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July 26, 2013

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Threadkiller

Legal definitions don't always get in the way, but I don't want to turn this into birther thread.

txantimedia

I'm waiting for the video to confirm my suspicion that the interviewer put words in her mouth.

Threadkiller

Here is a bit of speculation on my part.

In Tracy Martin's phone call to police the next morning to report Trayvon as missing, he tells the dispatcher that he last saw his son between 8 and 8:30 the night before. His son had been dead for about an hour.

I think that after DeeDee could not reach Tray she left word with one or the other parent that Tray was involved in something. Tracy is using the timeframe set by DeeDee as a reference for last contact with Tray.

He probably didn't want to say, "is my son in jail? "

They did not expect him to be dead, but they were forewarned that he was in trouble.

http://m.globalgrind.com/news/trayvon-martin-father-tracy-911-call-report-missing-sanford-police-george-zimmerman-details

NK

NO... MORE....TRAYVON....PLEASE
That is all.

Threadkiller

Not even on a Trayvon thread?

bgates

I suppose it's only the legal definition of murder that stands between me and a murder conviction. If it meant "commenting on a blog in the middle of the day" then I'd be guilty, just as if it meant "killing in self defense" ol' G.Z. would be up the river.

peter

George Zimmerman has put on weight since this incident because he did not read either of Gary Taubes' excellent books. (do I know how to hijack a thread, or what.)

matt

beautiful, TM.

We live in a world of the truth and the left's narrative. "Phony scandals", a clown of a White House press secretary, and the Atlantic Wire, in particular are simply a claque for the Crooks running the country.

There is another scandal brewing, I think. There seems to be a vendetta against General Cartwright, the officer responsible for the Stuxnet program. It seems that he is a maverick and has made a lot of enemies in DC according to Foreign Policy magazine.What is weired is that he was Obama's favorite general, it seems.

In another scandal, Commandant of the Marine Corps Amos has relieved a 3 star who didn't give him the scalps he wanted when a couple of enlisted pissed on some Taliban corpses a while back.

The vendettas have been growing quickly with so many senior officers being relieved for loss of confidence, indiscretions, non-prosecutions of sexual assault cases, etc. It really has become Byzantine.

I am quite surprised no one has written on this yet.

NK

no more threads please

NK

BTW-- TomM's snark is --as usual-- exemplary. But do we really need anymore of B29, Trayvon and that fat ugly chick?

Eric in Boise

Who, pray tell, is this Zimmerman chap that people keep talking about? Would someone kindly fill me in on all the details?

(ducking and covering)

hit and run

B29 is mistaken.

The real reason the jury couldn't find Zimmerman guilty of murder is the consent decree.

narciso

Vox populi, reminds of Network, and Howard Beale, and his penalty for poor ratings and telling the truth, but mostly telling the truth.

narciso

So Christie waving the bloody shirt, while picking a Hamas lawyer to the Supreme Ct, and hanging with Imam Rauf, do I need to say the appropriate phrase/

TexasIsHeaven

So now - our "glorious community organizer and leader" tells us how "Uncle Ho" was greatly inspired by Thomas Jefferson and our Constitution according to a letter written by Ho.

Isn't that a wonderful history lesson?

What a shame Lyndon Johnson wasn't aware of Ho's feelings and admiration for our founding fathers and ideals. Think of all the unpleasantness that could have been avoided between us and North Vietnam.

And as an aside note to that pretensious ass Eric Holder --

Don't Mess With Texas

Holder is always writing checks with his alligator mouth that he can't cash with his little canary ass....

bgates

Who, pray tell, is this Zimmerman chap

Well, do you remember Bill Richardson? He was the first Hispanic to run for President, as the Washington Post, USA Today, the NYT, and CBS reminded us just a few years after Time named him one of the 25 most influential Hispanics in America. In case that hasn't jogged your memory, here's a picture of the guy:

Well, George Zimmerman is nothing like that. He's just some cracka-ass honkey.

See?

Theo

I have been more of a lurker here than a poster of late, but I want to say that I think that the Zimmerman commentary here has been excellent and I hope that it continues as long as the controversy does.

On the other hand, the birther stuff is just flat out stupid on so many levels that it repels thought and I urge those who want to carry on about it to go elsewhere.

First of all, the "natural born citizen" clause of the constitution was a mistake in the first place and is an anachronism now. The Founders should have trusted the people to make wise choices for President rather than limit future generations in some largely arbitrary way. And I do mean "future generations" since under the Constitution then living non natural born citizens -- Hamilton and Gallatin among them -- were eligible to be President.

Indeed, recall that under the original constitutional scheme the people did not pick the President anyway. The Electoral College did. Today we think of the Electoral College as just adding up the votes from the state elections, but to the Founders the Electoral College was like the Cardinals picking the Pope. A bunch of wise people who got together just for the sublime purpose of picking an Executive shielded from outside influence. It never worked like that of course. Giving some guidance to the College might have had some sense but limiting the people themselves did not.

Beyond that, the overwhelming evidence is that Obama was born in Hawaii.

And so what if he was not? It does nothing to his qualifications for office. He was (unfortunately) freely elected by the people. To delegitimatize him on the slenderest of meaningless technicalities is extremely anti democratic (with a small "d.")

One cannot help but agree with those who suggest that birtherism is largely the hobby horse of those who simply cannot abide the fact that Barack Obama was elected president. Of course, almost no one in this country has agreed with the outcome of every presidential election in their lifetime -- there are probably not too many people who voted for both Bush and Obama. So we all have to live with the fact that the public has chosen someone else. But the birther types seem to be more than sore losers and it is not difficult to come up with plausible if ugly suggestions why this is so.

So keep the Zimmerman commentary going gang and please drop the birther nonsense.

pagar

Plus spend a million dollars to protect mosque while spending nothing to protect Christian places of worship. Meanwhile we're told that all the spying on Americans must exclude mosques. Something is wrong with that deal.


"“We, as Americans, have to put limits and borders [on] freedom of speech,” he told The Blaze. “He explained that while Americans may ‘have the freedom’ to speak their mind, ultimately, they ‘have no right to [talk about Muslim] holy issues’ as it will incite ‘hatred or war among people.’”
Qatanani was “nearly deported in 2008 for failing to disclose his former ties to the terrorist organization Hamas on a 1996 Green Card application.” (Christie vouched for him and he was allowed to stay)

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2012/10/05/nj-gov-chris-dhimmi-christie-makes-taxpayers-shell-out-over-1-million-for-extra-security-just-for-mosques/

James D.

I was just out at the store and saw the cover of this week's Time Magazine. It's about Egypt, and it reads "World's Best Protestors/World's Worst Democrats".

The question is: do the idiots who run the magazine honestly not understand that, while elections are a necessary component of a functioning democracy; holding elections does not in any way MAKE a country a democracy?

Or that there are many necessary preconditions to the establishment of a functioning democracy, none of which are present in Egypt?

2_cathy_f_typepad_sucks_666

TK, given that your handle contains the word "killer" right in it, maybe you should lay low!

Extraneus

it is not difficult to come up with plausible if ugly suggestions why this is so

Was that necessary?

I'm not interested in the birther stuff myself, and I agree with the rest of your comment, but I think the most plausible reason why some are interested is that Obama wasn't forthcoming about the birth certificate issue - having his people conflate "certification" with "certificate" and ridicule those who knew there was a difference, as he did himself - not to mention the book biographical notes saying he was born in Kenya, as if he hadn't seen and approved that. Nobody knows the brilliant man's SAT or LSAT scores, nor has anyone seen his transcripts or have any idea whether he applied for financial aid as a foreign student. IOW, much of Obama's background is shrouded in mystery, apparently by design, so it's only natural to wonder about the truth.

Extraneus

Turkish officials clear bird of spying for Israel

ISTANBUL (AP) -- A bird of prey found in a Turkish village has been cleared of local suspicion it was aiding Israeli spies.

The private Dogan news agency reported Friday that villagers in a rural town in central Turkey found the kestrel this week and delivered it to local authorities after discovering a leg band marked "24311 Tel Avivunia Israel." Such bands are often used to track bird migrations.

matt

The Turkish secret police beat the hell out of the bird to extract a confession, but it didn't work.

NK

Birtherism is moronic IMO b/c it helps Obama-- massively. Obama was born in Hawaii. We know who his mother was.. his biological father? Not so much. There is MUCH about Obama that has been hidden away by the Left-- did he apply to Occidental as a foreign student?, did he take foreign student scholarships?, how did he get into Columbia College-- or was it some lesser part of the University? what classes did he ever go to at Columbia? what were his grades? who were his patrons to get into and at HLS? when did Ayers effective adopt him? All of these connections will prove my opinion that he is a Hardcore Leftwinger bent on destroying American economic liberty and traditions. That's why his allies help him keep these secrets from LiVs. So Obama gets away with mocking birtherism, because it deserves to be mocked. And he uses that to help coverup his real secrets and hideous agenda. Birtherism is moronic b/c it helps Obama.

pagar

Ms Geller lists the results we seen.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/07/obama-at-white-house-ramadan-meal-muslim-americans-and-their-good-works-have-helped-to-build-our-nation-and-weve-seen-the.html

It looked like for a while that she was going to run out of space on the internet to list them all. Good works for who???????????????

Eric in Boise

O/T, but my trusty anagram generator informs me that "Carlos Danger" anagrams to "Roger Scandal", "Coarser Gland", and my favorite, "Cradles Organ".

Also see the new New Yorker cover, which should obviously be titled "King Dong".

anonamom

Ex, I completely agree--the birther stuff is of any interest to most as just but one part of the lying liar's lies.

Theo--it's easy to skip it, and I sometimes do, but I have such admiration for TK's tenacity and DoT's endless ability to refute that I often find myself not just reading their exchange, but smiling while doing so.

But, based on "something ugly"? Like racism?
Really, other than it fitting the story the MSM has told, what makes you think that??

Ignatz

--A bird of prey found in a Turkish village has been cleared of local suspicion it was aiding Israeli spies.--

Another hawk-nosed jew.

Theo

Extra --

The fact that we do not know his LSAT score is a completely different issue. The voters KNEW that they did not know his LSAT score (or his college grades) and took that account in making their choice.

You raise the suggestion that maybe he has tried to have it both ways in his life. Maybe he applied for financial assistance on the grounds that he was not only African American but a true African, born on that continent. Maybe he tried to have his book seem more exotic by making the same claim.

But again, so what? The voters knew of these possibilities and did not care (or did not know and did not care). It has nothing to do with his qualification to be president. If he was born in the US and at one time told someone he was born in Africa, it would not change his qualification under the natural born citizen clause.

My larger point was that it is a silly thing to focus on regardless of the truth of the matter. Your point is that it is legitimate to peer into the background of someone who seeks or holds high office. Of course you are right about that. There is every reason to raise issues about his college grades, his relationship to Bill Ayers and all of that.

However, where he was actually born is at best on the fringe of that. His relationship with Ayers might actually matter. The circumstances of his birth really do not. He had no control over those circumstances and they do not reflect on his character in any way. He was surely born of a woman who was an American citizen and the hypertechnical arguments about how the incident of where he took his first breath are not really meaningful.

You suggest that it was not "necessary" to suggest that "plausible but ugly" suggestions of why some people are so fixated on the birther question. I disagree. While I cannot look into the souls or minds of those who seem obsessed by this topic, there is no question that those who accuse them of simply being unable to accept him as President for reasons that are indeed ugly have a "plausible" basis for that charge. It may not be true, but it resonates with more sober minded people and leads to an ostracism of those who carry on so. I do not think that those with principled objections to the policies of this President want to be lumped in with those who appear -- rightly or wrongly -- to be motivated by considerations that most people want nothing to do with.

hit and run

matt:
The Turkish secret police beat the hell out of the bird to extract a confession, but it didn't work.

They couldn't get the bird to sing.

Jane

Ya know none of the scandals are going anywhere as long as Holder is the AG. He has and will refuse to prosecute all of them.

We need to impeach him. And we need to make it clear that every one will be prosecuted either now or when he's gone - including him if he doesn't do his job.

Theo

NK --

I totally agree. Birther arguments are a distraction away from learning the truth about Obama, not a part of that project.

Anonamom --

See my reply to Extraneous. I think that the charge of racism is "plausible." This birther thing is a liability in the attempt to help define Obama to the public. My point was that even if there were solid grounds to believe that he was not born in the US (and there are not), this is the wrong issue to carry on about.

jimmyk

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but Obama had another faceplant today:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/26/uh-ho-obama-says-vietnamese-dictator-inspired-by-founding-fathers/#ixzz2aAtLksEP

Smartest President evah!

Eric in Boise

I saw that, Jimmyk. Every morning I wake up thinking that there isn't anything Obama can do that will surprise me, and every day I'm surprised by just how much I'm surprised. Bleh.

NK

Ramadan BS, Ho as Thomas Jefferson-- is there any doubt this guy is a Third World America hater? and that he lies about his worldview everyday to moronic --but patriotic-- liberals. Jeez.

Extraneus

My larger point was that it is a silly thing to focus on regardless of the truth of the matter.

I do agree with that and with your other points as well, but wouldn't it be great to uncover the evidence that it's all a lie? This is what I think the birthers are lusting after.

Personally, if I could have one thing, it would be the LSAT score. I'd bet money that he made it into HLS with a below 20th percentile score.

Danube of Thought

having his people conflate "certification" with "certificate"

They first presented the certification because if a person born in Hawaii writes the state for his birth certificate, the certification is what he receives.

Danube of Thought

I'd like to see his HLS transcripts.

boris

I don't care where Obumbler was born and it's freaking obvious Odumbo is a toxic destroyer that nothing can stop. Okay.

But complaining that it's those "birthers" who are "helping" the destroyer destroy our country is ... well ... FUBAR.

Ya right. If the anti-birthers were doing something ... anything ... to stop what's happening they wouldn't look like morons blaming the wrong people.

Sure seems to me bither-bashers also didn't think much of Sarah or the Tea Party.

NK

But Palin and the Tea Party (to my knowledge)are not birthers...

boris

Your sequitur appears to be non.

2_cathy_f_typepad_sucks_666

The whole "Ho was a homeboy of the Founding Founders" bit just proves that the man is incompetent at being a freaking politician! I mean how hard is it to come up with some thoroughly bland formula -- because of the history of the American-Vietnamese relationship, there are many Americans with a great appreciation of Vietnamese culture and we are looking forward to a brighter future -- and everyone understands that this is so much nothing and moves on...

Ignatz

Perhaps its odd dominance of so many threads here has led to a distorted view because I suspect the whole birther phenomenon has had pretty close to zero impact enabling Barry to do anything he's done.

Can anyone seriously imagine Barrycare not passing or F&F, Benghazi, the IRS or his reelection not occurring if only those damn birthers could be squelched?

Now it holds pretty close to zero interest for me personally but contending it has enabled Barry in any measurable way seems about as big a red herring as birtherism itself.

Danube on iPad

I'll say no more.

Captain Hate

Ya know none of the scandals are going anywhere as long as Holder is the AG. He has and will refuse to prosecute all of them.

We need to impeach him. And we need to make it clear that every one will be prosecuted either now or when he's gone - including him if he doesn't do his job.

Too bad we don't have a real opposition party to do this.

Cecil Turner

B29, although appearing pretty dim, has effectively shielded herself from the low-information retaliation-minded bigots riled up by the race hustlers. If "stupid is as stupid does," this . . . isn't.

In fact, it's borderline brilliant.

NK

It's manifestly clear that The Legacy Media has had an easier time burying the Benghazi and IRS scandals because LiV believe all Obummer scandals are as idiotic as Birtherism. When the real scandals hit, Birthirism was used effectively not exclusively, but effectively-- by the Legacy Media to avoid having to report. Would LiVs not have pushed for reporting if Birtherism never happened? we'll never know.

Theo

Extra --

Just curious about why you think that his LSAT score would be meaningful. (I mean, as a data point I would like to know it too, but would not assign a lot to it.)

The LSAT may give some information about an ability to logically process legal type issues but it is not any kind of a test on which to determine someone's ability to be a good president, which regards a lot of different skills. Let me put it this way, without sounding too imnodest. I got an excellent score on the LSAT and no one, not even people who agree with me on every policy issue there is, would want me to be President, including me. There are just a whole lot of necessary skills for that job that the LSAT does not measure.

As a standin for a general IQ test I suppose it might be nice to have his score, but those tests are not nearly as useful as the prolonged exposure that we have had for years with the guy. He is in fact a reasonably intelligent individual and his failings as president are not due to some lack of what Charles Murray would call "g" or cognitive ability.

Or is your point that his LSAT would establish that he got into Harvard Law due to affirmative action? This is very likely to be the case, but so what? The proponents of affirmative action argue that (a) the LSAT is not all that useful or predictive anyway and (b) for the good of society there are other bases to select entirely qualified applicants even if they are not the MOST qualified applicants available.

Anyway, just curious on what it would mean if we had the LSAT score.

daddy

Knock Knock.

Who's there?

Birther.

Birther Who?

Knock Knock.

Who's there?

Birther.

Birther Who?

Knock Knock.

Who's there?

Orange.

Orange Who?

Orange-cha' glad I didn't say Birther again?

narciso

Trig Denialists, getting publishing deals from Random House, get attention from stock huckster Henry Blodgett, and other vermins.

matt

To tie the whole thing up into a nice neat package, I want to see Trayvon Martin's birth certificate.

hO hO hO cHI mINH! sTUDENT OF gEORGE wASHINGTIN!!!

somehow, it just doesn't work.....on any level...

With his Jackalope speechifying about no scandals and unicorn farts for the middle class and Uncle Ho, he is solidifying his future reputation as the most idiotic president in our history.

peter

Listen, Theo, we believe in freedom of posting here, and if we have someone who wants to post birther posts, deal with it.

Frau Fragezeichen

NK - you forgot to add the question about what kind of passport and with which name did Obama travel to Pok-ee-stan when travel for Americans was restricted/limited.

Threadkiller

What happened to this thread?

NK

It was killed...

Theo

Listen, Peter, I was not interfering with anyone's freedom of posting. I was exercising mine. Deal with it.

Janet

I would like Obama to be asked about the things in Extraneus's 2:08 post.
A reporter asking President Obama about the Kenyan biographical note.
Did Michelle go to Bali with him when he wrote Dreams...some articles say yes, some say no (all pro-Obama sources)? How did they afford that when they were suppose to be poor?

Play his Selma speech in front of him & then ask him if he knows his father wasn't brought over by JFK....or if he knows the Selma marches were in 1965 & he was born in 1961? Ask him directly.

His whole life narrative is made up...& the MFM don't ask him any pointed questions.
He is a liar...& the MFM have such a crush on him that they let him lie & then make fun of the people asking questions.
I get sick of it. Why do we have to guess anyway?...What's the use of the MFM if they are just stenographers & advocates for a liar?

Carol Herman

Outdoing Peirs Morgan and her interview with the state's "star witness." The fumphering Dee Dee, who regained her voice for her TV appearance.

Does anyone actually watch CNN?

The good news? Well, 5 other women gave her a choice. She'd either be the one who caused a hung jury. Or she'd join the rest.

Now, she can't live with herself?

Frau Fragezeichen

Missing from almost all of the reports (hear that Real Politics?):

She also said that the case shouldn’t have gone to trial and that it was “a publicity stunt.” Despite this, she said the decision weighed heavily on her.
Why isn't this an important part of her interview?
Threadkiller

By me?

Extraneus

Just curious about why you think that his LSAT score would be meaningful.

I know this thread is probably dead now, but I think it would be meaningful if every American knew that, while some supposedly famous presidential scholar declared Obama the smartest man ever to become president, he wasn't even as smart as most people who were rejected by HLS that year. All of those rejected people had to go to lesser schools and accept lesser jobs and money upon graduation, and lesser lifetime careers. Yes, I assume it was AA that got him (and his wife) in, and I would like everyone to know that as a fact, because I think AA is a cancer on the Republic.

Nothing to do with his aptitude to be president, which I think we've all learned was supremely lacking by any measure.

narciso

Because it's not a'teaching opportunity' Frau.

narciso

Yes, all too much like Network;

Theo

Ex --

Thanks for your comments. I generally agree with you.

My own view is that Obama is without any doubt an affirmative action president. Does anyone, even those who admire him and agree with him, seriously contest that given his resume -- a lackluster career as a State Senator and four years as a Senator -- Obama would have become president if he were NOT black.

Lydia

you know what they say about snobs

daddy

Well if Obama did take an SAT my guess is that his score was probably no worse than McCain's and likely better.

Extraneus

Noted historian:

Michael Beschloss: “…this is a guy (Barack Obama) whose IQ is off the charts…”

Imus: “Well. What is his IQ?”

Historian Michael Beschloss: “Pardon?”

Imus: “What is his IQ?”

Historian Michael Beschloss: “Uh. I would say it’s probably - he’s probably the smartest guy ever to become President.”

I want to live long enough to see those charts.

Holly, the cute one, not the drama queen

Nevertheless, Extraneus, he rose to become a U. S. Senator and a President Of The United States.


And you accomplished what? Creepy loser and invisible nobody status? Shut up, pipsqueak.

Carol Herman

Obama was born in Seattle, Washington. The man claimed to be the dad was married to someone else.

And, Stanley Ann Dunham lived in Seattle, Washington for two years. Before she got permission from her parents to "set sail" for Hawaii.

Back in 1961 single women just didn't have babies.

And, white teenagers made up the biggest market in adoptable births. Because it was a Church run unwed mother's home.

What surprised the doctors? When Obama was born mixed race children weren't "adoptable."

Don't conflate the early years in 1960, with what happened "after." And, because of the draft, and the war in Nam, lots of American 18 year olds ran to Canada. Stanley Ann Dunham was not among them.

Birthers want Kenya.

Nope.

Kenya's not where Stanley Ann Dunham went. But, yup. She went to Seattle, Washington. And, her parents were furious. (Typical at that time when parents discovered their "little girl" was sexually active.)

jorod

No evidence that Zimmerman intended to kill Martin. Well, the Democrats and liberals never let the facts get in the way of the truth. So why start now?

Joan

As mentioned before, this thread is probably dead or dying ... but, as far as Zimmerman, it's a shame how the continuing grievances of the blacks has twisted what the trial was about.

And, as far as wanting to know the truth about the history of a president, I think it's legitimate. While I don't want to be lumped in with "birthers", (the way the media has portrayed all of them), I would love to know everything about POTUS's background. The reason, so that the truth could be rammed down the throats of the media, the democrats, people like David Brooks, who actually fell in love with the crease in a pair of pants and deemed that it made him worthy of this great nation. Yes,, I would love to know he made terrible grades, was really a mediocre person who got by because the Democratic establishment got behind him, and expose his administration for the sham it is. As far as whether or not any of this has any bearing on his "qualifications" to be president, this isn't the point. I believe in truth. Sometimes it is the only thing that preserves us, gives us integrity. The American people deserve the truth.

Janet

Well said, Joan. I totally agree.

Gus

Maybe B29 is evolving.

narciso

Well Gus, as pointed out in the other thread, this account being presented by ABC, the folks who brought you Charlie Gibson's Emmy Award winning interview of Sarah was 'fake but accurate,' suffering from similar editing
problems.

He's fake, it is all one.

You watch, a midwife in Hawaii who poorly documented, perhaps even incorrectly or egregiously, but well enough to satisfy some authorities.

But 'natural born'.

But Indonesian citizen.

But fallen away Muslim.
==============

Tom Perkins

"The voters knew of these possibilities and did not care (or did not know and did not care)."

No they did not "know" those possibilities, because the news dissemination institutions trusted by most LiV's and even the "elites" lied and said there was nothing to any of them.

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