The New Nixon

When you are relying on Nixon-era deceptions to justify your drone program, folks may get balky:

Obama’s Nixonian Precedent

By MARY L. DUDZIAK

ON March 17, 1969, President Richard M. Nixon began a secret bombing campaign in Cambodia, sending B-52 bombers over the border from South Vietnam. This episode, largely buried in history, resurfaced recently in an unexpected place: the Obama administration’s “white paper” justifying targeted killings of Americans suspected of involvement in terrorism.

...

On Page 4 of the unclassified 16-page “white paper,” Justice Department lawyers tried to refute the argument that international law does not support extending armed conflict outside a battlefield. They cited as historical authority a speech given May 28, 1970, by John R. Stevenson, then the top lawyer for the State Department, following the United States’ invasion of Cambodia.

Since 1965, “the territory of Cambodia has been used by North Vietnam as a base of military operations,” he told the New York City Bar Association. “It long ago reached a level that would have justified us in taking appropriate measures of self-defense on the territory of Cambodia. However, except for scattered instances of returning fire across the border, we refrained until April from taking such action in Cambodia.”

In fact, Nixon had begun his secret bombing of Cambodia more than a year earlier. (It is not clear whether Mr. Stevenson knew this.) So the Obama administration’s lawyers have cited a statement that was patently false.

Citing false statements to justify a secret program is not really convincing. Sort of a castles, sand problem.

Comments

[MarkO]

Nixon's the one.

[Danube of Thought]

tried to refute the argument that international law does not support extending armed conflict outside a battlefield

It supports it in certain circumstances, as exemplified by the doctrine of anticipatory self-defense (which may have been applicable in the case of Cambodia,but probably is not in this case). See, e.g., the Caroline
affair.

But in any case: the Allies extended a conflict outside a battlefield when they invaded Normandy. Guadalcanal was not a battlefield until the U.S. Marines went ashore. And etc.

[NK]

TomM-- with all due respect--YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT. This is the Alinsky POTUS-- the Leftwing exemplar. There is no objective truth, there is no objective History, there is only what Dear Leader says... TODAY. These antiquated notions of objective truth, recorded history, rule of law are artifacts of your White Man's Western canon, which no longer exists in the age of JEF. There is only JEF...."WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH" and "OCEANA HAS ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH EURASIA." Get with the program TomM-- remember-- thought crime is death.

[NK]

DoT-- in truth, the 9/14/01 'Authorization of Use of Force' Resolution has been used for GWOT operation anywhere-- and rightfully so.

[narciso]

Well it is a little amusing, that arguments not strong enough to hold detainees, by these same learned barristers, allows those same folks to be targeted indiscriminately, ZD 30 does touch upon this, as the CIA station chief who was burned by the ISI, due to the lawsuit on the drone strikes.

[Captain Hate]

Please keep him ignorant of wage and price controls.

[narciso]

Now, this is not necessarily a new angle;

http://saltspringnews.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=23147

the question arises, however, was Stevenson aware of the policy, at the time;

[Threadkiller]

More nutters join the fringe.

http://www.wegiveinfo.com/2013/03/president-obama-birth-certificate.html

[Danube of Thought]

NK, that's a U.S. congressional authorization. The issue is whether it's consistent with international law. Personally, I don't much care; much of that law is unworkable in the era of transnational terrorism.

[AliceH]

And here again, bless you, the arguments are all about the substance. This is why we lose.

A democrat would read that and it would be All Nixon All The Time.

[AliceH]

I'm not, I hasten to add, advocating dropping substance for soundbites. Just making the observation.

[NK]

International Law? call a cop?... in all seriousness for a moment, the right to self-defense in our treaty obligations well-covered the 9/14 Authorization for borderles attacks on AQ.

[Jack is Back]

OT (in a way): Every Drone King must have his Queen. So, to publicize their Sunday Times magazine list of the best dressed women, they crowned Michelle in their ad.

Murdoch must be feeling the DoJ heat here to sacrifice any legitimacy the Times has had in the UK.

[James D.]

Alce, I'll addvocate dropping substance for soundbites. If the muddle/LIVs are more than 50% of the electorate,, and if that's all they can/will respond to, what choice do we have?

[narciso]

Sort of related, this is a classically Chicago move;

http://freebeacon.com/a-failed-reformation/

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--But in any case: the Allies extended a conflict outside a battlefield when they invaded Normandy.--

I would think a better example from that war would be the wholesale bombing of cities, especially the night bombings by the Brits which didn't even have the pretense of strategic targets, other than the cities themselves.

[NK]

RAF Bomber Command's Night Raids = self-defense.
Once again, call a cop under international law.

[narciso]

It is curious, that he was a distributor of Awlaki's historical works;

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22839606/tom-clements-update-homicide-investigators-pore-over-tips?source=pkg

[Porchlight]

Citing false statements to justify a secret program is not really convincing. Sort of a castles, sand problem.

Even castles made of sand
Fall into the sea
Eventually

[Porchlight]

Please keep him ignorant of wage and price controls.

Too late! He teethed on that stuff.

[NK]

Obamacare, of course, is a step towards single payer medical care price control-- and the resulting rationing, mais bien sur.

[AliceH]

--...what choice do we have? --
Posted by: James D. | March 22, 2013 at 12:23 PM

That's where I'm at, also. I pull back from actually advocating the approach because my self-assessment of my political skills hovers around 0.

[Jim Rhoads f/k/a vnjagvet]

...especially the night bombings by the Brits which didn't even have the pretense of strategic targets, other than the cities themselves.

Hannibal, later Napoleon and later yet, Sherman "the cities themselves", and their inhabitants became strategic targets.

[Jim Rhoads f/k/a vnjagvet]

To Hannibal, etc.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--Hannibal, later Napoleon and later yet, Sherman "the cities themselves", and their inhabitants became strategic targets.--

Yet I'm told history is a story of progress and we're steadily becoming more civilized.
More correctly, human nature is immutable and each new generation preens over the last barbaric one while pretending their new holocaust doesn't exist or is for the good of the people while tut tutting the savages who perpetrated the last one.

[AliceH]

--each new generation preens over the last barbaric one while pretending their new holocaust doesn't exist or is for the good of the people while tut tutting the savages who perpetrated the last one.--

That used to be true, but now we have Obama which means shut up.

[narciso]

Meanwhile, Priebus is still pelting dead horses.
because that's the pressing priority,

[Danube of Thought on iPad]

"I would think a better example from that war would be the wholesale bombing of cities"

Certainly that is an example, as is Sherman, of total war being carried to the enemy's civilian population. But for purposes of the present discussion, I don't think that any cobatant nation can claim not to be a battlefield, so carrying the war to the enemy's homeland would not be extending a war beyond the battlefield.

But the whole thing is silly, and it's a mistake to get bogged down in all this lawfare shit. The practice has been carried on since antiquity:: you take the war to the enemy, wherever he is found, and you smite him hip and thigh. Who the hell is going to say otherwise?

[NK]

DoT@1:21-- the Royal Navy 1600-1945 would agree with that assessment.

[Melinda Romanoff]

McRino encourages Moar taxes for all. Refuses to cut check as token first gesture.

[bgates]

Since 1965, “the territory of Cambodia has been used by North Vietnam as a base of military operations,” he told the New York City Bar Association....In fact, Nixon had begun his secret bombing of Cambodia more than a year earlier.

Talk about burying the lede!

Really though, a Nixon admin official said the bombing campaign didn't start until 1970 but had been justified since 1965. That the bombing in fact started in 1969 hardly affects the justification, which is what the Obama white paper discusses.

[Cecil Turner (on mini-pad)]

Well it is a little amusing, that arguments not strong enough to hold detainees, by these same learned barristers . . .

That's exactly the rub: their inconsistent application of international law is incoherent. (And I'd submit it's the detainee question where they're on the wrong side of history.)

Marco Rubio was particularly good on it at CPAC (best bit):

We will capture them, we will get useful information from them and then we will bring them to justice, in front of a military tribunal in Guantanamo -- as I said, in front of a military tribunal in Guantanamo, not a civilian courtroom in Manhattan.

[narciso]

Which is why that Ware piece I linked last night about how the Iraqi insurgents couldn't win on the battlefield but through the media, was disingenous as Ware was practically the insurgent's press agent, also Carol Rosenberg, Jane Mayer, Scott Shane re Gitmo.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--But the whole thing is silly, and it's a mistake to get bogged down in all this lawfare shit. The practice has been carried on since antiquity:: you take the war to the enemy, wherever he is found, and you smite him hip and thigh. Who the hell is going to say otherwise?--

I suppose, but at least the Mongols had the decency to smile as they razed a city and slaughtered the women and children instead of virtuously waving the Geneva Conventions around and cursing the little yellow bellies for Bataan while fire bombing Tokyo or repatriating hundreds of thousands of Russians to certain death under Stalin after the war.

[narciso]

Of course, they have interpreted the military tribunals in such a way, where they are almost more useless than the civilian courts,

[Jack is Back]

Duke up 14 on Albany 13:34 to go in 2nd half.

Wisc. up 3 on Old Miss with 13 to go in 2nd half.

[Appalled]

A special moment of history preserved, from the side of Tom's blog....:

Currently on Memeorandum

Ezra Klein / Wonkblog:
Good news for people who like bad news about inequality

Jeryl Bier / Weekly Standard:
Biden's One-Night Paris Hotel Tab: $585,000.50

[Jack is Back]

I feel better already.

New slogan for Obamacare from guy who will run the program:

Let's Make Sure its Not a 3rd World Experience

I'd settle for it to not be a 1st world experience like in the UK.

[Jack is Back]

Appalled,

But he saved 10% when he went to London. That one night stand was only $475K.

That will be the MSM lede: Obama Administration cuts spending by 10%.

[Cecil Turner (on mini-pad)]

Of course, they have interpreted the military tribunals in such a way, where they are almost more useless than the civilian courts,

Aided and abetted by the likes of McCain and Graham. But those interpretations are relatively easily fixable (on the off chance the electorate finally stops persisting in folly).

. . . while fire bombing Tokyo or repatriating hundreds of thousands of Russians to certain death under Stalin after the war.

Justified at the time by arguments of dispersed industry. For example, from LeMay:

. It was their system of dispersal of industry.... I'll never forget Yokohama. That was what impressed me: drill presses. There they were, like a forest of scorched trees and stumps, growing up throughout the residential area. Flimsy construction all gone ... everything burned down, or up, and drill presses standing like skeletons.

I think one could make arguments that the need to prove the most expensive weapons system of the war (the B-29), or US frustration with the Japanese failure to surrender were more imperative drivers, but in any event there's no comparison with the slaughter of helpless prisoners.

[narciso]

That would be 643K for the non discount rate, or something of that nature.

[Jack is Back]

narciso,

According to the fine print he should have stayed for free in Paris:

"the Hotel Intercontinental has a special offer, "Find a lower price elsewhere and your first night is free." The Vice President stayed in Paris for one night."

[Jack is Back]

With 3:20 to go Duke has only a 12 point lead - Albany just shot the dreaded neck ball. Just hit a 3 and its 9pt. lead with 2:30 to go. Ole Miss has come alive in their game against the Badgers. But it does look like Duke is going to win but should never have let Albany back in the game.

[NK]

The $1M SloJoe blew on hotels is peanutz to the $196M that he blew on Fisker Motors for Newark Del-- that loan was defaulted last week.

[NK]

CecilT-- LeMay was a realist-- I've read accounts that he told subordinates on many occasions that if the US lost the war, they'd all hang as war criminals for their area bombing of Japanese cities.

[AliceH]

Do you guys really not find it significant that it's the OBAMA administration citing the NIXON administration as their justification for anything? That it is not even close to being of greatest importance whether they are right or wrong here - but that they sold themselves as being more enlightened and above all that? The legal underpinnings matter just as much now as they did before and are not the issue. Their claim to owning the moral high ground has crumbled and you are giving them a pass.

[Frau Gedanken sind nicht frei]

Attention commenters: This blog entry has been reported to the Thought Police.

[NK]

And in JEF-World Thought Crimes equal death.

[Janet]

Notify flag@whitehouse.gov if you see anything fishy.

[Cecil Turner (on mini-pad)]

I've read accounts that he told subordinates on many occasions that if the US lost the war, they'd all hang as war criminals for their area bombing of Japanese cities.

Well, by the time they got around to the big firebombing raids, the submarine campaign had already strangled Japanese industry (and to a lesser degree the civilian population) to the point there was exactly zero chance of losing the war.

I'd also point out the firebombing concept was proven in Europe, by "Bomber" Harris, who made no bones about the goal of dehousing, with no pretense of military targeting. The Japanese campaign by comparison, though far bloodier, is relatively easily defensible.

[Neo]

Among the basic questions that [Rand] Paul asks of [John] Kerry:
If the U.S. was wrong to bomb Cambodia without congressional authorization (and it was), then why was it A-OK for Obama to join in bombing runs over Libya?

[Captain Hate]

Wisconsin is the first turd in my bracket punchbowl.

[Jack is Back]

Well, Marshall Henderson has started his schtick with only 40 seconds left. Sort of like the SEC version of Red's cigar. Ole Miss up 10 on the Badgers. Miami up big on Pacific 21-7. And the Temple Owls up 16 on NC State.

[NK]

Sorry to see the Badgers go down.

The A-10's last hurrah is magnificent-- could they get 4 teams to the Sweet 16?

[Thomas Collins]

Enemies List-Check

Use of Governmental Agencies to Harass Private Persons-Check

Unabated Paranoia-Check

Sufficiently Aggressive Language to Indicate Insecurity-Check

Genuinely Smart Man-No check. Nixon was smart, Obama is part of the credentialled moronocracy.

Acting in Good Faith to Promote American Interests-No check. Whatever one thought of Nixon's policies, I don't think one could question the assertion that he acted in what he thought was America's best interests. Obama is proud of acting as a citizen of the world (although the world as a whole is worse off with Obama as US POTUS).

Big Government Guy. Half check. Yes, Nixon did a lot of Big Guv things, but I don't think he would have had the alternative energy fetish that Obama has and is using Big Guv to promote. Plus, I believe Nixon supported the capitalist system as the best system to protect human rights and promote human flourishing. To the extent Obama supports capitalism, it is to milk the cow of the private sector for his cronies.

[Captain Hate]

Henderson has some serious mental issues. iNCeST is embarrassing the Bojangles conference on national television; well done Chairman Yow.

[MarkO]

Duke smote Albany but hardly hip and thigh. Maybe they're just loosening up.

[Frau Gedanken sind nicht frei]

Thanks, Janet; I used your link to denounce this -

[Jack is Back]

When I was a young kid Tom Gola was my basket ball hero. That was 1955 and LaSalle won their only national championship.

Play like its 1955, Explorers!

[Dave (in MA)]

Please keep him ignorant of wage and price controls.

The guy probably had Cialis-level wood when he heard about Cyprus grabbing bank accounts.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--but in any event there's no comparison with the slaughter of helpless prisoners--

Bataan was a great evil, but there's no comparison to 100,000 burned to death?
The Japanese women and children who, after all, were civilians not even combatants like those murdered in the death march, weren't equally or even more helpless?

[Jack is Back]

Oh,oh. Cashmere Wright starts with 2 3's and Creighton still hasn't shot the ball.

[Melinda Romanoff]

As opposed to the casualties from invading the homeland?

That's what the math was about.

[narciso]

Yes, it's as flat as one expected;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2013/03/21/admisson-review-fey-rudd-comedy

[narciso]

If 'Olympus has Fallen' were successful as the eternal crosspromotions on ESPN would suggest,
then Vince Flynn would have a case for plagiarism.

[NK]

In the context of WWII total war, the area fire bombings of Japanese cities, and then the 2 nukes were all too predictable. All predictable, and all justifed to avoid far more death from an invasion of the Home Islands to remove the Tojo War Council. but don't let those justifications ever make us lose sight of the hundreds of thousands of civilan deaths from those bombings. Hundreds of thousands, more than total US Combat deaths during the whole war. Stalin was right, we all tend to think of a 1M deaths as a souless statistic, not the destruction of individual human lives.

[Captain Hate]

I never know what to think of Cincy; it might take them an entire generation to recover from Huggy.

[bgates]

Their claim to owning the moral high ground has crumbled and you are giving them a pass.

They had the moral courage to dismiss Bush admin arguments about the complexity of war against a 21st century non-state organization and demand America find a better way. Now they have the courage to make the tough decisions that keep America safe. Should anything go wrong, they'll have the courage to fix the blame where it belongs: on their opponents who prevented them from pursuing whichever course they were not following at that moment.

At no point in that process will any of the suckers who believed these cynical idiots look on Obama as anything other than the incarnation of Christ on earth.

[Jack is Back]

CH,

Cronin doing the best he can and has improved his recruiting every year. Need more offense.

For any pilots out there especially of small aircraft, the FAA has issued their Contract Tower Closures, 149 in all. From my cursory review, Red States hit hardest. Funny, the St. Augustine NE Regional is on the list and Lockheed-Martin makes the EC2's there. Wonder if the Navy was consulted.

The List if Interested

[AliceH]

bgates: Anyone can win if the opponents concede the argument.

[Jack is Back]

Lockheed Martin should be Northrup Grumman. Have no idea - must be a brain fart. Grrrrr.

[NK]

JiB-- last aircraft ever assembled on Long Island was an E- 2C Hawkeye; flew out of Calverton about 15 years ago.

[jimmyk]

At no point in that process will any of the suckers who believed these cynical idiots look on Obama as anything other than the incarnation of Christ on earth.

Wait, so the professor at Florida Atlantic was making an anti-Obama statement?

[Melinda Romanoff]

JiB-

One of those two released a ground breaking news item recently. Ive been doing the math ever since. Ground breaking.

[NK]

A-10 is 4 for 4 thus far, and Lasalle is up by 18 on K-State. Wow. Could it happen? 5 for 5 mid-majors from the A-10 through the 1st round?

[Cecil Turner (on mini-pad)]

The Japanese women and children who, after all, were civilians not even combatants like those murdered in the death march, weren't equally or even more helpless

Of course not. If nothing else, they could move. Or, more to the point, cease working in or near the armaments industry (that was in fact dispersed to make targeting more difficult) or agitate to force their own government to make peace. No such options were available to a POW, who was utterly dependent on his captors, or to the subject peoples of Axis occupations.

The agreement not to use incendiaries in populated areas was added to the conventions after the war. But even now, there is simply no equivalence, either legally or morally, between collateral damage (and yes, war industry is a legitimate military target) and murder of captives. And the fact that there may have been a few more of the former (in Japan, at least, though certainly not in Germany) does not make instances of the latter less egregious as war crimes.

[Danube of Thought on iPad]

"At no point in that process will any of the suckers who believed these cynical idiots look on Obama as anything other than the incarnation of Christ on earth."

Precisely the same thing can be said about the disaster that is--and will be--Obamacare. The yokels cannot be shaken from their faith.

[narciso]

Did they use that argument re Libya, who had been a rival even farther in the past, and at the time, was actually facilitating the implementation of the AUMF, an open secret that
Blumenthal was surprised by,

[richatuf]

Please keep him ignorant of wage and price controls.

damn it, obamacare...but others got to it first.

afternoon all.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--But even now, there is simply no equivalence, either legally or morally, between collateral damage (and yes, war industry is a legitimate military target)--

It wasn't collateral damage.
When high altitude HE bombing didn't wipe out enough of the Japanese cities particularly Tokyo they switched to low altitude incendiaries with the purpose of obliterating as much of the city, industrial and residential, as possible. The killing of civilians was planned and intended to sap German and Japanese morale.
One can plausibly argue it was necessary, but not that it was an accident.

--or agitate to force their own government to make peace. No such options were available to a POW--

I'd have to say agitating for Hitler or Tojo to surrender would have had (and did) very similar results to one of our POWs agitating for better treatment; a bullet in the head.

I have no idea how many thousands of tons of bombs my pop loaded on B 17s for the three and half years he was overseas but I note he and others similarly occupied seldom dismissed what those bombs did to civilians as easily as those who didn't load or drop them.

[NK]

I am getting old and sentimental-- because I'm with Ig on focusing on the human cost of winning the war over Tojo's war council. All of the 'just war' and statistical argments that convinced me 40 years ago that Truman, LeMay, MacArthur, Nimitz were justified in demanding complete surrender, and in the use of fire bombing and nuking the cities. But, justiifed does not mean it wasn't cruel and indiscriminate mass killing on an industrial scale. It's nothing for Americans to be be 'proud' or 'pleased' with, it just had to be done, and it was.

[Cecil Turner (on mini-pad)]

It wasn't collateral damage.
When high altitude HE bombing didn't wipe out enough of the Japanese cities particularly Tokyo they switched to low altitude incendiaries with the purpose of obliterating as much of the city, industrial and residential, as possible.

Illogical. The shift from high to low altitude was in fact to create more destruction. But that doesn't prove the target wasn't (as stated) the dispersed industry, nor that the noncombatants weren't collateral. You'd have a much better case with the dehousing raids (though even there, the stated target was houses, not people . . . one of those links above talks about the relative effectiveness of destroying houses as opposed to killing neighbors . . . though I'd dismiss much of that as rationalization).

I'd have to say agitating for Hitler or Tojo to surrender would have had (and did) very similar results to one of our POWs agitating for better treatment; a bullet in the head.

And yet, in the final analysis, that's exactly what happened (after a critical mass had been achieved). Which helps illustrate the point why a POW is never a legitimate target. And again, the point is targeting. One might kill an enemy civilian unconnected with the war effort by accident . . . a dead POW was almost always an intentional act.

[Danube of Thought on iPad]

Funny. After the A-bombs were dropped on Japan, Nimitz declared it "barbaric." Fleet Admiral Leahy said "I wasn't taught to fight that way." Even Halsey opposed it, but only because he thought it hadn't been necessary, and thus it was unwise to let the world know what we had. (All three--and King--believed that an invasion of Japan would not have been necessary.

My father--who had been at Midway, Guadalcanal, Pelelieu, Iwo Jima and Okinawa, and was preparing for the invasion and had no illusions about what it would cost--supported the decision. And he got home to us sooner, so we did too.

[narciso]

We have gone to the other extreme'

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/03/22/netanyahu-apologizes-to-erdogan-for-turkish-deaths-during-2010-raid-on-gaza-flotilla/

[narciso]

Leahy, didn't think the bomb would work in the first place as I recall,

[Cecil Turner (on mini-pad)]

But, justiifed does not mean it wasn't cruel and indiscriminate mass killing on an industrial scale.

I heartily concur. But it's important to recognize that failing to take the steps necessary to win (a la just war theory), or perhaps worse, just prolonging the conflict, increases human suffering. And I think that lesson has been lost on the current crop of our political class, to our detriment. (And while I doubt we can actually lose the current conflict, we can certainly string it out into an indiscriminate meatgrinder of both lives and civil society.)

[Cecil Turner (on mini-pad)]

Funny. After the A-bombs were dropped on Japan, Nimitz declared it "barbaric."

I could wish for a perfect understanding of the impact of interservice rivalry on some of these public statements (not that I think Nimitz saw it exclusively through that lens, but such things tend to color our opinions).

There's certainly room for men of conscience on both sides, and that has only been underscored as time passes (and technology progresses).

[matt]

The estimated casualties of an invasion of Japan were for 1,000,000+ Allied KIA with another 2-3 Million wounded, and for between 3 and 5,000,000 Japanese killed. Some of the estimates were for double the number of Japanese fatalities in the pattern of what happened on Okinawa.

This did not include the continued toll in China and elsewhere as the war ground down to assault after assault. For every month of continued war, there would have been close to 1,000,000 casualties or more.

Was the Bomb worth it? Every penny.

[Danube of Thought on iPad]

Not all of the Admirals' statements were public. Nimitz, who declined to write memoirs, was speaking to a confidant.

[NK]

I think Truman had conscience-- I think they all did. But tey all had a duty to the 100,000 American KIAs and 500,000 WIA that were projected in Operation Olympic -- the invasion of the Home Islands. They acted on their intellect and conscience-- and they came out for the mass bombings and the nukes. I think history has judged them fairly-- but that doesn't mean we can't recognize and appreciate the horror and mass killing of innocents that was needed to end that war.

[Cecil Turner (on mini-pad)]

Not all of the Admirals' statements were public. Nimitz, who declined to write memoirs, was speaking to a confidant.

I meant "publicly available." Again (or to clarify), I accept that reflects his honest opinion . . . I just wonder how much it was influenced by the fact that the balance of offensive power shifted so dramatically toward the Air Force (or Army Air Corps) with the advent of nuclear weapons (at least initially).

[NK]

A-10 does go 5 for 5 through to the second round-- Lasalle beats K-State.

[Jack is Back]

LaSalle wins. I was at the Parish Friday Fish Dinner and missed it. Cincy lost, darn it but Ole Miss prevailed. I am still alive in one of my brackets.

[NK]

The Brackets-- the success of the A-10 is intriguing. With the exception of Temple-- none of those 5 teams has top tier football. The New Big East with the 7 Basketball First Catholic school plus, Creighton (also won) Xavier, Dayton, SLU may wind up being quite the B-Ball conference.

[Jack is Back]

Halligan nomination for DC Circuit has been withdrawn. One less leftist to screw up the works.

Took 2 1/2 half years of just saying no to the JEF before he and his nominee would listen.

[Danube of Thought on iPad]

Leahy's expressed concern was for the distant future. He said he was sure the weapons would proliferate, and that our use of it would lower the moral bar for future use by others. I would guess that he could see far past the interim period when nuclear delivery by air power was thought to render all other forms of warfare obsolete. That notion got its first whiff of disfavor not far into the Korean War, was overtaken by the development of Polaris subs in the early 60's, and by the time of Khe Sanh it was heard from no more.

[MarkO]

"And he got home to us sooner"

Isn't that really always the point? The rest is just blather. The rarified notions of civilized warfare strike me as discussions of an oxymoron.

[matt]

In Japan, the entire nation was being mobilized for defense to the death. The culture was devoted to the Emperor and could not face the prospect of defeat.

Every island, every town would have had to have been conquered individually. The terrain is very also difficult. Olympic would have been a small down payment for a very long and costly campaign.

And the Allies were just about broke by then as well. Somehow, I had the picture of people with sharpened bamboo spears going up against some of the images from the worst days of Guadalcanal imprinted on my brain at a young age. A number of us might not be here if that campaign had moved forward.

[Porchlight]

I've no experience of my own to draw upon but I'm guessing those notions seem a lot less rarified when you're directly involved in the warfare.

It has always seemed to me that the notions of civilized warfare are an essential part of the bedrock of civilization, period, since war is more or less a constant. If it's all about just getting the boys home sooner there are lots of uncivilized ways to make that happen.

[iqvoice]

In any discussion about the bombing of "civilians" in Japan, one must remember that by that stage of the war we already knew several things about the Japs:

1) They fought to the death. Banzai charge after banzai charge. Rare was the nip that surrendered. In that context, an invasion of the homeland would have to assume that the civilians would also fight to the death, thus making them targets.

2) The Jap atrocities were already well known. We had already seen what they had done throughout Asia. There were perfectly sane people on our side who were calling for the total annihilation of Japan, whether they surrendered or not. Likewise with the Germans.