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January 03, 2013

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matt

How many trillions of dollars has the government borrowed from Social Security?

It is a Trust Fund that can't be trusted. It has been robbed and raided since the 1970's to construct castles in the air and falsify any attempt to honestly account for the national budget.

These Leftists are drinking Moloko in ever increasing amounts.

daddy

I thought Al Gore said the money was in a Lock Box?

NK

Soc Sec Denial? I suppose the vast muddle who cling to the misconception that it's THEIR money held 'in Trust' by the 'government, I guess they suffer from denial. The DC politicians and 'advocates'? and Carlos Slim's trained monkeys at the NYT? they aren't in denial -- they know that Soc Sec has always been 'paygo', which is just lying politician speak for PONZI. It's over-- the promises were always lies once there was a baby boom 1946-1960 and a baby bust 1969-1984. coupled with life expectancy increasing to 80+. The lies have been exposed, it's over, this one is easy NO DEFAULT NEEDED, the Feds will just cut the benes dramatically-- means test10-20% out completely and reduce payments to the rest. easy.

NK

From TomM January 3, 2005 post-- exactly 8 years ago:

"These 'IOUs' are Treasury bonds, one of the world's safest investments," said Robert "Greenstein, executive director of the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. "The Treasury, the White House and Congress cannot choose not to pay interest on the bonds or not to redeem them -- unless they're willing to have the U.S. government default for the first time in history."

As I said, I am sure he understands the issues; presumably, he believes that framing it as a default on Treasuries may be helpful in advancing his agenda."

I find the now 8 year old Greenstein and Maguire take on the impossibility of 'defaulting on Treasury Bonds" to be nostalgic and quaint.
In the next few weeks the current POTUS will threaten to do JUST THAT-- rather than cut ONE PENNY of $3.6TRILLION in spending. Next time someone tells you 'never happen'....

NK

Speaking of the Treasury-- Geithner OUT THIS MONTH- I guess TURBO TIMMIE has no stomach to sign phony baloney T-Bonds next month. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-03/geithner-said-to-plan-departure-before-debt-ceiling-deal.html

Thomas Collins
"The trust fund is more than an empty promise, he said, and less than a solemn obligation backed by the full faith and credit of the United States."

In the non-DC, non-Alice in Wonderland World, the SS Trust Fund is a fraudulent device. Let's say you are a trustee of a retirement trust in the real world. Beneficiaries think they are contributing money to the retirement trust. What really happens is the trustee buys non-marketable assets so that the trustee's crack addled alkie relative can spend on his or her addictions. The non-marketable assets are unsecured bonds from the relative, who receives the trust beneficiaries' money in return for the bonds. Such a trustee would be going to the hoosegow in the real world.

NK

TC@1:48-- Correct-- if we started the TC-NK Investment Fund, and conducted it as the federal government runs SocSec-- US Attorney Preet B would have himself a quick conviction for fraud.

matt

The problem is that the revenue stream to pay back those bonds is in doubt. Service the debt has become the single largest expenditure as I recall, with social programs right behind that. So in reality, when one adds the two together it overwhelms the entire revenue stream as we are borrowing 40 cents of every dollar we spend. Next it will be 50 cents and on and on should the whole thing not collapse from the fraud involved.

Throw in Medicare BK one year closer now, and I think Obama will be living on base surrounded by a praetorian guard by the end of his term.

narciso

It's a heist film, like one of the Ocean series, or perhaps the Third Die Hard film, full of plenty of misdirection, but the goods are stolen, and the crew gets its cut,

NK

KRUGMAN FOR TREASURY SEC!!! seriously-- give the US Economy the full Krugman-- it will collapse that much faster- and the faster the debt collapse, the better.

Captain Hate

I thought Al Gore said the money was in a Lock Box?

That's where the swag from the al-Jizz deal is going; possibly the same one where ManBearPig senior put the Armand Hammer payola.

Jane:  Mock the Media

I'm listening to Boehner's speech. He is saying people need to come there to work, not for fame. He's talking to the new people. It seems to me he should be saying this stuff to the people who are already there.

narciso

I think he got the 'TV's Patrick Duffy' leg caught in the bear trap, because the sale went through after the 31st, the world is actually slightly stranger then South Park.

Old Lurker

I am so tired of the dems and the dimwits not understanding the cash flow of SS that I despair of ever seeing this country come to grips with its debt problem until it is too late.

Assuming it is not already.

It is time to put all of our affairs on the table, yes including this scam and all other "entitlements", and then decide what we as a country are willing to do so long as the sum total is within our means.

narciso

Danny Ocean's got nothing on this Dean Baker character, his scams were pitifully small, now the CBO didn't factor a downturn into their calculations, shocker,

NK

SorryOL- it is waaayyyy too late; there was a CHANCE to make medicare/SS solvent in 1995, but BillyC demagogued Gingrich and the Contract House Repubs to death-- and that chance ended forever, right there. That 1995 'shut down' was also the event where the Dems and Legacy media officially became one permanent team. It's way past saving now, because now we are at a point of T-Bond debt default, in one form or another. The faster it happens the better IMO.

RichatUF

matt-

About 2.5 trillion or so.

Old Lurker-

Not anytime soon I'm afraid. Taxes still are high enough for the administration and the article which is the subject of this post says "oh don't look at Social Security its fine". SS just happens to be the second largest line item in the budget.

When we had a Republican adinistration and a Republican congress we couldn't defund PBS or repeal the light bulb ban, with the clown show now in charge, what are the odds that anything serious to get the fiscal house in order will be proposed.

Old Lurker

I know, NK, I know. I say let's call it welfare and treat it like we used to treat welfare. Erase the "Notes" and put the $49B on budget along with all the other payments we make to whomever we make them or promise them.

NK

RichatUF@2:26-- I agree with that-- thus I say the faster the default the better because the damage will be less worse. NO DEBT CEILING INCREASE-- period. The Fed has to be told to get by on $2.8 T/yr in revenue. If these 535 crooks in Congress can't do it?... default of T-Bond interest, on SS payments and Medicare/Medicaid payments until we elect a crew than can get it done.

Old Lurker

Rich, don't go making fun of my lifetime supply of 75 & 100W incandescent bulbs.

Danube of Thought iPad

Hell, G.W. Bush signed the light bulb bill into law.

And I've got a lifetime supply of 100's, 60's and 40's.

RichatUF

Hummm...maybe I can place an order with DoT and Old Lurker.

and I left out a not in my above post...

Pete

Social Security is not what is taking my rights away. The EPA, Homeland Security, FDA etc are destroying my rights. At least with Social security I will get something back. I get nothing from these government agencies.

Rather than social security we need to do something about government salaries, size and benefits. We need to cut these agencies all together. When we have a small efficient government then come back and talk to me about social security.

The denial is about all the things that we need to cut or eliminate. It is the obsession with benefits people paid into and in my opinion this mindset cost the GOP the election in November.

NK

Even Teammate Politico admits that it's the spending, and that the Repubs will not increase taxes again. Politico however wrongly assumes 'Bam will fight the Leftwing Dems and push through entitlement reforms in exchange for more debt authority. I think Politico's wrong-- Bam IS the LeftWing-- he will default on certain interest payments to keep spending as much as possible IMO -- or issue bogus T-Bonds. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/obamas-debt-problem-85708.html?hp=f1

boatbuilder

If money is free and they can solve all our problems just by printing more of it or borrowing more of it or doing whatever it is they propose other than spending less money (or just maybe slowing the rate of growth of spending slightly) then why the hell do they need to keep raising taxes?

NK

Sorry Pete-- you're entitled to you value judgements, but the harsh reality is that the coming default is being triggered by Tax revenues being depressed by the Dems anti-business regs and the Fed's ZIRP policies, and entitlement spending. You are right of course that the spending orgy the Dems went on in 2009 should be cut entirely, and all federal departments cut by 10% immediately. I agree. OK-- that still leaves us $600-800B/year in the hole due to Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, long -term unemployment, and the BIG one Soc Sec (retirement and disability). Those have to change -- that's not a value judgment-- that's arithmatic.

narciso

And Politico won't gin up the next push for taxes, as they did flacking for the ARRA, and Obamacare and dodd/frank due tell.

fdcol63

Liberals know full well what financial peril we're in because of SS, other entitlements, and other "unfunded liabilities". Just watch this video from CBS's 60 Minutes, which aired way back in July 2007, in which David Walker, the former Comptroller General of the US, tried to warn everybody even back then:

Wake Up Call

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuCgxDbOgqM

fdcol63

Or use CBS's own link, which shows the air date, and muddle through the ad at the beginning:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2534935n

NK

fdcol63-- in truth, you can go back to the late 1980s with Pete Peterson and warren Rudman's entitlement warnings, or Ross Perot in 1992. None of this is a secret-- it's a conspiracy of silence by the crooks in DC.

Agent J

I have publicly advocated that we go back to FY 2008, an slash all Government employe's benefits by 20% for starters..

What are the Government employes going to do, quit working? That would not be a change for many of them..are they going to quite? most of them could not find any other employment..if they could have, they would not be Government employees..

NK

AgentJ-- that's a plan. One thing though-- if you go back to the FY2008 ACTUAL spending levels, then you'd have to cut SS payments to beneficiaries by about 10% from current levels, and medicare payments to Drs. and hospitals about 20+%. But with the payroll taxes restored and the small $450K revenue bump-- we'd be getting close to balance. Repeal Obamacare and open up shale oil and nat gas-- and yeah we'd be quite close to balance. Hey-- that was pretty much the RR plan-- IT LOST 51-48%.

narciso

Remember the 'War on Math' Math lost, to unicorn dust,

fdcol63

NK, you're right. They have all known for many, many years that we're on an unsustainable path, but they refuse to do the difficult task of making the tough choices and reforms necessary to prevent the economic collapse.

I fear that Obama's spending and his re-election mean certain doom, because he's accelerating the damage and I believe it's his objective.

NK

Narc@321-- very true.

fdcol63-- 'the economic collapse' It's very important that we define terms-- the DEBT and reulation like Obamacare and Cap/Trade are the cause of economic collapse. DEFAULT is the mechanism to unwind the debt and rollback Obamacare and Regs. So I say-- EMBRACE the default. As ugly and costly -- and painful to the 47%-- as it will be-- the default is better than collapse. Collapse is worse for everyone, especially the 47%.

rse

That's his intention fd says the lady with more blueprints than the average architect.

But I took some time to mull at the beach and picked up on some aspects that I knew but had not recognized as fitting. That Chicago Annenberg Challenge clearly is the gift that may have bolstered his political career but it is truly a liability when you pull back the rhetoric on what the profs say they intend.

daddy

Sorry Matt,

(Thanks for the invite) but I'm out of here to the Airport in about 45 minutes. What I like about LA:

The Mexican TV Channels: The girls are all amazingly hot, marvelous skin, great "attributes", and innocent as all git out.

And the McDonald's across the street has 2 (two) lanes you can drive up in to announce your order into the speakers. Man, I am from the sticks.

And from what I just read at Insty:

Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) is signaling that at least one thing will change about his leadership during the 113th Congress: he’s telling Republicans he is done with private, one-on-one negotiations with President Obama.

Seems like his incandescent, EPA approved, mercury vapor lightbulb just flickered on.

narciso

'with the poise of an athlete,' daddy, yes that's where Mrs. Pena Nieto, Angelica Romero,
comes from,

narciso

A question, rse, you said Maxine Greene was Ayer's mentor, but this other person who taught at the Art Institute, where the two terrorist/junkie/hunter types went to school, collaborated on two books with Ayers,

fdcol63

NK, when I say "economic collapse", I mean just that: a situation reminiscent of Weimar Germany, where hyper-inflation has caused total anarchy, all normal municipal services like garbage collection and emergency services are no longer being performed because everyone, including police, firemen, EMT's, etc etc are busy simply trying to protect themselves and their families, and trying to obtain basic food and shelter, we've basically devolved into a barter system or trade in precious metals if you've got it, etc etc.

It's out of this anarchy that the fascists, Communists, or whatever authoritarian despot wannabees will emerge, as saviors to restore some semblence of order and "peace" ... but the price will be our freedom and liberty, as it always is.

narciso


that does appear to be the objective;


http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles5/GlazovDalrymple.php

All these zombie films, seem to have that real life subtext.

NK

Default could be hyperinflation; OR restructuring treasury debt; OR defaulting on Medicare/medicaid/SocSec obligations. As with Weimar-- to me hyperinflation poses the greatest risk of social disorder. So I would opt for one of the other defaults. But simply ignoring the debt (as we have for the past 5 years) guarantees the type of social disorder weimar and Argentina experienced.

narciso

No, the hyperinflation was relatively temporary,
that ended by 1924, with Stresseman and the Dawes Plan, It was deflation and massive unemployment, accelerated by the cutting off of overseas capital, due to Smoot Hawley, that brought about the collapse of Weimar, and ultimately the rise of Hitler.

fdcol63

narciso, you're right, again. Thanks for the reminder.

Melinda Romanoff

Smoot-Hawley collapsed world trade, which also ushered in Tojo in Japan following the collapse of oil deliveries.

narciso

You're welcome, fd, it is important to get the cause and effect right, otherwise it looks like this;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/dave-barrys-year-in-review-2012/2012/12/18/8aaa4dd2-3f37-11e2-bca3-aadc9b7e29c5_print.html

rse

narciso-which other person?

I am sure on Greene but he has lots of collaborators. Noddings is one.

If you give me name I usually know. And it is always always about Dewey.

NK

Narc-- weimar indeed survived the default of debt (reparation) payments. It even survived the hyperinflation. The depression coupled with ongoing reparation debt radicalized German politics. When the depression hit, the reparation debt was the disease that radicalized germany worse than the Western democracies. We have placed ourselves at peril from the debt we created-- STOP adding to the peril. No more debt-- additional debt will cause more pain than defaulting on entitlement obligations now.

narciso

I know, too many cooks, this one;


Current University of Illinois at Chicago associate art professor Therese Quinn taught at SAIC at the time Gliedman attended the school. Quinn also served as undergraduate division chair.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/01/greenwich-village-bomb-making-suspects-have-upper-class-left-wing-ties/#ixzz2Gww5KB3x

centralcal

I am thread hopping and posting this link because it is such a horror!

Ding Dong the Witch is NOT Dead

heh.

Clarice

She IS ugly, but she wears very UGLY and very EXPENSIVE clothes..

narciso

Sorry, this last part is more significant


She also worked with Ayers as an editor on “Teaching for Social Justice: A Democracy and Education Reader” (1998) and “Refusing Racism: White Allies and the Struggle for Civil Rights” (2002).

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/01/greenwich-village-bomb-making-suspects-have-upper-class-left-wing-ties/#ixzz2GwxNBb7R

Appalled

Centralcal's picture brings to mind the question of the poet....

"Is this the face that launched 1,000 ships..."

The context, of course, is somewhat different.

narciso

After the Arab Spring, has turned into a NorthEaster, after Park 50 was revealed to be merely a Mosque, after Hillary broke bread with a supporter of CAIR who is now the Libyan foreign minister, they come to this conclusion;

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/muslim-shariah-republican-herman-cain-grover-norquist-allen-west

fdcol63

I'm not even sure that's a "she".

NK

... and she was allowed to breed...

narciso

I agree with most in this story, except for the last part, they had been ramping up for the better part of a year;

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/03/a-twist-in-the-benghazi-saga.html

rse

narc-look who wrote intro for that Social Justice Reader--Maxine.

The thing with the Arts Institute again goes back to Dewey and his preference for the aesthetic over the rational mind. A bunch of rooms at the Art Institute and I believe a whole wing was donated by his daughter. Howard Gardner, Ken Robinson, and Elliott Eisner are just 3 who rose to ed top and big bucks pushing art as the entry point as a backdoor to the emotional, nonrational mind.

Remember CASEL is at U Illinois Chicago as is Global Perspectives that is completely gutting the nature of higher ed. Social Justice requires taking out the rational mind.

I think this sort of thing will become more common. Kids are taught to hate the status quo without any understanding of what made it worked and all of ed is priming to imagine a different future. There are no safeties on the mindset being fostered unless parents put them there and that requires awareness and time.

narciso

Hence, they are trying to institutionalize 'the two minute hate' which in some cases has been going on for years now,

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Ding Dong the Witch is NOT Dead--

Keith Richard would not look significantly different in that outfit, although marginally better, even if slightly less masculine.

AliceH

Where is JMHanes?

AliceH

I hasten to add... my query has no -repeat- no connection to the current subject of discussion!

rse

http://uic.academia.edu/ThereseQuinn

She and Ayers publish a great deal together.

I find her Fulbright to Finland in 2009 interesting as I consider that a great scam misunderstanding the nature of PISA coupled with misunderstanding Finland.

maryrose

Rosa DeLauro must have aspirations of becoming a rock star. That outfit reminds me of "Kiss" and she won't even need the pancake make-up. She done got hit with the ugly stick.
Why are democrat women politicians so bad -looking? Hil Pelosi and Rosa plus DWS come to mind...

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--... and she was allowed to breed...--

Yes, but would the result be human?
Same species or not? You be the judge;


rse

http://arthistory.aa.uic.edu/files/CV/Quinn.pdf

Started off at Sacramento City College. Love that self designed masters after the Fine Arts bachelors from Art Institute.

This is a woman who radiates knowledge and erudition. Not.

Stevesturm

Notwithstanding the math, politicians have been screaming that the social security sky is falling for upwards of 30 years. The same holds for those who scream that the deficit (of which social security is but a component) is going to ruin us all.

Given this, is it any wonder that the public isn't clamoring for huge cuts in spending? That Republicans such as Christie and King scream because they're not getting their share of the pie fast enough?

History is pretty clear that Americans do not react in advance to head off problems, we very much wait until something happens before we pay attention. WWII, 9/11, housing crash, why should the fight over social security be any different?

Danube of Thought iPad

My first thought was Keith Richards in drag. Looks like the south end of a mule walking north.

Jack is Back

On our way out to dinner but wanted to thank NK and JimmyK for their understanding in my SNAFU last night. Having Christmas on a Tuesday can really screw up the calendar and I thought we had mad arrangements for the 3rd but I had said "Wednesday the 3rd". So, I had to be called to the caucus instead being there already:)

Short but nice meet up to get to know everyone even if brief. But a pre-arranged dinner called. Back to Southampton tomorrow afternoon.

Walking up 54th to the hotel we had passed a "outdoorsman" wrapped snugly in a black blanket and black parka with hoody sitting on the sidewalk surrounded by magazines and books as well as discarded coffee containers (Starbuck, natch). Today he was there again, same spot, reading a Christopher Reichs thriller. As we walked by Frederick turned to Mrs. Jib and said "you told me reading would get me anywhere":)

The truth of the innocents.

matt

definitely Mrs. Spock.She's pretty close to Vulcan ears already.

Extraneus

WSJ: Restaurants Happy To Dodge A Fiscal Cliff Bullet

Some executives in the restaurant industry are breathing a sigh of relief that the fiscal cliff has been averted.

Economic uncertainty hits restaurants particularly hard since consumers have a choice about where to spend their food dollars. And if tax increases reduce the disposable income of the middle class, one of the first industries to feel the changes in spending habits is restaurants: customers eat out less, or go for cheaper meals.

So the fact that a deal has been struck – however incomplete – is giving restaurateurs hope that people will increase their visits. And it’s led some to start planning for expansion again.

“I’ve had four calls today from existing franchisees wanting to expand,” said Dan DiZio, chief executive of Philly Pretzel Factory, a chain of 125 pretzel shops. “Uncertainty is a killer in any business and the pretzel business is not exempt.”

Etc.

Jack is Back

Being white, college educated with a job in Chicago or living in Hyde Park is as goods as a Kevlar vest and having a legal CCW with a Glock. Murder divided by race.

NY Times graphic

daddy

I think she's more of a reverse Lysistrata---somebody who would make the Spartans and Athenians scramble like crazy to get back to war.

MarkO

Has to be Keef.

Clarice

I've been missing JMH, too, Alice.

RichatUF

centralcal, that photo is going to give me nightmares for a week.

Alice-

If you have her email address you can probably get a hold of her. She's taking a sabbatical from the comments section.

Clarice

DeLauro may be ugly but she's rich, rich, rich and that horrendous outfit she's wearing probably cost more than the substantial down payment we made on our first house.

Clarice

EPA takes another hit--this one in Virginia:

"RICHMOND (January 3, 2012) - Late this afternoon, a federal judge accepted arguments made by Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli and ruled that the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has exceeded its authority by attempting to regulate water itself as a pollutant by imposing restrictions on the flow of stormwater into Fairfax County's Accotink Creek. The effect of this ruling could save Virginia taxpayers more than $300 million in unnecessary costs.

EPA had previously issued an edict that would cut the flow of water into the creek by nearly half, in an effort to address the sediment flow on the bottom of the creek. In regulating the flow rate of stormwater into the creek, the agency was trying to regulate water itself as a pollutant, rather than the sediment. The attorney general challenged the EPA's action as exceeding the agency's legal authority to regulate pollutants under the Clean Water Act (CWA). These restrictions also would have diverted public funds that could be spent more effectively on stream restoration for Accotink Creek and other waterways in the region.

Judge Liam O'Grady agreed with co-plaintiffs VDOT (represented by the attorney general) and Fairfax County, saying in his ruling that federal law simply does not grant EPA the authority it claims. The Clean Water Act gives the EPA the authority to establish TMDLs - Total Maximum Daily Loads - regulating maximum acceptable levels of pollutants that may be discharged on a daily basis into a particular waterway. The problem for the EPA is that water is not a pollutant under the CWA. "The Court sees no ambiguity in the wording of [the federal Clean Water Act]. EPA is charged with establishing TMDLs for the appropriate pollutants; that does not give them the authority to regulate nonpollutants," O'Grady said."

jimmyk

In other words, supplement Social Security out of general revenue. It was a plausible suggestion, and it is exactly what we are doing now in an economic sense if not a Trust Fund accounting sense.

That's a slippery slope. Payroll taxes are the only thing that keeps the 47% with skin and the game, and I prefer to keep the "based on a true story" fiction that there's a connection between what you pay in and what you get back. Even better that "what you get back" realistically on real growth, at least for those under 55.

[Excellent point. TM]

Danube of Thought iPad

Off to meet jimmyk for a Martini in a couple of hours.

Danube of Thought iPad

What should the congress expect will happen to them if they fail to heed the warning of the North American Law Center?

RichatUF

No doubt. Sure the designer is running a pretty good scam on her. The most ridicilous outfits at premium prices but always stroking her ego as to how great she looks.

But what do I know, she's rich and in congress, and I'm in a secret undisclosed location ...

Frau Morgen, Morgen nur nicht heute

"History is pretty clear that Americans do not react in advance to head off problems, we very much wait until something happens before we pay attention.

It's the story of my people.

Frau Morgen, Morgen nur nicht heute

JMH has also been on my mind.

Clarice

The dopes at Democratic Underground are starting to catch on--they noticed their employers are deducting more payroll taxes..HEH

Rocco

Wasn't her husband involved in a shady real estate deal with Rahm Emanuel?

Rocco

Oh yeah, BP...what a bunch of hypocrites. Like Gore selling his network to Qatar owned al Jazeera, one of the biggest oil producing countries in the world. So much for global warming!

narciso

Well at some point, BP had become 'Beyond Petroleum,' as Mark Steyn has reminded us, that's why they were deep into the AGW/Climate scam, and they had corresponding directors with Goldman, but as with Podesta, they were compromised by big oil connections,

cathyf
How many trillions of dollars has the government borrowed from Social Security?
ALL of it.

Imagine you knew somebody who spent more than he earned every month. He put it all on credit cards, and he paid the minimum balances, but every month he went further and further into debt.

He also had a savings account, and every month he dutifully "saved" money by depositing it into his account.

Now his credit cards are maxed out. He has $50,000 of credit card debt, and is going to bankruptcy court.

He is outraged, OUTRAGED, that the first thing that the court orders is that the $20,000 in his "savings" account be used to partially pay off his creditors.

But I PAID INTO that account! I EARNED that money!!! That's DIFFERENT MONEY! You can't take that it's MINE!!!!

Every single solitary year since social security was started, the US government has spent more that year than all of the taxes -- including so-called "social security taxes" -- that the government has collected. None of those "social security taxes" had anything to do with the social security benefits of the people paying the taxes. Every penny -- and lots more borrowed pennies -- went to fund the level of government spending that the people's duly elected representatives voted to have. The government spending has already long ago taken place (ok, a huge amount has been since 2009 not so long ago!) But it's gone, it's spent. Just like the guy borrowing money to put into his "savings" account, it's not his money, because he already spent it!

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