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February 19, 2014

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Sandy Whenzdaze

70 degrees F here in Southeast Virginia.

Jane, how much is today's snow ?

MarkO

Nothing says opportunity like being fired.

Sandy Whenzdaze

I recall the kicker is that when the minimum wage goes up, many Union employees get a raise as well, as much of the Union scale, I recall from the last time the minimum wage was raised, is a multiple of the minimum.

That is, if the minimum is raised from USD $7.25 to USD $10.10, for example, the Union minimum will increase something similar to this example (not sure what the precise multiple is, and my guess it is variable depending on the particular union's contract with the particular employer)

$7.25 x 3=$21.75 (old union starting)

$10.10 x 3=$30.30 (new union starting)

Probably the higher brackets for union employees are similarly structured, so that entry-level employees will not overtake existing employees in base pay.

I think this administration effort is not/NOT about helping those burger flippers, but rather another, yet ANOTHER payoff to his union buddies.

I would not be surprised that the EO raising the minimum for federal contract employees, effects very very few if/IF any, but it will likely effect tens of thousands of union employees across the country, particularly AFCME and the teachers' unions.

Cecil Turner

The bigger impact is to reduce the number of entry-level jobs available (and presumably entrench many in the improved minimum wage jobs, further reducing opportunity).

NK(withnewsoftware)

Sandy-- the push for the Min wage is a payoff to Union Thugs, especially SEIU, there's no question about that. The number of min wage jobs falls, and the income of min wage earners are flat or fall. The beneficiaries are union workers with seniority who realize a gain AND AREN'T LAID off from the resulting RIF.

rich@gmu

figure it would be 5x what cbo thinks it might be. it is such a kooky policy, I fully expect the dc establishment to enact it.

NK(withnewsoftware)

It's 1940 all over again-- the Finns humiliate the Russians.

MarkO

I've often wondered about the phrase "instant lawsuit." Is it 1830 somewhere?

Jack is Back

Now its 5-1 USA. Phil Kessel. They just over-ran the Czechs with that goal. The Czechs are long in the tooth. Both Jagr and Medvedev are 42 and there is no way they can keep up with the USA speed.

80F here on the First Coast.

Jane-curling is on!

Sandy,

It literally started 10 minutes ago. Very heavy with no place to go. It's supposed to turn to rain in a few hours.

Jack is Back

Sandy,

I think you are correct for certain CBA's. Building Trades are different especially those working under a project agreement.

In San Francisco, the thing the members of the plumber's union watches is the price of JetB aviation fuel.

Anyone who has ever had to use a SF plumber on a sunday night understands that little joke above:)

Jack is Back

Wow! Doc Emrick just said Cananda and Latvia are tied 1 all in the 3rd. Now that would be a bigger upset than the Finns beating Russia earlier.

Eric in Boise

Related: the Boise fishwrap (Idaho Statistman) ran the NYT "Rodeo Clowns" minimum wage story on the front page this morning, above the fold. Mrs. E was wondering how I could respond to the talking points before even reading the story :)

Jack is Back

The Czech's just scored to make it 5-2 USA. 7 minutes to go.

narciso

Well Colbert is only a slight exaggeration of O'Reilly, as was mused on at the time, we could have thought up of a dozen follow up question to that dialogue, and Bernie,
had to blather about the Huntress, because he hasn't had an original notion since 2008,

Of course, we are saddled with Rick Sanchez
as our lead in to Rush, because having him be the drive time reporter causes enough problems

Jack is Back

Canada beats Latvia on a late goal 2-1. Setting up a semi-final between Canada and USA.

Thomas Collins

Good news for Broonz fans, as the FinnMan Rask stuffs the Putinskis!

Jack is Back

Team USA wins. Canada next. Oops I am premature. Canada has not won but are up 2-1 with 1:38 to go.

H.  Cortes

Lessee; $7.25 to $10.10 is a 39% increase so a Big Mac currently is 2.99 will make that.....$4.16

Or, at 28% margin on each burger sale, they could hold their price and steal business from BK, converting a whopper sale into a Big Mac.

Use the WalMart philosophy-sell a crapload for less and watch the numbers grow.

It's the free market baby.

Jack is Back

Canada survives and wins.

Off to pickup Frederick.

rich@gmu

the underpants gnome theory of the min wage...

rich@gmu

Posted by: NK(withnewsoftware) | February 19, 2014 at 02:27 PM

in other breaking news the sun will set in the west this evening.

henry

Well, it seems the local paper hit paydirt on the emails. The boyfriend of a Walker staffer set up a pro-Walker website in 2010. Walker wasn't bothered by the name (HE APPROVED IT !!eleventy!!). For clarity, it was the boyfriend of a male staffer. The mail staffer went to jail.

rich@gmu

The best way to raise wages, therefore, is to raise labor productivity.
This can be done by many methods: by an increase in capital accumulation—
i.e., by an increase in the machines with which the workers
are aided; by new inventions and improvements; by more efficient
management on the part of employers; by more industriousness and efficiency on the part of workers; by better education and training.
The more the individual worker produces, the more he increases the
wealth of the whole community. The more he produces, the more his
services are worth to consumers, and hence to employers. And the
more he is worth to employers, the more he will be paid. Real wages
come out of production, not out of government decrees.

from "Economics in One Lesson" pp.118-119. from Ch.18 Minimum Wage Laws

henry

Rich, remember wages are only part of total compensation... little govt things like payroll taxes (employer side), unemployment insurance, ACA mandates, etc. may increase faster than productivity (and have been lately). Thus the government steals the productivity benefit from the worker.

Porchlight

Oh goodness, please be kind and stop with the Olympics spoilers! Some of us are at work and would actually like to watch later on...
:)

NK(withnewsoftware)

Kiev-- these photos are shocking. Kiev looks like one of those WWII video games-- we have to see these from the UK Daily Mail? The US Media have become nothing less than a ministry of proaganda for their Dem teammates: http://hotair.com/archives/2014/02/19/kerry-to-demand-partial-settlement-freeze-in-israeli-palestinian-talks/

Thomas Collins

Sorry, Porchlight. Ignore what I said about the Finland-Putinski men's hockey game. I have no idea what happened in that game!

rich@gmu

henry-

>>>may increase faster than productivity (and have been lately). Thus the government steals the productivity benefit from the worker.<<<

a few threads back was making trying to make the argument that the ACA was acting like a price control on the nonmonetary component of compensation. brb

Bori

"... boosting their average
family income by about 3 percent and moving about
900,000 people, on net, above the poverty threshold
(out of the roughly 45 million people who are
projected to be below that threshold under
current law"

So this anti-poverty measure will only decrease poverty by 5% while decreasing the jobs of 33% of those making minimum wage. Wow, that sounds like a winner! (sarc off)

rich@gmu

...making trying...

TCFAB. It's got be 5 o'clock somewhere.

Porchlight

Duly forgotten, TC. Thanks! :)

I am more interested in figure skating to be honest. Sadly the ice dancing final the other night was ruined by spoilers to the point that I didn't even bother watching. Hoping to avoid that tonight but it ain't easy!

Bori

Sorry, wrong numbers, it should be 2% moved out of poverty and 3% losing their jobs. My bad.

rich@gmu

henry-

another point I was thinking about is how it is reported that wages aren't going up but the other part healthcare is never included in the discusion.

RuthbeRolled

Clarice,

Why do you sit in silence as millions of Scooterfish die needlessly at the hands of Japanese whalers? Huh?

rich@gmu

TC-

another poly sci grad here. still don't know what I want to do yet...sadly.

henry

Rich, all compensation components are "monetary" to the employer. The notion that "wages" are the cash to the employee is the problem. The stated cash pay tends to be sticky (reducing a salary or hourly rarely happens). When the government portion of compensation increases faster than productivity, cash pay is flat and the employer gets less value per employee. If productivity rises faster at some later time, the employer needs to catch up on value before cash wages can increase. Cherry picking end points leads to "all employers are evil" screeds in the WSJ.

RuthbeRolled

Clarice,

Do you know Henry Miller? Just asking. No, wait. I'm outraged.

rich@gmu

oh great, bats.

thought I left those behind in Gainesville...

rich@gmu

>>>reducing a salary or hourly rarely happens<<<

cut hours. problem solved.

rich@gmu

more "Economics in One Lesson"

>>>Thinking has become so emotional and so politically biased on the
subject of wages that in most discussions of them the plainest principles
are ignored. People who would be among the first to deny that
prosperity could be brought about by artificially boosting prices, people
who would be among the first to point out that minimum price
laws might be most harmful to the very industries they were designed
to help, will nevertheless advocate minimum wage laws, and denounce
opponents of them, without misgivings.<<<

RuthbeRolled

Clarice,

Have you ever clutched Pearls? I have. I'm clutching mine right now.

henry

Rich, cutting hours is a symptom, not a solution. Hours worked is based on demand for labor from the employers... if the spot on the demand curve moves right (high cost goes up faster than productivity -- higher price for labor), demand for labor goes down.

rich@gmu

henry-

are they really so desperate for dirt they are claiming that tid bit as a "win"? good grief.

(and we wonder why no one decent runs for elective office...differences aren't just politicized, they are criminalized).

rich@gmu

henry-

>>>if the spot on the demand curve moves right<<<

it is quantity demanded. (I may have just made a few econ professors get teary-eyed).

Captain Hate

Oh goodness, please be kind and stop with the Olympics spoilers! Some of us are at work and would actually like to watch later on...

Or some of us just don't care. I'm not sure if I find the irritation of the Horde giving constant updates to be outweighed by the unintentional humor of some of the dumbass hockey questions (they have two halftimes?).

NK(withnewsoftware)

Rich-- get used to this stuff, the Dems have been shove up against the wall, the chances of holding the Senate are slim, Obummer's voters are never going to love HildaBeast, so for both of those reasons they have to smear high profile repubs as much as possible, first to try to delegitimize what they will do with the budget reconciliation, and to make Obummer's voters hate repubs enough to vote for HildaBeast in '16. It's all battlespace prep for the Dems.

Frau Kino

"Kerry to demand partial settlement freeze in Israeli-Palestinian talks<"

Who does he think he is, Teh-ray-zah? What a maroon.

Old Lurker

I read the LUN and confess to having not one lick of sympathy for this guy.

rich@gmu

>>>(they have two halftimes?)<<<

get Vendette to set 'um straight.

Thomas Collins

Finding one thing "to do", Rich, is overrated. Living an overall life of discipline and continence, with measured time out for debauchery and a willingness to face up to consequences for excessive debauchery, is more important. For example, Obama has found his one thing to do, namely, be the mouthpiece for the expansion of the middle class crushing administrative state through the nationwide application of thuggish machine politics. George Washington, on the other hand, never figured out whether he wanted to be a farmer, surveyor, estate manager, Virginia militiaman, Continental Army head honcho, retiree or Prez. Thank God George never settled on one thing.

Frau Kino

"President Obama said Wednesday that the Ukrainian government would face "consequences" if it crosses the line in cracking down on protesters in Kiev."

Were you able to read that without guffawing?

Thomas Collins

Frau, when I saw that article, my thought was a "line in the sand" drawn by Jimmy Carter would have more credibility.

Jack is Back

Have you hugged an engineer this week? Come on folks, its National Engineer's Week:

That's Sheldon Cooper's iconic clock that is on every engineer's cubicle wall (or should be:).

mad jack

A bad back and stupid too. Tough combination.

rich@gmu

>>>with measured time out for debauchery and a willingness to face up to consequences for excessive debauchery<<<

consequences? what is this that you speak of? and welcome back from Miami Beach. was meaning to ask what tattoo did you get?

Beasts of England

the underpants gnome theory of the min wage...

1. Collect Underpants
2. ?
3. Profit

(for those who don't follow South Park)

Classic, rich!

mad jack

Based on all the stories I've heard I think Michael Jackson's doctor is the only guy accepting Covered California enrollees.

Jack is Back

Boy, you guys a tough crowd.

OL,

I have to agree with you but as a Christian my prayers are with him. He lives in "Blue Hell" and is probably fed all that liberal/leaning pink pablum all his adult life and thinks its the insurance companies, doctors and call centers fault and nothing to do with politics or failed policy.

Frau,

Another drawn line? But less sand in the Ukraine. Has Obama ever visited Chernobyl? Know may be the time for a 3 day visit.

Thomas Collins

I was tempted, Rich. But I ended up not getting a tattoo. Maybe next time!

Jack is Back

...damn autocorrect - know = now......

rich@gmu

would it be Brittany, Ashley ... details TC details.

Thomas Collins

It would be a JOM lady, Rich. I would bid it out and make a lot of money from JOM ladies offering to pay me for NOT putting their name on my . . . well, better stop now, I'm in enough trouble already!

Marlene

Our 2nd district congressman (Mike Michaud) who is running for governor,released his economic plan today. One goal in his plan is to raise the minimum wage from $7.50 to $9.00. Another goal is to make the sophomore year of college at the University of Maine tuition free. Did I mention he's a Democrat? Gawd.

narciso

It does seem like Initech (re Offfice Space) is running much of everything, minus the TPS reports.

that's where the vulture transformer was hiding out, no.

rich@gmu

TC-

what no strippers?

oh...

Old Lurker

JiB I can pray for him too in the sense I pray for the eyes of all liberals to be opened to the stupidity and counter productivity of their beliefs.

I have no sympathy for him because he is exactly the sort of LIV who empowered his leaders to ruin this country. He made his bed, he can lie in it.

Ignatz

The guy with the back problem is in a small town about an hour south of me in the large geographical red zone of CA.
I have considerable sympathy for the guy.
Thanks almost wholly to Barrycare the premium on his old plan apparently shot out of affordability so what choice did he have?
All of these new Barrycare plans have very narrow networks trying to save money and keep premiums down.
The guy got screwed by our lovely government goldbricks here to help us and shoved into the cattle car healthcare planned for all of us.
Did he have another choice?

rich@gmu

and the only thing missing is a meeting with the bob's...

clarice

A major factor in increased productivity is the availability of cheap energy. Another reason why the minimum wage increase under an Administration that is reducing the opportunities for increased productivity is outrageously stupid.

rich@gmu

a hate this fucking job. it is a fucking sorority house.

narciso

'what is it exactly you do here' it was the closest thing to live action dilbert

narciso

Meanwhile DHS embargoed Salt to NJ, because it's some kind og WMD or something?

MarkO

Who is supposed to be saving money from ObamaCare and why?

Anyone could have had a high deductible, low benefit plan. Now we all have to have one.

Marlene

narc,the salt is at a terminal in Searsport. Fun fact...the salt for our snowy,icy roads comes from Chile.

Dave (in MA)

OL, I'd have more sympathy for the guy if I knew he didn't vote for Odumbo.

rich@gmu

>>>Who is supposed to be saving money from ObamaCare and why?<<<

ask Julia, the mythical stand in who would be helped. or Sandra Fluke-she's running for office.

>>>'what is it exactly you do here'<<<

want to go Michael Bolton on a fax machine...

Jane-curling is on!

I was at the docs today and heard for the first time: "The insurance company has to approve that procedure." Pretty damn chilling.

Capn' re: our earlier conversation - Sean Hannity is at the same place for me as Bill O'Reilly. I find them both useless and un-listenable even in the background.

Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself

Anyone could have had a high deductible, low benefit plan. Now we all have to have one.

Hah! Too true, MarkO.

rich@gmu

and looking over the thread I just might get that meeting with the bob's...ooops.

Eric in Boise

Re the guy in Sac Town, I'd love to see the following bumper sticker this election season:

"If you can read this, thank a teacher.

If you can read it in english, thank a soldier.

If your health care went to s**t this year, thank a Democrat."

Old Lurker

That story could have been written in Britain a gazillion times since they socialized their medical system, and there were no end of warnings that exactly this sort of sob story would occur here when we did the same thing. That he happens to live in the nuttiest of nutty blue states is tough luck for him.

He and his pals should not have ruined his great state.

Sorry.

narciso

Well Hannity, is a little unsubtle, however,
he has never given Obama a break, as O'Reilly has done on many occasion.

rich@gmu

OL-

actions -> consequences. imagine that.

Stephanie VIP shhhhh its fight club

With the talk about debauchery and Miami, I read that as a meeting with the boobs and wondered for a moment if we had a secret assignation going on behind the scenes between a couple of JOMers.

Sometimes the quick topic changes make for some interesting puzzles.

Old Lurker

Oh, and he can thank his gal pal Nancy Pelosi for screwing him.

They did it to themselves and flushed us down the pipe at the same time.

Captain Hate

Sean Hannity is at the same place for me as Bill O'Reilly. I find them both useless and un-listenable even in the background.

I'm not the biggest Hannity fan but he's never said half of the populist blather that BOR spews out whenever the topic is the economy. BOR had a good education I'm sure, and there's no excuse for some of the witlessness he produces in large quantities.

jimmyk on iPad

"On balance, national income rises by about $2 billion for the second half of 2016; the longer run impact is roughly neutral, with a projected decline of total employment of 500,000, as noted above."

I haven't read the CBO detailed analysis, but I can't imagine any way in which total income could in erase, except by inflation (so not a true increase). If a worker's wage is forced up, one of three things happens: you get rid of him, so his income goes down, you keep him, so your income goes down by as much as his goes up, or you keep him and raise your price. Or some combination. Only in the last case does total income go up, but you're not producing any more, it's just higher prices for the same stuff.

So either the CBO is sprinkling magic Keynesian fairy dust into their analysis, or they are not adjusting for inflation. Either way is BS.

jimmyk on iPad

"in erase" = increase /autocorrect

hit and run

rich:
TCFAB. It's got be 5 o'clock somewhere.

What is this 5 o'clock of which you speak? Does it have some significance related to when I should or should not call for a beer?

rich@gmu

>>>sprinkling magic Keynesian fairy dust<<<

the money illusion...they can trick some, maybe many, for awhile.

yikes...Stephanie and Old Lurker.

wish I had a ... nevermind.

rich@gmu

quitting time...happy hour?

but anytime is TCFAB time.

Old Lurker

I guess the part of that story that pushes my buttons is how CBS wants to corner the doctor like on 60 minutes for not accepting Covered California patients while not mentioning that perhaps the website was wrong. (In the video the news anchor called attention to that but the reporter was clueless).

The story also creates the impression that he had been covered under his old plan but when they switched to a new plan to lower the price, the doctor they had selected was not in the new plan. Hmmm. I call BS. This problem had existed for months, so if it was covered under the plan he had months ago, why did he not get it fixed? So maybe it wasn't covered and he was hanging on to get into the "nobody can be turned down" nirvana he thought would appear Jan 1.

Not buying it.

hit and run

This Calls For A Beer

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