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April 24, 2014

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Jane

Such BS

Specter

Let's see - my wife earns more than me for basically the same occupation - her salary is higher than mine by close to 20%. But If I work 80 hours and make more than her 60 hours does that mean that there is a pay differential in my favor?

Danube on iPad

"if firms did not have an incentive to disproportionately reward individuals who labored long hours and worked particular hours,”

What is or is not proportionate is something known only to Dr. Goldin.

I wonder if she is aware that in the legal profession compensation is hugely influenced by how much business you bring in, not how many hours you work.

George

I think one of the most insightful comments I have seen on this subject was that if companies can pay women 77% of what they have to pay men for the same job, why would any company hire any men.

Jane

I agree George.

Happy, happy, joy, joy Ignatz

Because white men own companies and the only thing they love more than money is oppressing minorities and woman.

Happy, happy, joy, joy Ignatz

*women*

Cecil Turner


She sums up the problem in page four, citing these as examples of the "greatest nonlinearities":

Often those are winner-take-all positions, such as partner in a firm, tenured professor at a university, or top manager.
In summing up the solution, she argues for greater flexibility and says:
What the last chapter must contain for gender equality is not a zero sum game in which women gain and men lose.
Obviously, however, that is inconsistent. If the "winner" is the biggest driver of pay "convexity," then the only solution is to change the winner. And that's the definition of a zero sum game.

But the bottom line is that most of the pay "discrimination" is the result of women deciding to become mothers and dropping out of the labor market. I'm not sure why (or how) the government is supposed to regulate that, nor convinced that it should.

matt

I see that Obama was bowing down to our robot overlords while we were sleeping......

Threadkiller

In California surgeons/physicians have to be paid under a certain base hourly wage to be eligible for overtime:

http://www.dir.ca.gov/oprl/Physicians.pdf

You can also be exempt from overtime if you are part of a collective bargaining agreement:

http://law.onecle.com/california/labor/514.html


Is the claim that women are treated differently within a collective bargaining agreement?

Assuming both the male and female doctors earn an overtime eligible wage, is 'time and a half' factored into the disparity above 40 hours? It would widen the gap much more quickly.

Danube on iPad

"I'm not sure why (or how) the government is supposed to regulate that"

It's not. The sole purpose of all this bullshit is to get the soreheads and whiners to the polls.

rich@gmu

>>>What remains is largely how firms reward individuals who differ in their desire for various amenities. These amenities are various aspects of workplace flexibility. Workplace flexibility is a complicated, multidimensional concept. The term incorporates the number of hours to be worked and also the particular hours
worked, being “on call,” providing “face time,” being around for clients, group
meetings, and the like. Because these idiosyncratic temporal demands are generally
more important for the highly-educated workers, I will emphasize the college educated and occupations at the higher end of the earnings distribution.<<<

hummm (lets see if I can make an economics professor misty eyed) ... there is a substitution effect of labor for leisure (or personal time) as income increases ...

(or iirc cathyf provided an example-would a woman working at a high level in a STEM field want to have Sheldon as a office mate for any measurable length of time).

rich@gmu

and i'm trying to figure out the extrapolation of this:

>>>occupations at the higher end of the earnings distribution<<<

to this:

>>>Pay Gap Is Because of Gender, Not Jobs<<<

rich@gmu

TK-

CA overtime rules are different than the rest of the nation.

cathyf

I would actually expect that the 80-hr-wk women make slightly more than the 80-hr-wk men. Because I would think that more of the women would have more choices (high-earning wives having high-earning husbands being more common than high-earning husbands having high-earning wives being the main reason) than the men, so employers would have to offer more to outbid the other choices.

When I was in college we noticed a curious effect... In the cases where both husband and wife were professors, the wife was always better than the husband. Apparently an academic star woman can get a job for her husband, but the men don't have as much pull.

Threadkiller

CA overtime rules are different than the rest of the nation.

So they don't count in the aggregate?

narciso

Btw, in the midst of the 'Squirrel' the real point of the Nagourney story, was missed, the Center for Biological Diversity, is in a seemless sysgy with the BLM, Soros appendage # 24.

lyle

Whatever one's opinion of George Will, this is spot on:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/376446/adolescent-president-george-will

Jack is Back! (From Resetting Safari and Clearing History)

Well if they do send in the Marines to the Bundy ranch, I hope they are lad by this sargent:)

Not your Dad's corp anymore!

lyle

In my town, almost all of the top producing real estate agents are women. I'd venture to guess that's true in many cities. What do the credentialled morons make of that?

narciso

So the French Krugman has been slapped upside the head, by Crook on the center left, McArdle in the center, and even Galbraith fils on the far left,

Jack is Back! (From Resetting Safari and Clearing History)

That Will piece is spot on. He must be a reader of JOM since we have all made those same 4 points about Obama's pathology since day one. Thanks for catching up, George.

Neo

As an (unemployed, but soon to be employed) engineer, I can say at my last job working 40 hours a week only happened when there was little to do.
10, 12, 14 and 16 hour days, sometimes 6 or 7 days a week during "crunch time" are not that rare. In many ways telecommuting make matters worse because there are no limits to how much you can work, except when you fall asleep in front of your computer.

Threadkiller

"ATTORNEY LARRY KLAYMAN, WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE BUNDY FAMILY WILL ANNOUNCE TO THE WORLD WHAT FUTURE ACTION WILL BE TAKEN IN THE NOW INFAMOUS BLM STANDOFF AT THE BUNDY RANCH.

TOMORROW:  THURSDAY 24TH APRIL, 2014 AT 1 PM AN IMPORTANT PRESS CONFERENCE IS SET TO BE HELD AT THE BUNDY RANCH IN NEVADA."

http://patriotsbillboard.org/bundy-ranch-constitutional-crisis-alert-for-immediate-release

MaxB

Sadly, all people are not equal. If they were I would be an NFL quarterback.

I think another problem here is with the definition of "work." Conservatives seem to think of "work" as production. So, they hear "equal pay for equal production," in terms of quality and/or volume of a product or service.

Liberals seem to think of "work" as time spent on the job. So, they hear "equal pay for equal time," without considering what the result of that time was.

It seems to me that, just as there are super stars in entertainment and sports, there are also super stars in politics, law, literature, medicine, and most likely, every field. My guess is that most of those super stars are under paid in terms of their production value to a company.

hit and run

Whew. Schumer's on the case of the spent grain rule that could cause the price of beer to skyrocket.

Go Chuck go!

Flashback from 2009: What's More Bi-Partisan Than Beer?

Miss Marple

Uh-oh. Larry Klayman is a loose screw.

He must have figured out a way to make money off of this.

stan

Another big driver of pay difference is that in the case of a law firm, per capita share of overhead for partners is huge. Every lawyer uses the same amount of parking space, office, furniture, secretary, library, lobby, receptionist, etc. It comes to a really big number. So if the atty who works 60 hrs/wk grossed 600k and the female who works 30 hrs/wk grossed 300k, after deducting their shares of overhead (assume 150k to make the math easy), his take home is not twice hers, but 3 times hers.

Obviously, math is sexist.

AliceH

--I would actually expect that the 80-hr-wk women make slightly more than the 80-hr-wk men.

I agree.

Rick Ballard

"of the top producing"

Lyle,

How dare you interject the concept of productivity into a discussion dependent upon the presumption of total equality without reference to merit. I suppose your next gambit will be an attempt to inject factual evidence regarding inherent differences in ability or skill or even some paternalistic and racist nonsense regarding measurable and substantive differences pertaining to practical IQ.

Have you no shame?

daddy

No news articles at all on the Nevada ranch kerfuffle until they found him saying something they could call racist.

Excellent point, Dave (in MA).

Stephanie

Great points, Max and Stan.

There is also good productivity and bad productivity, just cause you can shuffle paper doesn't mean it was a value added item.

Reminds of the prog youngsters absolutely gobsmacked that they didn't make the cut on American Idol. They sang therefore they are worthy of the next level. That my dog howled, the cat ran for cover and the mirrors shattered didn't matter one whit, they were as worthy of making the cut as the one with the voice of an angel; therefore, they should be rewarded.

How much would the disparities be if we redefined this 'wage gap inequality' if it was based on IQ? or productivity? or gasp... 'race or ethnicity?"

Gender is a herring to be gutted and filleted and presented on a pretty platter, but you should ignore the fishy smell emanating from the plate.

jimmyk

Note the straw man, er, person:

“There is a belief, which is just not true, that women are just in bad occupations and if we just put them in better occupations, we would solve the gender gap problem,” Dr. Goldin said.

(my emphasis). None of the "gender gap skeptics" that I've heard have ever put value judgments on different kinds of jobs. If anything, the lower paying jobs are probably "good" in the sense that they are less demanding, more flexible, etc. And guess what, not surprisingly those perks come at a price.

And who would work 80 hours/week at only twice what they could earn for 40 hours/week? Not very many people, I suspect. The real issue is that these broad categories like "doctors and surgeons," which lump together dermatologists and brain surgeons. There are huge differences in demands and hours across specialties within "doctors and surgeons," and it would be very surprising if women didn't gravitate toward those less demanding specialties.

AliceH

--my last job working 40 hours a week only happened when there was little to do

...and I agree with this, too. In my IT job, we used to joke that if you only work 40hrs/week it counts as taking vacation time.

btw, one of the more unattractive elements of the Primary Care Docs I follow on twitter is the constant complaints of having to work 50-60hrs week (sometimes more!!), but how it wouldn't be so bad if only patients used their allotted 15" right, and if Insurers just stopped demanding compliance for payment. It's a wholly different set of expectations than I ever had about being a highly paid professional.

Stephanie

True, JimmyK.

Not one female has called BS on the specious argument that you just show up at ER and the OB on call for the hospital delivers your child not the OB you've seen for 40 weeks...

Total BS as most OBs are in group practices that over the course of the 40 weeks will have you see each doctor in said practice knowing that whoever from that practice (not some phantom ER OB) will be doing the delivery is who you will get.

Contrary to the TV shows, ER, Grey's Anatomy, etc., hospitals do not have a specialist on call for every specialty in house and just waiting for you to show up so they can perform.

This argument is just some progs/idiots arguing about straw men constructed in glass houses in each other's heads based on media inventions.

Jack is Back! (From Resetting Safari and Clearing History)

Larry Klayman is our side's Gloria Allred then?

Both are loons.

Jim Rhoads f/k/a vnjagvet

Was the subject study designed by a wise Latina? It appears to be using much of the kind of "logic" displayed in the Schuette dissent the other day.

Danube on iPad

Bundy has just delivered up some highly dumb remarks on "the Negro." that don't cut it in today's world.

rich@gmu

...and i wanted to make an econ prof misty-eyed. dang it.

DoT-

yeah those were intemperate comments he made.

Miss Marple

Danube, I don't care. He still has rights, same as Al Sharpton.

It would be nice if we could have found a Marlboro Man type cowboy, but Bundy is the LAST ONE because the BLM has driven all the rest in his area out of business.

You go to war with the army you have.

AliceH

Excellent all around post, analysis and ponderables, Tom.

Stephanie

I don't care. He still has rights, same as Al Sharpton.

Posted by: Miss Marple | April 24, 2014 at 02:25 PM

And just as importantly to the progs...

HIS COWS HAVE RIGHTS!!

Who is gonna stand up for the cows that were innocently slaughtered by the BLM?

Where is PETA demanding justice for the ovine?

Threadkiller

Today's world:

Reid Once Called Obama Light-skinned With 'No Negro Dialect',

http://m.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/01/09/reid-once-called-obama-light-skinned-no-negro-dialect-media-mostly-mu

That cuts it?

narciso

I recall Walt Kowalski, the protagonist of 'Grand Torino' was not terribly PC either,

Stephanie

It came out of an approved collectivists mouth so it was instantly converted from racist bullshit to angel farts as sweet as honey, TK.

Babblefish instead of Babelfish.

Captain Hate

We need clean togas, dammit!!

Miss Marple

Stephanie, I just said the same thing on another site!

The cows weren't racists, so why were they executed?

Danube on iPad

"That cuts it?"

Not even Larry Klayman would dream that Reid, or Robert Byrd, or Hymietown Jackson would be held to the same standard as a white western redneck.

Jane

James,

I keep stealing your Bundy quote. I hope that's okay with you.

Miss Marple

Danube, the question is "Why not?"

Why aren't they held to the same standard? Who is setting this standard? Where do we go to apply for exemptions?

Threadkiller

Bundy is held to a different standard so we shouldn't go after the standards?

Porchlight

Yep. He's a racist. Round 'em up fellas and if someone gets shot, well, he was a racist, wasn't he?

Stephanie

I'd go after those claiming the mantel of standard bearers... but that's just me, I guess.

centralcal

We use FedEx a lot at my office and we receive lots, too.

I see one arrived today with a nifty(?) green "earthsmart" logo, telling me it was FedEx carbon-neutral envelope shipping.

Even more messaging on the back about sustainability and carbon offsets, yadda, yadda.

sheesh. Wonder if Daddy has been stamped with a green logo too?

Threadkiller
Our Photoshopping Disorder: The Truth in Advertising Bill Asks Congress to Regulate Deceptive Images

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/22/our-photoshopping-disorder-the-truth-in-advertising-bill-asks-congress-to-regulate-deceptive-images.html

Whitehouse Xerox machines hardest hit.

NK(withnewsoftware)

TK-- go after Reid; go after Holder go after all Dem race baiting.

It's an Alinksky Rule that works, hold your political opponents to there own standards. When your Lefty friends say Bundy's a racist old coot, simply say, "I don't know who or what Bundy is, do you? all I know is that your senate leader called the POTUS the same thing, and harry reid is using the BLM like a private army in some kind of land swindle. That's what I care about, let's look into all that."

daddy

I would be interested in seeing not who makes the most money, but who spends the most money, Men or Women.

Cecil Turner

HIS COWS HAVE RIGHTS!!

Damn straight! Red State Update said it best:

Jackie: Now everybody knows cows're more important than a bird.
Dunlap: Why is a cow more important than a bird?
Jackie: Because they're bigger . . . and they taste better.

James D.

Jane, no problem - steal away!

Stephanie

I'm sick of sustainability/greenness/charity touting by all corporate entities...

If I want to donate to x y or z, I'll do so, but don't proclaim your awesomeness for increasing your prices just so you can donate to approved charities and wave your righteousness in front of my nose to show off what an awesome do-gooder you claim to be when I really want to know what a good shipper you are.

Shippers, ship. Do what you are good at and leave the do gooding alone. Jacks of all trades are masters of none.

narciso

But Lord Shinseki wouldn't let this happen, would he?

Threadkiller

When "they" go after Bundy, don't pile on.

Is that your advice, NK?

narciso

Beck has learned nothing about the last five years it seems.

lyle

Where is PETA demanding justice for the ovine?

In this case, you're missing a 'b', dearie. Cattle, not sheep.

NK(withnewsoftware)

No, I don't own Bundy, so he gets to fight his own character battles. If you adopt Bundy as a hero, you own him don't you, and are honor bound to 'Stand with Bundy'.

Instead, my advice is to make our Lefty friends stand with alleged pederast Harry reid and arsonist ally Al Sharpton.

lyle

Have you no shame?

I've reported to the nearest re-education camp and confessed my though crimes, Rick.

narciso

that ship with Sharpton capsized 25 years ago, he destroyed the lives of Pagones was it, and did his best to destroy Zimmerman, even though he won,

MarkO on the road

In Nevada, the term of art seems to be "Negro."

The issue, however, is not that the rancher was a saint, but that the totalitarian government accidentally showed itself.

Danube on iPad

"Bundy is held to a different standard so we shouldn't go after the standards?"

Go after them all you like. Just don't expect any results.

Stephanie spring sprung baseballs back umm ummm umm

Bovine, ovine.

Typos. Autocorrect. Fat fingered. Brain fart.

Yeah, That's the ticket.

jimmyk

If you adopt Bundy as a hero, you own him don't you

I haven't followed this word for word, but is anyone here saying he is a hero, as opposed to saying he has the same right to due process, reasonable search and seizure, etc., as anyone else, and that the government's response has been excessive? That's all I've heard here. And even if someone suggests that by standing up for rights he is doing something heroic, that doesn't require endorsing his entire corpus of thought (i.e. "owning him"). That's absurd.

lyle

From that link:

It’s your call Democrats: Get angry and vote or prepare to watch Cruz, Mitch McConnell and their right-wing buddies run the Senate.

Is he referring to a different Mitch McConnell that I know of?

narciso

'isolate, polarize, separate all bases of support'
what is this GroundHog Day.

narciso

'One of these things, are not like the other'

Danube on iPad

"The issue, however, is not that the rancher was a saint, but that the totalitarian government accidentally showed itself."

All here are agreed that that's the issue. But just sit back and watch how the media's notion of the issue changes now that the man has jumped stupid on us.

Jimmyk, no one here has made him a hero as far as I am aware. The buffoon Hannity is another matter....

daddy

test

lyle

Uh oh:

William Shatner tells Jesse Ventura that Hillary Clinton is the only candidate, who can unite the political parties, because she understands how to compromise.

Well she certainly compromised on security for Benghazi; compromised with Bill defending his cooter chase; compromised in the Senate in getting all the bills she introduced into law. Oops, maybe not that one.

MarkO on the road

I have not read the cases that Bundy lost. Is there a link. Perhaps the issue is simple and he's just living in the 1800's.

As you might guess, my sympathies lie with ranchers in the hundred year war with the BLM.

narciso

Maybe it's like that episode, when Kirk and other, switched places, makes as much sense as anything else,

Stephanie spring sprung baseballs back umm ummm umm

Exactly, jimmyk.

I'd stand up for Jeremiah Wright's right to say whatever the hell he wants or Fred Phelps (MHBIH) right to say whatever the hell HE wants. It's the RIGHT not the content that matters vis a vis the state. It's the culture that is responsible for rebuttal by debate or by shaming or shunning. And their only words I'd agree with would probably be the, and, or etc.

daddy

>>>If Republicans lose the Alaska Senate race, they'll have Sarah Palin to thank.<<<

good grief, that is in Politico.

On Local Talk Radio just heard an ad to join a write in campaign to draft Sarah Palin to challenge Begich for US Senator.

The group sponsoring the ad had "Tea Party" somewhere in its name, but was too long and the ad came on so quick I couldn't get specifics. I would not be surprised if it's a false flag outfit.

Sarah would not and will not win another election in Alaska.

Of interest to the guy who is challenging Begich for the Senate seat, today we get this from the ADN: Pro-Begich group goes after Koch brothers -- and GOP Senate challenger Sullivan

The latest ads by a pro-Mark Begich SuperPAC take on the billionaire industrialist Koch brothers -- and say the Kochs are supporting Republican Dan Sullivan. The Sullivan camp says that’s unfair. Sullivan hasn’t taken any money from the Kochs, the campaign says. Begich has, according to campaign filings.

...the ads by Koch-backed groups -- Americans for Prosperity, American Energy Alliance and Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce -- never mention Sullivan. Instead they go after Begich over the Affordable Care Act and whether he's waffled on a carbon tax -- he says he hasn't.

So they lie as usual. What else is new.


NK(withnewsoftware)

MarkO-- Ig linked to a waPo time line, which did not have the court decisions linked., but I thought the time line was very informative. Also, Hinderecker and Kevin Williamson had a sort of online debate a couple of weeks ago, about Bundy and his significance. You may want to read those.

Porchlight

But just sit back and watch how the media's notion of the issue changes now that the man has jumped stupid on us.

Of course. The media's goal here is for us to shut up about it and "distance ourselves" so they can make the maximum racket unchecked. Most of us are playing along nicely.

Captain Hate

Jesse Ventura talking politics with the Shat? That sounds like a Special Ed lineup.

NK(withnewsoftware)

William Shattner? he murdered his wife, isn't that a 'war on womenz'.

daddy

CC and Stephanie,

As I understand it, the colors on the logos and the trucks have to do with different entities within the expanding corporation as it's expanded:

So you have this

which translates into this:

.

Me, I'm still basic old purple and orange unless I'm doing Panda Bears

Off to work. Bye.

Captain Hate

William Shattner? he murdered his wife, isn't that a 'war on womenz'.

I saw some stinker movie he was in during the late 70s that was a war on my cortex.

anonamom

OT--just opened this big package that arrived, addressed to me--with customs stamps, no less!--and it is my copy of Ada Boni's Italian Regional Cooking---with a 3.50 pounds tag on it.
Copyright 1969.

It's a beauty!

Jack is Back! (From Resetting Safari and Clearing History)

From Don Surber's Scoreboard, the greatest Earth Day tweet of all time:)

Katewerk @katewerk · Apr 22
Murder a former lover and compost the remains. http://nbcnews.to/QuGs6k MT @younggreenscan What are you doing to celebrate #EarthDay? #cdnpoli
ReplyReplied to 0 times RetweetRetweeted 36 times36 FavoriteFavorited 10 times10

Referring, of course, to Earth Day co-founder Ira Einhorn. Remember that special POS?

Stephanie spring sprung baseballs back umm ummm umm

What media notion? Other than Fox every other outlet has mostly ignored anything Bundy.

Should most jump into it now, they run the risk of consumers looking for more info and drawing unacceptable conclusions. Can't have that, so they will elect to continue pressing the ignore button.

The NYT story was a designed alinsky whistle to warn off elected republicans. Sad to report that Pavlov continues to reign. Woof, good doggy.

Captain Hate

Good points, Steph. Top Men are having warm compresses put on their furrowed brows at the thought that comprehensive immigration reform could be sidelined by that parvenu Bundy. Oh the humanity.

MarkO on the road

“When it absolutely, positively needs to be there overnight.” Up, up and away.

How do I get a ride with daddy?

Happy, happy, joy, joy Ignatz

Put yourself in a box and FedEx yourself to Kuala Lampur.
Just don't take a Malaysian Airlines return flight.

narciso

that wasn't the Food of the Gods, or was it the one about witches in the Phillipines,

centralcal

There has been quite a run on Ada Boni's cookbook just from JOMers Amazon should offer it on Kindle or something. ha.

lyle

How do I get a ride with daddy?

Take Ig's advice or lyle's: wheel well.

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