And We Hear From The Pro-Death Side...

The NY Times delivers a takes a blast at pregnancy centers, which offer an alternative to the Times vision of abortions for all. Sadly, they can't (or don't want to) quote a single prominent liberal in favor of this implementation of "safe, legal and rare":

Pregnancy Centers Gain Influence in Anti-Abortion Arena

By PAM BELLUCK

WACO, Tex. — With free pregnancy tests and ultrasounds, along with diapers, parenting classes and even temporary housing, pregnancy centers are playing an increasingly influential role in the anti-abortion movement. While most attention has focused on scores of new state laws restricting abortion, the centers have been growing in numbers and gaining state financing and support.

Largely run by conservative Christians, the centers say they offer what Roland Warren, head of Care Net, one of the largest pregnancy center organizations, described as “a compassionate approach to this issue.”

As they expand, they are adding on-call or on-site medical personnel and employing sophisticated strategies to attract women, including Internet search optimization and mobile units near Planned Parenthood clinics.

Internet search optimization? What's next, using Hollywood doctors in ads? Ooops.

The story is totally one-sided in its finding of flaws. For example:

Abortion rights advocates have long called some of their approaches deceptive or manipulative. Medical and other experts say some dispense scientifically flawed information, exaggerating abortion’s risks.

Jean Schroedel, a Claremont Graduate University politics professor, said that “there are some positive aspects” to centers, but that “things pregnant women are told at many of these centers, some of it is really factually suspect.”

I suspect that somewhere a pro-life advocate has criticized abortion providers for presenting slanted information. That suspicion is not addressed by the Times. However, if we flash back to an Emily Bazelon contribution to the Times from 2010, we learn that abortion providers are embattled victims of the pro-life movement who are fighting back heroically. A bit of flavor:

In many ways, the clinics were a rebel-sister success story. Instead of a sterile and expensive hospital operating room, patients could go to a low-cost clinic with pastel walls and sympathetic staff members. At a Planned Parenthood I visited recently in Rochester, while women were having abortions, they could look at photos of a Caribbean beach, taped above them on the ceiling.

Nearly heaven!

And here is a Times classic:

Other claims include long-term psychological effects. The Care Net brochure says that “many women experience initial relief,” but that “women should be informed that abortion significantly increases risk for” clinical depression, suicidal thoughts and behavior, post-traumatic stress disorder and other problems. An American Psychological Association report found no increased risk from one abortion.

Do tell. The Guttmacher Institute, a credible pro-choice operation, summarized the APA as follows:

There is no credible evidence that abortion, in and of itself, causes subsequent mental health problems for most women, according to a major report released August 12, 2008, by a task force of the American Psychological Association (APA).

...

The task force draws no conclusions with respect to the mental health of teenagers following abortion, observing that the few studies on that subject suffered from methodological flaws such as small sample sizes, high attrition rates or exclusion of certain groups of teens in a way that could bias the results. It suggests that positive associations between multiple abortions and poorer mental health "may be linked to co-occurring risks that predispose a woman to both multiple unwanted pregnancies and mental health problems."

I can't guess how the Times missed the qualifications about teenagers and multiple abortions. They were careful enough to write "no increased risk from one abortion", but the mathematically-minded will note that having one abortion greatly increases the risk (in fact, it is a pre-condition) for having multiple abortions.

In the interest of fairness and balance the Times does include this in their final paragraph:

All Waco clients [at the pregnancy center] receive nonreligious “options counseling” from volunteers, staff or a licensed counselor who had an abortion.

Planned Parenthood’s building looks like the medical clinic it is. It distributes information on prenatal care and adoption, among other things, but does not offer emotional counseling. “We’re our patients’ medical provider,” said Katie Wolfe, the health educator, “not their emotional support.”

Amanda Hall met Care Net’s definition of “abortion-vulnerable.” Twenty-five, pregnant with her second child, her husband in jail, she was facing eviction.

Although uncomfortable about abortion, she checked “undecided,” saying, “I can’t support two kids.”

Care Net let her stay in a house Ms. McGregor owns, found her a job, negotiated debt payment plans, offered Bible study and other classes. She gave birth in March.

“Everybody here,” she said, was “like a different family.”

The Times covers this as though it is a bad thing. Well, I am sure they think it is.

MORE: Deception in the court room, from the pro-choice side.

Comments

[daddy]

Captain, or anyone,

Is a second NFL game about to start over there?

[Captain Hate]

Yes daddy. It will start at 8 by royal edict of King Roger.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--When I used to do college radio programming, there was a guy from the local art institute who had a show before mine...--

Boy that brings back memories.
In the early 80s I used to listen to a DJ at KDVS the radio station of UC Davis. He went by the handle Peter the Clutching Hand, the actual name of a gangster that David Brinkley interviewed one time.
The guy was hilarious and played excellent punk and new wave, always starting his show off with Shake Some Action by the Flaming Groovies.
Funniest thing, was he was studying to be a petroleum engineer and every so often some typical Davis pinko would call up and he'd have the poor dope in tears with a little applied science.

[daddy]

Thanks.

Over here (Taiwan) it is just coming up on 9 in the morning and all TV has had on so far is a Pool Tournament and the Australian Major League Baseball All Star game. Pretty thin stuff.

Hopefully I can find the NFL game.

[bgates]

Any story in which Penn Jillette gets taken down a peg is aces in my book

Hm. Well, there are reasons to dislike anybody; here's something that raised my opinion of Penn Jillette considerably. He makes an indisputable factual error in there, and of course since he's an atheist he has a very important disagreement with a number of us; but for an atheist - and I think especially for a celebrity atheist - to have the attitude towards Christian proselytizing that Jillette displays here is remarkable.

[Captain Hate]

I loved the Flaming Groovies; I think I wore the grooves off of Teenage Head.

[pagar]

Daddy,
It is my belief that when leftists see an opportunity to make a dream come true they will take it.

" but for a Lefty against drilling it is a dream delivered on a silver platter:"

Thanks to your links I at least know what is published in them but that's all I know about the incident.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Someday I'm going to mention a musician or group the Cap'n doesn't know.
Until then, cheers Cap, for your narciso like mental catalog. :)

[cathyf]

A group of 46 House Democrats released a statement Thursday saying they want answers from the Coast Guard and the Interior Department about the rig incident.

I suppose they don't want to hear that the answer is that the government and environutsies stalled Shell again and that's why they were moving the rig in December. If they had started in May rather than mid-September, they would have pulled the rig out of there months ago.

[Captain Hate]

Thanks Iggy for that high praise but we have some others here that are hard to stump; Mel is the obvious choice but matt has an amazing internal jukebox. And Porch is pretty good for a young'un. Apologies to anybody I've inadvertently omitted beyond my obvious choices.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

All true Cap but only Porch seems to cross as many genres as you do and she doesn't really count because;
1. She's too young to be a know it all and,
2. She's just a girl. :)

[Captain Hate]

Troo dat, Iggy; and you're being pretty modest yourownself.

[Stephanie]

Obscure punk bands of the 80s? Swimming Pool Ques .

kudos if anyone knows them . used to play the Atlanta Arts Festival back in the day .

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--to have the attitude towards Christian proselytizing that Jillette displays here is remarkable--

First saw that years ago and am still struck by it.
I'm of the opinion that before he is dead he will know where the Psalms are and more importantly Who wrote them.

His voice is mine as a lad who knew to a certainty what he knew but wasn't satisfied that what he knew was actually the Truth.

[Captain Hate]

Since the topic is music, when Mel weighs in I want to know if he's seen drummer Mike Reed around his fair town. Some of his discs are *really* good. http://mikereedmusic.com/about.cfm

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Troo dat, Iggy; and you're being pretty modest yourownself.

Posted by: Captain Hate | January 05, 2013 at 08:17 PM --

Not hardly.
Like most autodidacts I know a very little about a lot and a lot about very little.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Geez, my heat has stopped working.

Sheesh!

[centralcal]

Oh dear, Jane. My heat is working, and I am still cold.

[Captain Hate]

Ouch Jane; does whoever installed your heater have an emergency line? I called mine on New Years eve a couple years ago when the same happened and something went askew on the sensor for the vent for the exhaust gases not being detected as opened. He had to do a temporary workaround but it kept the heat on. Amazingly it didn't cost as obscene of an amount as I was fearing.

Otherwise start draining the pipes.

[peter]

I misread that as my heart, and almost called 911, except I have no idea where you are or how you could still type if your heart stopped.

[bgates]

I misread that as my heart

Me too. Made my heat skip a bear, I can tell you.

[Threadkiller]

TK's Online Heater Repair...

How may I assist you?

[narciso]

So Scott Shane, is going to pretend he had nothing to with Kirikaou's crime, and Hagel is really proving he is quite a jackass,

[Threadkiller]

Start here to see the clunker engine killing procedure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IcIxhd8ks

Here it is on a pretty clean Volvo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo

Plenty more on YouTube.

[matt]

That rig is a special arctic rig, which was built to withstand the most dangerous and harsh conditions on the planet. I would think it is double hulled using some very serious engineering. The guys who build this stuff are good.

Remember, though. It is a rig. Not a ship. There shouldn't be a lot of fuel or POL on board except diesel to run it. which should have been offloaded before moving it.

Petroleum engineers typically have checklists 100 pages long before doing this stuff and it's real easy for CG weenies and Congressmen to start throwing turds.

It's a lousy situation, but hopefully the guys with slide rules prevail.

[Jane on Ipad]

I called. For $250.00 they will come at 11 tonite or 8 AM tomorrow. I opted for tomorrow. Thank goodness for heated mattress pads. I swear I have never had a heating problem that didn't happen on the weekend.

[Jane on Ipad]

TK,

It's propane and the engine is working so it's some part according to the guy.

[Threadkiller]

Silly question:

You didn't run out of propane, did you?

[Threadkiller]

If you can see the furnace cabinet I can give you some ideas.

[narciso]

Subterfuge is always the name of the game, with this crew, in the LUN, some new details about Benghazi

[Jane on Ipad]

I didn't run out of propane, and he told me 2 things it could be, neither of which I had a clue. I'll wait it out TK, because you will be speaking a language I don't understand. But I appreciate the offer.

[Threadkiller]

No problem Jane. If he concludes it is a "rollout" switch please have him make sure the "heat exchanger" has no cracks in it.

He probably will, but I can't stress it enough myself.

The switches(usually 3 of them) almost always detect a problem that needs to be addressed.

I won't get any more technical than saying I want to make sure you are safe.

[Jane on Ipad]

Thanks TK. Never thought about not being safe.o

[cathyf]

Jane, we got a new furnace 2 months ago. Hubby left the door unlocked for them, and when I came home that night the first thing that I noticed was that our old thermostat and the controls for a long-defunct dehumidifier were gone -- leaving two rather gaping holes in the plaster surrounded by the remains of the hideous wallpaper that once graced my dining room. (I knew about the wallpaper -- the neighbors have stories of stripping it off.) And a brand new thermostat, about 2 feet higher on the wall -- apparently there is some standard about wall heights. Except that the brand new thermostat is blank and dark. I went downstairs to see the old oil furnace neatly stacked against the basement wall, and the new gas furnace up on blocks, with the rusted battered remains of the old plenum on the other side of the room, and a big gap between the furnace and the duct work. No note, no phone call, no sign of when they were coming back!

Fortunately it only got down in the 30s that night, and we LIKE it to be 50 in the house. And they came out the next morning and finished the job (it was more complicated than they expected...) But then they left the new thermostat set at a normal-people temp, and we had to open the windows when we came home!

[Clarice]

Phew--I thought Jane said she had lost her head...I've been doing a lot of reading online and my eyes are tired. Bundle up, girl!

[narciso]

I imagine they parceled this off to Hoagland but it's still too naive,

http://pjmedia.com/barryrubin/2013/01/03/the-ultimate-settlements-are-not-the-problem-article/?singlepage=true

[Melinda Romanoff]

Jane-

About that furnace, one quick indicator for TK and I. Has there ever been any painting done near that furnace? A glance at the floor for drips will tell you, and a guess to their age versus the age of the furnace would help.

And yes, it's important for your safety.

[narciso]

Well this is dissapointing, I guess the rectification requires it,

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/05/mcchrystal-takes-blame-for-rolling-stone-article/?intcmp=trending

[Melinda Romanoff]

CH-

I don't know Mr. Reed, but he's a brave soul taking winter pics at the lakefront. I'll ask around to my promoter friends for indications.

[narciso]

Well everyone is entitled to their own delusions;

http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/05/24-cast-member-janeane-garofalo-show-was-ploy-to-frighten-public-of-a-hillary-presidency/

[narciso]

Treacher, comes up with things that make you say hm;

Why aren't you in jail? RT @davidgregory RT @meetthepress: SUNDAY: @davidgregory will talk with Sen. Mitch McConnell on #MTP

[sean]

I'm kind of glad abortion means there won't be a second generation of people this stupid. I can't tell you the disgust and horror I felt when my own mother offered to help my wife get and abortion, even though we both planned for and wanted our now healthy and happy child.
Abortion is not a blessing to womankind and an advancement of feminism, it is a grim and somber medical necessity in rare cases, and a disgusting form of contraception by murder in most.
Watch an ultrasound and tell me your child is not alive.

[narciso]

I didn't think sports coverage could get as byzantine as political coverage (yes the irony strikes me)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8813105/2013-nfl-playoffs-jim-irsay-big-gambles-indianapolis-colts

[narciso]

'All Animals are equal, some are more equal then others;

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/driver_unknown/

[Clarice]

The left says the right has a war on science, Jane. It's exactly backwards.This week I Starting with Al -TV and ending with Ringing Bros' victory in Court.

It's time to take a closer look at who's trying to keep us from exploiting our shale gas and clipping the wings of those ever more noxious "non profit public interest groups".

[Have Blue]

Bill Mumy has been in the music scene for a while. When they were making Babylon 5 it became a plot point.

[Clarice]

Bardot didn't take care of herself at all--her skin is like leather from over sunning--and well, she's a mess. I think Anita Ekberg did the same thing. But that was unnecessary--they'd still be very attractive had they been more attentive.

[Melinda Romanoff]

The easiest lesson from Chicago politicians is this. If they say in a campaign speech "We're not gonna...", that is precisely what they meant to do first, when elected. When they accuse their opponents "They mean to take away....", it's precisely what they themselves are going to do first.

And so on ....

Next time Durbin speaks, just edit his words this way and you'll know precisely what they intend.

G'night all.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Not to be too precise about it....

[narciso]

When Soros's own Wurlitzer, The Think Regress are funded in part by Arabian pockets, I've pointed out that Arianna is even more explicitly hypocritical about the matter, as her divorce stake, came her portion of the Humble Oil fortune

[narciso]

Yes, he' got his own category there;

http://www.last.fm/music/Bill+Mumy

[Danube of Thought iPad]

I know several women who have had abortions, including one whose aborted child would have been mine.

Perhaps for this reason I have a very difficult time drawing bright lines on the issue, and can never be very certain that whatever views I hold are correct.

[narciso]

It seems the Times is clueless on many issues, but they are very plain about they are doing here, as with the treatment of interrogation, in ZD 30, some threads back, they want to proclude
consideration of any possible alternative to abortion, the parallepsis of politicians is not limited to Chicago, when Clinton said 'safe, legal and rare, he meant quite the opposite,

[Have Blue]

Was once talking with a woman friend (well drinking and talking) when the conversation turned through philosophy through 'meaning of life' type stuff. Mused about a what if we had never been born scenario. (Not connected with abortion at all.) She reacted very negatively, almost violently (did I say we were drinking?)

Turned out she had had an abortion when in her late teens because her husband at the time did not think they were ready for kids. (He was ten years older than her.)

You can't tell me that it did not have lasting effect on her even fifteen years later.

[daddy]

More settled Science:

Study shows Alaska got colder from 2000-2010

The overwhelming majority of Alaska is getting colder and has been since 2000, according to a study by researchers with the Geophysical Institute at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. But the authors stop short of saying the lower temperatures contradict that idea that the earth, and Alaska in particular, is warming. Instead, they conclude that the findings show a temporary variation.

How do they come up with it only being a temporary variation? Beats me.

The report notes previous cooling periods, including a span of some 30 years that began in the 1940s, and says it is too early to decide whether the widespread Alaska cooling trend "is a climatic shift" or merely a blip. Its summary reads: "The long term observed warming of Alaska of about twice the global value. . . . is sometimes temporarily modified or even reversed by natural decadal variations."

The authors acknowledge, however, that the overall statewide drop of 2.34 degrees is a lot for one decade.

So it's never happened before, but the researchers are certain that it's only a blip or a temporary variation. Got it.

[Porchlight]

Thanks for that Jillette link, bgates. I had not seen it. I'll give him several points for that.

And thanks Cap'n/Iggy for the compliments.

I do know who the Swimming Pool Ques are! They opened for Lou Reed on the New Sensations tour. They were on DB Records along with a band called Zeitgeist out of Austin (later called The Reivers). I dated the songwriter from that band (at that time defunct, now reunited) just before I moved down to Austin, and hung out with a good friend of his just this evening. Small world.

Flamin' Groovies - Teenage Head should be required listening for everyone between 15-25.

[rse]

Clarice-war by other means is definitely the preferred technique these days. And media and education both get grouped as part of the communication strategy if you are a statist schemer.

The nonprofits have become a menace. Some like Model T have been from the moment they were set up. I have some of the Philanthropy Roundtable reports on education initiatives and they are bad enough.

Two points-you would enjoy the book Higher Superstition.

Secondly, when the Reese Commission looked into the foundations in the 50s there were supposedly death threats if the investigation was not shut down. Before it was shut down though reputable testimony that remains to my knowledge unchallenged was that the assumption was that the US would lose the Cold War and that was what was being prepared for.

I have an interview with Ralph Tyler toward the end of his life that corroborates that. He wistfully mentions that "they" thought Communism would prevail.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Great Pieces Clarice!

It's 52 degrees in my house as I wait for the heat guy. Fresh snow on the ground. TK I will remember the roll-out switch and heat exchanger. Thanks again.

[Clarice]

Good morning, JOM! Here's today's screed:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/01/the_democrats_war_on_science_aids_our_enemies.html

[centralcal]

Yay - it's great to have Clarice's Pieces back for Sunday morning reading.

[Clarice]

Thanks!

Hope you get heat soon, Jane. Maybe a little vodka in your coffee until the repairman comes will help.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Repairman here. It's something called the "glow switch". Someone please wake up TC and tell him.

Brrrrrrrrrr

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

Is a "glow switch" also called an "ignitor"?

About a $20-$40 part typically, and very prone to failure.

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

Hot Surface ignitor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aNytKk7ru0

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

TK, I mean. So no worries TK?

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

No worries, Jane. That was our first stop on our online diagnostic tour last night. Very common problem.

Back to bed for me. It was a nyquil night.

Get warm!

:-)

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

Our first stop besides checking for propane, I should say.

;-)

[Jack is Back]

Jane,

Glow switch is the igniter for a LP gas heating furnance. It converts the 110v to 4 to 9 volts which in turn provides a high temperature "glow" versus flame which after the fuel valve engages provides ignition to the gas. They can be problematic due to numerous reasons but are easily replaced. You should soon be warm as a church mouse.

Have a very warm day:)

[Jack is Back]

Sorry, Didn't see TK's post. But is always nice to know you can more than one opinion and both basically the same result:)

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I thought TK was an auto mechanic. He's starting to sound like an HVAC guy.
A mechanic would have called it a glow plug.:)

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

SO it's not something I could have fixed, right? (Up to 56 degrees - feels like summer)

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Excellent Pieces, Clarice.
What Ringling Bros did to the ASPCA I intend to do to my delightful brother.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

After Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer the Senator I loathe the most is Chris Van Hollen. He is one lying piece of shit with the most obnoxious smile while he does it.

[narciso]

He does share that oily grifter, mien, with those other two, but he is also an tentitled member of the Arabist clique, like Gwenith
'Sweeney' Todd;

Van Hollen was born in Karachi, Pakistan, the oldest of three children of American parents Edith Eliza (née Farnsworth) and Christopher Van Hollen.[1][2] His father was a Foreign Service officer who served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs (1969–72) and U.S. Ambassador to Sri Lanka (1972–76); and his mother worked in the Central Intelligence Agency and the State Department, where she served as chief of the intelligence bureau for South Asia.[3][4] He also lived in Turkey, India, and Sri Lanka.[3] He returned to the United States for his junior year of high school, and attended the Middlesex School in Concord, Massachusetts, where his grandfather once taught.[3]

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Flamin' Groovies - Teenage Head should be required listening for everyone between 15-25.--

I agree with Mick Jagger that it's better than Sticky Fingers, which I actually consider fairly faint praise.

[Janet]

from Clarice's Pieces - "Of course, it's not just Arab money outright that's involved. Big companies are engaged in this disinformation campaign as well. LMVH's Tag Heuer is running expensive ads featuring Leonardo Dicaprio, bragging of its green building programs and contributions to the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC), a foe of fracking."

2 things.
This is anecdotal, but when I'm in high end stores here in the DC area most of the customers are middle eastern. Bloomingdales out at Tyson's Corner.
Also when we visited Naomi in Lugano, Switz....it was mostly middle eastern people shopping at the really high end stores.

The other thing is that environmentalism is DiCaprio's religion. It was another Parade article that I remembered, but this one has some of the same points. Some bits -

'I Want To Stand For Something'

"Looking for meaning beyond movies, DiCaprio got passionately involved in trying to help save the Earth. He first learned about global warming from former Vice President Al Gore."

"“This is so much more important than anything,” he says. “I began to understand the huge crisis facing the human race. But we can feed all the starving people on the Earth, take care of the sick, and sustain the planet we’ve inherited. And if it happens, won’t it be amazing? Stopping the destruction? I get overwhelmed just talking about it!”"

It is his religion.

[Melinda Romanoff on Kindle]

Jane-

You probably could have swapped out the part, but getting your hands on it without a license and proof of bonding (if MA reg's are anything like IL and I suspect they were copied by both).

[Melinda Romanoff on Kindle]

Clarice-

I see your creative juices have been earning interest on your break. Very nice encapsulation of the NGO games.

[narciso]

NRDC, which is headed by Robert Kennedy's 'red headed stepchild, is part of the Soros archipelago,' as we see here;

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=589

they wage a Chtluthu like on every institution,

[sbw]

DoT: can never be very certain that whatever views I hold are correct.

I concur. Which is why I believe the Feds should butt out and leave individual choice as personal choice.

I also believe that while one cannot know if life is sacred, one can appreciate why it should be treated reverently. That means we need to care better for, and hold parents accountable for the quality of life of, unwanted children.

[Rick Ballard]

That's right SBW, we sure shouldn't object to the taking of human life when there's a possibility that we might be relieved of the consequences of voluntary actions. The implications are such that one would be forced to believe that every choice we make has meaning - we certainly don't want to go down that road. It's much better to continue to slaughter the entirely innocent rather than even think about it.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Wow Narc, I had no idea.

[narciso]

That's I'm here for, and the autism gambit, the
crusade againsr voter fraud,

[Janet]

one cannot know if life is sacred,

I totally disagree.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Which is why I believe the Feds should butt out and leave individual choice as personal choice.--

What say we wait until one of the individuals involved in the choice, the one with the most at stake, can make his or her wishes known in the matter?

Isn't that the most reverential way of treating life and isn't being given the choice of whether one lives or dies the most important individual choice there is and the first and most important unalienable right our country was founded on?

[rse]

Clarice-in the book I wrote about in Friday's LUN post that talks about using English and other classes to break down the sense of self, there was one student described whose cultural belief system Fecho treated as sacred. Not to be disrupted.

Would you like to guess?

I have had the same thought when I read the Interfaith documents or Csik's views in Flow on religion and spirituality. You strip out the parts that make no sense. Of course what is left is then prime for being taken over by the school to create a staist value system.

And suddenly we are back in the business of promoting salvation by political action. Cause that one worked out so well in the past.

[Stephanie]

wow, porch . really small world . loved the cues back then .

[fdcol63]

Abortions are 100% fatal .... to the "chosen".

[Porchlight]

I also believe that while one cannot know if life is sacred,

I don't hold that one cannot know, but even if one can't, shouldn't one err on the side of life, just in case?

[Porchlight]

Which is why I believe the Feds should butt out and leave individual choice as personal choice.

Don't like murder? Don't kill anyone.

Don't like slavery? Don't enslave anyone.

Don't like robbery? Don't steal anything.

[Clarice]

Thanks, again..

Janet, you bet the high end merchandiers do a lot of business with Middle Easterners but I still believe that stores like SFA and Niewman Marcus and Bloomingdales have remained viable because of middle class buyers of cologne and ties and scarves--that is, the next level down merchandise by big names--and that business is drying up under Obama's "redistribution". Wintour can dance with the Arab loving brands who advertise in her rag, but the retailers themselves should not.

[sbw]

Rick, I can appreciate the skill of your presentation even when it is asserted in oversimplification. :-)

The point I have made from time to time, is that if abortion is to be outlawed, then those who would outlaw it need to do a much better job of assuring quality of life for unwanted offspring -- better than passing an ineffective law mandating parents take care of unwanted children.

And, Janet, I'm sure you know life is sacred and I would not attempt to pry that belief from you. But no one can faith faith into someone else.

[Porchlight]

The point I have made from time to time, is that if abortion is to be outlawed, then those who would outlaw it need to do a much better job of assuring quality of life for unwanted offspring

Why?

Do those that believe you have a right to life need to do a much better job of assuring your quality of life?

Did abolitionists need to do a much better job of assuring the quality of life of liberated slaves?

This is a common line of thinking that I do not accept at all. Either the unborn child has a right to life, or it doesn't. If you think it doesn't, then fine. Don't cloak the issue in bullcarp about how those who believe it does, have a special responsibility to take care of those children who are allowed to live.

Unless you also believe that government, having secured the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, needs to do a much better job of assuring that its citizens are actually happy?

[Janet]

those who would outlaw it need to do a much better job of assuring quality of life for unwanted offspring

???? Where does that decree come from? You don't know if life is sacred but you know that offspring should be assured some undefined "quality of life"?
It is impossible to assure "quality of life" for anybody...wanted or not.
What are you even basing your opinions on? If even whether killing an innocent is okay or not is unknowable...then how can you know that "quality of life" is important...or even what that term would encompass?

[Rick Ballard]

Janet,

We should appoint panels of experts to properly determine the application of the Singer-Mengele Quality of Life standard prior to allowing completion of gestation.

It's the only path to true happiness.

Ask the Carthaginians or the Romans or the Spartans. They knew.

[boris]

Let's call it SBW's Modest Proposal.

[cathyf]

The point I have made from time to time, is that if abortion is to be outlawed, then those who would outlaw it need to do a much better job of assuring quality of life for unwanted offspring...

Which brings us around to the original topic. Which is the pro-death side's rage that the pro-lifers -- through the crisis pregnancy centers -- are doing exactly that. To them, the Original (and Only) Sin is hypocrisy, and finding out that pro-lifers are not in fact hypocrites is more than they can bear.

[sbw]

Don't cloak the issue in bullcarp about how those who believe it does, have a special responsibility to take care of those children who are allowed to live.

Gosh. We classical liberals, mistakenly called conservatives, prefer not to impose our will through mandates, but believe it is worthwhile to bring sound ideas to the attention of others, even if they don't care to hear what is said.

If those who oppose abortion find virtue in leaving babies facing intolerable lives, who am I to mandate they think about it? :-)

Didn't that Apocalypse Now dude love the smell of vitriol in the morning?

[narciso]

Colonel Kilgore, 'napalm in the morning,' who is meant to suggest a Westmoreland, or the Swift Boaters chief, Commodore Hoffman, the problem is they are burning down the culture, we're bringing a little bottle to spritz what remains,
otherwise why all this 'agita' over such a clinic.

[sbw]

Yes, narciso, that's the guy, and I could feel enough wind in the comments that it was worth noting.

Your word 'agita' is better than my substitution for the colonel's word napalm, but you get the feeling.