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January 14, 2013

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maryrose

First
The war on drugs is now a state issue. Cue California and Colorado.

rse

I would appreciate others weighing in on this. I keep hearing stories from UMC high school and universities that heroin and LSD are back. I asked Red and she said she thought that was true.

We are shocked. but also I am concerned this is also where the no legal drinking until 21 has gotten us. All illicit. Anecdotally it seems better on campuses that look the other way for college underage drinking and worst at the we arrest for everything campuses.

Really would love some perspectives. I hear LSD and I think of Art Linkletter's daughter. Bad idea people.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

I look upon drugs as largely a useful Darwinian exercise.
Druggies tend to have fewer kids, die sooner and be Dems.
Sounds like abandoning this battlefield would be a win/win/win.

Melinda Romanoff on Kindle

He's quit the other two declared wars. Why stop there?

(TM-You have mail.)

Rick Ballard

RSE,

We can watch what happens in the states which have enacted dope nullification. I'm interested in hearing about the first Fed criminal cases which hang due to jury nullification hinging on the state law nullification. A "Zenger Moment", if you will. If Dope Nullification succeeds, it should be coupled with the 30 states which have given BOzocare the finger regarding establishing exchanges and used to promote rejection of BOzodough for education or Medicaid.

I'm not in favor of legalization because I believe it will just push the peddlers to pimping the next level of product. The drug wars in Chicago (where Calypso Louie's boys are doing there darnedest to eliminate competition) aren't over peddling weed, although weed is certainly part of the inventory.

Cecil Turner

As with most things, the real issue is in the solutions, not identifying the problems.

  • Leftists plan to take an additional trillion a year in taxes (preferably from "rich people," but in any case from somebody else), righties want to cut spending;
  • Leftists want to throw even more money at the education system (borrowed from China, natch, with a modest percentage diverted to Democrat coffers) . . . righties want competition;
  • Lefties want to legalize drugs, righties want stiffer penalties for repeat offenders; and,
  • Lefties want even more regulations (with waivers), righties want a bonfire.
The current impasse is somewhere in the middle (heavily slanted toward the libs after the 2008-2010 utopia period). Speaking for the myself (way over on the right), I'd vastly prefer we make no more compromises with the left (except perhaps on the drug thing, which I'd bargain away in a heartbeat for some reasonable movement on the others).

narciso

Well what were the big spending items, even prior to 2008, Medicare Part D, and Educational Spending, the former was a supply push for pharmaceuticals, the other feeds the maw of the educational archipelago, rse has uncovered.

Now the left argues the various campaigns in the war on terror, is the big driver, but that's relatively small beer, in the big scheme of things.

matt

The government as the largest factor in the sale of assault weapons. LUN

Gus

I'm not concerned with Obama's sissy social issue opinions. I'm concerned with his MARXIST ACTIONS.
Not what HE SAYS.
What he DOES.
Obama is out of control, and the PRESS is mouth on knob lockstep.

Carol Herman

Doubt enough people will move from one side to the other. Plus, the Tea Party's gains in 2010 SHRUNK. Obama won re-election. So, maybe, it's time to examine WHY the GOP ran with Romney.

Don't they data-mine information?

Can't they do what Clinton did so well before computer technology really took hold? (He "focused-grouped" everything before he picked a position.)

When you fail it's time to consider what happened with your "product."

The war on drugs? Homeland Security. The Federal government spreads the fat around. And, lots of people who are pretty shitty workers get good jobs. You can't export those jobs to China.

And, the recent suicide of the Swartz kid; where the prosecutors went full tilt bullying has only backfired ... because MIT, seeing its "good name," (for what it's worth)being tarnished ... came out and pointed to prosecutorial misjudgements.

If it were only the "yoot" of America, and white people, that you needed to win majorities ... you might see the problem with two groups: Move-On (who used to wear pink tee-shirts), and the Tea Party trying to gain traction of making a fiddler's difference on political agendas.

As to "druggies having fewer babies" ...Reminds me of something I read about Alcohol. "Sure, alcohol kills, but it makes for more children than it's losing to Alcohol Abuse.

Oh, here's what happens when drugs are legalized: YOU CAN TAX THIS! Same with prostitution. And, gambling. What did all those rules give you except the mafia? And, legal fees.

Richard Aubrey

As regards being seen as tough on crime or soft on crime:
Being seen by whom?
What does it matter?
Oh, yeah. The voters.
Maybe we need a campaign to educate the voters how much they're paying--see, among other things civil asset forfeiture--for the war on drugs and how much they're getting.

matt

Afghanistan in the late 1980's supplied a large percentage of the world's illegal opiates. Today 95% of the world's illegal opiates come from Afghanistan and the price is at its lowest in 50 years with better quality than ever.

Kids get hooked on Oxycontin and other drugs and then switch to H because it is so much cheaper. Where I live we lose approximately one life per week to heroin ODs, far more than in the 70's when the drug wars began.

Pot is a gateway drug for some. It's a fact. Studies are finding that the hyper-strong reefer today can trigger psychosis.

Availability is driven by demand. By simply incarcerating the dealers and growers, we again do nothing to identify and ameliorate the root causes.

My proposal is simple. If someone wants to smoke or shoot it up or ingest psychotropic or narcotic substances we legalize it on the condition that they also undergo treatment and that they lose the privilege to vote and wear a red "A" for addict.Maybe lose their driving privileges as well. These are simply matters of common sense.

Dosages will be controlled and be very inexpensive.

The red "A" is a symbol that the wearer is not in full control of their faculties to those around them. They are to be pitied and given the opportunity to regain their full rights.

I don't like it, but the fact is that our government has been corrupted in this as well and that the problem is out of control.

I cannot believe that a multi-billion drug trade is not being facilitated by specific government officials any longer when the same plomo o plata strategy used in South America has the same dangers of refusal. The money is simply too tempting and the shipments are massive.

narciso

True it's a cultural problem, that is driving the demand, a values vaccuum, actively expanded
by the media, although other institutions are
involved as well.

Law enforcement is blamed, but frankly they are left to clean up the detritus of broken or non existent families, inadequate schools, (which may be on purpose) and other institutional failures.

Danube of Thought iPad

Posted the following late on the previous thread:

There is no limit to his fundamental dishonesty. Today his line is "I have to spend this money because congress passes laws requiring it." of. Course, those laws were passed by long-past congresses who are no longer accountable to anyone. The current congress wants to change those laws, and he refuses even to discuss it.

I really hate him.

narciso

The problem is MoveOn is about tearing down, and the Tea Party is about holding institutions together, in the LUN, is another example

Threadkiller

He was always honest regarding his birth circumstances.

Captain Hate

Pot is a gateway drug for some. It's a fact. Studies are finding that the hyper-strong reefer today can trigger psychosis.

I figure the THC content these days is off the charts.

torquewrench

"How many of you think we have the premier education system in the world, where the dollars and are efforts are focused on our kids? Hmmm…none of you?"

I call bullshit right there.

Whatever else you might say about MoveOn, they have consistently come down on the side of supporting and defending our senile and ossified education-industrial complex and its unionized featherbedded flunkies.

Danube of Thought iPad

"He was always honest regarding his birth circumstances."

What has he said about those circumstances that he knew to be false?

narciso

You've noticed how the press kits, whitewashed this inconvenient pattern of facts;

http://www.jammiewf.com/2013/mostly-peaceful-ows-wannabe-bomber-planned-to-blow-up-washington-square-arch/

Mad Jack

"As with most things, the real issue is in the solutions, not identifying the problems."

Dead on right Cecil. All this "can't we just get along" BS from a tea party factotum tells me these guys need a long talk with RSE!

Janet

One thing is that he said his parents got together because the Selma marches changed the world. The marches were in 1965. He was born in 1961.

The Kennedy story in the video is a lie too. His father came before the Kennedy administration.
Out in the open LIES.

He also said in his book bio that he was born in Kenya. That is a lie, right? For 16 years his bio said that he was born in Kenya.
How in the world was that not a huge story?

MarkO

"What has he said about those circumstances that he knew to be false?"

Exactly. It's all hearsay.

Danube of Thought iPad

"He also said in his book bio that he was born in Kenya."

No he didn't. An obscure agent said that. He has no idea where he was born, other than what he has been told. Same as you, same as me.

matt

daddy;

My daughter, recent honors grad in poli sci/business and I were having lunch recently and she commented that she'd seen Django Unchained. I stated that I would not see the film for its use of the "n" word, which I find absolutely unacceptable.

She said that that was how they spoke back then. I said "no sweetheart, they did not use that word until the 1880's or so". She replied that it was just before the Civil War, thinking that it took place in the 1880's. She was within 20 years, but no cigar.

There is a horrible lack of the study of history in our country. It has basically been abolished in the new books, which are mainly propaganda. There is only a Leftist context, even or maybe especially at the college level.

Kids are not readers of books anymore, either, so they don't delve like we did. They don't care about the past. Low information humans.

daddy

OT on todays Dog Walk.

Currently 46 degrees. The recent Williwaw's have turned the entire town into an icebowl---they even closed the schools for today.

Just took the dogs out to the nearby path along the slopes of the Turnagain near my house. Because we have had lots of snow which has previously frozen even the dirt path is super slick as the previously compacted ice is still thick, yet now with melt and water on top you just about kill yourself if you don't have spikes on, and since I didn't I had to gingerly pick my footing on tufts and dirt and rocks and branches that have poked thru the ice or are bordering the trail.

About a mile back I took a severe tumble, sliding upside down about 60 feet on a bit of a frozen streams runoff, but luckily only crashing into some downed trees and spraining a hand and my ego. Fry and Scout, my dogs, were both quite concerned and hustled right down to face lick the dickens out of me as I just lay there gathering myself for a few minutes and making sure everything still worked. Builds character:)

Anyhow, decided to turn back, but then while cutting through the woods well above the icy path to avoid another slip, I was startled to see at about 60-70 yards what I'm pretty sure was a brown bear. Yikes! Was it warm enough to wake these guys up? Apparently so.

It looked big and was looking in the other direction. I didn't wait around to verify. I am very familiar each and every day with plenty of moose and this just didn't seem to have the proper coloring for or the stance for the hind end of a moose. Regardless, I had had my 2nd quick come to Jesus moment for the afternoon and that was enough. Fry did some barking but obediently followed which was amazing, and we headed slowly but steadily backwards, then across the icy path, and on back to the car via a trail thru the woods on below.

Don't tell Momma, but I wouldn't trade this place for the world. Constantly makes you feel alive living up here!

They are telling us to expect rapid freezing by tomorrow early, so we'll see if that brings relief or more problems.

narciso

Weren't we informed they wrote their own bios, for the fly leaf. N0w it's very possible that Barry Dunham, knew he wasn't going to get very far with the truth, so he 'augmented' certain facts, like the notion that his father was the Kenyan finance minister, and the Selma anecdote, was as they say 'too good to check'

peter

Daddy, please do take care of yourself. And aren't moose just as dangerous as bears?

Danube of Thought iPad

"Weren't we informed they wrote their own bios, for the fly leaf."

Informed by whom, and who are "they?"

narciso

Seems like ages ago, doesn't it'


://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/18/dystel-biography-submission-guidelines-obama-kenya-fact-checking-error

daddy

Before the "slip" on the dog walk, I was listening to Talk Radio on the headsets to the President's Press Performance today. It struck me that he was pushing 3 points;

1) The Gun Industry is making money on this latest situation (BAD)
2) He cares more than any other President has ever cared about protecting the children from getting shot (GOOD)
3) He will disregard the Constitution and Rule by Executive Order because of (1) and (2).

The fawning press seem to be lapping it up.

But an objective observer looking at the situation would see:

1) The Gun Industry is making money, not "just on this latest situation" but exactly as the Gun Industry or any other Industry has been making money since 1776. No change there.

2) Plenty of Presidents (in fact all probably) have felt as bad about children dying in accidents, gun related or not, as has this President.
No change there.

3) This President, unlike his Predecessors, has decided to limit the 2nd Amendment Unconstitutionally by Executive Order---something his predecessors in office have not tried to do. That's the change.

So will the only real change evident at todays Press Conference, (this Presidents decision to trash the Constitution via Executive order), be reported by our Media?

My guess is no.

Captain Hate

The fawning press seem to be lapping it up.

Not according to a fellow moron:

Even the Washington Post is blasting obama for being such a nasty fuck and causing the polarization of Washington Politics. They said he called this presser today in order to go after the Republicans and for not other reason. Pretty hard stuff for the Post.

Janet

No he didn't. An obscure agent said that. He has no idea where he was born, other than what he has been told. Same as you, same as me.

It wasn't an obscure agent...it was HIS agent. His book was sold as being written by someone born in Kenya for 16 years.
...and in his damn book "Dreams From My Father" he (or someone) wrote that he HAD his birth certificate.
pg. 26 "I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school..."
then on pg. 345 he (or someone) writes - "Unlike my mum, Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark's father was. So of all of the Old Man's kids, Mark's claim is the only one that's uncontested."

How can we be mocked for questioning Obama's story? He has documents...he doesn't. He was born in Kenya...he was born in some hospital in Hawaii....sometimes Queens, sometimes Kapioloni.

If a person just read Obama's own books & read Obama loving newspaper accounts...you can not come up with a straight story.

I do not believe he was born in Kenya, but like phony Cherokee Warren, I think he made stuff up to get ahead.

narciso

He was an exceeding jackass today, while O'Reilly was being a moron, and not in an AOS way, by contrast.

Clarice

Daddy, an adventure a minute..Take care.

Melinda Romanoff

narciso-

Your link dropped the "http". It can be found right here.

Threadkiller

"What has he said about those circumstances that he knew to be false?"

Only he can answer that.

"There is no limit to his fundamental dishonesty."

Are you changing your position to "there is a limit to his fundamental dishonesty"?

glasater

I believe the problem with taxing illicit behavior (or what is currently considered thusly) is that we have a cash system which allows transactions that cannot be monitored by the government.

It will come to pass (another opinion I hold) is that one day we will become a cash-less society.
Don't have a clue when it will happen but it may come sooner than I think.

Threadkiller

Mark Levin, in a first for him, defends "birthers"???

http://youtu.be/aPGQ4-YN6pc

Somthing is brewing, if you ask me.

Captain Hate

Here's our dream candidate with a real plan approved by Meeka, if only there wasn't that dead aid in the office: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeffrey-meyer/2013/01/14/once-again-msnbc-s-joe-scarborough-slams-republicans-extreme

Danube of Thought iPad

"Are you changing your position to 'there is a limit to his fundamental dishonesty?'"

No. I am saying the he often lies. It does not follow that he therefore always lies.

Melinda Romanoff

glasater-

It exists in the EU already. When a currency is no longer trusted, it collapses and is replaced in some manner. I don't believe it happens here, yet, but the risk is closer than necessary.

Danube of Thought iPad

"Only he can answer that."

Very true. But a whole host of nutballs attempt to do so anyway.

Threadkiller

"no limit"="always"

"limit"="not always"

Melinda Romanoff

DoT-

As a Chicago pol, it's a default setting. I bet it's easier to hide an ultra-leftist background and identity fraud, here, than in St. Petersburg.

Threadkiller

Scott Peterson refused to answer to his crime. He claims to innocent to this date.

Thank goodness a jury full of "nutballs" understood the circumstantial evidence for what it was despite Peterson's claim to the contrary.

I guess some fundamental liars are more honest than others.

Soylent Red

DoT:
He has no idea where he was born, other than what he has been told.
Or, for that matter, who his daddy is, other than what he has been told.

matt:
Kids are not readers of books anymore, either, so they don't delve like we did. They don't care about the past. Low information humans.
Not just kids. I read somewhere, not too long ago, that the average American reads less than two books a year cover to cover. The study counted magazines as books.

Their votes count the same as yours.

All this "can't we just get along" BS from a tea party factotum tells me these guys need a long talk with RSE!
My question is this: just where is the middle ground between freedom and tyranny, individualism and collectivism that we are supposed to meet at? Are we saying full blown Marxism is bad, but a little Marxism is OK? Allowing a President to crown himself monarch is bad, but his ignoring or undermining just a couple of parts of the Constitution is OK?

And to what end? Progress! But it is progress defined by the Left and couched in the terms and conditions they set. Therefore in any negotiation with the Left, you automatically start out by moving the center line left.

To put it bluntly, f*ck that and f*ck them. You are either a citizen or a serf. There is no middle ground. They have been playing a zero sum game with us for 100 years and counting and it's about time we start playing it right back and hard.

jimmyk

I do not believe he was born in Kenya, but like phony Cherokee Warren, I think he made stuff up to get ahead.

I agree with this, and it is inconceivable to me that (a) he didn't approve that bio; and (b) he wasn't fully aware of what it said.

That doesn't make him ineligible to be President, or not a U.S. citizen, it just makes him out to be a BSing phony.

Danube of Thought iPad

"How can we be mocked for questioning Obama's story?"

Because if, as you say, he simply made stuff up to get ahead, doing so is a huge and counterproductive waste of time. Do you expect that, if only you can make enough people see the truth, he will be impeached? That a court will declare him ineligible for the office he holds?

I detest this man even more than I detested LBJ. And I think the birthers are as harmful to today's opposition to Obama as the John Birch Society was to Goldwater's campaign against Johnson.

"Something is brewing, if you ask me."

Please give us your best-case scenario about what will come about when the brew is completed.

Danube of Thought iPad

"no limit"="always"

"limit"="not always"

Both statements are incoherent.

Threadkiller

If you agree with the idea that he made up stuff about his birth to get ahead then you have answered DoT's question:

"What has he said about those circumstances that he knew to be false?"

If indeed he was making stuff up, what else is there to prove him to be eligible?

Joan

On drugs, I've always thought they should be legalized and taxed. I am 71 yrs. old, have never smoked pot or taken any kind of drugs. I was raised in the era when we called people who took drugs 'dope fiends'. :) My dad was an alcoholic. My older sister (19 mos. older) got turned on to drugs by being given morphine shots for painful menstral cramps when she was in high school, she couldn't stand pain, and our mother would called our family doctor and he'd come and give her a shot of morphine and she turned into someone who repulsed me, slurry voice, etc. She never beat it, that craving, was always able to get prescription drugs from her doctors. People who want and crave drugs will get them--no matter how they get them or what they have to do to get them.

One interesting thing. I have a cousin, a few years younger than me, who has always smoked pot. She doesn't think it should be legalized. She told me she doesn't want to have someone like her driving around, causing a wreck.

Drugs. Quite a problem. But maybe if they were legally sold, controlled, the taxes could finance treatment, etc.

Threadkiller

"Please give us your best-case scenario about what will come about when the brew is completed."

There is no limit(some limit) to what will happen.

/incoherent DoT speak

Captain Hate

it just makes him out to be a BSing phony.

In doing so he demeans the office and the respect that any future occupant would otherwise expect to receive. It's really infuriating that nobody, including Romney, has been willing to put him on the spot for being the immature lowlife who has no coherent thought of how to move the country in any direction but backward. I wish I was more confident than I am that Boehner is up to the task when push comes to shove; but I see disturbing quotes that indicates that he thinks he really really can negotiate with him next time.

Danube of Thought iPad

"what else is there to prove him to be eligible?"

Among myriad other things,the votes of two successive electoral colleges.

Please bear in mind that he himself can neither prove nor disprove anything at all about where he was born. He must rely on what he was told, and on things like contempotaneous newspaper reports and statements of Hawaii public officials. I can readily understand his rejecting the zanies' accounts of conspiracies concerning such matters. But again, he himself cannot know, any nore than I can, where and when he was born.

Tell us what you hope will occur if he is unable to provide further proof of his eligibility.

Captain Hate

Hadn't TK pledged not to talk about this any more or was that only last year?

Soylent Red

Joan:

I hear that argument a lot and I have to point out: do you believe that the same people who would risk death or imprisonment to transport, sell and use narcotics would have a problem with tax evasion?

The real crux of the issue is whether people have a right to do what they want so long as it is harming no one else. Thus, I support full legalization.

On the other hand, someone's stupid actions should not affect my life. Thus, if you engage in drug use and operate a motor vehicle - death. If you sell to a minor - death. If you can't hold a job or feed your children - no State intervention or subsidy.

The problem isn't with legalization, it's with the national will to not enable addicts or punish the effects of their bad judgement.

Danube of Thought iPad

"There is no limit(some limit) to what will happen."

Screw up your courage and answer the question: what is your best-case scenario?

Threadkiller

Good call, CH.

Melinda Romanoff

Allowing a probability to exist through multiples of evasions alters the distribution potentialities of a lie from Poisson to Gaussian.

No question.

Rick Ballard

SR,

The lead heads assess the death penalty for selling drugs in Chicago every night. It doesn't seem to affect sales all that much.

Threadkiller

DoT, you don't care about the answer. I won't waste your time.

Soylent Red

It doesn't seem to affect sales all that much.

My point exactly. The drug lifestyle, whether on the supply side or the demand side is somewhat risk intensive. I doubt the penalty for evading a tax would be much of a deterrent for doing so. We still have moonshiners who perform this exact cost-benefit analysis.

More importantly, the legalize and tax argument distracts from the bigger question of individual liberty.

matt

daddy; shit be careful. The only answer to a sleep addled bear at this time of year if they come at you is measured in decimals of an inch. And you could lose one of them dogs.

Found out tonight that we may become the new parents of an 8 yr old Aussie Shepherd that can do basic calculus. I just hope she can peacefully coexist with the rascals. I love the pups, but damn I miss my old dogs.

I know too well, Soylent. I feel like one of the keepers in Fahrenheit 451. Our home is slightly perverse. I found my copy of "Enpires of the Silk Road" on a garage table 3 years after I read 1/3 of it. Somehow, it just appeared. Fascinating stuff.

Even the public libraries don't consider rare books to be invaluable resources any more. Having spent 4 years using the resources of the NYPL main Library, the British Museum library and various others, the joy is not just in the breadth, but in the ability to pull out masterworks on any subject imaginable.Penn had a great one as well.

The joy of discovery, and then using that discovery out in the real world, is incredible.

Danube of Thought iPad

"DoT, you don't care about the answer."

What I care about is demonstrating that you really have no answer. The question forces you to consider: if the congress and the Supreme Court were both convinced that Obama had been ineligible to take the office, what do you think they would do? What do you even hope, in your wildest dreams, that either of them would do?

I will give you my answer. Why won't you give me yours?

Ralph L

A guy from the sheriff's office came by Saturday and told us about a recent shooting over a few kilos of hydroponic pot, which is much stronger and more expensive than the natural stuff.

Our sheriff was investigated by the fed DoJ for targeting Mexicans, most of whom are illegally here. He's having a press conference later this week about it. He didn't seem interested in backing down the last time he spoke about it.

In the 90's, I heard so many Mexicans lived in our county because the INS concentrated on the more populous Triad and Triangle areas on either side of us. We have several schools that are now majority Hispanic, all of whom arrived in the last 25 years or so.

Threadkiller

As soon as the election was over, there was talk of impeachment, but no charges were filed. After Moodie's inauguration on January 7, 1935, it was revealed that he had voted in a 1932 municipal election in Minnesota. In order to be eligible for governor, an individual has to have lived in the state for five consecutive years before the election. The State Supreme Court determined that Governor Moodie was ineligible to serve, and he was removed from office on February 16, 1935.

http://history.nd.gov/exhibits/governors/governors19.html

Threadkiller

Goodnight.

Soylent Red

matt:
The joy of discovery, and then using that discovery out in the real world, is incredible.

My book problem is largely rooted in the fact that I will never be able to read fast enough to consume all of the free knowledge out there waiting to be explored. I'm like that Burgess Meredith character on the Twilight Zone.

Mr. Ballard:
Imagine the money SCAM could make by mass producing THC-laced Twinkies and Cheetos, and selling franchises to sell them near every major college campus.

The proceeds from the Universities of Colorado and Wisconisn-Madison by themselves would have our descendants unto the third and fourth generation farting in silk.

Danube of Thought iPad

So...the hope is that the US Supreme Court will order Obama to be removed from office if some unspecified thing happens, or if Sheriff Joe...does something. They will act on the power confirmed in them by a 1935 Minnesota decision.

There are people among us who fervently believe that this will happen. There were people among us in the early 60's who fervently believed that Eisenhower was a conscious agent of the Communist Conspiracy, and that Earl Warren could be impeached and removed from office.. Now as then, the best we can do is disassociate ourselves from them. My preferred method is ridicule. My hope is that visitors to JOM will recognize that the obsession of a few individuals with a cuckoo pursuit is not representative, and never goes unchallenged.

Dave (in MA)
I detest this man even more than I detested LBJ.
He ranks himself lower than LBJ as well.
Joan

Soylent Red: I hear that argument a lot and I have to point out: do you believe that the same people who would risk death or imprisonment to transport, sell and use narcotics would have a problem with tax evasion?

It wasn't an argument, it was an opinion. I sort of envision legalizing it as eliminating a majority of the illegality of the drug industry, as in when prohibition ended. During prohibition, the mob and bootleggers ran everything, nothing was taxed, and the mobsters fought each other, did vile things, murdered rivals and lawmen, etc. Then booze became legal. It became legal to make it, market it, and drink it. Every step was taxed, from the raw materials, to the distilleries, liquor stores, etc. Not that I like the IRS, government taxing legal producers and businessmen, people buying a drink, etc., but the government took over the process from beginning to end in the liquor business, and though we might have some illegal stills, and bootlegging, the industry is fairly well monitored. I was just envisioning the same thing for pot.

I have no idea why people go on to cocaine, heroin, meth, and other horrible things--and think it is a symptom of the moral collapse and degradation of our culture. People from every country, every culture have always searched for mood or mind altering drinks and drugs. I have no answers. But I think the war on drugs is a failure, and it is time to do something better. Too many people go to prison for small drug offences. Surely we have brilliant thinkers who can come up with something better.

And, as far as tax evasion, that makes me smile. Of course there would be people evading taxes in the drug trade, but I'm sure people in every industry look for ways to evade taxes. :) I am not very intelligent, and I don't have many answers, and I'm certainly not articulate, but this country has a big problem and I'm just searching for an answer.

daddy

Enough of Birtherism.

You guys want a whacko Conspiracy Theory to sink your teeth into?
I'll give you a whacky Conspiracy Theory you can sink your teeth into.--- The Number 19.

Here's Obama today: White House readies 19 Executive Orders on Guns...

And here's Nation of Islam's Louis Farrakhan on the number 19

Pharaoh Akhenaton was the first man of this history period to destroy the pantheon of many gods and bring the people of the worship of one god, and that one god was symboled by a sun disk with 19 rays coming out of that sun with hands holding Egyptian ankh, the cross of life. Aton. The name for the one god in ancient Egypt...

You're dead, black man. But if you believe in the God who created this sun of truth and of light with 19 rays meaning he's pregnant with God's spirit, God's light, God's wisdom. Abraham Lincoln's statue, 19 feet high, 19 feet wide. Jefferson, 19 feet high, and the third president, 19, standing on the steps of the Capitol in the light of the sun, offering life to a people who are dead. Black man, be atoned, represents the one God...

There in the middle of this mall is the Washington Monument, 555 feet high. But if we put a 1 in front of that 555 feet, we get 1555, the year that our first fathers landed on the shores of Jamestown, Virginia, as slaves. In the background is the Jefferson and Lincoln Memorial. Each one of these monuments is 19 feet high. Abraham Lincoln, the 16th president, Thomas Jefferson the third president, and 16 and 3 make 19 again. What is so deep about this number 19? Why are we standing on the Capitol steps today? That number 19, when you have a nine, you have a womb that is pregnant, and when you have a one standing by the nine, it means that there's something secret that has to be unfolded.

I mean seriously, can I make it any plainer than that?

Frau Spagat

daddy, it was 29 degrees at 7:20 a.m. here in Cleoville when we went out for our morning walk. There were patches of ice where lawns had been watered. We both stumbled on the first spot which we hadn't not anticipated. I avoided my usual pratfall and my husband did a very classy recovery by performing his first ever semi-splits. He remarked that he had not known he could even do such thing.
We saw no moose or bears, only one yodeling beagle.

Danube of Thought iPad

Correction: not Minnesota, North Dakota. And the guy had been in office for five weeks.

daddy

we may become the new parents of an 8 yr old Aussie Shepherd that can do basic calculus.

Matt,

I'm not certain but I think that's what my comment above may have been about:)

Danube of Thought iPad

Don't forget Juneteenth, daddy.

They're all around us, I tell you.

Soylent Red

Joan:

Not attacking you. Just making two points:

1. Nobody will pay the tax because the illicit system is already in place to get dope. Trying to collect a tax will fail the same way trying to keep people from getting/using the product fails.

2. Taxation is beside the point. Whether it's a drink, a cigarette, or a bong hit, as long as it harms no one else and doesn't require me to somehow subsidize the effects, it's a matter of individual liberty. It's legislating that "as long as" part that we should be working out the details on.

and bring the people of the worship of one god, and that one god was symboled by a sun disk with 19 rays coming out of that sun with hands holding Egyptian ankh, the cross of life. Aton

Interesting in that Allah was the name of an Arabic moon god, one of a pantheon of tribal gods, that Islam is based on a lunar calendar as a result of that, and that bowing toward Mecca has direct connection to where the temple of this moon god was located.

Also, 19.

Frau Spagat

Sheesh! "we hadn't not anticipated.

Joan

Soylent Red,
I wasn't taking offense. My idea is probably full of unintended consequences. But, surely at the point of sale, taxes would be collected? Not that there is a big solution there or much money either. I'm just wondering. We can't buy much in this country without paying taxes.

The solution is way beyond me.

:)

daddy

daddy, it was 29 degrees at 7:20 a.m.

Yes Frau,

But if you remove 1 pregnancy (Isaac) from 29, you remove the Jews and leave only Ishmael, the 1 Arabic pregnancy in the pregnant 9, making again 19, the name number as the types of champagne in Thomas Jefferson's Wine Cellar and in President Obama's 19 Executive Orders announced today at 7:20 am, in the local time of Indiana the 19th State, admitted to the Union back in 1861 when Abraham Lincoln was President, who just picked up 19 Academy Award Nominations.

See how clear it's all becoming? Pay ATONtion!

daddy

We saw no moose or bears, only one yodeling beagle

Could it do calculus?

Soylent Red

I believe daddy has polished off a 19-pack.

Porchlight

In my travels over the years I've noticed that almost none of the people who advocate legalization have small children.

Also this: go to a city where marijuana is legal or next to legal. Enjoy a stroll down a main avenue where every - literally - every retail business sells pot smoking equipment. Enjoy the panhandlers on every corner. Imagine running a business on that thoroughfare and what it would entail in terms of inventory and security, and what effect it would have on your customer base.

If you want an example - go to Colfax Avenue in Denver. A total dump. Does it have to be this way? No. But it will be, as long as pot is quasi-legal. And what choice does a business owner have? Zero.

daddy

And here is The Venerable Bede's Hand-Math symbology for the number 9 (Lower Left corner)

And here is Obama today pointing at his favorite number 1

If that 1 and that 9 don't mean 19, then my dogs don't know Calculus!

(A) nuther Bub

I believe daddy has polished off a 19-pack.

Now THAT made me laugh abruptly enough that my alarmed cat just jumped off my lap. "Come back, Kiki. Soylent meant you no harm!"

daddy

A tough call for the Species Protection racket:


Brazilian Bikini Waxes Make Crab Lice Endangered Species

Pubic lice, the crab-shaped insects that have dwelled in human groins since the beginning of history, are disappearing.

Whew. At least we'll still have head lice. For a minute there I was worried all lice species were endangered.

Doctors say bikini waxing may be the reason.

Perhaps the President could issue a 20th Executive Order?

peter

Hey, nineteen. 19 times 4 is 76. See Michael Barone's column on that number LUN

narciso

Well we know Captain, the fate of one who did challenge him, the lies about her were repackaged and recirculated again, starting this week, on Blue Ray as I understand it.

narciso

Those who defame good men like Robert Bork, whole classes of men, like your fellow soldiers, sailors and airmen, in Vietnam, they are promoted and celebrated,

Clarice

Fenton has been called into service to smear Hagel's detractors.http://freebeacon.com/hagel-allies-coordinate-smear-campaign-against-critics-emails-reveal/

When you need to smear a good man or promote a bad idea, there's Fenton.

narciso

Ah, our 'good friend' Charles Freeman, rears his head again, and Fallows, is such an easy mark, as his uncritical endorsement of the MITI system, right before it crashed, showed.

Melinda Romanoff

PPI and Retail Sales pending!

narciso

Really, I didn't sense the extra chocolate rations, I must not have been paying attention,

Janet

My preferred method is ridicule.

Obviously. I don't get why you do it.

Because if, as you say, he simply made stuff up to get ahead, doing so is a huge and counterproductive waste of time. Do you expect that, if only you can make enough people see the truth, he will be impeached? That a court will declare him ineligible for the office he holds?

No, but I would love for him to be ridiculed & diminished by Americans finding out what a phony liar he is.
It is tiresome to hear, read, & see ridicule heaped on conservative politicians & on ordinary Americans trying to find some answers.

Melinda Romanoff

Headline numbers are a yawner, the Non-seasonally adjusted Retail Sales, however, show quite the draw forward from 2013, ahead of the new tax schemes. Up 12.7% for the main Retail Sales figure, and +13.8% excluding auto sales. Shaping up to be a slower-than-expected 2013.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--1. Nobody will pay the tax because the illicit system is already in place to get dope.--

If this were true wouldn't we still have speakeasies and be consuming alcohol prepared in bathtubs and the states and feds being starved of alcohol related tax revenues?
Does anyone have a figure for total alcohol taxes nationally? Pretty substantial I would imagine.

--Enjoy a stroll down a main avenue where every - literally - every retail business sells pot smoking equipment. Enjoy the panhandlers on every corner.--

There's a phrase for such a dump; skid row. I'm proud to say it was originally a logging term (a skid road being the path logs are pulled along to be loaded onto trains or trucks) and was applied to neighborhoods of drunkards because that's what loggers did (do)in the off season and weekends.
There are also entire blighted, crime ridden, almost uninhabitable sections of cities already, where even establishing any type of store front business is next to impossible, so these awful places already exist because the drugs do, not because they are either legal or illegal.

James D.

Janet is absolutely right.

I agree with DoT that there's basically no scenario in which Obama would be impeached or otherwise removed from office, even if there were incontrovertible proof that he was born in Kenya, or on Zeta Reticuli for that matter.

But constant ridicule, and constant questioning of all the lies and distortions and contradictory stories he's told (and still tells) about himself - we should be all over that.

The goal ought to be to change the public view of him from "hip and cool" or whatever it is today, to "what a pathetic, insecure liar".

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