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December 16, 2012

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Rob Crawford
or buy a gun from some antique dealer

That's because the law doesn't consider weapons built before 1890 (I think) as firearms. Anyone who watches "Pawn Stars" knows this; why a lawmaker doesn't can only be chalked up to willful ignorance.

And muzzle loaders aren't considered firearms regardless of their age.

Can we honestly say that we are doing enough to keep our children — all of them — safe from harm?

Note -- the "man" saying this voted to make it legal to let newborns die from exposure if they had the bad taste to have come out of an abortion still alive.

He should STFU.

DrJ

OT but SF is killing NE in football. The score currently is 24-3, and SF just intercepted once again.

[Update while typing] SF 30-3, before BAT.

DrJ

uh, that would be *PAT*. Now 31-3. Sorry Jane!

peter

Can anyone think of a more hypocritical phrase than Obama asking, "if we are honest with ourselves....?"

daddy

Slightly OT:)

Yesterday, (Sunday morning in Paris), I decided to take another Walking Tour of the City. Tour was The Marais: The Marais Circuit 2 2.30pm Stories of royalty, mistresses and intrigue in this beautiful historic neighbourhood. On Circuit 2 we explore the Northern side of the Marais. Elegant classical mansions with graceful courtyards and gardens, the old Jewish quarter with the picturesque rue des Rosiers, and the imposing architecture of the royal place des Vosges, the city’s oldest square. Meet at metro St Paul.

The Metro was exceptionally crowded from Bercy, so I got off early at the Gare de Lyon, and decided I would take a leisurely walk up to the Place Bastille, then continue down to the St Paul station. 50 degrees, slightly overcast.

As I approach the Bastille Square suddenly it is many many thousands of people obviously congregating for a public demonstration and march. Hundreds of signs being waved saying PS (Party Socialist) and virtually everyone with a label slapped on their arms reading: "Xegalite."

Wending thru the massive crowd I turn left at the Rue de San Antonio and walk amidst the protesters many blocks down to our meet up.

Finding our guide who I like very much and have used 3 times before, he explains that todays mass protest is in favor of Gay Marriage and opposed to the recent Mass Protest in Paris that was opposed to Gay Marriage. He does much translation of the signs and the chants which was very informative. What I found unusual, having now understood what the protest was about, was the lack of ostentatious, gay "in your face" flamboyancy in this protest that I have seen in Cologne or expect I would see in San Francisco. Seemed like a well behave crowd.

As the march finally starts down the Avenue towards us, our small group heads north across the marchers path and we begin an absolutely fascinating tour of the old Jewish section of The Marais. .

We learn about the first Jewish residents of Paris (@500 AD), then how they are booted out in a later year, brought back in the following century, booted out again in the 1300's, allowed back again during the Revolution, car-bombed at this location in the 1980's etc. Absolutely fascinating History. Views of many Synagogues with explanations of who designed them, what happened to them over the centuries, and explanations of all the Jewish names posted at the entrances to Jewish shops and schools, explaining that these are the names of the Jews from these locations who were sent to the Concentration camps in the 1940's by the Nazi's, with various stories from our excellent guide on survivors, and the Resistance who helped. Explanations followed that the Paris Jewish population is now about 80 percent Sephardic, (North African Jewish heritage) versus 20 percent Ashkenazim (Euro-Heritage) and why.

Then we move on to the Marais's rise as an acceptable location for royalty and near royalty starting about the 1300's, with stops at marvelously intriguing locations to explain that so and so's murder here in the 14th Century was a large catalyst for the 100 years war, and here lived the King's most favorite chosen woman, etc.
Next we meet the equivalent of high scale Medieval Pawn shops, still in operation 500 years later, gorgeous parks to follow, fab smelling pastry shops and ancient locations of The Templars, until conclusion 2 hours later at the place des Vosges

Then I split off, and unable to recall the name of the place Melinda recommends near the area, I just chose a suitable street-side cafe for wonderful chow and people watching, and had another marvelous day exploring Paris.


gad-fly

Retiring Joe Lieberman woke up long enough to note the increase in incidents of school shootings.

Unfortunately he did not relate the increased incidents to the 85% relapses now occurring with use of SSRI antidepressants on mentally-retarded children and young adults. Episodic depression has now been replaced by chronic depression among SSRI users.

All of the school shootings have had SSRI drugs as part of the picture and Adam Lanza is not an exception to this rule. Asperger Syndrome patients are prescribed some mixture of SSRIs.

narciso

Wonderful tour, daddy, Silva mentioned the Marais, in one of his earlier books 'Prince of Fire' The French have been through that wave, before, just like they figured those hucksters,Baigent and Leigh, twenty years ago,

boatbuilder

Do you suppose that any of the teachers in that school in Newtown desperately wished they, or someone else, had a gun to protect those children? Can we honestly say that completely disarming the custodians of our children is doing enough to keep them safe from harm?.

daddy

Learning of all the successful anti-Jewish pogroms on the walk thru the Marais today reinforced the wisdom of our Founders in guaranteeing our rights as individual citizens to keep and bear arms for protection against Government.

Anybody who wants to remove that right from US citizens is an enemy of the Constitution.

boatbuilder

Dr. J--7 point game with 12 minutes left.

bio mom

Why are they making this all about Obama? Some reporter called this his Gettysburg address!! This is a memorial service, not a political rally. The worship of these reporters for this mediocre man is very disturbing.

narciso

When Al Jazeera has reservations on the video presentation, and it resembles that puff press
that bgates has the Kim dynast complaining, you know you've gone 'to eleven'

boatbuilder

Tie game!

narciso

Wow, did that happen?

boatbuilder

Not anymore.

Gus

Boatbuilder??????????? IT WAS A GUN FREE ZONE!!!!!!!
There were more COEXIST BUMPER STICKERS in the parking lot, than NRA stickers.

Soylent Red

Progs have been dying for a gun grab since day one. This is the convenient excuse.

we’re going to lose the pain, the hurt and the anger that we have now.

Naturally we should act quickly, emotionally. Don't want people to think too much about civil liberties, or the next Constitutional right the Progs will abridge in the name of safety. I notice the ACLU hasn't said peep. But then this doesn't involve Nativity scenes.

If our "leadership" perpetrates this (and they will try), and the Supremes let it happen (and they will try), the Constitution is officially dead.

In nine of eleven dimensions it is already over.

The Putsch will not be televised.
=================

daddy

France 24 in English tells me the Repub's are offering to raise taxes on those making over 1 million. I did not know about that but I guess you guys did. Seems like they think it is a fair idea.

But then they go on about Gerrard Deperdieu bailing out for taxes, and comment on many many more who have fled the 75 percent Tax hike in France, and speak as if that is a good thing to protest that Tax Hike.

I am confused after watching the French. C'est la vie!

rse

whether the nation is doing enough to give all children a chance at a good life with “happiness and with purpose.

You know I would argue that government officials intervening at the psychological level in the classroom to stoke their versions of what will create "happiness and purpose" coupled with an insistence on equal outcomes for all kids plus actively trying to create Newmindedness that bypasses reason--all for political purposes has far more to do with an increase in gun shootings related to schools or by people just out of school.

I decided to look further into that Facing History curriculum this weekend because the books had arrived. Daddy's lovely walk through tour of Paris is a reminder of just how much schemers use horrific events for political gain. In the case of FH, it is the Holocaust but it is an erroneous curriculum designed to fuel hate, misunderstanding of historical causes, and then political action. If that tangent was going to be the refuge from contemplating all that has changed in K-12 in the past 25 years and how it is being nationalized, that turned out to be the wrong pathway.

I guess our government who wants for us to see it as the source of our happiness and purpose thinks it would be best if it unarms us physically to go hand in hand with its intention to disarm us mentally and impoverish us fiscally.

I have a very lovely tree to look at while I feel so less than festive.

Melinda Romanoff on Kindle

Mused Nissim de Camondo. LUN.

Melinda Romanoff on Kindle

Mused=Musee. Stupid autocorrect.

Janet

This at Ed Driscoll makes me think of the David Horowitz book - Destructive Generation

“Source: Obama has chosen John Kerry as Secretary of State.”

If true, as I wrote the other day, the sixties are now complete: A president supported by an ex-Weatherman and the New Black Panthers might as well have a Winter Soldier in his cabinet for the complete Radical Chic Meets Geritol experience.

Those "kids" have been poison from the get-go. After their riots & protest parties....they burrowed into our institutions. It is just terrible....

Melinda Romanoff on Kindle

Janet-

Sadly, they never matured past their lives in the sixties. Stuck in a time warp.

rse

Also stuck in a Worldview.

Janet

I guess their all striving to be Che. :(

Janet

*they're*

We wuz takin' it to 'em.

Oh, good. Swifties, Ho!
==============

Jim Ryan

Jane Fonda for Sec Def.

centralcal

Gov. Haley will be announcing Jim Demint's replacement today. Any guesses?

Jim Ryan

As for our biweekly mass gun murders: Did the perpetrators show sufficient symptoms of insanity before their murders to have given people in the old days cause to put them in an asylum? Is there any other question relevant to public policy in this case?

centralcal

David Burge ‏@iowahawkblog

BBC's Charlie Booker examines tragedy porn journalism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4&feature=player_embedded# …!

-------

Very good advice if only the media would follow it, which - alas - it won't.

narciso

It looked like with McMaster, she was going for a conventional pick like Crist did Lemieux, maybe
she's changed her mind,

The more important issues cannot be addressed with legislation, but with something deeper,

centralcal

Well, narciso, like everything on media Tweets - take with a grain of salt:

Peter Hamby ‏@PeterHambyCNN

Nikki Haley called former SC Attorney General Henry McMaster last night to inform him he won't be the pick for DeMint seat, per GOP source

narciso

I got a flag, when I tried to reach Hamby's twitter feed.

Captain Hate

The more important issues cannot be addressed with legislation, but with something deeper,

I'm still filled with rage heated to the temperature of a billion supernovas over the JEF's obscene performance about what *he's* going to do to make things better at what was mawkishly dubbed a "memorial service". I hope the families of the victims gave that a wide berth because his grandstanding was an insult to all of them.

centralcal

Really? Actually, I saw Hamby only because Jim Geraghty re-tweeted it.

centralcal

I suspected as much, Captain, when I heard he was going there. I watched Food Network instead of news networks all afternoon and into the evening, so that I would not be subjected to him.

narciso

Well probably more accurate then anything that appears in the State, central, which really hates her with the force of a thousand suns, not unlike a certain paper, that me and daddy are acquainted with,

narciso

Insty, makes a good point;


http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/159800/


steve

Gun advocates have to acknowledge there are many fewer mass killings in England than in the US. England has strict gun control laws.

steve

We could focus on the medications that young men are being prescribed. I have an upstairs neighbor who gets violent and delusional from time to time because of his meds. 22 years old.

Appalled

Like OGH, I did not care much for Obama's speechifying last night. My thoughts here:

http://deathlessdialog.blogspot.com/2012/12/obama-revealed.html

Probably not as harsh as Captain Hate would put it, but I don't ever mean comparisons to Woodrow Wilson as a compliment.

narciso

Surprising banning has not solved the problem;


http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/gun-crime

Old Lurker

So lost in all the gun news I see that Boehner tried to cave on taxes and the debt ceiling and the WH told him "More"?

Jack is Back

Steve,

But there are gun murders in England and hand guns are banned not just controlled. If you are so concerned about mass murder and violence of the young innocents, where do you stand on the legal infanticide we know as abortion? The same people who support abortion rights are also those who always call for gun control or banning after these kind of tragic events.

Hypocrisy at its zenith.

steve

"... Insty, makes a good point;

... Would any of the various proposals have actually prevented the tragedy that is the supposed reason for them? ..."

well for this specific case, set an age limit at which people can go to the gun range and practice with guns. Don't allow a 20 year old on depression medication to practice firing a weapon.

narciso

They are also more then likely, the ones who are first to impair the police's effective function,

Melinda Romanoff

steve-

Perhaps a debate over the freedoms allowed for mentally impaired might be needed? Especially since actual gun crimes are dropping as sales have soared?

steve

"... But there are gun murders in England and hand guns are banned not just controlled. ..."

just saying we need a response to that argument. There are many fewer gun killings in England.

Captain Hate

This is our first task -- caring for our children. It’s our first job. If we don’t get that right, we don’t get anything right

This is pretty rich coming from somebody who was abandoned by both of his garbage parents and exhibits the impact of that constantly. Too bad nobody in the MFM bothers to point that out.

steve

There could be restrictions on people 30 years or younger owning or practicing with guns. Consider the people most vociferous in opposition to gun restrictions are older than 30 and the vast majority of gun killers are less than 30.

Captain Hate

There are many fewer gun killings in England.

There are many fewer people in England, idiot. Why don't you go to the children's table and stop making ignorant comments.

steve

"... Why don't you go to the children's table and stop making ignorant comments. ..."

what are you on this message board like every day? What have you learned from such a dedicated practice?

Rob Crawford
I notice the ACLU hasn't said peep.

The ACLU has stated they don't give a rip about your right to self-defense or ANY rights on-line. Their refusal to get involved in Steve Jackson Games vs. The Secret Service led to the creation of the Electronic Freedom Foundation, which, sadly, has apparently been captured by moonbats.

Janet

It is almost unbearable to have a lib. lecture me on moral behavior &/or caring for children.

Rob Crawford
I guess their all striving to be Che. :(

Considering his fate...

Melinda Romanoff

And steve, at least try to get your facts straight before gushing emoticons.

narciso

That's one of the striking things I've noticed about the OECD health comparisons, none of them
are anywhere near the size and complexity of the US, maybe all of Western Europe, but Germany is about 1/5 our population, the UK 1/7th.

Melinda Romanoff

Beep! Beep! Beep!

Caution!

Goalpost moving in progress!

steve

"... It is almost unbearable to have a lib. lecture me on moral behavior &/or caring for children. ..."

it is just going to get worse. How it goes in California, so goes the nation. Support secession.

steve

"... at least try to get your facts straight ..."

What about just focusing on the mass killing events. Do they occur in England, in Europe? Nothing like they do in the US. Up to the age of 30 you have to get the approval of the local police chief before you can own a gun or practice at a firing range.

Melinda Romanoff

No. All facts are pertinent. Not your dip into the cherry bowl.

fdcol63

I don't give a rat's ass what they do in the UK.

I'm an American, not a Brit.

Some of my forefathers fled a despot in England, and fought to create a Constitutional Republic here in America.

Rob Crawford

All over Cincinnati, people are saying "Jim Scott? He lives in South Carolina?"

Mark Folkestad

Martha McCallum just betrayed her thoughts on Fox. She described the recent shootings as involving military weapons that the public has no need for. Hah. If an officer outfitted his soldiers/marines with semi-automatic weapons, they would be at a great disadvantage, and the officer would be court-martialed.

James D.

Steve, the difference between the UK and here is that they are subjects, and we are (supposed to be) ciizens.

I don't believe that the local police chief, or Michael Bloomberg, or Barack Obama, or anybody else, has the right to tell me how to live, or to decide whether they approve of the means by which I might choose to protect myself or my family.

It's really that simple.

Extraneus

UK Daily Mail: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade

BBC: Handgun crime 'up' despite ban

A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.
steve

"... It's really that simple. ..."

I do not think the "they can't tell me what to do, etc" argument gets us anywhere. The Bloombergs and Obamas of the country already have plenty to say about what we do. Frankly I do not have much use for the federal constitution. What people do in NY State or California is their own concern. If they want to ban guns or enable fetuscide that should be their choice.
Republicans should press more and more for states rights solution to our political and public policy discussions.

James D.

Steve,

It's the ONLY argument. As soon as you get onto the ground of exactly how much regulation is OK, as soon as you cede the idea that elected officials ought to have any more say in our lives than at the most limited level necessary to maintain a functioning society, you've lost.

And to go from gun control to other topics, that's precisely why we've got a $16 trillion debt and a $1+ trillion/year deficit, and a 2,500 page health care bill that no one comprehensively understands but which will impact the access to care that you and I and everyone else have, and on and on and on...

sbw

Steve: There are many fewer gun killings in England.

Correlation vs. Causation? Crime statistics are often a better indicator of law enforcement that of the prevelence of crime, says one crime statistics website.

And why single out England? Is it because its statistics are convenient to attempt a rhetorical point?

South Africa over the last decade put in very tight gun control and, with six times the population, has three times as many firearm murders as does the United States.

The anguished hand-wringing on the left is not pretty. Neither is their logic. Apparently they argue that a battered woman should not be allowed to defend herself because someone else was deranged.

At the risk of a poor analogy, reload your rationale and fire again.

sbw

Oops! "six times" s/b "one/sixth"

Preview is your friend.

fdcol63

" ... Frankly I do not have much use for the federal constitution. What people do in NY State or California is their own concern. ..."

This, coupled with steve's earlier comment about "Support secession", makes clear that steve doesn't like the Consitutional Republic we've had, and would prefer that the US break up into its smaller, State level constituents.

I would agree with him that I would prefer to return to the days when we referred to the country as THESE United States, rather than THE United States.

But steve apparently wants a complete fragmentation of the country.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--There are many fewer gun killings in England.--

The UK has approximately double the murder rate of Switzerland.
There are several hundred thousand actual assault rifles, ie, selective fire including fully automatic, in the private homes of the Swiss. And there are hundreds of thousand more semi auto only rifles and handguns. Perhaps the UK would do better were it to require full autos in its homes rather than confiscatory gun control.
And looking down the list it is possible to find many countries with very strict gun control laws which have murder rates many times ours.
Please steve, stop being an idiot.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Moreover Britain and Australia actually experience more violent crime per capita than the US a phenomenon linked directly to their draconian anti gun measures.

NK

Ig-- refresh my recollection-- what is the sportsman or home/personal protection rational for high capacity .223 magazines?

Bill in AZ sez it's time for Obama/Holder murder trial in Mexico

"what is the sportsman or home/personal protection rational for high capacity .223 magazines?"

What does sportsman or home/personal protection have to do with anything?

matt

Anders Breivik killed 90+ people in Norway, another European country with restrictive gun laws. There have been other massacres as well.

Jim Ryan

Asking again. Anyone know?

Would the biweekly murder-spree maniacs of today have been institutionalized before they could get a chance to kill back in the old days? Were they exhibiting sufficient symptoms of derangement for a shrink to consider forcible institutionalization?

Anyone have two cents? If the answer is "yes," then we have an interesting policy question at hand: forcible institutionalization. Of course, we have to consider the maintenance of decency in the asylums and the safeguards against institutionalizing sane people by accident or subterfuge. But those are implementation details.

I can't find any other interesting policy question amongst these biweekly killing sprees.

NK

We know from Aurora and Newtown that high capacity .223 magazines are very convenient for maniacs to murder as many innocents as possible in the shortest period of time possible. Personally I don't think that is a valid basis for the manufacture and sale of high capacity magazines. I asked this question at JOM after Aurora, and I honestly don't recall the answers gun owners gave. If Bill's answer that is I want my high capacity mag, to hell with everybody else, it looks like that sort of legislation is coming.

jimmyk

Do you suppose that any of the teachers in that school in Newtown desperately wished they, or someone else, had a gun to protect those children?

Trying to get caught up here after a 14 hour overnight flight back to THESE United States. Now at 33,000 feet over Utah or thereabouts.

I was wondering whether there was any chance that the teachers' unions could break away from the Democrat orthodoxy and support arming teachers, or security guards, and doing away with all the "gun-free zone" nonsense, given that teachers have been victims, and have no recourse in these events but to sacrifice themselves.

But no, I don't expect this, as the unions care more about their good relations with the Democrats than about teachers.

NK

JimmyK@1245-- correct-- the teachers unions will never support using defensive firearms as a response to a maniac attacking a school-- LeftWing orthodoxy unconditionally bars that sort of logic. hell, after 9/11 the Left even opposed allowing commercial airliner crews from being armed on the flight deck.

NK

Speaking of Turbo Tim-- is there really talk of him being appointed Fed Chairman-- that's just a sick joke-- right? Not since Joe Kennedy was appointed first SEC Chairman in 1934 has there been such a sick joke.

Rick Ballard

"Would the biweekly murder-spree maniacs of today have been institutionalized before they could get a chance to kill back in the old days?"

Jim Ryan,

Probably not. Families with means locked their real nutters up in the house or paid institutions to keep them locked up. The murderous scum we have today show the level of mental competency which prompt public execution was intended to address in the old days. The thought of dangling from a rope as a result of their action would take the fun out their planning.

We can't get there from here, although a five year trial of the efficacy of prompt executions in Chicago would undoubtedly produce very interesting results.

It will be interesting to watch our Therapist in Chief try and objectify evil again. The constant two minute hate against SUVs hasn't panned out and having a Champion Babykiller generating crocodile tears as he goes to work on guns carries a nice bit of boomerang risk for him.

Jim Ryan

SEC STATE: Solder, d'you rape or pillage while you were over there?

SOLDIER #1: No, sir, I did not.

SEC STATE: Yeah, right. Here's you medal anyways. [HANDS SOLDIER A BRONZE STAR]

SOLDIER #1: Thank you, sir.

SOLDIER #2: [UNDER HIS BREATH] God help me, please God, help me.

SEC STATE: How many baby's d'you kill over there, soldier? Rip off any ears?

SOLDIER #2: None, sir.

SEC STATE: Sure. Here's your medal, killer. [HANDS SOLDIER BRONZE STAR].

etc.

Melinda Romanoff

NK-

Wrong about the teachers unions. They're arming themselves in Pittsburgh, as we speak.

NK

RickB@1257-- the problem is that when confronted with an act so evil, depraved and useless- but so terrible in effect, millions of Americans out of horror, grief and frustration will yell DO SOMETHING. Politicians -- always craven-- will cast about for SOMETHING to do. There'll be BILLIONS of dollars of budget outlays to beef up school protection nationally, living wage and union worker requirements thrown in natch-- and some kind of gun legislation -- my bet is (and TomM's as well apparently) magazine capacity. No real value will come from any of the ideas which will spring from politicians' heads, but we'll get the spending and the laws just the same.

NK

MelR-- color me surprised-- is there a news story from Pittsburgh?

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Ig-- refresh my recollection-- what is the sportsman or home/personal protection rational for high capacity .223 magazines?

Posted by: NK | December 17, 2012 at 11:56 AM--

Where to begin?
First, since the 2nd amendment protects my right to keep and bear arms and as Miller held, the guns protected by that amendment are first and foremost those that are useful to the militia, the "rationale" is inherent in the amendment. It's up to those who would ban them to provide a rationale for denying citizens their rights.

Second, high capacity magazines make it somewhat easier to put a large number of rounds on target. That is why cops and the military have them. Why should they have them to defend us but not us to defend ourselves?

Third, what is the rationale for banning them? While they make it somewhat easier to get off a large number of rounds, is there any evidence anywhere that there would have been fewer unarmed kindergartners or theater patrons shot by these creeps? They'd just carry a few more magazines.

More guns = less crime.
An armed society is a polite society.

Cliches but they're true. There is no useful middle ground. You can have an armed and polite society that is free or you can have a disarmed society that is neither free nor polite.
The third way, which we endure is to have an armed society that does not properly encourage sufficient public carrying of firearms and as a result we have a society which is fairly free but is not even close to polite.

Porchlight

If Bill's answer that is I want my high capacity mag, to hell with everybody else, it looks like that sort of legislation is coming.

The people who want to put illegal items to unlawful use will still be able to obtain said items they are banned, just as gun laws are easily sidestepped now.

Why do people, especially conservatives, think that a legislative "solution" involving firearms (or anything else) would actually do what it purports to do when it never has before?

Mark Folkestad

NK, are you sure you don't want all guns converted so that when the trigger is pulled a little flag pops out that says "BANG!"? The intention of the Founding Fathers was for the People to have the same weapons as the armies they might face. We are far below that bar right now. A car bomb or a bunch of Molotov cocktails will suffice if a nutter doesn't have a gun, and the results could be far worse. I will give no ground on my rights. Will you agree to give up your car, or put a governor in it so that it can't be driven over 10 mph, or a sensor added to make sure you don't have a trace of alcohol in your system, just because some people speed or drive drunk?

Bill in AZ sez it's time for Obama/Holder murder trial in Mexico

Nk 12:37 "If Bill's answer that is I want my high capacity mag, to hell with everybody else, "

I didn't "answer" anything, and that is certainly not even remotely what I said. I was merely trying to clarify your nonsensical question - more or less the same "question" you asked some weeks ago where you twisted the goalposts into a pretzel with libGunGrabber logic, and then wanted someone here to kick an answer through. Several of us made honest attempts to answer your "question" by first attempting to untwist the goalposts, but since you "honestly don't recall the answers gun owners gave", it is a waste of time to bother.

NK

Ig-- if that's your answer (and it was kind of what I recalled) then right or wrong you'll lose the political debate overwhelmingly and some.223 semi automatic rifle legislation will result. But you probaly know that already.
Bill-- I just won't bother...

Melinda Romanoff

NK-

Read it somewhere early this AM, can't remember where....looking, though.

The comments to this entry are closed.

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