Friday Night Late Night Open Thread

[BUMPED 5-22: Let's go another week!]

I surrender.  Let's have a Brady thread.

RESOLVED: Tom Brady is innocent of all wrong-doing and will be fully exonerated on appeal.

Away we go!

Balls to the wall.

There is only one rule in this argument: the last comment on the subject wins.

Link to Last Page of Thread.

Comments

[Frau Schimpfwort]

Great balls of fire!

[Jeff Dobbs]

I lied: there are two rules to this argument - the second rule is this: This will be the only thread on which Brady arguments are welcome.

New threads after this one should be Brady-free.

[Jane on Ipad]

So did Mitt win?

[narciso]

Well I,m not su.re about brady, but I trust Goodell right up there with 'Dr evil' see my dilemma

[Frau Schimpfwort]

Welcome Clarice's invited guests. I hope they are really angry. And I hope they remain here and are not interested in following the Brady bouncing balls.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

It appears to me that, at JOM anyway, repetitive, OCD type controversies abhor a vacuum and if one is extinguished another rises to take its place.

[Dave (in MA)]

Other Brady-related rules.

[Cecil Turner]

New threads after this one should be Brady-free.

I won't be the first to break this rule.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--So did Mitt win?--

The black dude knocked him out three and a half years ago.

[lyle]

I'm out.

[narciso]

Much like Cadmus teeth from the myth. Fr the last thread there was a week old interview of morell, in USA today, that removes all doubt

[Captain Hate]

Brutal week for DC sports as the Hawks move on to face the Cavs in the Eastern Conference finals. Nene is not the most popular person in DC right now.

[boatbuilder]

"New threads after this one should be Brady-free."

Does that mean we can't say "I told you so" when a judge or arbitrator says the NFL's suspension of Brady was unfounded? ;-)

Bytol.

[narciso]

Then there was that foreign policy of the latest mad imam that doha has given sanctuary.

[Theo]

Who is Brady? What office is he running for?

[Frau Schimpfwort]

TTFN...

[Threadkiller]

Rules???

http://www.birtherreport.com/2015/05/investigative-journalist-airport-photo.html

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

Who is this Tom Brady . . .

and why is he single-handedly trying to ruin the NFL ?

[narciso]

Ss ho happens to be chaplain for the kingdom's west point, and has lectured the interior ministry's office that guards the oil fields

[caro]

Brilliant posts, JD. Transitional.

[Dave (in MA)]

Patterico reports the same issue going on at his site as was reported here earlier today.

[clarice]

Nytol. Behave.

[Some Guy]

Apologies Mr. formerly hit Dobbs,

I didn't realize your new thread was a Deflate Zone, out of respect for all those sick of this subject I was trying to keep my comments on the subject on old threads where only those interested were interacting.

[jimmyk on iPhone]

Some Guy, Mr Dobbs has made it a point of JOM style that apologies are to be avoided.

[jimmyk on iPhone]

And I make no apologies because I have made all of about three comments in total on l'affaire Brady, and would prefer the whole topic to go away.

[jorod]

Who was cousin Oliver?

[Threadkiller]

"Ted Wells has come under fire in the wake of his “Deflategate” report. We all know about the punishments that have been handed down by now. Everyone has heard about the fine, the suspension, and the forfeiture of draft picks. There is no need to rehash. The country has spoken, and most NFL fans agree with the penalties, with the exception noted by the legions of Patriots fans.

After Tom Brady’s agent took the offensive, calling the report and Ted Wells out publicly, the Patriots responded. To their credit, they have attempted to back up their media blast of the Deflategate findings, publishing more than 20,000 words of their own. It goes into their experts scientific conclusions, different interpretations of the text messages, and boldly proclaims the Patriots innocence.

Many points noted here in the report are debatable. Whether you want to believe the assertions made by the Patriots legal team or not is up to you. But, they do poke holes, at least from their perspective, in Ted Wells’ report.

But, there is one glaring error that belies their case 100%. Even if you grant the holes in the report that the Patriots assert, there is one point in all of this that the report never disputes.

Take a look at a product of the “Deflategate” situation that seems to go forgotten (Pro Football Talk):

As part of the league’s announcement of the punishment of the team and Tom Brady for #DeflateGate, the Patriots admitted that “employees John Jastremski and James McNally have been indefinitely suspended without pay by the club, effective on May 6th.”

Look at the passage once more time. “…the Patriots admitted”. The Patriots handed down the punishments on the two major players in the scandal.

Why would the Patriots punish the two employees, if the team was “innocent”? For those of you reading this that manage people, would you suspend an employee for doing nothing wrong? I would think not.

The report never addresses that point. It makes a lot of references to the fact that there is no evidence that they deflated the footballs. Then tell us this, why did you suspend the employees?

The reason is that they are guilty, and everybody knows it. “Deflategate” came out with the correct result, no matter how loudly the Patriots proclaim their innocence."

http://www.endzonescore.com/new-england-patriots-deflategate-rebuttal-misses-one-major-point/15126

[boris]

Jeff, saw this at Patterico ...

Some people complained today about the page redirecting to some gardening site. The problem should be fixed. I think the culprit was the SiteMeter code, which I have removed. Thanks to happyfeet for that tip. Admin Guy is running some updates and whatnot as well. Let me know if things seem better.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--The reason is that they are guilty, and everybody knows it.--

Patriots defenders remind me of the OJ jury.
I see Brady painfully struggling to hold a football, his fingers curled up like Fred Sanford's, and it slipping out of his hand. If he lost his grip you must acquit. Giselle I'm comin to join ya honey.
In the meantime Tommy Boy is going to leave no stone unturned until he finds the real deflators.
Feh.

[Some Guy]

TK,

That's been the big talking point on ESPN. However, the news of the suspensions of the two employees didn't come from the Patriots, it was from an announcement from the NFL.

The "the Patriots admitted" isn't a quote at all from either the NFL or New England, it's the author's paraphrase at ProFootball Talk.

Here is the exact quote from the NFL:

"Patriots owner Robert Kraft advised Commissioner Roger Goodell last week that Patriots employees John Jastremski and James McNally have been indefinitely suspended without pay by the club, effective on May 6th. Neither of these individuals may be reinstated without the prior approval of NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Troy Vincent."

Given how much false information has already been leaked and or announced by the NFL, and that the Wells Report has been in the NFL's possession for quite awhile before it become public, do we know if the Patriots "fired" these guys, or did the NFL tell Kraft to suspend them?

[boris]

"Patriots defenders remind me of the OJ jury."

I'd say there was better evidence against OJ.

OTOH the evidence here reminds me of the Libby trial. Maybe some people who "just know that SOB is guilty" are like the Libby jury.

I watched a couple of Packer games and rooted against the Pats in the superbowl. On this I'm just skeptical. ManTran made a great point last thread,

"a handful of crap gauges worth, what ten bucks, and incompetently used, affect tens of millions of bucks is nuts"

[Threadkiller]

If there is nothing in print from the NFL stating that the NFL strongarmed Kraft, the evidence you produced makes it clear that Kraft suspended his would be innocent employees.

Correct?

[Some Guy]

Exactly boris. My sole interest in this is exactly like it was Libby, Zimmerman, Gentle Giant, etc. -- a dominate narrative and rush to judgement that simply wasn't/isn't supported by the FACTS.

[Some Guy]

No TK, it is only clear that the NFL announced that Kraft had suspended the employees. It isn't yet clear if Kraft did this on his own, or if the NFL ordered him too.

[Threadkiller]

Is it clear that Kraft didn't discuss how he came to suspending the Deflator in his rebuttal?

[Some Guy]

TK, not going down the rabbit hole with you on this. The rebuttal was specific to the Wells Report and you know it.

If you believe the NFL announcement means that Kraft did this on his own. Good for you. Go with that, and God speed.

I believe the NFL announcement is likely 'krafted' to their advantage.

We'll just disagree on how important this is or what it proves.

[Threadkiller]

The NFL can't be trusted with anything.

[Some Guy]

Well, you did say that you hate the NFL, so not sure why you would put any trust in them.

[Threadkiller]

Not sure why the Pat's would either.

Money?

[Threadkiller]

Goodnight, SG.

Hopefully Kraft will clear this up.

[Some Guy]

Captain Renault, is shocked! Shocked that money and the NFL are mentioned!

[maryrose]

Were they playing with illegal footballs or not

[Some Guy]

Night TK, and everyone. Happy Sunday.

[daddy]

Well this blows@#$!

I go away from this place for one day and what the hell happens?

Here I was all set to set up a skins and shirts Rugby scrimmage between the JOMer's with nicknames and the JOMer's with real names, and here Hit runs off and defects to the enemy:(

Hit "Jeff" could'a been on the team with Captain Hate, Miss Marple, Narciso, Frau, Ignatz, Anonamom, DrJ, Porchlight, Beasts, CentralCal, Manny T, Old Lurker's, New Lurkers, Young Lurkers, Threadkiller, Soylent, BoatBuilder, Sandy Daze and Some Guy, but no, here he is instead sliding over to hang with Clarice, Cecil, Jane, Tom Collins, Maryrose, Janet, Matt, JImmyK, Dave in Ma, Stephanie, Henry, Sue, GUS, Marlene, JamesD, NK, Peter, Jim Miller, and Boris.

Now I gotta' rearrange the whole damn line-up, and I still can't figure out where the heck to put JiB and Caro. @#$%.

If it ain't one thing around this place, Mister Dobbs, it's another:(

(So wha'do'ya guys think? Is Caro skins or should she wear a shirt?)

[glasater]

Ext-

How'd you know I was illegally photographing sunsets? :-)

Referring to the previous thread and so late in catching up.

[glasater]

Daddy, you forgot Extraneus and me in your lineup(s) ; )

[Jane]

I know Glas, I found Daddy's post quite daring because there is no way he could remember everyone.

[Marlene on the phone]

Good news! Spring has finally arrived in the Maine woods. The bad news is, pollen. I'm losing my voice,so hubby is happy. :)

[Extraneus]

Wasn't he the Koch brothers of the Clinton years?

$250,000-$500,000

Houghton Mifflin Harcourt
Publisher

Richard Mellon Scaife
Owner of Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/05/clinton-foundation-donors-include-dozens-of-media-207228.html

[James D.]

Brutal week for DC sports as the Hawks move on to face the Cavs in the Eastern Conference finals. Nene is not the most popular person in DC right now.

That was a tough loss, but it's not nearly as soul-killing as the Capitals loss was.

If nothing else, I don't think anyone had much hope of the Wizards being remotely competitive if they did manage to advance to face the LeBrons, let alone whoever comes out of the Western Conference.

[Miss Marple]

Good morning!

Anyone tired of the Deflategate controversy can amuse themselves speculating on this fight:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/05/we-gonna-just-you-up-black-ferguson-activists-threaten-white-liberals-for-protest-pay/

[henry]

MissM, the plantation dwellers are figuring out how limousine liberals get their limousines? When do they apply this clue to Jesse and Sharpton?

[Miss Marple]

henry,

Here is a lesson for them in self-sufficiency. They should never have trusted those hipster weasels with the cash,and should have done it themselves.

Of course, this would have required understanding how to set up a donation web site, so maybe some of them will take basic computer courses or something.

Why they trusted that group I do not know. One would think that the lessons of championship boxers and ball players bankrupted by unscrupulous agents and managers would be well known, but apparently not.

[boatbuilder]

Other Brady-related rules.

Posted by: Dave (in MA)
10:52

Heh, Dave. Obviously Brady's concerns in that video relate to tactile issues rather than inflation pressures.

[Extraneus]

Clintons report making $25M for speeches since Jan. '14

[Rick Ballard]

The OFA slaves should have had someone read them the enlistment contract when they made their mark to join the Free Shit Army. Just wait 'til they get the Loot Tax notice from OFA.

[Old Lurker]

I do believe stolen money is taxable income, Rick. (ask Al Capone). Surely the 1099's are in the mail?

[clarice]

I think the Ferguson rioters have a point..they were used to raise money for those hipster weasels.

[clarice]

Ah, I see rick beat me to it in far more colorful language as usual.

[Miss Marple]

clarice,

I think they have a point, too.

Publicity of the hipster weasel group's perfidy in this should be helpful.

What does this remind me of? The Clinton Foundation making money off the disaster victims in Haiti.

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

For henry, NK, JiB, or other soccer fans . . .

In Premier League action, a Southampton striker (Mane - from Senegal) just scored a hat trick in only 2:56 against Aston Villa.
Wow ! Said to be an all-time EPL record.

Game's being broadcast stateside on NBC Sports Network.

[Miss Marple]

The democrats have a long history of using blacks but not cutting them in on the loot.

It goes all the way back to them diverting money from the New York governor's race to try to defeat Jeb Bush, stiffing David Paterson. They also refused letting the Mayor of Atlanta Maynard Jackson run for head of the DNC, chose decrepit Mondale to run for Senate over a black Supreme Court justice Alan Page, and squashed Harold Ford Jr. when he wanted to challenge Pelosi.

It's very instructive when you link all of those events together.

[henry]

Thanks Michael!

Elsewhere, wag the dog. U.S. On the ground in Syria. I suppose Tstephanopoulis was getting too much attention.

[Rick Ballard]

It's actually the perpetual Clinton Campaign using tax deductible donations to the Foundation to finance itself. If the investigative press were not extinct, they would be trumpeting the names of Clinton campaign workers and vendors sustained by employment by the Foundation rather than paying access fees to it.

[maryrose]

RB
So true about the Clintons
MM Very good historical review of past offenses of the Dem crew

[jimmyk]

What could go wrong?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/opinion/let-syrians-settle-detroit.html

(h/t Tim Blair)

[Jeff Dobbs]

FTSAH: boatbuilder is winning the argument.

[Dave (in MA)]

The JV team needs a new captain.

[Peter]

I don't know if it is online yet, but there is an excellent editorial in today's (actually Monday's) IBD: "A Word of Appreciation For All Obama Has Done"

[henry]

Jeff, that doesn't change the immutable law of football: the Patriots shall be jerks.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Oh, and Romney quit after two rounds against Holyfield. Threw in the towel.

At least that's better than against Obama where he threw in the towel after the first debate.

(i really didn't want to use a zing to write about the fight - it was a great event for a great cause and Romney was just a great great sport about it. but it was just sitting there begging to be said, and i have impulse control problems.)

[Threadkiller]

At this point Brady has a four game suspension, the Pats have a million dollar fine, the two key implicated employees have been jacked by Kraft, and boatbuilder is winning the argument.

I tend to agree, because an illegal alien is president and I have been winning the argument that he isn't really POTUS.

My guess is that NFL millionaire club issue gets adjudicated first.

[Ben]

JUDITH MILLER AND JAMES O'KEEFE DISCUSS ETHICS IN JOURNALISM.

No joke. See the video. Investigatve journalism is alive and well.

[Ben]

'HEH' I should add.

[boris]

"I should add"

As in negative plus negative is positive? Heh!

[Rick Ballard]

Jeff,

I vote for ManTran having won the argument with his comment on the last thread. I'll take his expert opinion in support of boatbuilder's and Some Guy's observations regarding the absence of actual facts as dispositive and pronounce myself ready to MoveOn.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Just a quick reminder, the argument - as it exists on this thread - is being governed by a single rule as explained in the post.

[Captain Hate]

Speaking of the Free Shit Army, the results of the special election for the local extended day care and indoctrination centers were barely in when the chief babysitter announced that the will of the voters be damned, they'd be back in November to do it all over again. With such a finely honed respect for the will of the governed and inability to adjust to situations, is it any wonder that the end product is so substandard?

[boatbuilder]

Jeff--I'll make sure you get some kicks and have a big autograph day. Size 10 or 11?

[Threadkiller]

Well it seems I am winning the argument on the Brady topic.

[boatbuilder]

Not anymore!

[Thomas Collins]

Some Guy, shortly after the penalties were announced, I read an assertion that the Pats took the initiative to suspend Jastremski and McNally. There was no backup for the assertion, and I have seen nothing since then.

By the way, on the noncooperation angle: A day or so after the controversy began, ESPN published a now thoroughly discredited article claiming that Brady's balls were in the realm of 20 percent deflated. Was that a lie leaked from the NFL? If not, why didn't the NFL, which had access to the actual data, correct ESPN? Is Goodell going to make his cellphone, and the cellphone of other NFL personnel, available to resolve this? I know, rhetorical question.

[Dublindave]

Top ISIS commander killed in Syria on President Obama's orders.

Meanwhile on the campaign trail....Jeb Bush still debating whether or not he's a fan of the worst foreign policy disaster in U.S history.

Republicans have long since held that President George W.Bush was one of the greatest Conservative intellectuals of his time,so it's hard for Jeb to live up to his brother mental prowess.

[Rick Ballard]

TC,

When Brady uttered "Will no one relieve the pressure on my balls?", the die was cast and his guilt established.

[boatbuilder]

TC--since speculation is the rule of the day, I am fairly confident that there are all sorts of texts among the NFL guys along the lines of "We finally got the bastards!"

The reality, using the Wells report assumptions, is that the amount of alleged deflation at issue is precisely the amount of the difference in the calibration of the two gauges.
It's also a very, very small amount--the amount of the variance in measurements of the same balls using the same gauges, in fact.
If you use common sense (and take Anderson at his word) there is no mystery here.

Someguy is actually winning arguments. I am persistent but I don't stand a chance against TK using Jeff's rule.

[Thomas Collins]

Rick, that put a smile on my face. By the way, I think you have in a pithy manner described Brady's role in this. Brady, I suspect, never said deflate below 12.5. But he kept complaining. I think the texts support the view that Brady put relentless pressure on Jastremski and McNally. Brady does interviews every week on sports talk radio. It's interesting how he keeps trying to control, most of the time successfully, his in your face under the surface fury. I suspect the fury comes out on the underlings. Now, Brady is certainly not the first top banana to be an a-hole. But I think that's an aspect of Law and Order-Special PSI Unit that has been underemphasized.

[Miss Marple]

A cogent remark on the Clinton income, broken down in numbers the math-challenged can understand:

yourchampion ‏@JCBarraza2 5m5 minutes ago

@EdMorrissey worth spreading - $25 million from 1/1/14 to 4/30/15 comes out to $51,000 a day - abt what avg family makes a year.

[Thomas Collins]

Boatbuilder, even if a factfinder concluded that it was not more probable than not that the balls were below 12.5, an appellate court would, I don't think, given the deference appellate courts give to lower court findings of fact, overturn a finding that McNally tampered with the balls at Brady's behest. Thus, an appellate court would uphold a suspension for Brady. An appellate court would also, under the facts we know, uphold at least a one year without pay suspension fir Goodell.

[daddy]

Daddy, you forgot Extraneus and me in your lineup(s) ; )

Posted by: glasater

Glas,

I was holding you and Ext and Appalled and Michael(Pat-4), and many others of course, for the skins-shirts Beach Volleyball roster on St Jane's island. I had no idea you was a Rugby fanatic:)

[Miss Marple]

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/05/16/smartest-guy-ever-to-become-president-blows-it-again/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Threadkiller]

Spell me some speculation.

Is it true that the Pat's, in protest to the Wells Report, suggested that they had knowledge that the Jaguar's had seen the Colt's ballboys hidding deflation needles up their sleeves?

[Threadkiller]

I appreciate the vote of confidence, boatbuilder.
I predict the win will go to cathyf though.

She possesses a unique set of skills as to the timing of a thread ending.

[Rick Ballard]

TC,

All that remains is to correctly place Brady on a spectrum between Alcibiades entering seven teams in the Olympics to assure his possession of the laurels and Gaylord Perry's slippery entrance into the Hall of Fame.

The circenses never change.

[Miss Marple]

This is a great commercial. It tells me a couple of things:

1. There is a deep memory of the Soviets and freedom is still a good theme in advertising.
2. Sell McDonald's stock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuap4wIGSLg

[Jack is Lightnings!]

When Brady uttered "Will no one relieve the pressure on my balls?", the die was cast and his guilt established.

RickB,

For some reason when I read that, Charles Colson's famous sign behind his desk in the WH came to mind: "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow".

[Jeff Dobbs]

TK:
I predict the win will go to cathyf though.

But . . . it has to be on the subject to qualify under the rules.

[boatbuilder]

" But he kept complaining. I think the texts support the view that Brady put relentless pressure on Jastremski and McNally"

As supported by the absence of a single text before or after October referring in any way to any concerns about any such "relentless pressure?"

[Miss Marple]

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/bill-and-hillary-clinton-made-roughly-25-million-in-speeches-since-2014-118009.html

Includes full list of appearances and fees for both Bill and Hillary and groups they spoke to.

[boatbuilder]

TC--What "lower court findings of fact" are you talking about?

All that has happened so far is that the "investigator" hired by the "employer" issued a report on which the employer based the suspension of the employee.

[Threadkiller]

I understand that, Jeff.

She is a clever gal.