Now This Is Crazy

Testimony at the Aurora movie shooter trial confirms the shooter was crazy:

CENTENNIAL, Colo. — If all had gone according to James E. Holmes’s plan, someone would have tripped the labyrinthine nest of explosives he had woven around his apartment, luring the police from the Aurora movie theater where he is accused of opening fire last July, an F.B.I. agent testified Tuesday.

During a second day of testimony in a preliminary hearing for Mr. Holmes, who is accused of killing 12 people and wounding more than 50, Special Agent Garrett Gumbinner recounted how Mr. Holmes, a former neuroscience student, detailed to investigators his meticulous plot to blow up his apartment as a diversion.

That is devious (and follows the playbook established by the Norway killer) - blow up the apartment, draw police and fireman there, then attack the theatre.

But only Rube Goldberg could have come up with this ploy for triggering the explosives in Holmes' apartment:

According to testimony on Tuesday, Mr. Holmes told the police he had timed his computer to blare music, hoping to draw someone inside his home, thereby detonating the explosives.

A second triggering device was set up near a trash bin outside his apartment, Mr. Holmes reportedly told the police. As Agent Gumbinner described it, Mr. Holmes explained that he had placed the device in a garbage bag, along with a boom box and a remote-control car.

His plan was for a CD from the boom box to blast music, attracting a passer-by, who would then fidget with the remote-control car and inadvertently set off the triggering mechanism, Agent Gumbinner said.

I haven't given this two minutes thought but I have no doubt that a person as crafty and motivated as this psycho could have devised a more direct triggering mechanism. Just offhand, Matt Damon (as Jason Bourne) used an oscillating fan to distract his pursuers - why not put one one a remote timer and blow debris around the room to set off the motion detector?

Or put something flammable in the microwave and heat it up (on a timer). Just be careful!

On a related note, this very interesting WND article (linked yesterday by Drudge) left me wondering whether it was written by (a) a right-wing gun nut; (b) a left-wing anti Big Pharma nut; or (c) a shrewd observer of the American scene. His gist - although the media is happy to blather on about guns and mass shootings, they go silent on the link between psychiatric medication and mass violence. And why might that be?

Some critics suggest these official omissions are motivated by a desire to protect the drug companies from ruinous product liability claims. Indeed, pharmaceutical manufacturers are nervous about lawsuits over the “rare adverse effects” of their mood-altering medications. To avoid costly settlements and public relations catastrophes – such as when GlaxoSmithKline was ordered to pay $6.4 million to the family of 60-year-old Donald Schnell who murdered his wife, daughter and granddaughter in a fit of rage shortly after starting on Paxil – drug companies’ legal teams have quietly and skillfully settled hundreds of cases out-of-court, shelling out hundreds of millions of dollars to plaintiffs. Pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly fought scores of legal claims against Prozac in this way, settling for cash before the complaint could go to court while stipulating that the settlement remain secret – and then claiming it had never lost a Prozac lawsuit.

All of which is, once again, to respectfully but urgently ask the question: When on earth are we going to find out if the perpetrator of the Sandy Hook school massacre, like so many other mass shooters, had been taking psychiatric drugs?

I can't object to Big Pharma conspiracy theories. But a simpler explanation as to why the mainstream media is all guns all the time on this topic is that here in Prozac Nation, big-city reporters know plenty of people on anti-depressants and very few people with guns. In their world, a person with a gun is an outlier, and maybe a bit off; a person on Prozac is normal. Now, that doesn't exactly logically cohere to a tired right-wing mind like mind, but I have never claimed sufficient intelligence and intellectual flexibility to be a liberal.

As to the link between psychiatric drugs and mass violence, here is another link on that topic. Thay have all sorts of links regarding warning labels on medications and other examples of medicated shooters, but... the publisher is a Scientology front group, so their 'facts', even if accurate, are chosen selectively. Distrust but verify. We await the alliance of the NRA with the Church of Scientology in a pushback against gun control. Tom Cruise and Wayne LaPierre, and does it get any better?

Folks interested in swimming back to the mainstream can look to this Psychology Today article:

There has been an enduring controversy over whether psychiatric medications can trigger violent actions toward others. A review of the FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System  by Thomas Moore, Joseph Glenmullen and Curt Furberg, which was published by PLoS One on December 15, found that such "adverse events" are indeed associated with antidepressants and several other types of psychotropic medications.

...

In light of this finding, the many past shootings at school campuses and other public venues should perhaps be investigated anew by government officials, with an eye toward ascertaining whether psychotropic use may have, in the manner of an adverse event, triggered that violence.

Moore and his collaborators concluded: "These data provide new evidence that acts of violence towards others are a genuine and serious adverse drug event that is associated with a relatively small group of drugs. Varenicline, which increases the availability of dopamine, and serotonin reuptake inhibitors were the most strongly and consistently implicated drugs."

I would note that, like alcohol, automobiles and guns, psychotropic drugs can bring enhancement to many and occasional tragedy to some. An obvious difference is that the dangers of alcohol, autos and guns are widely understood.

ANOTHER DOCTOR HEARD FROM: The Huffington Post offers an article by Dr. Peter Breggin describing his book "Medication Madness, the Role of Psychiatric Drugs in Cases of Violence, Suicide and Crime". Let's flip to the Amazon synopsis:

In Medication Madness, psychiatrist Peter R. Breggin, M.D., describes how people taking psychiatric medication can experience abnormal behavioral reactions, including suicide, violence, emotional breakdowns, and criminal acts. Dr. Breggin explains his concept of “medication spellbinding”: individuals taking psychiatric drugs may have no idea whatsoever that their mental conditions are deteriorating and that their actions are no longer under control. He proves his argument by documenting dozens of cases from his practice and his consultations in legal cases. Reading like a thriller, the book also examines how the FDA, the pharmaceutical industry, and the medical establishment continue to oversell the value of these drugs, and he provides information on how to safely stop taking psychiatric medications. Medication Madness is a compelling and frightening read as well as a cautionary tale about our reliance on medicine to fix what ails us.

From an old lurker in the comments we also have this journal article from Dr. Breggin terrifying us about the perils of Prozac. I will say this - if Congress really feels an urge to Do Something following the Newtown shooting, banning high capacity magazines will be an ineffective headline grabber. Congressional hearings delving into these pscychotropic drugs might actually be useful. But I say that not having checked the role of Big Pharma in contributing to campaigns.

Comments

[Clarice]

speaking of news bias, the WaPo's Juliet Ailprin is still flogging the AGW theme song.http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/2012-hottest-year-on-record-in-continental-us-noaa-says/2013/01/08/5c9dc1ae-55d9-11e2-8b9e-dd8773594efc_story.html

And the Post is still not mentioning her conflict of interest--her husband's a bit player in the AGw game.

[MarkO]

Just to be clear, I intend to continue to take my pills.

[cathyf]

The whole anti-psychotics-cause-psychosis argument is a lot like the anti-vax logic. There are gazillions of nutcases out there who are NOT doing terrible things because of TAKING the drugs. It is people going OFF the drugs that cause the vast majority of problems.

Andrea Yates was on Haldol, and then, for reasons that have never been explained, her doctors took her off of it. Within a few weeks, she drowned all 5 of her children. If the drug manufacturers are going to be responsible for the rare bad things that happen when someone takes their drugs, who is going to be held responsible for the bad things that happen when people don't take the drugs?

Oh, and the coming chaos and destruction in the health care system isn't going to HELP the process of getting crazy people to get on the drugs and STAY on the drugs that are preventing them from doing terrible things.

[Thomas Collins]

"This Is Crazy"

I vote for THIS IS EVIL.

[jimmyk]

Juliet Ailprin is still flogging the AGW theme song

According to this, the NOAA might be keeping two sets of books on temperatures.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/pj-gladnick/2013/01/08/was-hottest-year-record-based-phony-data

[NK]

CathyF- your points are as imporatnt as TomM's post. I assume that the pyschotropic meds have on balance greatly reduced violent acts by those suffering from psychiatric conditions. That said-- I also have no doubt that a much smaller number of people have suffered from violent impulses from side effects or improper dosage of meds-- TomM's link highlights some of those spectacular med failures. But what are the stats? I suspect, those stats have never been developed because it would be inconvenient to know them-- drugs would no longer be manufactured b/c of liability or just bad publicity, and the medical/law enforcement world as well as the pharma manufacturers don't want that result-- so they avoid quantifying the results of medicating people. This is no simple question. Sooooo.... BAN GUNZ!

[Extraneus]

Click for full size.

[Extraneus]

I read yesterday that police somewhere justified confiscating a citizen's video camera, and I believe arresting him, by citing a patient privacy clause in the Obamacare law. Apparently the person they were arresting while being videotaped was some sort of mental patient.

Is there a similar reason why we don't know what drugs these mass killers were taking or not taking?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Is it just possible that the presence of psychoactive drugs in proximity to insane mass killers is correlated in the same way that Cheetos are to pot smokers?

[centralcal]

Speaking of CRAZY, you will all get a kick out of the link in the following Tweet (It is Jack Lew's official signature and I can't wait to see it on my money - if I have any!)

Ryan Lizza ‏@RyanLizza

Good time to remind people that this is Jack Lew's signature: http://twitter.yfrog.com/nuuryjrj

[NK]

Lew's signature-- THAT is very troubling.

[Porchlight]

LOL

[rse]

OT-but my Gypsy Principal has resigned less than one year after starting to go work on a new project with Gates, Carnegie, and Joyce Foundation funding. Hard to make up the scheming hurry going on out there to get this fundamental Transformation in place.

Grab the guns and gut the minds could be the operative motto for the 2nd term.

[Porchlight]

Last curlicue cut off. But it ends the same way it begins. Hahahaha.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Seems fitting if we end up with that scribble on our funny money.

[Porchlight]

Suggests a mind content to insert large and imprecise numbers of zeros where they don't belong.

Troubling.

[Porchlight]

Super.

TWS: Biden: Obama Might Use Executive Order To Deal With Guns

And who will stop him?

[matt]

One of the issues with the mentally ill that is being found more and more is mixed diagnoses. Often it's not just one syndrome, but two or even more. Bipolar - schizophrenic is probably the most common, and seems to be more common among males in the 17-27 age range.

Then comes the tailoring of a pharmaceutical solution. Psychiatrists, who are basically pill dispensers these days, mix and match medications to control many of the symptoms associated with individual patients. Every patient is different.

In addition, the patients reaction to particular combinations change, so prescriptions must be changed as well. It is a constant process.

Banning guns and high capacity clip magazines is easy compared to the real solution.

[GMax]

Well at least we are no longer talking about Tim Geithner in a clown suit, now that is some real crazy train...

[James D.]

Porch, I don't think anyone will.

We're fundamentally screwed as a society. I hate thinking this way, but I honestly don't see any reason for hope.

We've got a populace that's (in general) ignorant of history, innumerate, and all-too-easily led by vapid emotional appeals from the MSM, the entertainment industry and grandstanding politicans. They don't understand the basic ideas that underlie our freedoms, our standing in the world, and our prosperity - or, worse, they've been taught to disbelieve in or even despise those ideas.

They've been made this way thanks to two full generations of rot in our educational system, from grade school through to the universities, and an incredible coarsening and debasing of our culture, in pretty much every aspect, over the same period.

There aren't enough of us who know differently to effectively fight back, and the rot is too deep and too pervasive to be stopped, I think.

I'd like to believe what I wrote isn't true, but five minutes of watching or reading pretty much any news makes it clear that, if anything, I'm understating the problem.

[Jack is Back]

Forget Rube Goldberg. That maze of indiocy was more Jean Tinguely who gave the world and Columbus, Indiana "Chaos" more befitting of any harmless contraption by Rube.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Looks like Robbie the Robot with a quad fifty.

[Porchlight]

Pretty much, James D. Like you I'd love to believe it's not true.

[Danube of Thought]

And who will stop him?

Depends on what the order says whether it is intended to enforce a congressional enactment.

If he acts without a specific congressional authorization to do so, I don't believe the president has to power to declare certain conduct to be criminal. And I don't think most federal judges would hesitate to vacate any conviction for violation of such an order.

[Extraneus]

Looks a lot like my signature. What's his middle name?

[Porchlight]

Thanks DoT. Lately I'm finding it hard to imagine a situation in which Obama doesn't get to do pretty much exactly what he wants, but that is encouraging.

[marlene]

The Bangor Daily News is reporting that Richard Blanco of Bethel,Maine will be Obama's Inaugural Poet. Blanco is the first immigrant,the first Latino and the first gay to be named as Inaugural Poet. Just FYI,I'm sure we'll all be watching on Inauguration Day. Ha,Ha.

[hit and run]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MARLENE!!!

[matt]

Tinguely's art is "interesting". Droopy roboty landscapes that sort of ooze. Not to my taste.

At least Dali had incredible technical skill to go with his zany and dada sensibilities.

Anybody see today's front page of the WSJ? Now the Swiss central bank is all in on devaluing their currency.The article points out the massive exposure of the central banks to potentially non-performing loans as well as significant losses.

What we are seeing is the scenario proposed in the book "Currency Wars" breaking out like wildfire. $1 trillion coins and such policies are fiscal madness.

[Danube of Thought]

Henry Kissinger's signature:

[hit and run]

Ext:
Looks a lot like my signature.

Mine too.

Cursive o's and f's and b's and e's and j's for example (in random order) tend to portend a pen making many loops in the signing of one's name. I gave up long ago doing anything but fully embracing the loop. My loops are usually less rounded and uniform than Lew's. So I got that going for me.

[Dave (in MA)]

Re: Jack Lew's signature... looks like what happened when I hit a patch of black ice once in my Datsun.

[NK]

My signature looks much like Kissinger's.

Dave(Ma)/Matt-- did one of you own the french car, and post hysterical comments about driving it in Continental Europe?

[Dave (in MA)]

My first car was a 4 year old used Peugeot, and within 2 years I had to have the engine rebuilt and there were rusted out sections in the rocker panels large enough to put your hand into, but I was driving it in continental US.

[NK]

Thanks dave-- it was definitely UK and continental europe driving stories told on a saturday night in the comments. Just can't remember who.

[Dave (in MA)]

Subtle.

[Threadkiller]

"Maher, probably jokingly, offered to donate $5 million to the charity of Trump’s choice if he would release his own birth certificate to prove The Donald was not the “spawn of his mother having sex with orangutan…”

But the “Celebrity Apprentice” star set out to have the last laugh. In a letter, obtained by Yahoo, Trump’s lawyer responds to Maher’s offer with a copy of Trump’s certificate and instructions for money promised.

“Attached hereto is a copy of Mr. Trump's birth certificate, demonstrating that he is the son of Fred Trump, not an orangutan. Please remit the $5 million to Mr. Trump immediately and he will ensure that the money be donated to the following five charities in equal amounts: Hurricane Sandy Victims, The Police Athletic League, The American Cancer Society, The March of Dimes, and The Dana-Farber Cancer Institute.”

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/01/09/donald-trump-sends-bill-maher-birth-certificate-awaits-5-million/

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

[Melinda Romanoff]

I did not clean off any Citroen mirrors while driving in Ireland.

[NK]

Dave(Ma)--- Subtle. But in the prior thread I commented that Ben Franlin warned about this 225 years ago or so, when he told the woman in Phila during the Constitutional Convention: "A republic ---if you can keep it."

[Melinda Romanoff]

TK-

I believe that's the other lawyer lesson for the day.

Don't eff with someone who can hire and fire more of them than you.

[rse]

Given what I tend to read most days which is rather graphic, the allusions fit far better than people know.

As I just told Red on a different matter, it's really tragic when people assume you are being hyperbolic and you are not.

[fdcol63]

James D. @ 12:28 PM

Exactly.

[Porchlight]

Happy birthday, marlene!

[Threadkiller]

Happy Birthday Marlene!

[henry]

Happy Birthday Marlene!

[Thomas Collins]

My elementary school teachers, who took penmanship seriously, would have set Lew and Kissinger straight.

Happy Birthday, marlene!

[Threadkiller]

How is it we are having the "worst" flu season ever when flu vaccinations have been given at an all time high?

[pagar]

Happy Birthday,Marlene, and may you enjoy many more!

[NK]

Happy Birthday Marlene.

[Captain Hate]

HB Marlene.

I read that there was nobody elected to the baseball HOF. I respect that they do something like that instead of being like the Goodell Football League where they always induct a group of players. Clearly some players are more deserving than others and it's not a Hall of Very Good. Nor is it a Hall of Stats.

[Janet]

Happy Birthday, Marlene!! Lots of love to you!

James D. @ 12:28 PM

Exactly.

I agree.

[Frau Posaune]

Happy birthday, Marlene. May you have a grand day, just to your liking.

You share a birthday with my husband (who is always busy keeping me out of the slammer).

[Captain Hate]

How is it we are having the "worst" flu season ever when flu vaccinations have been given at an all time high?

There are still a lot of people who don't get vaccinated and, even if you are, that's still not a guarantee you won't get whatever the virus mutates into.

[Frau Grippe]

Ramirez did not capture Kerry's essence as a conehead.

TK - as I heard, the present strain was not included in the shot. It's part of the WH "Hire the incompetent" program.

[Jane: Mock the Media]

Happy Birthday Marlene - you almost share the day with someone else here.

I'm sure Hit is on it!

My signature looks more like Kissenger's than Lews - altho sometimes you can almost make out the "J".

[Frau Aktion]

Citizen or Subject?
If Pres. Executive Order tries any type of gun funny business, couldn't we close down D.C. with a friendly invasion?

[Captain Hate]

Tammy Bruce: I've been on Fox with Penn Jillette and he's an ass; a very strange and insecure man.

[Threadkiller]

My understanding, from a guest on Cavuto, is the shot is a wild guess based off of the prior flu season in South America. The CDC says our flu generaly spreads from the border states.

Hmmm. What is common here?

[Sue]

Happy birthday Marlene.

Just heard from my doctor about the pathology report. The 2 lymph nodes were clear of cancer. The mass was entirely DCIS. Non invasive so I am now cancer free. Thanks everyone for prayers and well wishes. All that is left is healing and deciding how big my new ta ta's will be. ::grin::

[Dave (in MA)]

Yea Sue!
HB Marlene

[Barbara]

And who will stop him?

Obama's ready made tyranny: 1) use Executive Orders to implement his "fundamental" change of America; 2) use the 14th Amendment to get around the debt ceiling.

...and who will stop him?

[Melinda Romanoff]

Excellent news, Sue! And you brought a gift to marlene's party to boot!

Happy Birthday, marlene!

[Barbara]

That is absolutely wonderful news, Sue! I am so happy for you! :)

[Captain Hate]

Great news, Sue. Congrats. Not having to go through radiation or chemo is huge.

[Threadkiller]

Congrats Sue!!

[Thomas Collins]

Thanks for the update, Sue. It's great to hear the news.

[NK]

Congrats Sue. Godspeed.

[Dublindave]

Within ten years we'll have every single gun in America banned.

Then we can begin PHASE 2.

[rse]

TK-the flu vaccine is really not designed so much to prevent the flu as to prevent death from the flu. In most years it is only about 60% effective in preventing the flu at all but is supposedly quite effective in preventing death.

And I did not know that but one of my guests New Years Day runs the national flu project at a major med school and her hubby is also an epidemiologist. It became a topic of conversation over Black Eyed Peas and Greens.

[NK]

DD-- is it true Jack Lew will designate you to hold one of the Trillion Dollar coins;

PS: how apt that you comment on a CRAZY thread.

[Extraneus]

Great, Sue!

[rse]

Such good news Sue!!

HB Marlene!!

[matt]

The happiest of days to you, Marlene!

And Sue; great news! Get healthy! Have fun! Every day is a skate from now on.

[marlene]

Wonderful Sue!
Thank you all for the birthday wishes!

[Extraneus]

A Cameroon appeals court has overturned the conviction of two men who were sentenced to five years in prison for "looking gay" and ordering Bailey's Irish Cream.

[Captain Hate]

marlene, we've got a huge thaw in NE Ahia today with it being nearly 50 degrees. I can see lots of lawn.

[Tom Maguire]

The whole anti-psychotics-cause-psychosis argument is a lot like the anti-vax logic. There are gazillions of nutcases out there who are NOT doing terrible things because of TAKING the drugs. It is people going OFF the drugs that cause the vast majority of problems.

My GUESS is that psychtropic drugs have two effects (for purposes of this discussion).

One is harm reduction - in a hypothetical pool of 1000 troubled people, maybe ten would become homicidal if left untreated.

After treatment, only ("Only"!) five become homicidal. AT one level, that is a win for the good guys.

BUT! The second effect is harm-shifting. It is entirely likely that the five who go off as a result of treatment are different from the ten who would have gone off untreated. (or at least, that the group of five includes some people not in the original group of ten.)

So what are the ethics of that? As a society we would prefer only five killer to ten. But some of the five are, one might plausibly argue, victims of the drug regimen they adopted.

An obvious objection is that we have no real way of knowing who the ten might have been, so the issue becomes a matter of dueling hypotheticals.

That said, some people get protection from their gun ownership and other people get killed. Banning guns (even an effective gun ban) would shift the roster of victims - is that really fair to a responsible gun owner who, disarmed, is beaten to death by her large, abusive ex?

[Captain Hate]

Courtland Milloy besharts himself worse than Al Roker again: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/whats-in-a-name-the-redskins-bad-karma/2013/01/08/a6ab8bb4-59da-11e2-88d0-c4cf65c3ad15_story.html

The comments are hilarious.

[OldTimer]

Sue, you are an inspiration and a great example of grace under fire. I'm so pleased to hear of your final prognosis.

And Marlene, HB, and thanks for all your dispatches from Maine. (I once had a summer cottage on Islesboro - paradise :)

[Porchlight]

Sue, congratulations on your good news! That is wonderful and I'm sure you and your family are all so thrilled. Thanks for brightening everyone's day.

[Porchlight]

How is it we are having the "worst" flu season ever when flu vaccinations have been given at an all time high?

I'm not an anti-vaccine person at all, in general. But I have always thought flu vaccinations were bunk. Have never gotten one and haven't had the flu in 20 years.

[Jack is Back]

First, its terrific news Sue. Go for the big uns:)

Second, a very happy birtheday to Marlene of Maine. So goes Marlene, So Goes Maine (or something like that).

The HOF sports writers just sent a message to baseball. Cut it out. (Because its still going on). Now how about Pete Rose? No doping just pure hustle and the hits record. [This should probably be a separate thread:]

[Porchlight]

My understanding, from a guest on Cavuto, is the shot is a wild guess based off of the prior flu season in South America.

Talk about fighting the last war. What is the point of vaccinating against last year's flu? More reason why I think the flu vaccine is just another job security box check for CDC.

[NJJan]

Happy Birthday Marlene!

Sue, what wonderful news!

[Danube of Thought iPad]

Really, really happy for you, Sue.

Have a wonderful birthday, Marlene.

[old lurker (but not Old Lurker)]

cathyf et al. -- you're usually smarter than that. SSRIs do not stabilize mood; they are anti-depressants, not mood stabilizers like lithium or depakote. In vulnerable patients, especially patients with bipolar tendencies, SSRIs can trigger a mixed state or black mania, which is a demonic combination of the blackest depression and the most agitating mania. Just horrible. Please see LUN.

[fdcol63]

Sue, excellent news! So relieved to hear it.

[Danube of Thought iPad]

William Bigelow:

"Now, now. Calm down. Yes, I know you voted for Obama, but didn’t you ever stop to think that he’d tax you, too? You didn’t?

"Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

"Disillusioned Obama voters are waking up to face the reality that Obama didn’t exempt them in his quest to steal money from all Americans to pay for his expanding government. It turns out that those making $30,000 a year will pay more taxes than those making $500,000 because of the deal Obama pushed for after the fiscal cliff debacle.

"Obama voters, the joke’s on you."

[old lurker (but not Old Lurker)]

LUN is a longer review article by Breggin: "Suicidality, violence and mania caused by
selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors
(SSRIs): A review and analysis."

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--All that is left is healing and deciding how big my new ta ta's will be. ::grin::

Posted by: Sue | January 09, 2013 at 02:28 PM--

The only thing preventing me posting some pictorial suggestions is cc at work. :)

Glad you won't have to do radiation Sue; worse than chemo IMO.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

I am now cancer free.

YIPPEEEEEEE!!!!

And now I have a question which, if utterly inappropriate, please ignore.

How long between when you were diagnosed to when you found out you are cancer free?

[James D.]

JiB - No Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame, ever. Let him stand outside, face pressed against the window, for the rest of his life.

He had numerous hances to admit to what everyone knew he did, and what reams of evidence showed beyond any conceivable doubt that he did, and still he refused, over and over and over.

If you want forgiveness, you have to at a minimum act like you're sorry and that you understand what it is you want forgiveness FOR, and why it was wrong for you to do it. Rose couldn't be bothered.

Besides, everyone in baseball, from the batboys up to the owners know that gambling is the one real "death penalty" offense in the sport. It's no secret.

[old lurker (but not Old Lurker)]

One more LUN, if you can forgive me: Marcia Angell's series of review in The New York Review of Books. I know, consider the source, but Angell was editor of the New England Journal of Medicine.

[cathyf]

It is entirely likely that the five who go off as a result of treatment are different from the ten who would have gone off untreated.

Which is why I brought up the anti-vax argument. It is entirely likely that the 5 kids who go into anaphylaptic shock from the allergy to the binder in the DPT vaccine are completely different from the 2000 kids who would die from whooping cough if they didn't get the vaccine.

[centralcal]

Just popping in during my lunch break...

Happiest of birthday wishes to Marlene.

And, Sue - you GO girl! I know you are feeling mighty miserable during this recovery phase, but what fantastic news that it will ALL soon be over.

[NK]

TomM@2:58: you have BIG brain.

[anonamom]

Cathy, lurker is right here--this is not like anti vax stuff.

Depressed people are not likely to harm others at all.

These SSRIs--which I swear every other patient I care for is on, prescribed by family practioners, OB/gyns, anybody--have actually been shown in good studies to CAUSE homocidal ideation.
In my community we have a father---upstanding citizen--who is now in prison for murdering his twin five year old daughters, and the poor 14 year old who offed his grandparents in the first article Lurker linked has a life sentence. That was after the death penalty sentence he originally faced was overturned by the state Supreme Court.
Both had recently been started on SSRIs for depression.

[Clarice]

That is not an earthquake! It's me doing a happy dance for sue and Marlene.

[James D.]

My issue with meds isn't so much with the twenty-somethings like Holmes, Loughner et al.

My problem is when we medicate kids (and boys far more than girls, from what I read) in grade school, with all the various ADD and ADHD drugs, as well as other psychotropics.

We're drugging little children with powerful meds whose long-term effects are poorly understood (if even that), to "cure" behaviors that are usually nothing more than kids being kids.

You do that for a few years, and you end up with messed-up teenagers and young adults, who then graduate to different and stronger meds and, not at all coincidentally, some of them go off the rails and we get an Aurora or Newtown-type incident.

[Jack is Back]

narciso,

You saw this about the Japanese filming a Kraken:)