Now The Liar Warns Us That Everyone Else Is Lying

Ali Soufan, a former FBI interrogator, takes to the NY Times to warn us that much of the official reporting about enhanced interrogation is based on lies:

John O. Brennan, a former C.I.A. official and now President Obama’s nominee to head the agency, recently testified that the classified report raised “serious questions” about information he received when he was the agency’s deputy executive director. Mr. Brennan said publicly what many of us — who were in interrogation rooms when the program was devised — have been warning about for years: senior officials, right up to the president himself, were misled about the enhanced interrogation program.

That's interesting. We presume he has examples:

For instance, a 2005 Justice Department memo claimed that waterboarding led to the capture of the American-born Qaeda member Jose Padilla in 2003. Actually, he was arrested in 2002, months before waterboarding began, after an F.B.I. colleague and I got details about him from a terrorist named Abu Zubaydah. Because no one checked the dates, the canard about Mr. Padilla was repeated as truth.

Groan. That's it? We have hashed this out rereatedly - per the DoJ Inspector general's report (p. 111) and reporting in Newsweek and the NY Times, Zubaydah was captured in the spring of 2002. A team of CIA and FBI interrogators (including Mr. Soufan) worked on him, and the CIA moved to what the FBI described as "borderline torture" almost immediately. The memo authorizing enhanced interrogation was dated August 1, 2002 but some of the enhanced tecnhiques (but not waterboarding) were employed against Zubaydah before that date.

Mr. Soufan has misled on this before. Here he is in an April 2009 guest Times piece (my emphasis):

It is inaccurate, however, to say that Abu Zubaydah had been uncooperative. Along with another F.B.I. agent, and with several C.I.A. officers present, I questioned him from March to June 2002, before the harsh techniques were introduced later in August.

And yet Soufan was complaining of the "borderline torture" of Zubaydah in the spring of 2002 and Mr. Johnstone of the NY Times described this:

Within days, Mr. Zubaydah was being subjected to coercive interrogation techniques — he was stripped, held in an icy room and jarred by earsplittingly loud music — the genesis of practices later adopted by some within the military, and widely used by the Central Intelligence Agency in handling prominent terrorism suspects at secret overseas prisons.

Not waterboarding, but not a good time, either. So how did that get dropped from  Mr. Soufan's account?

And his current description of the OLC memo is false. Today, he writes this:

For instance, a 2005 Justice Department memo claimed that waterboarding led to the capture of the American-born Qaeda member Jose Padilla in 2003.

Hmm. The memo claimed that enhanced interrogation techniques generally, not waterboarding specifically, led to Padilla. That said, the correct arrest date was May 2002, which means the harsh springtime interrogation of Zubaydah (prior to written approval of the EITs) was credited with the Padilla intel.

Based on Mr. Soufan's efforts I think it is fair to conclude that lies are being told about the enhanced interrogation program.

Comments

[matt]

what? sitting in your underwear in a cold room listening to Ozzie Osbourne at 110 Db is torture? I would say a good percentage of our troops on the line in A'stan are doing this from October-March anyway.

[Clarice]

The incredible persistance of lies and liars.

[narciso]

This is one of the problems I have with ZD 30, the depictions of 'Amarr' provided blind alleys
and wild goose chases, sounds like the guff that Soufan gave to Mayer, and Priest, including the 'Torture' scenes.

[MarkO]

Once one is aware that bald face lying carries no repercussions, the way is clear.

Even if such lying were to be made public, through the MSM, the response would be, "What difference does it make?"

You think this isn't DOOM?

[narciso]

Thiessen did much to uncover much of this folderall, in part pointing out from the IG report, how Soufan's partner Gaudin, was not
as 'verklempt' with the treatment of these detainees.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--The incredible persistance of lies and liars.

Posted by: Clarice | February 24, 2013 at 01:07 PM --

Most people seem incapable of dealing with the world as it is and so they spend they're whole lives lying it into the world they want.
Which would be fine if they just lied to themselves, but they are always intent on making the rest of us live in their fantasy world and so they try to force us to nod our heads at them and say "you're right, very good point" even though they know we're really thinking "you insane, lying bastard".

[narciso]

You might as well explain, air to a fish though;

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/02/23/bush-cia-director-zero-dark-thirty-portrayal-cia-interrogations-not-f

[Jack is Back]

Isn't the secret to lying is to remember exactly the lie you tell so you don't keep changing it. That makes it a lie-lie versus a lie.

h/t Whoopi Goldberg

[Captain Hate]

Is McRINO gonna be at the Academy Awards tonight with his fellow movie critics Levin and DiFi? Lots of designer togas on display for those who can stand to watch such disgusting egos.

[Captain Hate]

This just in: Dirk Nowitzki can still nail the three.

[narciso]

Yes, this is the problem, however I have noticed the above narrative not only in Mayer, but Graff's Threat Matrix, and Wiener's Enemies;

From the Thiessen link, 'Gibson' is Gaudin:

The DOJ Report continues: “During his interview with OIG, Gibson did not express as much concern about the techniques used as Thomas did. Gibson stated, however, that during the period he was working with the CIA, the CIA shaved Zubaydah’s head, sometimes deprived Zubaydah of clothing, and kept the temperatures in his cell cold. [REDACTED]. Gibson said that the CIA personnel assured him that the procedures being used on Zubaydah had been approved ‘at the highest levels’ and Gibson would not get in any trouble. Gibson stated that during the CIA interrogations Zubaydah ‘gave up’ Jose Padilla and indentified several targets for future al-Qaeda attacks, including the Brooklyn Bridge and the Statue of Liberty [emphasis added].”

[Jack is Back]

We're racing.

That was short lived as Jeff Gordon takes the lead in less than 1/2 a lap. Danica in 2nd.

[Danube of Thought iPad]

Very fine job of fisking.

[Jack is Back]

Does anyone ever remember a POTUS turning to deep pocket donors to finance the pollitics of his agenda?

I am surprised this NY Times article isn't front and center of TM's Sunday bread basket.

I am sort of surprised, knowing the regime, they are just using taxpayers to fund these lobbying initiatives.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Is McRINO gonna be at the Academy Awards tonight with his fellow movie critics Levin and DiFi?

I'll be shocked if Bambi doesn't show up to tell us he got bin Laden - in case you didn't know.

So how long does the race take JIB, if someone wanted to tune in at the end?

[Jack is Back]

Jane,

They are 1/3rd done. 74 of 200 laps. Started at 1:20. So, with the obligatory wrecks and cautions, tune in around 4pm for the exciting end.

Go Danica:)

[Sue]

Capt'n,

I just complained on Facebook about how the game is virtually tied but liastening to these asinine announcers you would think the trio of Brysnt, Nash and Howard were beating the crap out of Dirk.

[narciso]

You get a notion of who they despitse by the treatment of same, case in point, Rutenberg's
savaging of Michael Goldfarb, who was one of the
only good hires on McCain's staff, who vouched for Sarah, re Julianne's Bender, and who is giving them more then a little agita re Hagel, one of their sources, the slithering Mr. Fang of 'Think Regress, a odious drone out of Sector 7G

[narciso]

Well Sue, why would they let facts, get in the way of the voices in their head.

[Sue]

They hate Mark Cuban and Dirk doesn't get the respect he deserves because of it.

[narciso]

Well here is the piece I'm referring to, using Lee Fang, who conjured a good deal of the Koch hate, as any kind of objective observer, rankles.

http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/dont-miss-this-surprisingly-good-piece.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AmericanPower+%28American+Power%29

[Frau Plumpsklosett]

" the voices in their head."

I try to stay clear of talking commodes. Speaking of which, Claire McCaskill blathered on and on today about the evil Republicans trying to thwart her righteous party. Ignoring actual facts: is a learned or natural gift?

The Show Me state is showing too much.

[narciso]

Mystery Projection Theatre 3000

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/02/that-new-senator-has-a-list-in-hand-but-its-not-ted-cruz/

[Jack is Back]

When you've lost Candy Crowley.

She pulls a "Romney moment" on Ray LaHood.

Watch Ray squirm. The narrative is cracking.

[narciso]

Meanwhile Stuart Stevens is unwilling to admit that William Hurt was 'less in the tank' than
the MSM, for Obama.

[Danube of Thought iPad]

Apparently the Blade Runner thought his girlfriend was an intruder while he was smashing her skull with a cricket bat, too:

"Olympic sprinter Oscar Pistorius crushed his girlfriend’s skull with a cricket bat before shooting her dead, police have told her family. Details of the post-mortem examination of South African model Reeva Steenkamp were withheld from last week’s bail application hearing. But grieving relatives who saw her body before Tuesday’s cremation in Port Elizabeth described horrific injuries from the cricket bat, and entry wounds from 9mm bullets fired by Pistorius."

[Danube of Thought iPad]

Sorry, Sue. It was a good game, fairly officiated and impartially described by a fine broadcast team.

Yuk yuk.

[Captain Hate]

Dirk will be a first ballot HOFer. The championship 2 years ago solidified that in the minds of the voters who may have otherwise not been paying attention to the overall excellence of his career.

[matt]

This just in....

The Los Angeles Lakers beat the Dallas Mavericks, again.

No, it's not about Cuban. He's great. It is two of the old guard teams that just don't have the formula for the Finals this year. But a great game regardless.

[Captain Hate]

Van Gundy has gotten better since Fatass Jackson went off to coach Golden State (and has done a much better job than I'd predicted; Jerry West FTW) and he's concentrated more on the game at hand; he still thinks he's a lot funnier than he really is, though.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Perhaps Ms Crowley has realized her employment prospects suck.

[hit and run]

Frau:
I try to stay clear of talking commodes.

A characterization of my blog I cannot in good conscience make any effort to refute.

[Jack is Back]

Jane,

Time to tune in. Less than 80 miles to go plus one more pit stop. If under green, nothing mor exciting. Pit crews can win races.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

I'm watching. However I admit I don't get the thrill.

[Danube of Thought iPad]

Where is Danica?

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

She was 9th. The best finish by a woman before today is 11th.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Patrick is now in 3rd.

[narciso]

Isikoff's account is countered by subsequent sources including wikileaks files

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/did-enhanced-interrogation-20th-hijacker-help-identify-bin-laden-s-courier_559066.html

[Jack is Back]

Danica is back to 6 after caution with 8 to go. Also first woman to ever lead a lap at the 500. Sprint finish Green/White. Hard to pass with 6th generation restrictor plate engines. Got to go low.

[Jack is Back]

She's back to 3rd w/4 to go.

[narciso]

They apparently don't realize the 'West Wing' was not real;

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/12923#.USqHoVeEE_z

[Jack is Back]

Jimmy Johnson wins Patrick finishes 8. No HP to finish.

[maryrose]

Way to go Danica!
Matthews in insinuating that Bammy cares about the military and is about to get his clock cleaned wrt the sequestter is putting lipstick on a pig. Why not just say: Hey I think the repubs jammed us up big time and we were dopes for suggesting it. Bammy lied about sequester during the debates and said it would not happen.Hey Obama-sequester this!

[Jack is Back]

I am surprised that TM hasn't mentioned the most distressing news of the day.

Curtis Granderson breaks his forearm and is out for 10 weeks. But that's okay since they still have Travis Hafner to pick up his tools:)

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--Apparently the Blade Runner thought his girlfriend was an intruder while he was smashing her skull with a cricket bat, too:--

His brother seems to have a thing about killing women as well although his seems to be closer to a manslaughter or negligent homicide type crime.

[Chubby]

I read that he used the cricket bat to smash the bathroom door in after the shooting.

[Old Lurker]

Jane, Candy could try out for next year's SI swimsuit issue.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

It was mentioned several days ago that there was evidence he had used a cricket bat to smash her head.

[Chubby]

I used to like Candy Crowley when I watched CNN, that interview is how I remember her. So I was surprised by her debate performance, and I am also surprised she is leaving CNN.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Oh dear OL.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

I agree with Chubby. I remember, when I used to watch CNN, that she was the only one there that could be counted on to ask hard questions of both sides. She stood out for her professionalism. I hope that debate performance was an anomaly.

I also happen to think she'd be rather attractive were she to lose about half of herself.

[Frau Unsichtbar]

"When you've lost Candy Crowley."

For that, Candy will need a size XXXL ghillie suit.

[NK]

Agree with DoT @1:54 fine fisking of Ali S and the NYT.
I guess I should feel guilty about pointing out to TOmM that with the Granderson injury the Yanks are well short of talent right now.

[Danube of Thought iPad]

"I read that he used the cricket bat to smash the bathroom door in after the shooting."

That's what he said in his affidavit, which has not yet been subjected to cross-examination. He knew they had the cricket bat, and that it had blood on it.

Now he's got to come up with an explanation for the massive head injuries discovered at the post mortem.

[Frau Unsichtbar]

Iggy, when her defining moment came, Candy's "troof" sucked. Can a person unsuck?

[Thomas Collins]

In another example of declining standards, Jenna Jameson was arrested on suspicion of DUI when she rammed her car into a pole. There was a time when erotic entertainers knew that a pole was for slithering around, not for car ramming!

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--Can a person unsuck?-

I haven't watched CNN for years.
If her moment of troof was a one time event in an otherwise professional career then I'd like to think she could unsuck herself. :)

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

What kind of hyper-violent nut is satisfied with neither simply bashing a girl's head in nor pumping four slugs into her, but has to do both?

[NK]

Roid/testosterone rage?

[centralcal]

Hi, struggling to catch up...been doing yard work in anticipation of Spring coming one of these days.

Chubby wrote about Candy Crowley above...and I am also surprised she is leaving CNN.

Where did you see that she is leaving CNN? Do you have a link?

Also, haven't really followed the details of the Pistorius case - smashed her head with a cricket bat AND shot her. Good grief.

[Frau Unsichtbar]

Good guess, NK. That may well apply to the late Christopher Dorner.

[Janet]

The mighty theologian, Sally Quinn has more advice for the Catholic Church.

The WaPo 'On Faith' section also features a Methodist minister that doesn't believe the Bible. It's okay not to believe the Bible...but how in the world someone that doesn't believe the Bible is a minister is beyond me.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--The mighty theologian, Sally Quinn--

We just call her The Mighty Quinn for short.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Iggy, when her defining moment came, Candy's "troof" sucked. Can a person unsuck?

I will never ever forgive her for her destruction of Mitt Romney. I hope her fat ass stays unemployed for ever.

I understand she is being let go in Zucker's quest to be MSNBC lite.

[narciso]

Well I've come to think the Post, is a figment of someone's imagination, much like the chupacabra.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

but how in the world someone that doesn't believe the Bible is a minister is beyond me.

I found out recently some people in the UU church are atheists. It doesn't compute for me.

[Frau Unsichtbar]

You and me all the way, Jane (@6:46). Crowley didn't even get 40 pieces of anything. She must order her knee pads from The Duluth Trading Co.
PFUI!

[gmax]

If Daddy is around I have a query.

Friday night I go out to the local pub for dinner. Big banner announcing a new ale, Alaskan Amber. I try it and it was pretty good.

I go to a friend's house for dinner last night, he opens the fridge and pulls out, you guessed it, a bottle of Alaskan Amber.

So this ambrosia of the gods has made it to DFW. Is this something that has been the rage in Alaska or what is the story of this brew?

[Chubby]

((He knew they had the cricket bat, and that it had blood on it))

if it was a premeditated murder, as charged, he doesn't seem to have planned it very well ...

if it appeared to the judge that he killed her in a sudden rage, would the charge have been manslaughter?

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--I found out recently some people in the UU church are atheists.--

It would surprise me if the majority weren't.
A UU church exists primarily for people to get together on Sundays and think warm fuzzy thoughts about their fellow congregants, and by extension themselves.

It's the answer posed by the name of Flip Wilson's "Church of What's Happening Now?"
Answer? I Am.

[Chubby]

Jane, too bad Mitt didn't have you for his campaign manager.

((Romney Chief Strategist Stu Stevens: Media Wasn't In Tank For Obama)) RCP video that I can't link to cuz typepad won't let me. With blinkered friends like that Romney did not need enemies.

[Jack is Back]

UU, sanctuary for progs, reds and pacifists.

[Chubby]

just realized that the judge didn't charge, that would have been the police

[narciso]

I made that point, with the 'Altered States' reference, Chubby, is Stevens really that stupid,

[Danube of Thought iPad]

I don't know how SA justice works, but in the US the prosecutors do the charging, and they very frequently overcharge. This sounds very much to me like 2nd degree murder.

Who locked the bathroom door, and why? The prosecutor will say she ran in there and locked it to escape him after he assaulted her with the bat.

[Frau Unsichtbar]

My high school girlfriend was the daughter of two, down for the struggle, true reds. The family moved to Berkeley and joined the UU church. I was told "you don't have to believe in God." Sounded screwy to me even as a yute.

[Chubby]

I wonder if Candy Crawley and Monica Crawley are related.

[Frau Unsichtbar]

We are waiting for Alaskan Summer which is the closest we've found to Kölsch which is NOT a summertime only beer. Just ask daddy!

[Jack is Back]

Chubby,

Isn't Candy spelled CrOwley?

[Chubby]

((Who locked the bathroom door, and why? ))

indeed, considering their intimate relationship, locking the bathroom door does seem like an odd thing for her to do

[Danube of Thought iPad]

"Reports last week suggested that [a rugby player's] 'close relationship' with the model, with whom he shared an agent and a brand ambassador role, might have been a cause of tension between the couple.

"Neighbours are said to have complained to security guards two hours before shots were heard at the athlete's home east of Pretoria about a noise disturbance - potentially a row, detectives believe. Miss Steenkamp was shot four times and her skull was reportedly fractured."

[Chubby]

((Isn't Candy spelled CrOwley?))

Yes, I just looked it up, indeed it is. And Monica is spelled Crowley as well. And they are apparently not related.

[rse]

frau-I suspect it was just an unquestionable place to interact once a week with people you once went to summer camp with or your kids will.

I find that the most interesting aspect of Ron Radosh and Horowitz's childhood stories. And an educator now trainer I looked into wanted people to know she was a Red Diaper baby with all the subsequent badges without quite saying it that graphically. They were funny euphemisms that conveyed that point though.

[MarkO]

As I said the other day, Inspector Clouseau solved the case by declaring, "He killed her in a rit of fellous jage."

[Manuel Transmission]

gmax, we've had AA up here in the Great NW for about 15 years. I don't think it made it much further south in those days. It was an early microbrew from Juneau as I recall. Truly a mom and pop startup.

[Extraneus]

Media Wasn't In Tank For Obama

He's a strategist all right.

[MarkO]

"Media Wasn't In Tank For Obama"

Can anyone be this stupid?

[Janet]

I believe Obama's grandparents & his mom went to a Unitarian "church" in Washington. No guilt for posing nude comes in handy later in life....

[Janet]

Can anyone be this stupid?

Hey, MarkO..."What difference, at this point, does it make?"

[centralcal]

Can anyone be this stupid?

Apparently, it is a prerequisite for being a "Top Man" (Fnork) advising Republican Presidential candidates. The stupider, the better, it would seem.

Maybe, we should be cleaning house in the Top Men Hotel, while kidnapping and mind altering the Big $$$$ Donors who seem to hang on their every [losing] theory of campaigning.

[Thomas Collins]

I doubt anyone can be that dense. Perhaps the Mittster is planning a return to public life in some capacity, and is trying to massage the media through Stu Stevens.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

"Media Wasn't In Tank For Obama"

My guess is he is looking for a job.

[narciso]

If we consider it's opposite day, it makes more sense;

http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2013/02/24/im-not-trying-to-take-your-guns-away/

[Dave (in MA)]

I found out recently some people in the UU church are atheists. It doesn't compute for me.

I certainly can't criticize anybody on that front, but I found the opening essay in this newsletter from a local church unintentionally amusing.

[Dave (in MA)]

But not as amusing as my inability to paste a link successfully.

[Janet]

narcissistic politics?...we're drowning in narcissistic politics.

[Jane on Ipad]

I don't think it's a good thing to criticize other people's churches. Of course if they publish political essays I reserve the right to change my mind.

[narciso]

They make a point of criticizing Catholics with
the showing of Constantine's Sword, but why do I think they would see nothing wrong in Hamas addressing the congregation?

[Janet]

So many churches aren't churches anymore. They have nothing to do with God or a relationship with God. They ARE political groups...or secular charity organizations (which is okay, but they aren't churches).

[Janet]

This is funny - The Guilty Dog