns were made impossible to get. Correlation.... is... not (lets say it together now)... causation.

American culture has a high murder rate... taking guns away won't solve, or change, a thing. It could make it worse as the culture issues won't change but the innocent are disarmed.

lyle

You know all those ultraviolent video games that the kids like so much? The ones with lots of gun violence and blood?

Madeand funded by the NRA.

I heard it on MSNBC so it must be true.

Jim Miller

"exponentially more" While we are criticizing the NYT for innumeracy, let's not forget that common error. They could mean exponentially more, with the right exponent, but exponentially doesn't necessarily mean much more, or even more.

(If that mistake isn't obvious to you, here's an explanation. In that post, I suggested substituting order of magnitude, which would work in that NYT opinion piece -- except for the facts.

Wouldn't you know, in September, I saw a judge abusing orders of magnitude.)

Dublindave

Higher taxes on the wealthiest Americans and the first wave of significant gun control legislation in ten years.

2013 will be the 'Year of the Liberal'.

For the record, earlier in the year I said that gun control would be the centerpiece of Obama's second term. Add that to my other predictions: Roberts would be the swing vote on the ACA, Obama would win reelection and Pawlenty was a shoe in as Romney's VP.

lyle

You've heard of Quentin Tarantino? Maker of the ultraviolent movies, Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, and his newest, Django Unchained?

All funded by the NRA.

The NRA just loves killing people, especially children. The NRA should be killed just like that really smart professor tweeted yesterday. He's an...English Professor at UofRI so he's really smart.

willis

The killer did his work unopposed, because he was in a gun-free zone where only criminals are permitted to carry guns. Let's ban guns and make our entire country a gun-free zone. Feel safer?

For Real

Okay, so our murder rate is only seven times France's and 2.3125 (to be precise) times Finland's. I feel so much better now.

narciso

I was noting how Tarantino going back to 'Pulp Fiction' which has celebrated by practically every critic, like future Times WH correspondent Frank Bruni, then at the Detroit Free Press, all except James Bowman, didn't notice in their excitement, the gruesome violence delivered against innocent spectators for the most part, with confident detachment,

NK

Murder Rate?-- what is it in 'inner city' areas, and if those areas were removed from national averages (be fair -- take the inner city numbers out of the numerators and denominators) what would the US national average be?

lyle

For Real:

You want to feel even better? Let's start breaking down murder rates by ethnicity in the US. OK, I don't really think you'll feel better at all. How about murder rates by population density, urban vs. suburban? Maybe you're smart enough to see where I'm going with this.

Steve Kellmeyer

Uhh... The United States has a younger population than most European countries.

Younger populations always have higher homicide rates. Check it out:

http://skellmeyer.blogspot.com/2012/12/an-inconvenient-truth-violence-edition.html

NK

SteveK@444: that is a very apt point.
"Lies, damnable lies, and statistics."

swissmiss

RE: Switzerland and gun control. Let me tell you those Swiss have very good control of their guns as a stroll along the canal from Opfikon toward the Zurich airport will reveal. Directly behind the earthen berm backstopping the targets of the local shooting club is the fueling station of the airport beyond that is the main administration building of the airport and just beyond that are the runways. This is a rifle range.

I asked a Swiss how this could be. He said, "the Swiss are very good shots, we never miss"

Here take a look at this annotated photo.

http://screencast.com/t/OXawLO33NI

the map is at

http://goo.gl/maps/2x86m

For Real

Lyle: You can break out the numbers showing how violent the blacks 'n Meskins are, as long as you also tell us how many "spree" massacres they commit. Ah, but yes, those white killers, they're the exception to the rule.

narciso

Not too mention, thanks to Stieg Larsson and Jens Lepidus, one sees the underside of Swedish social democracy's facade, a fastiche of Latin American, Yugoslav, Russian and Arab mob elements,

Rob Crawford
she informs you that the Bushmaster .223 is "high-powered."

Has a "journalist" ever NOT used "high-powered" to refer to a firearm?

Rob Crawford

Does "For Real" smell like a particular failure who works as a perfesser?

Rob Crawford
You know all those ultraviolent video games that the kids like so much? The ones with lots of gun violence and blood?

Madeand funded by the NRA.

I heard it on MSNBC so it must be true.

Wait until the find the one for-real funded by the Army.

Chili

Yep, break it down by ethnicity and I suspect the white rates will be about the same as white rates in Europe. I would further point out that laws can discriminate on the basis of race if there is a strong state interest - like saving lives (not quite as strong as "diversity" but still...). So maybe gun control laws for certain ethnic groups is appropriate.

NK

"High powered"?-- what defines a handgun/rifle's 'power'? weight of the bullet? muzzle velocity? rate of fire? does 'high powered' have any meaning?

lyle

FR:

Why do "spree" massacres count differently than just your ordinary murder every weekend in, oh...say, Chicago? Also, define "spree." Also, who said anything about "blacks 'n Meskins," besides you? Racist.

Jorge J

" long as you also tell us how many "spree" massacres they commit."

What is the "spree" total body count vs "non-spree"?

What is the annual "assault" rifle death count vs "hands & feet"? Hint: 340 vs 820. I prefer to be shot than beaten to a death. Unless you are going to ban "assault" hands & feet as well.

NK

Leftists are obsessed with race. It's pathetic and repellent.

lyle

does 'high powered' have any meaning?

Only if you've never shot a firearm in your life and are scared shitless by the very image of one as scary as the [cue ominous music]...Bushmaster.

bgates

The FBI says that there were 14,548 murders in America in 2011, 4,729 known to involve white murderers, 5,486 black, and 256 other (with an alarming 4,077 unknown). If we figure the unknowns break down along the same racial lines, that's 52% of the murders coming from ~13% of the population, which means that America ex black people has a murder rate about 54% as high as America as a whole.

Steve Kellmeyer

If you were able to stop young black men from having arguments with friends and family members, the homicide rate in the US would drop by 50% - that's according to the FBI.

http://skellmeyer.blogspot.com/2012/12/an-inconvenient-truth-violence-edition.html

Rob Crawford
You can break out the numbers showing how violent the blacks 'n Meskins are, as long as you also tell us how many "spree" massacres they commit.

Weird form of comparison. An occasional event, one every few months across the entire United States, compared to the constant drumbeat of shootings in some neighborhoods. Chicago's homicides this year is in the 490s, and unless I missed some news they had NO spree killings. That's just about a Newtown every month.

But you're OK with that... do you hate blacks and "Meskins"?

Steve Kellmeyer

Looks like Jack is Back nailed the motive to the wall.

I bet the news media will be all over him in the morning.

Or not.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/fear-being-committed-may-have-caused-connecticut-madman-to-snap/

cathyf

Rob, you brought back memories... about 25 years ago I worked on programming a heads-up display for a video game funded by the Navy.

Steve Straub

Another source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command: for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression.

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States

Noah Webster, An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution - http://bit.ly/Ua4uzb

lyle

Unless you are going to ban "assault" hands & feet as well.

Give Nancy, Bloomie, and Choomie some time.

NK

As I said above obsession with race is repellent. But culture can't be ignored. The simple truth is that a few neighborhoods in Chicago suffer a Newtown body count every three weeks. It's not a spectacular act of madness by a single sick individual, it is the steady body count of young men settling disagreements with, almost exclusively, handguns. One of those neighborhods was BarryI's original political base. Heal your hometown first Barry; until you do that, spare us the banalities and the powergrabs designed as protecting the 'children'. Has Barry no compassion for the people in South and West ChiTown? Does he harbor some kind of pathological hatred of his political birthplace? or are those bodies politically inconvenient for him somehow?

lyle

Wait until the find the one for-real funded by the Army.

I see what you did there...

henry

OK gun banners... time to impeach Obama. Fast & Furious gun found at murder site of Mexican Beauty Queen, provided on Obama's orders and this gun not reported to Congress. Impeaching Obama is the only sensible gun control move for Congress.

I am the NRA

This 2007 study would seem to refute the 200 study.

http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/

maryrose

New York News has a reaaly racial hate post wrt Susan Rice. In it the author tears McCain a new one over Rice's withdrawal. Not a word is mentioned about her full Ginsberg ,lying fest on the Sunday shows.

Rob Crawford

This is the kind of thing that DOESN'T concern so many of the thugs, LUN:

"A teen was shot while riding a school bus after a Chicago Public Schools basketball game in the South Side Englewood neighborhood Monday evening, police said.

"The bus, which was transporting a basketball team following the game, was near West 62nd Street and South Stewart Avenue about 7:53 p.m. when three or four gunman aimed at the vehicle and opened fire..."

Those 3-4 gunmen weren't "spree killers", and I suspect their criminal records are not clean. But in any case, they live in a city with some of the strictest "gun control" laws around, and shot up a fricking school bus. And the coverage never made it out of the local news.

lyle

Impeaching Obama is the only sensible gun control move for Congress.

Throw one Holder, Eric in there and we'd have a package deal.

maryrose

henry: There is so much he could be impeached on, it boggles the mind. Fast and Furious{where the guns keep cropping up like "Carrie" in the movie entitled"Carrie.
Also Benghazi and failure to assist Sandy victims. The worthless stimulus and constant prevarications about Obamacare. I happened to see Senator Hagan on a show saying we have to make Obamacare affordable for people. Dems hate Bammy's bill like poison and no one wants it to stand as it is at present.

mockmook


Tom documents again and again and again and again......and again and again how the NYT is unreliable.

Why does he read it?

henry

True maryrose, but as they say-- never let a crisis go to waste. ; )

NK

"Why does he read it?"

sadomasochism?

maryrose

Lyle:
From your lips to God's ears.
Personally I think Holder wants to get out of Dodge but Bammy won't let him. No one does butt-boy like Holder.

Jack is Back

narciso,

I know a young guy who is a forensic computer engineer who says unless you nuke the hard drive he can recover their contents. I imagine the FBI has the same capability.

Let me the first to ask the question: Where was the father in young Adam's life? As a Christian i have great sorrow for that young man no matter the evil he rendered. He was sick and his mother tried on her own to find a way to heal him but it wasn't enough. Young men need fathers, not every day but they need their counsel, discipline and love.

Where was the father?

lyle

I can dream, can't I, maryrose? Holder is the most corrupt AG in the last 100 years. At least RFK got the gig because the was the best qualified, right?

/tries to maintain straight face...

lyle

Where was the father?

From what I've read his father and mother were divorced and that he is a telecom exec. Pretty sure about the first part, less certain about the last. Don't put me under a polygraph, though. I can't lie like Choomie.

narciso

Close, he worked for GE Capital, but the first
part is right,

NK

JiB-- the Lanza father was the subject of a brief article in the Stamford Advocate. Don't know if it was right for the paper to recite the street where he lives, but there you go, the media being helpful. the whole thing's just a tragedy of epic proportions:
http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Reporter-broke-news-to-father-of-suspect-4119559.php

R7 Rocket

Germany (with its strict gun laws) has had multiple mass shootings in recent years in its gun free zones. The NYT is being deliberately and maliciously dishonest.

Jd

The solution to the gun debate would be for Congress and the White House to set an example for the country and declare the White House and all government buildings and workers to be "gun free zones" to show us how confident they are in "gun free zones". If guns are the problem, they will be safer without guns, right?

Landru

I thought I would point out that the Euro homicide rates include only those are deemed intentional, and a larger number of homicides in those countries that are deemed unintentional are left out. I'm not going to take the time to post links, but for example, you see Sweden with 92 in 2009. However, go to Nationmaster and they will have a list for manslaughters from 2002, referencing the UN survey for that year (which I can't find). They have 290 or so. Germany has around 850 manslaughters that are not included. In the US, of course, anything that is murder (including felony homicide, which is accidental or unintentional) or nonnegligent manslaughter is included. For example, in Virginia in 2008, there were 311 arrests for murder/nonnegligent homicide. There were only 12 for negligent homicide. The Euro countries are simply leaving out a whole slew of other homicides from their rate. Like almost all their statistics, they are fudged.

Extraneus


NRA to 'push back' soon, schedules news conference

A statement released late Tuesday by the Fairfax, Va.-based organization announced that it would hold a "major" news conference on Friday. Issued by an aide to NRA President Wayne LaPierre, the statement also conveyed condolences for the murders and expressed the group's willingness to offer "meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again."

"The National Rifle Association of America is made up of four million moms and dads, sons and daughters -- and we were shocked, saddened and heartbroken by the news of the horrific and senseless murders in Newtown," the statement said.

"Out of respect for the families, and as a matter of common decency, we have given time for mourning, prayer and a full investigation of the facts before commenting."

Looking forward to it.

Captain Hate

Also, define "spree."

Latrell Sprewell; former University of Alabama and NBA player who was suspended for the majority of a season for attacking and choking head coach PJ Carlissimo when playing for Golden State. Following that he was signed by the spotlight-on-quality-people New York Knicks where he achieved some degree of success playing for Jeff "Human Fuzzy Bedroom Slipper" Van Gundy. Was either traded by the Knicks or became a free agent after missing part of the start of the season after getting into an altercation with somebody on his boat after the other person's squeeze puked all over the place (see: associates with classy people) and breaking his hand. He went to the T-Wolves where he achieved a degree of success with Sam Cassell and Kevin Garnett, reaching the Western Div finals at one point.

He then reached a contract impass with the T-Wolves, claiming the multi-million dollar offered contract "wasn't enough to feed" his children. Subsequently one of his pit bulls badly bit one of said children, which he blamed on the child. He's subsequently had financial problems with his car customizing business, shocking as that might sound.

Chris

Spree-I think the choked coach was Nelson (Nellie). otherwise succinct.

maryrose

Laturell seems to go from one crisis to another.

Extraneus

Rick Perry approves carrying in schools

Perry just clarified he supports "local control" for deciding whether permit holders can carry guns in schools
He wasn't very good in debates, though.
Extraneus
Perry on running for president in 2016: "I would do it again."
matt

no, it was PJ. Spree ended losing his boats and houses and pretty much everything he had. "I got to feed my children" and refusing $14.5 Mil/year has gone down in NBA history as one of the dumbest things ever said and done.

the average NBA player is flat broke by the second year outside of the NBA. Paging Allen Iverson! Paging Starbury!

NK

Chris: nah, Capt H had it right, Spree choked PJ Carlissimo. PJ's star burned brightly for 4-5 years at Seton Hall and then the NBA, but it seems to have burned out entirely.

Chris

My mistake. It was PJ. Carry on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrell_Spreewell

Captain Hate

Good guess, Chris, but you would be wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrell_Sprewell

I did spell PJ's last name incorrectly. I also missed this updated gem:

he has made headlines for grounding his million dollar yacht, having two of his homes foreclosed upon, and being prohibited from seeing his children.

matt

with his hair we used to call him Latrella from the sidelines and urged him to get Mattel to do a doll. Good player, but crazy.

Charlie (Colorado)

I know a young guy who is a forensic computer engineer who says unless you nuke the hard drive he can recover their contents. I imagine the FBI has the same capability.

That's a little bit of an exaggeration: both a thermite grenade and a ball mill work quite adequately.

maryrose

NRA will hopefully inject some sense into this debate.
Personally I would never own a gun
, however I believe it is a citizen's right to own them. The federal government should not be in this picture at all. States can decide what they want for themselves on this issue.
Meanwhile the real issue is ignored. We continue to cut funding for mental illness concerns and long term placement. These are necessary to keep dangerous and unstable persons off the street. Fund mental health and let Planned Parenthood with the grateful donations of the libs, get away from federal funding.

Captain Hate

Glad to see we have so many NBA mavens here. Spree was a *special* kind of player.

NK, I liked PJ but I'll bet he was a real pain to play for.

Jack is Back

matt,

You can take the man out of the hood but not the hood our of the man. Especially when he allows his entourage of homies to break his bank just after his ACL collapses. There are the exception, guys like Lebron a product of a Catholic school education. He is a very smart, worldly guy (not to piss off CH) and understands his finances and family obligation but he and a few others are the exception no the rule.

Extraneus

I've had a carry permit and multiple handguns for quite a few years now. I don't carry regularly, but I did after 9/11 and I wished I'd had a higher-capacity clip at the time.

When (not if) terrorism comes back to our shores, and schoolkids are targeted, we'll all wish we did.

Rick Ballard

bgates,

That's 14,548 offenders who accounted for 12, 664 victims of which 6,324 were black. You have to use Table Two in conjunction with Table Six to generate a reasonable SWAG regarding race of offenders. I make closer to 54-55% black but 52% isn't beyond reason. The black victim rate per 100K is 16.66 - less than half that of South Africa. The non-black rate is 2.25.

rse

The Lanza dad is also a tax prof at more than one school.

maryrose-on the Rice editorial, I think the media and the creators of curricula like the Facing History I mentioned today are actively pursuing creating false beliefs about anything that is politically useful to manipulate aggrieved groups. Like that Rice was mistreated.

It's also the essence of CAGW as I got reminded of with a Biology final today and 3 9th graders in the car this morning. They were going over the ecosystem and global warming and air pollution etc questions because half the semester was spent on Ecology now that there is no longer an EOCT in that subject. Propaganda galore.

I think that's also the real story on the 70% info text requirement and all the mentions now of using primary sources. Many are hugely misleading and practically parody the side they are representing. But a student wouldn't know that.

One of the NAS reports on transitioning to a managed economy around Sustainability mentioned picking out the issues they wanted citizens to be aroused over.

Gun control is clearly the meme du jour.

I also am not seeing anything that accurately describes the Constitution anymore. Civics is trying to rewrite the document through the false beliefs instilled in K-12 education.

This is likely to get worse because it is working.

Jack is Back

If I could lie like Victoria Nuland and Jay Carney with a straight face and total commitment to it, I would be surpassing P. J. Barnum for hocus-pocus millions in the bank. How do these people sleep at night or do they?

Vampire (blood suckers) movies are pretty popular these days.
I wonder why?

Captain Hate

No offense taken, JiB. LeBron has been pretty smart about just about everything with one glaring exception which I think he learned from. Gloria's son has done much better than a reasonable person would be led to believe.

Rob Crawford
When (not if) terrorism comes back to our shores, and schoolkids are targeted, we'll all wish we did.

I can't be the only person who thought "Beslan" when the (false) reports of a second shooter came out. That it was a lunatic was small comfort, but it was some.

jimmyk

wherever there are more firearms, there are more homicides.

Wherever there are more umbrellas, there is more rain.

Rob Crawford

The hoplophobes should seek therapy rather than attempt to turn the rest of us into criminals.

narciso

It 'pays the mortgage as they say, JiB, but she is not the typical apparatchik


http://www.state.gov/r/bios/180394.htm

Landru

More fun with numbers. I downloaded a large excel file from the FBI site which list crimes by city/town (those reported by municipal police) and another by county (those reported by county police) Filter on the homicide=0 column and you get a list of hundreds of towns with a combined population of 70 million. Do the same on counties (they do not give population for the county) and 68% of them had 0 homicides.
I'll speculate that the 68% of the counties have a population of at least 30 million, so that comes to 100 million+ people, many owning guns, who managed to avoid killing anyone.

Jack is Back

CH,

I knew you knew him better but he does seem to have his shite together versus some of the others out there. But then I am not a big NBA fan and probably talking out of my ass here. I do like that kid Durant in OK and Griffin in LA. Only because they seem to get lots of time on ESPN Top Plays:)

narciso

Sometimes, I really wish I didn't remember so much, or know how to find it,

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-10-08/us/schools.iraq_1_disks-individual-schools-school-codes?_s=PM:US

Extraneus

Wherever there are more umbrellas, there is more rain.

Heh.

Jack is Back

Oh, please narciso, read that CV. Plus she is married to Bob Kagan at Brookings. Soft, cold pillow, you bet.

Rob Crawford

Yeah, narciso, I remember that story.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--wherever there are more firearms, there are more homicides--

Utterly false;
Here are 35 pages of UN homicide statistics to peruse which demonstrate culture and race are far more coincidental to homicide than guns. Many of the countries with the most stringent gun controls and the lowest prevalence of firearms have murder rates higher, often many times higher than the US.
Jamaica is infamous and notorious for its zero tolerance of firearms, with its Gun Courts, and has a homicide rate nearly 15 times ours.

Rob Crawford

Ig, how DARE you cite facts!

narciso

They have discovered water is wet, although they are not sure it's a permanent condition;


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2131552,00.html?pcd=v5-magmod

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