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December 03, 2012

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Kurt

I wonder where the Obamas put the other three trees?

Melinda Romanoff

They're missing three, obviously.

Melinda Romanoff

They're missing three, obviously.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--the Obamas have decorated the White House with a mere 54 Christmas trees.--

That seems entirely appropriate for a man who fancies himself Santa Claus.

maryrose

Obama and math...n'er the twain shall meet.

Melinda Romanoff

Professional looking double post, I must congratulate my other self on thinking exactly the same thing I was.

Rob Crawford

One for each state and one for each member of the Obama family.

Spending cuts first!--jimmyk

Austerity for thee but not for me. Let me guess, $1 million per tree for the taxpayers, included 24-hour secret service protection?

James D.

It can't be said often enough: I really do loathe Zero.

Danube of Thought on IPad

Good God--I just watched (DVR) last night's 60 Minutes segment on that North Korean prison. A shocking reminder of how state power runs amok.

matt

It's Christmas! Time to buy that (insert name here)but for goodness' sake, don't mention the Christ part of it. Buy it because, you know, you want it.

In our family we have gone to one or two meaningful presents. Nothing fancy, but I am sick and tired of the comsumerist atheist BS and figured our family would at least make a stand.

Spending cuts first!--jimmyk

Boehner points out that the JEF's budget offer was basically the same as the one that got zero DEMOCRAT votes. Yet the Republicans are no doubt to blame for their intransigence.

http://freebeacon.com/an-unbalanced-approach/

Spending cuts first!--jimmyk

Maybe Barry's flagrant extravagance is preferable to Jimmuh's phony asceticism. The peanut farmer would have looked around for Charlie Brown's Christmas tree, no lighting please.

Captain Hate

Why does the JEF family need any Christmas trees since they're going to Hawaii on the 17th and won't return until after New Year?

BR

The Obamas don't know it, but the 54 is very significant.

Thomas Collins

To Rhode Island JOMers: Has Linc Chafee had the "non-Christmas tree" lighting ceremony yet at the State House?

Melinda Romanoff

DAily Caller reporting that David Corn has cited the WH in iBama's "reluctance" to being forced to go over the cliff, on the tax issue alone.

PDinDetroit

Only Obama Resigning could get the MSM upset with him.

Personally, I like the idea.

Melinda Romanoff

WaPo confirms.

rse

I wonder which one has the Mao ornament?

Thomas Collins

With the fiscal cliff, Obama gets (i) higher tax rates, (ii) substantial cuts to the military, and (iii) domestic cuts that don't endanger the Nanny Entitlement State. I think what many GOPers are missing is that the fiscal cliff is a plus for Obama. Thus, the GOP focus should not be seeking a good faith compromise, because Obama is not acting in good faith. The sole focus of the GOP should be setting the stage for Obama to be held accountable for what happens. That is why I am disappointed that the Congressional GOPers have not embraced the notion of (i) the House sending over a bill to the Senate with current marginal tax rates, Obamacare repeal and entitlement reform, and (ii) agreeing to abstain on a Dem bill. That approach would put vulnerable Senate Dems on the hot spot. Plus, it maximizes the chance that the Dems will be held responsible for their approach to the economy.

Captain Hate

DAily Caller reporting that David Corn has cited the WH in iBama's "reluctance" to being forced to go over the cliff, on the tax issue alone.

Is anybody surprised by this? The only "reluctance" is that he was expecting Boehner to cave; other than that he welcomes this.

Melinda Romanoff

I added the "reluctance" is observance of severe reluctance being conveyed by WH in Mother Jones and WaPo comments.

Didn't say that I believed it.

BR

Mel at 12:49 - hilarious. See, the universe has already split, your first post was in the one floating away with Obama and his kind and you're there posting so that they don't notice anything's awry. And your second post is here with us in the new magical universe!

Captain Hate

I didn't mean to imply that you believed it, Mel; particularly because you put quotes around it.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Rick Santelli and the unctuous pinhead Steve Liesman.
Fortunately for Liesman they were not in the same studio.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Let me add that it appears the CNBC website now no longer lists lumber futures, removing the last remaining reason I had to even visit the joint.

cathyf

Yeah, I just don't get it. The GOP should be repeating exactly one line:

This is what Mr. Obama wanted, this is exactly what he got, and the American people voted for it. In 2011, with Democrat Harry Reid controlling the Senate and Democrat Barack Obama controlling the presidency, this bill was the very best deal that the GOP could get for the country with these intransigent Democrats fighting back every inch of the way. The American people had a chance to vote for something better by voting for Mitt Romney, and by voting for Republican senators. Instead the American people voted for these senate Democrats and the Democrat president who passed this legislation and who want this legislation. The GOP can't rescue the US economy without the cooperation of the House, Senate AND president, and the Senate Democrats and the Democrat president don't want America to prosper and succeed.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Robert Samuelson on the bad faith Dems.

hit and run

Iggy:
the CNBC website now no longer lists lumber futures

The futures of 54 trees have been cut short.

Danube of Thought on IPad

TC, he will also get (iv) a recession.

Spending cuts first!--jimmyk

I think what many GOPers are missing is that the fiscal cliff is a plus for Obama.

It may be a plus for him, since he only thinks of himself, but it's bad for the Dems, as well as for the country, of course. I agree the GOP House should just pass a bill extending Bush tax rates, and let the Senate kill it or Barry veto it.

Janet

Wonderful, cathyf.

fdcol63

cathyf, exactly.

Clarice

Here's my take on it--he's a chicken shit blowhard. Stand your ground Congress. Bend on principle a bit if you need to to get a pragmatic result, but do not bend on what's really important:Cuts in spending and entitlement reform.

NK

Clarice-- the House Repubs don't even have to do that at this point. Pass a bill extending the rates for everyone. Separately Pass their budget, Obamacare repeal, and tax reform. Let BarryI veto the rate extension-- everyone's tax rates go up, plus the $50,000/year muddle start paying payroll taxes again-- OUCH for them. The debt Ceiling will be hit soon enough, At that point, let BarryI come back hat in hand for more debt to keep spending $3.5+TRILLLION/year.

Melinda Romanoff

Clarice-

If he blows it all off, and he's really, really good at this, who's going to enforce anything he does?

NK

PS: happy belated Birthday Clarice!

cathyf

Oh, and I think the House should send up one bill extending the Bush tax cuts for everyone, and another bill with entitlement reform, and let the Democrats stonewall them.

The spending cuts in sequestration? Go for it. So far they are the only spending cuts that the GOP has ever gotten the Democrats to vote for in many decades. I say start somewhere, and then constantly repeat that this was the best deal that the GOP could get from their weak position and if the people want different more rational spending cuts then they will have to get the Democrats that they voted for to go along with different more rational spending cuts.

Spending cuts first!--jimmyk

Instead the American people voted for these senate Democrats and the Democrat president who passed this legislation and who want this legislation.

They also voted for a Republican-controlled House. The media will successfully blame the Republicans for failing to "compromise." The House should pass a tax and spending bill that it deems appropriate, preferably one preserving the current rates and cutting spending, and at least force the Senate to act. Boehner should also emphasize that the Republicans wanted to cut taxes, not just leave them the same, and wanted to cut spending further, but compromised instead.

Clarice

Thanks, NK, (Also Cathyf last night after I went to bed)

BB Key

Who is going to Make Dingy Harry bring anything the House passes to the floor of the Senate ?

pagar

well said, cathyf!
--------------------------------------
From the thread's link.
". Many of the ornaments celebrate the Obama family dog, Bo, who seems to have become the First Family's favorite symbol of Christmas.

Who is paying for this insanity?
--------------------------------------------

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/12/03/why-is-the-obama-campaign-still-seeking-donations/

Why?

Spending cuts first!--jimmyk

I think the House should send up one bill extending the Bush tax cuts for everyone, and another bill with entitlement reform, and let the Democrats stonewall them.

Can the Republicans put together an entitlement reform bill in two weeks? I think they need to just preserve the current rates plus cut spending, and say that they will consider any tax increases once satisfactory entitlement reform (preferably including Obamacare repeal) has been passed.

NK

"Enforce anything he does": I'm not quite sure what that means. But if it means that letting the rates rise means that BarryI has more tax money and no constraints- I don't agree with that. The Debt Limit runs out, and atthat point Bam only has about $2.8T/year of actual tax revenue to spemd ($800B less tha he is spending now). How does Bam spend the money? What's that ?-- Turbo Timmie will issue T-Bills and Ben B will buy them? That is a constitutional fight that Barry, Timmie and Ben B would lose so badly, it will make your head spin.

Clarice

The Hill
___
ouse Republican leaders have made a counteroffer to President Obama in the fiscal cliff negotiations, proposing to cut $2.2 trillion with a combination of spending cuts, entitlement reforms and $800 billion in new tax revenue.

The leaders delivered the offer to the White House on Monday with a three-page letter signed by Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.), and four other senior Republicans, including Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the party’s just-defeated vice presidential nominee.


Republican officials said the offer was based on a proposal outlined by Erskine Bowles, the former chief of staff to President Bill Clinton, in testimony last year before the congressional “supercommittee” on deficit reduction. That offer is distinct from the widely-cited Simpson-Bowles deficit plan released two years ago.

hit and run

cathyf:
The GOP should be repeating exactly one line

FACT CHECK: The quote in question actually consists of 19 lines. However, that is on JOM and is blockquoted. In MS Word, with 12pt Times New Roman font and one inch left and right margins, it is nine lines. However, if the page is given a landscape orientation, the font size reduced to 2pt and the margins reduced to three-quarters of an inch, the quote does fit onto one line.

Therefore we rate the statement: True

Who knew that when cathyf set out to come up with a bumper sticker, it would end up being 135 words? Unexpectedly! ;)

I keed because I love.

maryrose

cathyf:
Well said!
NK: Brilliant!
I am with clarice on this. Call his bluff. Remember according to Bammy,he doesn't bluff.

NK

Clarice@3:19- smart move by House Repubs. Use Clinton Chief of staff proposal-- Lefty Bam says no. Then pass the rate extension for everyone. Harry reid doesn't permit a Senate vote-- rates go up for everybody, and debt limit still runs out soon enough.

cathyf
Who knew that when cathyf set out to come up with a bumper sticker, it would end up being 135 words? Unexpectedly! ;)
Yeah, yeah, like I could ever write a bumper sticker that would fit on a vehicle smaller than an aircraft carrier!
maryrose

Can't wait to hear Bammy start trashing the counter-offer.
Just this morning on Squawk Box Steve McMahon{dem operator} was saying "Where's the Republican plan? Well here it is Obummer.

Melinda Romanoff

NK-

It forces default, his ultimate goal.

cathyf
But if it means that letting the rates rise means that BarryI has more tax money and no constraints- I don't agree with that. The Debt Limit runs out, and atthat point Bam only has about $2.8T/year of actual tax revenue to spemd ($800B less tha he is spending now).
I agree with that. Part of the problem here is that the GOP is simply conceding the notion that all of the assorted ObamaTaxes will bring in any significant amounts of revenue. As a firm believer in math, I say that we shouldn't worry about that.

The other thing that the House needs to focus on is making lists of the ObamaCrony programs and writing and passing bills prohibiting federal spending on those things. Then when Harry Reid doesn't even let them come to a vote, harp on them endlessly, "Harry Reid and Barack Obama needed to pay off their cronies with X, Y and Z, and that's where the money for the social security checks and military pay went."

maryrose

cathyf;
You are on a roll. Your ideas are great. The republicans need you as a paid consultant. Paging Eric Cantor...

MarkO

By the way, They are coming for your free speech. It might get in the way.

maryrose

Sue;
From other thread. My son loves the Dallas Cowboys. We even got him a football and a starter Cowboys jacket for Christmas one year. Everytime they win he gets all excited. Even when they beat the Browns.

Jane - Mock the media

Who is paying for this insanity?

Now Pagar, his personal expenses last year were only $1.4 billion. (which is tax refunds for 200,200,000.people) So what on earth are you complaining about.

Clarice

I have first dibs on cahtyf.

cathyf

I want "ObamaCrony" to enter the language just like "Obamacare"

(And I won't even complain if it's spelled Obamacrony. And have long ago given up the spelling as ObamaCare.)

narciso

O fahrfegnugen;

http://patterico.com/2012/12/03/im-just-speculating-this-could-be-wingnut-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-1121359

remember that the culprit is actually that well known 'Lutheran' Aldosary, native of Iraq

squaredance

Thus, the GOP focus should not be seeking a good faith compromise, because Obama is not acting in good faith. The whole focus of the GOP should be setting the stage for Obama to be held accountable for what happens.

Hahaha...stop it, you are killing me...seriously.

NK

"Default" on what? FY 2013 federal interest payments will total about $400B. Fed tax receipts (when we fall off the cliff) will be about $2.8T. That leave $2.4 trillion to run the fed Gov't on after interest payments (interest payments get priority, they constitutionally mandated). So what default?

cathyf

Well, NK, if the Obamacronies get paid more than $2.4 trillion, then there won't be $400B left to pay off the interest on the debt...

More seriously, interest rates are at about 1/10th the level that they were 25 years ago. If the inflation from the ObamaBucks causes interest rates to go up by a factor of 10, then that's $4 trillion in interest that we need to come up with each year.

NK

ZeroHedge claims WE HAVE ARRIVED! The Fed Gov't is at the statutory debt limit 103% of GDP-- when BarryI came in debt was 75% of GDP. NO MORE DEBT-- No increase, let the Fed Gov't get by spending $400B on interest and $2.4Trillion for everything else. That's it. http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/11-2/total%20debt%20to%20gdp.jpg

narciso

An interesting insight that I gleaned from my Renaissance studies, suggests that the influence
of the Ikwan, is more important then which ever
Saudi prince rules the roost, however some of these figures, still have wider influence, here
and in neighboring countries to the kingdom, too much attention, has been put on Prince Talal, and his associate bin Mansour, where other influences have similar influences;

Thomas Collins

Jimmyk, in response to your question at 3:10 PM as to whether the GOP can put together an entitlement reform bill in two weeks, my guess is that they have already had their legislative drafting staffers put something together. Thus, they wouldn't be starting from scratch. If anyone more familiar with the federal legislative process thinks I am wrong, let us know.

NK

Actually Cathy F-- IMO, when the inflation comes, BenB has no intention to raise rates-- he'll let the inflation run out to soak up all the Fed and housing debt by reducing the 'real' amount of the debt. Of course, gasoline will be $50/gal and a loaf of bread $25, but Ben B doesn't seem to mind that much.

pagar

To clarify why some voted for democrats.

http://www.conservativedailynews.com/2012/12/why-some-people-voted-democrat/

I still can't understand why any American would vote for a Democrat.

Sue

Maryrose,

Everytime they win he gets all excited. Even when they beat the Browns.

What a smart son you have. ::grin::

narciso

This references comes from a Shoebat piece, referring an event back in 2009;


His Royal Highness Prince Mamdouh bin Abdul Aziz accompanied the family of U.S. President Barack Obama in his palace in Jeddah after the performance of the Hajj this year. The event was attended by His Royal Highness Prince Faisal bin Thamer bin Abdul Aziz, and His Royal Highness Prince Abdul Aziz Bin Mamdouh Bin Abdul Aziz, and his HRH Prince Abdullah bin Nayef bin Abdul Aziz, and a number of other princes and officials.

the apocryphal comments of one Saudi official,
in Lacey's Inside the Kingdom, re the hopes for Obama circa the inagguration, before he
refused,

centralcal

Chad Pergram ‏@ChadPergram

White House basically rejects House GOP offer out of hand on the #fiscalcliff

NK

Over the Cliff-- No new debt.....

NK

... Pass a tax rate extension bill NOW, re-pass the budget... after the 1st of the year, pass tax reform... then wait for BarryI to come back asking for more debt... make him ask pretty please.

cathyf
IMO, when the inflation comes, BenB has no intention to raise rates-- he'll let the inflation run out to soak up all the Fed and housing debt by reducing the 'real' amount of the debt. Of course, gasoline will be $50/gal and a loaf of bread $25, but Ben B doesn't seem to mind that much.
But the duration of the government's debt is very short. As low-interest bonds mature, who will buy the new bonds if the interest rates won't come close to covering expected inflation?

The problem with the inflation rate is that it is being hidden by the economy being in the toilet. If the economy comes out of the toilet (which is necessary to bring in any more tax revenue) then the already-printed Bernanke-Bucks are going to blow up the interest payments. The only way to get ahead of that game is hyper-inflation.

Note that's the BernankeBucks that have already been printed.

Gus

Any news on Benghazi or Fast and Furious??

This debt cliff shit isn't cutting it for me folks. Obama is a clown. It's obvious.

cathyf

More and more I feel like that scene in The Hunt For Red October where Capt Tupolev fixes the Konovalov's torpedo so that it can't be called off, and then the Red October maneuvers so that this torpedo is locked on to the Konovalov. And in the split second that they all realize that they are doomed, the first officer turns to Tupolev and says, You arrogant ass. You've killed us.

NK

CathyF asks: "But the duration of the government's debt is very short. As low-interest bonds mature, who will buy the new bonds if the interest rates won't come close to covering expected inflation?" Very true-- but if the bonds are being replaced with dollar denominated bonds that have a 'real' value of say 33% less because of the debased currency, the higher %rate demanded by the bond buyers is 'affordable'. Of course this sort of inflation and currency debasement kills consumers who see their commodity buying power slashed-- but BenB seems to have a lot of tolerance for that.

narciso

I have a patent on that line, Cathy,

You could just turn to the LOC report around pg 40, General and one gets a more substantial briefing


http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-12-03/terror-groups-in-africa-work-with-al-qaeda-general-says

NK

PS-- US Bonds already are paying negative real interest rates.

cathyf

But if the economy is still in the toilet, the tax revenues aren't going up, and if the interest rate demanded is 35% rather than 1/2 of 1%, then that $400 billion in interest payments goes up to $2.8 trillion -- consuming every penny of tax receipts.

Janet

Any news on Benghazi or Fast and Furious??

Or where the Pigford money went? Or who set Sarah Palin's church on fire? How bout Fannie & Freddie?...& the housing loan debacle? Anyone have to pay for that? Where's Corzine? Where's John F'n Kerry's boat docked now?

So many questions....no answers. We're movin' FORWARD...or FOWARD...or FORWARD!

cathyf

Right now we are already at a point where our very low inflation is the average of everything-we-buy-going-up-in-price and everything-we-own-going-down-in-value.

I was there when Reagan held firm and wrung out the Nixon-Ford-Carter stagflation. It hurt very badly, and looked to me about what the polity would tolerate. It looks to my like the necessary pain now is several orders of magnitude larger, and the population's tolerance several orders of magnitude smaller.

When push comes to shove, these assholes who voted for Obama will sell out all of our freedoms for a crust of bread.

...and they won't even get their crusts...

narciso

Of course, this piece at least examines, the reason why Grindler, is leaving;


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/03/holder-chief-staff-to-leave-post/

NK

CathyF-- i'm the last person to ask to defend BenB's insane Debt binge, -- because it's insane-- but as of today Spain 10year Bonds trade at 5.25%-- 3 times the rate of US Bonds, but not 35%-- or anything like that. The US super inflation will come, but if there is US growth, bond buyers may very well buy at <5%. I wouldn't bet on it, but I'm not the Fed Chairman.

Danube of Thought on IPad

I guess I'll just sit and laugh as nothing is done about entitlement reform. After all, I'll be among those hurt most by it. I'd like to see it done because it's in the country's best interest, but as long as they insist on giving me stuff I don't really need, who am I to complain?

Living well is the best revenge.

Danube of Thought on IPad

Unexpected:

"Stocks are closed lower on Wall Street after a surprisingly weak manufacturing report heightened concern that fiscal deadlock in Washington is already hurting the economy." (AP)

narciso

And in the great tradition of promoting Bacchus and Camp, to leadership;

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2965266/posts

Clarice

NEWSER) – With fiscal cliff negotiations going, in John Boehner's words, "nowhere," Republicans are considering what ABC News correspondent Jon Karl calls a "doomsday" contingency plan. Under the plan—which Karl's sources say "is becoming the most likely scenario"—the House would approve extending the middle class Bush tax cuts, but would agree to absolutely nothing else before the holiday recess, leaving President Obama to face massive spending cuts and another debt ceiling showdown as soon as Congress returned.

In other fiscal cliff news:

Nancy Pelosi is threatening to use a maneuver called the "discharge petition" to bring the Senate's already-passed bill averting the cliff to the House floor whether Boehner likes it or not, CNN reports. Pelosi would then need to woo a handful of Republicans to her side to actually pass the bill.


Clarice

WWhoopee my new Williams sonoma catalogue arrived--should I buy the pot for fermenting my own sauerkraut? It's just under $80 plus S & H?
Hmm

Tough decision.

NK

ABC's Jon Karl stumbles upon the reality. NO MORE MONEY!! NO MORE DEBT!!! pay as you go. In the UK, the BoE tries something novel-- the bosses tell the truth. Our grandkids will be paying off this this debt, and have dramatically reduced living standards. Do you think those bastards BarryI, Geithner, Reid and Pelosi dare tell that truth about the debt they created: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242421/Andrew-Haldane-Bank-bosss-view-financial-crisis-left-debt-paid-grandchildren.html

Captain Hate

I definitely steer clear of sentences with the words "Pelosi" and "discharge".

NK

CaptH@618-- heh!

Clarice

We could have a JOM fermented cabbage stamping if I can get a big enough crock for it.

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